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post #24631 of 31730 Old 04-11-2012, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayrton View Post

I did. Worked great. I upgraded a 590 to a 690. Loved it!

I feel like I may be in the minority here, but I have a C3, which is the middle sig center, but a large speaker in it's own right and I have no desire to upgrade to the larger C5. Is there that big of a difference with the largest centers? I suppose if you already have your C3 / CC590 placed on top of a stand with the TV mounted, placing a larger one there isn't much of an issue. I have my crossover set to 60 in movie mode and I haven't really noticed it struggling to play anything. Some movies do not have very good center dialog -- batman dark knight is a big one that comes to mind.
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post #24632 of 31730 Old 04-12-2012, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

I feel like I may be in the minority here, but I have a C3, which is the middle sig center, but a large speaker in it's own right and I have no desire to upgrade to the larger C5. Is there that big of a difference with the largest centers? I suppose if you already have your C3 / CC590 placed on top of a stand with the TV mounted, placing a larger one there isn't much of an issue. I have my crossover set to 60 in movie mode and I haven't really noticed it struggling to play anything. Some movies do not have very good center dialog -- batman dark knight is a big one that comes to mind.

Only buys you a little less compressed AQ at high volume levels, along with slightly more efficiency, technically the C3 is more then sufficient at normal playback levels. The bigger center might also help in a very large room where the speakers are separated further apart. I have the cc-590 v.5 which I got because Paradigm rep said was more accurate then the cc-690, and obviously don't need the huge center, or have the space for it. I have studio 100's v.5 for L+R.

I also have not found any movies yet where the mid-size center struggles. The center I've found is not always used for dialog, sometimes a film will use the center more for reverb between a L+R. As you probably gather by my signature I test a lot of different media with my system.

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post #24633 of 31730 Old 04-12-2012, 01:38 AM
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I have my L and R channels pretty far apart. It's true if your mains are out out far, you need a larger center to pull everything back, If you are listening at extreme levels in a large room, th 690 makes up for it. Where the 690 truly shines is in multi channels music playback.
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post #24634 of 31730 Old 04-12-2012, 05:26 AM
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I upgraded from a 590 to a C3 recently. Neither of these have displayed any signs of struggling or constrained the sound quality in any way. They are great centre channels.
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post #24635 of 31730 Old 04-12-2012, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gchuva View Post

I have a Paradigm Signature HT system (v3). Some studio adp 590 surrounds (v5) are now available in my location. Would those be a good purchase to move from 7.2 to 9.2?

Depends on which channels you intend to use them for.
As rear surrounds they would be okay since it's mostly ambient or steering material.
But as "wides" or "heights" they might be too diffusive to properly convey the intended effect of those channels.
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post #24636 of 31730 Old 04-12-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

I feel like I may be in the minority here, but I have a C3, which is the middle sig center, but a large speaker in it's own right and I have no desire to upgrade to the larger C5. Is there that big of a difference with the largest centers?

That depends, as I've stated many times here, there's no "one size fits all" answer.

There's three main things to consider in center selection, the first is listening distance, second is room size and third is use of a sub or subs. All relate to your listening habits, i.e. how loud you want to play your material.

As for vocal clarity, as long as a cc can cleanly reach the SPL you need at the listening postion, there's no reason for size to be the biggest concern on its' own. The male voice bottoms out at 100hz, and there might be some resonance into the 80's. (and that might explain why it's THX's favorite x-over.) It's not a tough task for todays' speakers to handle given how clean their FR responses are.

Where things get muddied is the rest of the CC material that the media steers there. In movies the CC does a lot of heavy lifting compared to music, it's actually the predominant channel, so that's where a sub can make a difference, as will the other things I mentioned above in determining what size is best.
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post #24637 of 31730 Old 04-12-2012, 09:41 AM
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I've been a paradigm owner for 18 years and recently upgraded to a 5.0 set in the studio line(60a, cc590, and adp590) and couldn't be happier. I've thanked the wife many times for my Christmas present! Anyway, the system calibrated fine except the center channel. I had to bump it up 10 db to match the volume of the other speakers. I thought it was odd but started testing and listening to movies anyway. Immediately I noticed the center didn't sound right. Called the dealer the next day, and even though he seemingly didn't believe me that something might be wrong with my center, he let me swap it out. The new one calibrated with 1 db bump and when I tested it sounded clear and articulate, nothing odd or off.

I just wanted to relay my experience with my cc590 and that even if a speaker is brand new anything is possible.

I like what I have, but I am curious about the cc690 to really see if it's better than the 590.
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post #24638 of 31730 Old 04-12-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

I feel like I may be in the minority here, but I have a C3, which is the middle sig center, but a large speaker in it's own right and I have no desire to upgrade to the larger C5. Is there that big of a difference with the largest centers? I suppose if you already have your C3 / CC590 placed on top of a stand with the TV mounted, placing a larger one there isn't much of an issue. I have my crossover set to 60 in movie mode and I haven't really noticed it struggling to play anything. Some movies do not have very good center dialog -- batman dark knight is a big one that comes to mind.

I had a 690 v5 with 100s v3 where I feel the Driver Component better matches. (YOMV)

When I bought the Sigs, I got the C5 for the same reason.

Have my gear in a Salamander Designs cabinet, which is very flexible for component mounting.

I'm quite sure that the C3 will do the job as well.

Nice Stuff!
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post #24639 of 31730 Old 04-12-2012, 10:31 PM
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FWIW, my 2 cents...

What I finally found with the CC-690 was more natural sounding dialog/voices. Every other center I tried was just too bright and 'pointy'. I could hear and understand everything fine with the others but they were just too "in my face". I think the extra drivers in the 690 and similar center channel speakers help smooth out the range with more accuracy providing a more natural sound.

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post #24640 of 31730 Old 04-13-2012, 03:27 AM
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I appreciate the feedback. The next question is where to put such a monster center. It certainly won't fit in my current rig, so I would need to change some things. I see a credenza advertised on this site that's designed for a big center, but it's a little more $$ than I'm ready to spend on something like that, because when I'm done with this TV, I'd like to adventure into projection. My TV is a Samsung HL67A750. I'm sure it's been discussed here before, so I apologize for the repeat. Is anyone using a shelf above the TV?
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post #24641 of 31730 Old 04-13-2012, 08:38 AM
 
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I am using a shelf above the TV. I bought two short shelf wall supports and bolted them to the TV Mount holes on the back of the TV. I then used two of the triangle brackets and a shelf board. I put my speaker at the front of the shelf (towards the front of the TV). Works great.

Here is a picture:

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post #24642 of 31730 Old 04-13-2012, 08:49 AM
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Hey fellas.....
SO I was talking to a Martin Logan rep today and he said Paradigm is a sister company....
I am having 0 luck finding some speaker stands for my Martin Logan 4's.

The kicker is I need them to be adjustable to 42" due to my couch. I cant mount them the way the basement is.....


Any help would be great !!
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post #24643 of 31730 Old 04-13-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishniknork View Post

FWIW, my 2 cents...

What I finally found with the CC-690 was more natural sounding dialog/voices. Every other center I tried was just too bright and 'pointy'. I could hear and understand everything fine with the others but they were just too "in my face". I think the extra drivers in the 690 and similar center channel speakers help smooth out the range with more accuracy providing a more natural sound.

That's brings a good question, as I mentioned earlier Paradigm rep said the cc-590 is more accurate then cc-690 in frequency response. I don't think anyone has actually adequately compared them in any magazine review sufficiently. The cc-690 still is only a 3-way design rather then a 4 way (probably to maintain efficiency), yet Paradigm has included two more 7" S-PAL bass/midrange drivers, in addition to the same two 7 ̋polypropylene bass drivers, 4-1/2 ̋ S-PAL midrange driver, and 1 ̋ G-PAL tweeter.

Compared to other centers it is a bit unusual, not similar, as only Paradigm seems to specialize in speaker arrays of this type for a impressively large center.

In your room/environment the added mid-bass/lower midrange probably negates the midrange/tweeter output, along with the bigger form factor of the ported frame and resulting low bass extension. But running Audyssey MulitEQ XT or equivalent could also compensate for the centers output response against room acoustics which made a hell of a difference for my instance.

The equalization tweaks that Paradigm did with the v.5 update vs the earlier v.4 are interesting as the 590/690 center speakers changed frequency response as well as efficiency. See this earlier v.4 series pdf.

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post #24644 of 31730 Old 04-13-2012, 11:19 AM
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If the 590 is more accurate, Paradigm should charge more and call it the 790.

Thanks for the Oppo beta work. Great product/people!

Nice Stuff!
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post #24645 of 31730 Old 04-13-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayrton View Post

If the 590 is more accurate, Paradigm should charge more and call it the 790.

Thanks for the Oppo beta work. Great product/people!

Knowing Paradigm it would be even larger center with three or four woofers with that ID.

Thanks for the feedback!

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post #24646 of 31730 Old 04-13-2012, 01:19 PM
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Well if you look at the difference between the 690 and 590, then compare the output of the 100 and 60, then look back at the 20s and 10, you will notice why the 690 has the extra drivers. I spent a lot of time comparing the 590 to the 690 while listening to th floorstanders and bookshelves. Since the floorstanders have so much more punch, the 690 matches them, therefore it's not so forward sounding or bright. It matches the flow of the L and R channel.

The 20s are nice speakers and when used with the 590, it seems like a seamless match. I'm sure if paradigm was able to cut the size down of the 690, more people would own them. It weighs a lot and has a huge footprint. I was taken back by it the first time i saw it and thought it was to large myself.
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post #24647 of 31730 Old 04-13-2012, 03:47 PM
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Surround question:

I have the Sig 8's and C5 center channel. Going 5.1. Will the SA15 be a good choice for surrounds? Don't have space to hang the ADP3 so have to use ceiling speakers.
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post #24648 of 31730 Old 04-13-2012, 07:23 PM
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In case your wanting to have ADP-590's on a fairly stable stand and need something different then the Paradigm recommended S-26 ($150/pr) and J-29 ($450/pr), I found the Sanus steel series SF34 to offer a 6" W by 6 1/2" L plate when turned sidewise works with the ADP-590 well enough stability and height wise. (slightly above typical seating height)

Still like any speaker would have to be somewhat secured to stand (double sided tape) for kids and pets.

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post #24649 of 31730 Old 04-13-2012, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

That's brings a good question, as I mentioned earlier Paradigm rep said the cc-590 is more accurate then cc-690 in frequency response. I don't think anyone has actually adequately compared them in any magazine review sufficiently. The cc-690 still is only a 3-way design rather then a 4 way (probably to maintain efficiency), yet Paradigm has included two more 7" S-PAL bass/midrange drivers, in addition to the same two 7 ̋polypropylene bass drivers, 4-1/2 ̋ S-PAL midrange driver, and 1 ̋ G-PAL tweeter.

Compared to other centers it is a bit unusual, not similar, as only Paradigm seems to specialize in speaker arrays of this type for a impressively large center.

In your room/environment the added mid-bass/lower midrange probably negates the midrange/tweeter output, along with the bigger form factor of the ported frame and resulting low bass extension. But running Audyssey MulitEQ XT or equivalent could also compensate for the centers output response against room acoustics which made a hell of a difference for my instance.

The equalization tweaks that Paradigm did with the v.5 update vs the earlier v.4 are interesting as the 590/690 center speakers changed frequency response as well as efficiency. See this earlier v.4 series pdf.

He-he, could it be that in my case LESS accuracy is a good thing? ;-)

Really though, I think what I meant by 'accuracy' was the more natural sound of voices I perceive the CC-690 to produce than other centers I've tried or heard. I believe those 2 extra 7" bass/midrange drivers add something that was lacking in the vocal range. Even though it is still a 3-way setup the extra drivers spread the sound over a larger area and cross the frequencies over more drivers. I believe you are correct that those extra mid-bass/lower midrange drivers negate the smaller mids and tweeter somewhat but not to a large extent.

I have a Pioneer SC-25 receiver and have run it's room correction program (MCACC) with every center I've tried. Until the CC-690 not even manually tweaking the equalization settings for the center channel in the MCACC settings satisfied me though. I could get them to sound better but not as good as the 690 does all by itself.

Whatever the case or reason I am very pleased with the way the CC-690 reproduces voices. As a plus, it doesn't hurt the rest of the audio range either.

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post #24650 of 31730 Old 04-14-2012, 04:00 PM
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I am looking for a TV stand that has a second or center shelf that would allow me to place my 570v3 center channel speaker on. I have looked at several tv stands, but second shelf or center channel speaker area has been to small. Does anyone have any recommendations?
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post #24651 of 31730 Old 04-14-2012, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by k elone View Post

I am looking for a TV stand that has a second or center shelf that would allow me to place my 570v3 center channel speaker on. I have looked at several tv stands, but second shelf or center channel speaker area has been to small. Does anyone have any recommendations?

That's where the furniture becomes expensive. I looked at a stand to fit my 690 below and it was like $1599. Infact they run ads here on AVS.
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post #24652 of 31730 Old 04-14-2012, 05:48 PM
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I am thinking of moving my Mini Monitor v6 surrounds to zone 2 L/R in my living room and replacing them with Micro Monitor v6 for surrounds. I can get a pair NIB for $200. They guy at the store said the difference between the Mini/Atom and the Micro is that they have the same tweeter but the Micro has a driver from the Cinema line. I'm afraid they won't blend quite as well with my Monitor 9s/CC-290. Anyone have any experience with the Micros or give me some advice? I know the surrounds aren't nearly as important as the front soundstage but I do watch quite a bit of concert discs in surround. For what it's worth, the Micros did sound pretty good on their own from the demo I heard in the store.

Thanks.

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post #24653 of 31730 Old 04-14-2012, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

That's where the furniture becomes expensive. I looked at a stand to fit my 690 below and it was like $1599. Infact they run ads here on AVS.

What did you chose?
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post #24654 of 31730 Old 04-14-2012, 10:00 PM
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That's where the furniture becomes expensive. I looked at a stand to fit my 690 below and it was like $1599. Infact they run ads here on AVS.

I'm guessing you're referring to the Standout Designs stands? Excellent stands, but wow, pricey.

But they're one of the very few companies that actually make stands with audio in mind, and support larger center channels. So I made my own, copying their design. A lot of work, but I'm out of pocket roughly $300 in materials, which is far more reasonable for a TV stand, IMO.

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post #24655 of 31730 Old 04-14-2012, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

I'm guessing you're referring to the Standout Designs stands? Excellent stands, but wow, pricey.

But they're one of the very few companies that actually make stands with audio in mind, and support larger center channels. So I made my own, copying their design. A lot of work, but I'm out of pocket roughly $300 in materials, which is far more reasonable for a TV stand, IMO.


I wish I had your skills. It looks nice.
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post #24656 of 31730 Old 04-14-2012, 11:38 PM
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Yeah that turned out awesome. Check out the Khorns you got there too

I ended up getting a dual pole stand for the center for now. I'm waiting for my tax returns so I can get a nice av stand. I have a vertical rack I'm tired of. It's just difficult to find a nice, reasonably priced 72"+ inch av stand its enough storage for my equipment.
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post #24657 of 31730 Old 04-15-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
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I wish I had your skills. It looks nice.

Thanks! I'm thrilled with it. First time I've tackled something quite like this. Having a friend with a table saw was key, otherwise it was a lot of thinking and basic math, then just drills, an orbital hand sander. Not as complicated as you might fear.

Quote:
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Yeah that turned out awesome. Check out the Khorns you got there too

I ended up getting a dual pole stand for the center for now. I'm waiting for my tax returns so I can get a nice av stand. I have a vertical rack I'm tired of. It's just difficult to find a nice, reasonably priced 72"+ inch av stand its enough storage for my equipment.

No kidding. I spent WEEKS trawling the net, trying to find a nice 72" stand that was under $800. I only found a few that were even under $1k, and I wasn't very happy with any of them. I kept trying to figure out if there was ANY way to get one of those Standout Designs stands, since it was just simply perfect. Then the idea came to take a stab at just making one out of nice wood. Theirs is solid hardwood and mine is A1-grade furniture grade red oak plywood (with solid strips on the edges to hide the ply), after that it was just some spare time and effort. The staining was the hardest part, frankly.

I do love the look of the Klipsch speakers in this room. I hope to switch to Paradigms in this main room someday, but meanwhile, these look (and sound) great, and I'm really happy with the Paradigm SE and ADP190 setup I have in my bedroom system. (especially since Paradigms for the living room would probably need to be $$$$ Studio 60s or 100s to look as nice as these Klipsch speakers, as I'm just not a big fan of the aesthetics of the Monitors, and the SEs aren't quite beefy enough to fill the open space in this larger room that's wide open on two sides to other rooms).
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post #24658 of 31730 Old 04-15-2012, 09:55 AM
 
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Kalani, very nice system! What model Plasma are you using? I can't quite make out the model in the pic.
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post #24659 of 31730 Old 04-15-2012, 10:37 AM
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I had Khorns before and I really liked them. I love the copper color on the drivers too. You did very well making that stand. I'm not talented with wood work, but then Again, I've never really tried or invested in the equipment. May be something I'll look into now. Supposedly the new studio line is coming out shortly, so you may be able to find a nice deal for the V5's from a local dealer.
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post #24660 of 31730 Old 04-15-2012, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

Kalani, very nice system! What model Plasma are you using? I can't quite make out the model in the pic.

Thanks! That's the Panasonic 65ST30.

I need to move the articulating wall mount a few inches higher, but I'll get to it when I get to it. For normal watching of TV and such, we watch everything as you see it in the photo. For "event" movies (and anything in 3D), I pull the mount forward, bringing the TV to just barely in front of the TV stand, which brings the picture 2' or so closer to the viewing area and makes the experience much more immersive. VERY pleased with how everything is turning out.
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