New NHT Classic line to replace Super Audio - Page 333 - AVS Forum
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post #9961 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

I'm still trying to decide between NHT and KEF.

Slickman,

This would really be a preference issue. They both sound different, speakers are really the most subjective part of the audio chain. One of my brothers bought both (couple sets of NHT and KEF) and we did to a side-by-side test run. We both ended up liking NHT more. He didn't get rid of the KEFs, they ended up in other rooms while the NHT's were used in their main media room and their master bedroom.

You really need to listen to them somewhere if you can to make the comparison.

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post #9962 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauaidoug View Post

Just discovered this thread after lurking on the official Denon's owner thread. Purchased a Denon's 2112, 2 NHT superzeroes and a SA-w2500 10" Sony sub.
I have a listening room 10'x15' room with carpeting,curtains and stuffed couch. Music 30% Movies 70%

I've been listening to a really bad 10 year old HTIB system that just crapped out. Someone earlier in the thread recommended getting 4 superzeroes and a matching sub and call it a day. Since I have the SZ's I could spend $500 more appx and get 2 SZ and the 8"woofer from Crutchfield's. That is where I purchased the SZ's and the woofer and got them shipped free and it was 5 days. I live on Kauai so the free shipping was a big plus.
OR
I could get 2 Three's and have the SZ's for the rear and muddle along for now with the Sony sub. Spending app. $700. I like this option because it gives me the Threes for my 2.1 music

Questions. Best place and way to buy NHT? Put myself on special lists at NHT? Crutchfield has good prices and free shipping here. How does Crutchfield sell cheaper than NHT? Recomendations for the central speaker down the road?
Ok mahalo ahead of time. Used to Live in Santa Fe, seemed to be a lot of ALB people here.
Oh Yeah, been very happy with my SZ's and want more!

Hi, as Bob mentions, you would need to pick the matching center depending on what you get. Crutchfield does have free shipping. OneCall also does. You would need to check if they will ship free out of the continental US though, not sure about that.

Also, as bob mentions, you already have a sub. You may want to hold off on getting a new one and in the future if funds permit, you can get a sub that can really hit lower with more energy.

My choice, if it were me, would be to go with the Threes and forgo the center for now. they image extremely well and you may not even need a center. They are Much better that the SZ's. Again, dependent on your funding. You can get 2 SZ's and the matching center for cheaper than the Threes and still be just as happy IMO.

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post #9963 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post

I would agree! If at all possible, keep the M's. They are MUCH better speakers and will fill the room. For the center, Sanus makes a stand for center's that have adjustable bolts that will tilt your speaker correctly. Look at my pics, I'm using that stand for my center.

I have a TV stand that all of the A/V equipment goes in, so I'll just place the M5 center channel on that, and wall mount the Plasma so the bottom is about 8" over the top of the tv stand/cabinet.

I agree with you guys, (and my wife also loves the sound of the M5s) and I think we'll accommodate them. Our viewing couch will be right up against the back wall though, so my next decision will be where to relocate my SuperZero XU surrounds - right above the couch behind us (ceiling height), or in the adjacent corner/wall, aimed near the couch.
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post #9964 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 07:02 AM
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Glad your keeping your wife and the M5s!
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post #9965 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post

Glad your keeping your wife and the M5s!

+1, the best option!!!

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post #9966 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post

Hi, as Bob mentions, you would need to pick the matching center depending on what you get. Crutchfield does have free shipping. OneCall also does. You would need to check if they will ship free out of the continental US though, not sure about that.

Also, as bob mentions, you already have a sub. You may want to hold off on getting a new one and in the future if funds permit, you can get a sub that can really hit lower with more energy.

My choice, if it were me, would be to go with the Threes and forgo the center for now. they image extremely well and you may not even need a center. They are Much better that the SZ's. Again, dependent on your funding. You can get 2 SZ's and the matching center for cheaper than the Threes and still be just as happy IMO.

Great thank you. The sub can wait and the Three's will give me the movie and music experience I desire for now without the center. My idea with funding at present is to build a quality system to be happy with for years to come and I think the three's r it for now.
Now, where do I look for the best deal? Are NHT's ever on sale somewhere.? There is nothing here on the island as far as a craigslist - used good speakers etc. Used stereo stuff is usually for cars. Very limited. We do have a Sears,Costco and Walmart.
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post #9967 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 02:36 PM
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Checked onecall, no NHT 3's. Audiophile liquidator had some at a good price. Anyone know about APliquidator? Thought I saw some disparaging remarks concerning that company somewhere on AVS.
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post #9968 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauaidoug View Post

Great thank you. The sub can wait and the Three's will give me the movie and music experience I desire for now without the center. My idea with funding at present is to build a quality system to be happy with for years to come and I think the three's r it for now.
Now, where do I look for the best deal? Are NHT's ever on sale somewhere.? There is nothing here on the island as far as a craigslist - used good speakers etc. Used stereo stuff is usually for cars. Very limited. We do have a Sears,Costco and Walmart.

The Three's were just on sale in Feb everywhere for $299. NHT was running a sale. That is when I picked up 3 of the Threes. Sorry you missed it.

I think you will be happy with the Three's, they image like crazy. I tested 2-threes (Phantom center) and had excellent results.


Bob
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post #9969 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 03:40 PM
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Never mind. Pulled the trigger,shot those bad 3's down direct from NHT, John Johnson, and got them both shipped here for $700. Exactly my budget!!!
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post #9970 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 07:20 PM
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Awesome Kauaigoug!

Keep us posted once you set them up and have time to listen. What speaker stands will you be using?

Ray

 

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post #9971 of 10823 Old 03-15-2012, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post

Awesome Kauaigoug!

Keep us posted once you set them up and have time to listen. What speaker stands will you be using?

Hadn't gotten that far. Any suggestions?
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post #9972 of 10823 Old 03-16-2012, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauaidoug View Post

Hadn't gotten that far. Any suggestions?

Hi,

You just have to keep in mind that the bottom of the Threes (actually all the Classic series monitors) have railings for feet, so the top of the stands have to be large enough to support them. There are a lot out there that can from different sites. What type of furniture do you have in your room that these are going in? Some place them on 'book shelves' and if you do, make sure the front baffle is slightly forward of the front face of the book shelf or what ever furniture you are placing them on, but you will loose some imaging compared to placing them on speaker stands (which is the best option).

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post #9973 of 10823 Old 03-16-2012, 06:39 AM
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Kauaidoug,

NHT's website has stands from Sanus that would work perfectly. If you want cheaper, Audio Advisor has some from Pangea that would work (the width is perfect, but the depth would be slightly short - not an issue if the speaker hangs off a bit on the front and back as the width is the determining factor):

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGLS02

You of course can make your own if you're handy with tools...

Ray

 

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post #9974 of 10823 Old 03-16-2012, 04:57 PM
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I use the twin-pillar Sanus SF-26 stands with my Classic Threes and like them quite a bit.

The top plate is 6" wide x 6.5" deep. The rails/feet on the Threes are 5" wide x 8.25" long. I centered the speakers front to back. The overhang looks fine and works to advantage in that the top plate doesn't interfere too much, visually, with the curved bottom of the speaker. There are some round, black rubber bits with posts included in the box that I used to stabilize the speaker from side to side movement should they get bumped. The top plate has a hole in each corner. I simply pushed them up through the hole from the bottom, then wedged the speaker between them. It's a tight "fit," but with a little give. I'd like to find something with a little bit more integrity, but this works well enough for now.

They're pretty solid as is. I suppose you could fill them with sand or lead shot if needed. The paint on the stands appears semi-gloss black in my room. Not as matte as others I've seen. The base has a gentle curve from front to back which imo works nicely with the curves on the speaker itself. YMMV. There are four plastic feet that screw into the corners of each base. Because of the curve, they are corner specific. Spikes or rubber inserts attach to the bottom of the plastic feet. Note that if you use the rubber inserts instead of the spikes the stand will be one inch shorter than spec'd. Also, there is no internal cable management. There are some plastic tabs that are supposed to attach to the top and bottom of the pillars to thread the wire through, but I just used black cable ties on the rear pillar. They're less bulky and more secure.

Hope this is helpful.

One more thing. I can't express how much I love these Threes. The highs took a little time to mellow out, but now, music I've been listening to for 30+ years has come to life again. I've only had them for a short time, but I'm really excited. A new journey through old forests so to speak.

Thanks to all here for their informative contributions and specific help. Perhaps after I get more time with them I'll be able to offer up some useful observations.

hi-fidelity — why fight it?
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post #9975 of 10823 Old 03-17-2012, 11:59 AM
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Gee, thanks guys. My house is all kind of eclectic ,semi hippie Hawaiiana. Once I get the 3's(can't wait but I guess I have to) I will settle everyone in and think on it. I rent but have a long term situation. I need to mount my 42" Plasma up on the wall , I think, and may decide to have a friend build something around the TV that is also attached to the walls. My place is small but I live alone and don't throw too many wild parties like in the old light up and listen days. Don't need to worry about bumping etc.
Do I want the speakers to sit away from the wall? How far? Thanks again for your helpful posts.
Doug

Also, when I listen to my superzeroes I have noticed at times a funny pressure in my ears that i associate with the treble. I think I read something about this. Is this because they are new ? Do the speakers need breaking in because it is a little concerning.
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post #9976 of 10823 Old 03-17-2012, 04:32 PM
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I had some monster 16 gauge shipped with my sub. Now that I have 2 more speakers coming I'm short on wire.
My question is would it matter if I used a different brand but same gauge of wire in my speaker set up? I just don't have enough for the last of 3 speakers(not counting the sub)
I can run to Sears and get regular ol 16 gauge clear speaker wire and be ready to go when my Three's arrive this Monday.
Is there really a difference in wire as long as it is the same gauge?
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post #9977 of 10823 Old 03-17-2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defmoot View Post

I use the twin-pillar Sanus SF-26 stands with my Classic Threes and like them quite a bit.

The top plate is 6" wide x 6.5" deep. The rails/feet on the Threes are 5" wide x 8.25" long. I centered the speakers front to back. The overhang looks fine and works to advantage in that the top plate doesn't interfere too much, visually, with the curved bottom of the speaker. There are some round, black rubber bits with posts included in the box that I used to stabilize the speaker from side to side movement should they get bumped. The top plate has a hole in each corner. I simply pushed them up through the hole from the bottom, then wedged the speaker between them. It's a tight "fit," but with a little give. I'd like to find something with a little bit more integrity, but this works well enough for now.

They're pretty solid as is. I suppose you could fill them with sand or lead shot if needed. The paint on the stands appears semi-gloss black in my room. Not as matte as others I've seen. The base has a gentle curve from front to back which imo works nicely with the curves on the speaker itself. YMMV. There are four plastic feet that screw into the corners of each base. Because of the curve, they are corner specific. Spikes or rubber inserts attach to the bottom of the plastic feet. Note that if you use the rubber inserts instead of the spikes the stand will be one inch shorter than spec'd. Also, there is no internal cable management. There are some plastic tabs that are supposed to attach to the top and bottom of the pillars to thread the wire through, but I just used black cable ties on the rear pillar. They're less bulky and more secure.

Hope this is helpful.

One more thing. I can't express how much I love these Threes. The highs took a little time to mellow out, but now, music I've been listening to for 30+ years has come to life again. I've only had them for a short time, but I'm really excited. A new journey through old forests so to speak.

Thanks to all here for their informative contributions and specific help. Perhaps after I get more time with them I'll be able to offer up some useful observations.

Defmoot,

Glad you love your Threes, they are really nice speakers. What are you driving them with? If you have something like Audyssey, MACC, YAPO, or the like, the highs can be tamed down (it's automatically done with Audyssey).

Keep us posted and just enjoy them!!!

Ray

 

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post #9978 of 10823 Old 03-17-2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauaidoug View Post

Gee, thanks guys. My house is all kind of eclectic ,semi hippie Hawaiiana. Once I get the 3's(can't wait but I guess I have to) I will settle everyone in and think on it. I rent but have a long term situation. I need to mount my 42" Plasma up on the wall , I think, and may decide to have a friend build something around the TV that is also attached to the walls. My place is small but I live alone and don't throw too many wild parties like in the old light up and listen days. Don't need to worry about bumping etc.
Do I want the speakers to sit away from the wall? How far? Thanks again for your helpful posts.
Doug

Also, when I listen to my superzeroes I have noticed at times a funny pressure in my ears that i associate with the treble. I think I read something about this. Is this because they are new ? Do the speakers need breaking in because it is a little concerning.

Hi Doug,

If you're mounting your display on the wall and want to mount your speakers, OmniMount does make some that can handle it. But, if you built a shelf deep enough, it should work just fine (remember to leave enough room for the wiring on the binding posts on the back). As long as the front baffle is ahead of the display, you'll have no problems (the speakers are a LOT deeper than the display). Also, mount them at or just above ear height (the tweeter is the listening plane).

As in the above post, what AVR are you driving them with and have you run it's auto-eq? The SuperZeros should not be that 'shrill' in the highs, they have a soft dome. It may be your room being very lively (it would help to know what you have as far as furniture, rug, carpet, curtains, etc.)

As with any speaker system, the ROOM is extremely important. It has more influence on the sound, besides the speakers, than any part of the audio chain (actually very good speakers in a bad room will sound worse than less capable speakers 'good' room). There is no 'magic' room and any room can be treated or at least 'optimized' as much as possible for the best sound you can get out of your system (of course within constraints of budget, WAF, etc.). Most of the time changing placement of speakers (especially the sub) will make the most difference/improvement.

Ray

 

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post #9979 of 10823 Old 03-17-2012, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauaidoug View Post

I had some monster 16 gauge shipped with my sub. Now that I have 2 more speakers coming I'm short on wire.
My question is would it matter if I used a different brand but same gauge of wire in my speaker set up? I just don't have enough for the last of 3 speakers(not counting the sub)
I can run to Sears and get regular ol 16 gauge clear speaker wire and be ready to go when my Three's arrive this Monday.
Is there really a difference in wire as long as it is the same gauge?

Doug,

Go ahead and get the wire from Sears, they'll work just fine! You won't hear any difference between the 16 AWG wire from there or the 16AWG Monster cable - pretty much the same quality OFC cable.

The sub will use a low level cable, not speaker cable (I'm assuming a powered sub here).

Ray

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post #9980 of 10823 Old 03-17-2012, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post

Defmoot,

Glad you love your Threes, they are really nice speakers. What are you driving them with? If you have something like Audyssey, MACC, YAPO, or the like, the highs can be tamed down (it's automatically done with Audyssey).

Keep us posted and just enjoy them!!!

I've got a Denon 1611, which has enough power considering my MLP is only about seven feet. I listen to music 2.1 with an Outlaw EX, and movies 4.1 with phantom center. The imaging on the Threes is excellent. I don't really miss the center channel much, although at some point I'm sure I'll get a TwoC center and some better surrounds. Just because.

85% of my serious listening is music. I've run Audyssey a bunch of times on various speakers and like it, although I do play most music Flat with DynEQ off or set to -5. Depends on the recording. I haven't decided if I like the Audyssey curve for music yet. Time will tell. For movies I always use Audyssey and DynEQ. I rarely use DynVol simply because I don't need it.

I will say that the Threes have really opened up the soundstage a ton compared to previous speakers I've owned, and the clarity of voices and instruments is just crazy good. For years I owned a pair of KEF 105s and really liked them. It was some time ago, and memory betrays, but I don't remember them sounding anywhere near as sweet as these Threes.

hi-fidelity — why fight it?
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post #9981 of 10823 Old 03-18-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defmoot View Post

I've got a Denon 1611, which has enough power considering my MLP is only about seven feet. I listen to music 2.1 with an Outlaw EX, and movies 4.1 with phantom center. The imaging on the Threes is excellent. I don't really miss the center channel much, although at some point I'm sure I'll get a TwoC center and some better surrounds. Just because.

85% of my serious listening is music. I've run Audyssey a bunch of times on various speakers and like it, although I do play most music Flat with DynEQ off or set to -5. Depends on the recording. I haven't decided if I like the Audyssey curve for music yet. Time will tell. For movies I always use Audyssey and DynEQ. I rarely use DynVol simply because I don't need it.

I will say that the Threes have really opened up the soundstage a ton compared to previous speakers I've owned, and the clarity of voices and instruments is just crazy good. For years I owned a pair of KEF 105s and really liked them. It was some time ago, and memory betrays, but I don't remember them sounding anywhere near as sweet as these Threes.

Nice setup! Outlaw makes some awesome subs. I would suggest going with the Three C just to keep the front sound stage the same. But, if you feel fine without a center and it works, just keep it that way. The Threes do image very well.

I also keep DynVol off, seems to make the bass too boomy in most cases. I also rarely use DynEQ, but it has it's place. The Audyssey curve has a gentle roll-off in the high end which helps if your speakers seem too bright, but it's just a matter of preference. If you prefer the Flat setting, use it. I use the Audyssey curve for movies, but like you prefer it Flat for music.

Enjoy your setup - that's what it's all about!!!

Ray

 

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Anybody have comments on the Absolute On Walls, now that they are finally shipping?
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post #9983 of 10823 Old 03-18-2012, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

Anybody have comments on the Absolute On Walls, now that they are finally shipping?

Have not heard them, of course. But I'm willing to bet they sound pretty much the same as the regular Absolute Zeros being wall mounted. The XO's are most likely designed to take into account that they must be wall mounted and will take care of boundary gain issues.

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post #9984 of 10823 Old 03-18-2012, 04:14 PM
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True, but (as you know) one can't really predict the performance of a speaker from the name on the box or the drivers in the box.

For most people using them as surrounds, it wouldn't be critical. I was actually thinking about an unconventional use, for a desk listening setup (I'd have to figure some way to aim them at me) so they'd be mains.

I imagine there will be some people using them as L/R, they should do a lot better than most little mountable speakers.
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post #9985 of 10823 Old 03-18-2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

True, but (as you know) one can't really predict the performance of a speaker from the name on the box or the drivers in the box.

For most people using them as surrounds, it wouldn't be critical. I was actually thinking about an unconventional use, for a desk listening setup (I'd have to figure some way to aim them at me) so they'd be mains.

I imagine there will be some people using them as L/R, they should do a lot better than most little mountable speakers.

Agreed - have to always listen to them first. But NHT has a reputation of being very consistent and I'm sure this one won't deviate.

If using them for a desk listening, wouldn't the standard Absolute Zeros suit you better? I figure that the on-wall version is really only good for that intended purpose (can be used for L/R if mounted next to a flat panel). But, for anything away from the wall, which it's not made for, there may be some freq dip/peaks added. Just thinking out loud...

Ray

 

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post #9986 of 10823 Old 03-18-2012, 06:58 PM
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Buzzy,

I also forgot to add, in the past we compared the M5 to the L5 (made for on-wall) and you really did need the M5 if placed away from a wall as the L5 tended to sound 'thin'. the L5's were awesome though when mounted and not that deep.

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post #9987 of 10823 Old 03-18-2012, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post

Agreed - have to always listen to them first. But NHT has a reputation of being very consistent and I'm sure this one won't deviate.

If using them for a desk listening, wouldn't the standard Absolute Zeros suit you better? I figure that the on-wall version is really only good for that intended purpose (can be used for L/R if mounted next to a flat panel). But, for anything away from the wall, which it's not made for, there may be some freq dip/peaks added. Just thinking out loud...

But if his desk is against a wall, and he's going to mount them... it makes perfect sense - speaker in its intended placement, and nothing on the desk taking up space.

I considered the Absolute Wall for this very purpose... but didn't come up with a simple way to toe them in toward my listening position... so never really pursued the idea.
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post #9988 of 10823 Old 03-19-2012, 04:11 AM
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Thanks for the comments. I was trying to free up desk space. And get some NHTs back in the rotation.

Toe in is the challenge for that kind of setup. All the desktop speakers I've had really needed to be aimed at my ears, for nearfield anyway.
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post #9989 of 10823 Old 03-19-2012, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

But if his desk is against a wall, and he's going to mount them... it makes perfect sense - speaker in its intended placement, and nothing on the desk taking up space.

I considered the Absolute Wall for this very purpose... but didn't come up with a simple way to toe them in toward my listening position... so never really pursued the idea.

Got it, that makes sense. I don't see a mounting bolt for such mounts as the OmniMount on the back to be able to do that. It still may work pretty well mounting flush to the wall in this instance since the dispersion of the Classic Series is very good. It'll be interesting to here someones thoughts on this once they try it, I curious also.

What if the mounting bolt were long, i.e. sticking out of the wall about 1", and then on the outside back portion of the speakers you place 1/2" rubber feet (top and bottom)? Would that be enough of a toe-in? Just thinking of other possibilities. Won't look as clean though.

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post #9990 of 10823 Old 03-19-2012, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

Toe in is the challenge for that kind of setup. All the desktop speakers I've had really needed to be aimed at my ears, for nearfield anyway.

The only speaker that I haven't had to toe in on a desktop is the Mirage OMD-5... but it's not my preferred speaker for nearfield, since I feel it sounds a little too bright in that setting.

I have a pair of Peachtree DS4.5' on my desk now... and like them quite a bit - very smooth sounding speaker with relaxed high end, which makes them easy on the ears in a nearfield setting. For some though, they might sound dark/dull. My only real issue with them is that they sound a tiny bit boxed in, and need angled in quite a bit to sound good... Even then, they don't truly "disappear."

I think the NHT Absolute Zero images better on my desk, but still requires a good amount of toe in to do so. The downside for me is that it's more neutral sonic character makes for a less relaxed presentaion when sitting so close... The other issue is that, if fed a full range signal, they really need to be up off the desk a good bit, or they get overly full in the upper bass.

So I keep going back in forth on which I like better for nearfield... Either way, sitting so close, and having the speakers so close to the rear wall, makes it really tough to get a convincing soundstage, and the right sonic balance.
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