New NHT Classic line to replace Super Audio - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by NHT4LIFE View Post

....Your acting like a 12 year old who can't have his candy.....Seems like the only true statement in your last couple of posts.But when I finally get my candy Ill hopefully be smiling from ear to ear.

LOL

Hope your 3's are everything you wanted them to be, and more! I dont know how you waited so long...Im actually going through a similar situation with my replacement Rythmik Audio driver...At least i'll be getting something by next week for sure after waiting a month for a replacement.

Only time will tell what the future holds...so until then JAM LIKE THERES NO TOMORROW!
-Rob

My Natalie P project
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post #632 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 10:31 AM
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Keep your ears open for a big splash boys. If there is no promising news on the horizon by Tuesday, I'm jumping ship. I ordered my Classic Threes & 3C in early October. I've waited more than 6 months. Probably five months too long. I see the bitterness toward NHT growing each day with the new posts. I am now questioning why would I want to support a company like this. The fact that NHT as made no attempt to inform their most devoted customers, leaves me scratching my head. What's even more astonishing to me is that we accept this. I have owned a small business for many years and if there is one thing I have learned...It is much easier to keep a good customer than to find a new one. I am ready to move on and not look back.
I have no bitterness toward NHT. They have taught me a valuable lesson on how NOT to treat my customers.
I thank you all for the posts. It's the only thing that kept me hanging on this long.
Good luck to all those who hang in there, and hats off to all who decide enough is enough.

It has definitely been quite a ride.
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post #633 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wratman View Post

Keep your ears open for a big splash boys. If there is no promising news on the horizon by Tuesday, I'm jumping ship. I ordered my Classic Threes & 3C in early October. I've waited more than 6 months. Probably five months too long. I see the bitterness toward NHT growing each day with the new posts. I am now questioning why would I want to support a company like this. The fact that NHT as made no attempt to inform their most devoted customers, leaves me scratching my head. What's even more astonishing to me is that we accept this. I have owned a small business for many years and if there is one thing I have learned...It is much easier to keep a good customer than to find a new one. I am ready to move on and not look back.
I have no bitterness toward NHT. They have taught me a valuable lesson on how NOT to treat my customers.
I thank you all for the posts. It's the only thing that kept me hanging on this long.
Good luck to all those who hang in there, and hats off to all who decide enough is enough.

It has definitely been quite a ride.

Like you I have bailed. Our local NHT dealer has never made ANY promises of their delivery other than to say they are still in the development stages. He has not seen or heard any of the classic 3's. I was set to make a big purchase of the NHT speakers but I saw the writing on the wall months ago.

In this forum you have Alimentall making these outrages claims of their arrival and I am hearing a completely different story from our local NHT dealer. The bottom line is the smoke is going to continue to billow from Alimentall smoke stack while keeping everyone on the ropes with hope. I sure hope Alimentall has learned a valuable lesson in working with NHT as he has turned many people against NHT. I can't even imagine his local cliental in New Mexico having to deal with the heartache of all the promises.
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post #634 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 12:54 PM
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In this forum you have Alimentall making these outrages claims of their arrival and I am hearing a completely different story from our local NHT dealer.

Hey, I'm just telling people what I hear, it's not like I'm making stuff up *nor* am I "promising" anything. It sounds to me like *your* dealer was lying to you because, while it may have shown more discretion, he clearly wasn't telling you all he knew, probably to have you buy something in stock. Obviously, if I knew in advance that NHT was going to blow their target date so badly, I'd have said "here's what they say, but it's likely more like mid spring.
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I sure hope Alimentall has learned a valuable lesson in working with NHT as he has turned many people against NHT.

Actually, I'm trying to make sure that it is *NHT* that learns the valuable lesson and doesn't announce a delivery date until product is in production.
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I can't even imagine his local cliental in New Mexico having to deal with the heartache of all the promises.

The only other real option is to buy B&Ws, so they hang in there Besides, very few of my customers are "suffering" with their existing system and if they are, it's not because of me.

John
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post #635 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 01:22 PM
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Alimentall hasnt lost me nor will he in the future.My "local(100 miles away) dealer" said when I went to audition the Twos and M6's that he has "in stock" a 3C but wasnt willing to open it and let me hear it.And to top it off,I never told him I preordered my Threes,so he said he cant wait to hook up my Threes in his demo room "after" I purchase them.Gee...Thanks But No Thanks.What nerve to not hook up a 3c but wanting to hook my speakers up for his own enjoyment.John had been very willing to work out other options with me and thats what counts the most.In the end making sure A.The customer gets what they want and B.If for some reason that falls through the customer has another avenue to still be happy if they happen to like another product.He has been very honest and has helped me with many questions so Ill stick by him,and not my "local dealer".

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post #636 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Hey, I'm just telling people what I hear, it's not like I'm making stuff up *nor* am I "promising" anything. It sounds to me like *your* dealer was lying to you because, while it may have shown more discretion, he clearly wasn't telling you all he knew, probably to have you buy something in stock. Obviously, if I knew in advance that NHT was going to blow their target date so badly, I'd have said "here's what they say, but it's likely more like mid spring.

But after so many disappointments didn't you think for a moment you would have been better of to say, "Ok NHT is telling me the speakers will arrive Monday, but I am going to sit on this information". Seem to me that not saying a damn thing you would be better off. Then comes Tuesday afternoon and no UPS truck and your the only one disappoint not those that are counting on you. This play by play has no doubt run off buyers.

At no time has the local dealer of NHT's have ever tried to sell me anything else, in fact its me that has to asked to listen this particular speaker with this particular amp. No high pressure sales tactics going on here.

Personally I think your wrong in your approach method. You would have been better off to say, "I am expecting a shipment of 3's but until they arrive at my doorstep I can not comment on them nor will I take any deposits But the continued stringing along potential buyers with mis due date after due date after due date has hurt your credibility to make good on this product. Maybe you should have taken the approach of NHT and not say a damn thing.
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post #637 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 02:31 PM
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I don't disagree with that. I'm just walking a fine line now between drying to dampen the vitriol and giving any more false hope. I wouldn't divulge anything at this point except with the usual warnings that it may not be correct and with the hopefully more useful news that I got it from a source that, so far, hasn't made me look bad.

John
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post #638 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by coues View Post

I sure hope Alimentall has learned a valuable lesson in working with NHT as he has turned many people against NHT. I can’t even imagine his local cliental in New Mexico having to deal with the heartache of all the promises.

This is a perfect example of just how myopic one can get from reading this Forum. The fact is, most of the rest of the outside world is blissfully ignorant of the goings on with NHT's Classic line rollout, as has been reported here. The average person will likely continue being unaware of the many delays. For them, the product will be on time, when they walk in to an A/V retailer and audition the new speakers, or when they read about them in one of the A/V rags. With the production delays reported by other speaker manufacturers (Swan and AV123 come to mind) and all the various trials and tribulations (read about in online forums) that are attributed solely to the challanges of getting new products to market from Chinese factories, I can't say I'm all that surpised to see NHT experiencing similar production delays.

While the Classics are important to NHT as replacement for the Super Audio line, they do not represent the entirety of NHT's offerings. They are not even the 'flagship' products for the company. They are simply NHT's newest 'value priced' entry-level speaker offering. Meanwhile, NHT has its cutting edge digital Xd amp/processor/speaker system product in stores now, and production continues for the still popular, and currently Stereophile Class A rated Evolution T6/M6 analogue speakers. And while John may have let his own excitement about the new Classic speakers put him in the awkward position of creating interest in a product that can not yet be had, it remains that NHT has several other very compelling speaker offerings that you can take home today.
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post #639 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 03:34 PM
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zaracsan....Well said my friend.

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post #640 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Hey, I'm just telling people what I hear, it's not like I'm making stuff up *nor* am I "promising" anything. It sounds to me like *your* dealer was lying to you because, while it may have shown more discretion, he clearly wasn't telling you all he knew, probably to have you buy something in stock. Obviously, if I knew in advance that NHT was going to blow their target date so badly, I'd have said "here's what they say, but it's likely more like mid spring.

No good deed goes unpunished.
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post #641 of 10856 Old 04-15-2006, 09:27 PM
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zaracsan....Well said my friend.

I couldn't agree more.
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post #642 of 10856 Old 04-16-2006, 06:09 AM
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I tire of this persistent trashing of John. He made the cardinal sin of being enthusiastic in print about a speaker line that potentially could represent great performance and value. Who has he hurt by this? Whose money does he refuse to refund due to the numerous delays? NO ONE! If you want to buy something else, there are no shortages of options. As Zaracsan said, this thread is a tempest in a teapot since the vast majority of potential Classic buyers will find out about the line when they see it at their local dealers, where the real reckoning will occur.
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post #643 of 10856 Old 04-16-2006, 06:28 AM
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HAPPY EASTER NHT,Alimentall,zaracsan,coues,Mad Chemist,Shadow 8,wratman,Exocer,tweeterex and all others on this post !!! Unfortunately, I shot the Easter Bunny since he didnt bring me Classic Threes.I only used rocksalt so that he could still hobble to all your houses and make your childrens day a happy one.May all of you find peace in your hearts and minds and enjoy the ones you love the most.I hope we can all have nice things to say even if its just for today.Have a wonderful day everyone !!!

Charlie Beller

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post #644 of 10856 Old 04-16-2006, 07:45 AM
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He made the cardinal sin of being enthusiastic in print about a speaker line that potentially could represent great performance and value. Who has he hurt by this? Whose money does he refuse to refund due to the numerous delays? NO ONE! If you want to buy something else, there are no shortages of options

There are no shortage of dealers and manufacturers that attempt to create enthusiasm and delay certain customers from pursueing other options as they promise the coming of a "catagory buster", it happens here all the time with electronics. Many times it happens because people have just gotten wind of a "project" and get themselves all excited about the "new feature" it has, many times the manufacturer tries NOT to share info or talk about the project. However, when the company and it's dealers play to this in forums like this one, it is a bit difficult to see it as "harmless". I am not saying that this is the case in this situation, there are many egregious examples of this from other companies. True the average customer will never know of the situation, it seems that it is the hobbyists here that have been treated differantly. If this is your target marketing demographic, you would be well advised to treat them better.

I think it would be generally more useful if everyone new to these forums is reminded that they are constantly being marketed to and pitched by people who post their affiliations and many others who do not. This is all part of marketing and advertising and you, the consumer, are the targets.
Noth...
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post #645 of 10856 Old 04-16-2006, 07:49 AM
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HAPPY EASTER...
Charlie Beller

Thanks Charlie for your thoughtful message, and may I extend my wishes to you and the family for a wonderful Easter. Don't eat too much Easter candy!
Lee Wratten
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post #646 of 10856 Old 04-16-2006, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by wratman View Post

Don't eat too much Easter candy!
Lee Wratten

Haaa NEVER !!!

I have too many kids to eat it up,they take care of that for me !!!

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post #647 of 10856 Old 04-16-2006, 09:13 AM
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There are no shortage of dealers and manufacturers that attempt to create enthusiasm and delay certain customers from pursueing other options as they promise the coming of a "catagory buster", it happens here all the time with electronics.

Yes but I assure you it isn't the case (Happy Easter). NHT didn't intend to be late or announce way ahead of availability. Note that the four models not containing the dome array pretty much arrived on time.
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Many times it happens because people have just gotten wind of a "project" and get themselves all excited about the "new feature" it has, many times the manufacturer tries NOT to share info or talk about the project.

No one was more annoyed by the whole Acurus Act3 announcement than I was. It did nothing but cost me B&K sales for about 6-9 months before people gave up on the promise of a $1500 DTS-equipped processor.
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However, when the company and it's dealers play to this in forums like this one, it is a bit difficult to see it as "harmless".

Any "harm" was unintentional. However, bear in mind that this stuff *is* luxury gear, not air or water. Besides, it wasn't my thread, I just answered questions that no one else was answering.
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I am not saying that this is the case in this situation, there are many egregious examples of this from other companies. True the average customer will never know of the situation, it seems that it is the hobbyists here that have been treated differantly. If this is your target marketing demographic, you would be well advised to treat them better.

Let's not forget that hobbyists are very pro-active in finding out information and can be very demanding about "what, when, how" from the moment any new product has been uncovered, so if you don't answer questions and ignore them, then that isn't considered to be good form either.

However, as I've mentioned, I'm pushing very hard for NHT to not formally announce *any* new products until it's actually in production. It's one thing to have general conversations with dealers about what a company *should* build, but once it's in development and essentially finalized, it makes sense to say nothing until it's out.

Don't forget, it's hard for me to sell more expensive product as well right now. And the predecessors to the Three, Four, 3C, iW4, as well as Evolution T5 and T6 towers, have all been discontinued, so not only do I have a product vacuum, I actually have difficulty selling other current product because everyone wants to hear Threes and/or Fours before making any decisions. I don't make money talking about product, but right now, Classic is all I about which I can talk My sales went way down because of the lack of product and is only up over the last few months because of other factors such as custom install, commercial sales, projection sales, etc. So, I'm not exactly on the winning end of all of this. I'm into "harm reduction" at this point.

John
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post #648 of 10856 Old 04-16-2006, 09:25 AM
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Well chastised, well explained, time to stop the wailing and end this thread. I'd suggest beginning a new one once the product arrives. Til then, chill.
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post #649 of 10856 Old 04-16-2006, 09:29 AM
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I've lurked along in this thread (I think I posted early on somewhere) and have read the "John bashing" that's been going on...and figured I needed to say something. Just wanted to let you know that I was part of John's Classic Two tour and I subsequently purchased that pair from John. I also later purchased another single Two for use as a cc. John has been GREAT to deal with! He responded to all my emails and calls in a prompt, courteous, and friendly manner. I had absolutely no problems dealing with him, and he always did what he said he'd do. As we all know, he's NHT's greatest cheerleader...and perhaps he's too overzealous for some. But I just wanted to add my .02 that John is a straight shooter as far as I'm concerned.
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post #650 of 10856 Old 04-16-2006, 11:03 AM
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Good explaination John. I didn't mean to be contrary, but I always try to refer to unreleased product as VAPORWARE until it's in my warehouse. A few of my customers get pushy wanting answers to questions brought about by info gleened here or elsewhere but I tell them that I don't deal in dreams, false hope , and promises I can't keep. The 1080p Pioneer Elite plasmas are already creating a buzz and we keep hearing "JULY" ...do you think I believe we'll see them by July? I know people want to hype their product so consumers will wait and not buy something else, to that I say "can you wait a longer than you think it's going to take? Because it almost assuredly WILL take longer." Look at BD and the PS3, I'm guessing Christmas, but that's not what they're saying now.

I think it would be generally more useful if everyone new to these forums is reminded that they are constantly being marketed to and pitched by people who post their affiliations and many others who do not. This is all part of marketing and advertising and you, the consumer, are the targets.
Noth...
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post #651 of 10856 Old 04-16-2006, 11:19 AM
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No biggie. One of the things I keep stressing to NHT is that any advantage gained by announcing a product before it is ready is offset 10 times by the frustrations felt by dealers and prospective customers. Much as I'm not a big B&W fan, they announced Diamond in mid November, said it would be at dealers by mid January and they did it, all, what, 15 models right on time and in nearly unlimited quantity. That is how it should be done. When you do stuff like that over and over, people buy products as much or more for the company than the quality. And you can even charge more and get it. You can't do a better job than that.

John
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post #652 of 10856 Old 04-17-2006, 02:06 PM
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John,

Am I reading your prior post to mean that the Evolution series has been discontinued? I guessed this would happen, but wasn't aware if this is already the case.
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post #653 of 10856 Old 04-17-2006, 02:18 PM
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No, just the B5/B6 "tower subs" to make the T5/T6. They still make the M5, M6, L5 and U1/U2 subs.

John
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post #654 of 10856 Old 04-17-2006, 03:33 PM
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Hi,

I am on the verge of giving up as well. I saw one post that recommended the Revel Performa F32/M22. Can anyone recommend a dealer that will ship these to me?

Thanks,

winovin
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post #655 of 10856 Old 04-17-2006, 07:48 PM
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Well, now would be a bad time to give up since they were shipping mine today or tomorrow. While I certainly have none to spare any time soon, I'm sure there are dealers who ordered plenty in advance of demand.

John
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post #656 of 10856 Old 04-17-2006, 08:18 PM
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The wait will finally be over soon! According to NHT when I called today, the 3's had finally been received and were shceduled to start being shipped to dealers today late this afternoon. With as good as they sounded at CES in a not so great environment, I can't wait to hear how good they will sound in my theater room!

Owner/Editor
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post #657 of 10856 Old 04-17-2006, 08:29 PM
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Well I noticed on my new sheet that the T6s were not there. Infact the M6 was not there either.

Well I have a T6 system... 2 T6s, 3 M6s, 1X1 and 2 amps. Guess I will need to move them off.

Anyone got a pair of 3.3s and 2.9s they want to trade? Well I would need an AC-2 as well.. anyone?
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post #658 of 10856 Old 04-18-2006, 05:26 AM
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I hope this in not more overkill...This time will it really be true?

So, if the threes are what we hope and expect, would there be any difference in the various recievers to pair it with? Does NHT speakers normally pair better with one brand over another: Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, NAD....?
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post #659 of 10856 Old 04-18-2006, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

No, just the B5/B6 "tower subs" to make the T5/T6. They still make the M5, M6, L5 and U1/U2 subs.

John do you think the M5 & M6 will get the new drivers in the classic line.
Allen
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post #660 of 10856 Old 04-18-2006, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by el stumbo View Post

So, if the threes are what we hope and expect, would there be any difference in the various recievers to pair it with? Does NHT speakers normally pair better with one brand over another: Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, NAD....?

Well, the Japanese receivers struggle a lot more with NHT than stuff like NAD, Rotel, Arcam. Most of them are so woefully inadequate with current that any kind of really difficult scene in at high volumes can shut them down or make them sound strained and anemic. At lower volumes in smaller rooms though, most can get by.

John
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