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post #11461 of 11489 Unread 07-26-2015, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post
I do use REW just for verification of my frequency response and room response (decay, etc.) but do not use it to EQ the room. For me, I think Audyssey really is the best auto room correction at the moment (XT32 that is). Yes, XT32 is pretty awesome! At the moment I'm still using the A100 (same as the 4311CI) with XT32. It does a great job of EQing 2 subs. I've set up MCACC (Pioneer), YPAO (Yamaha), Sony's version, and H&K's version and still prefer Audyssey. It does a great job. Many feel that you loose some bass, and that's because most folks are used to very hot bass. Easy fix- after running Audyssey just add +3db or more to the subs. I do use Audyssey Pro. I'm waiting to upgrade my AVR when all the newest formats are added. The process is happening now, so I will wait until next year. If not using Atmos, I think the best deal is the AVR-4520CI which was originally their flagship AVR with XT32 when it came out. It was $2500 at the time an can be had new for $1100 from accessories4less:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make...-150wpc/1.html


I think your pair of V1500's would be pretty awesome and in most rooms won't be any different than a pair of S3000i's. The output specs are pretty close. I can't wait to have them in, as you stated, I don't think I'll be disappointed at all.
I too keep hearing that XT32 is far and above the best solution here. I am likely going to try a Denon or Marantz especially considering how much support there is here at AVS for those two brands.

Considering I am a stickler for the latest and greatest... and that I want 4k and/or atoms in the future, I'm going to only be looking at their newer offerings. This year is definitely out of the picture so it will have to be next years offerings (Denon x4300w?)

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post #11462 of 11489 Unread 07-26-2015, 05:47 PM
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Get these from Steve. They are EXCELLENT, he also provides great instructions on how to really clean up and replace them. I bought some for my 3.3's . Between a very good cleaning and waxing (car polish and car wax), putting on new grill covers (get the good stuff from Parts express, the cheaper stuff looks brown) and these foams... my 3.3's are honestly looking like a 9.5/10 scale.

The foam may be relatively cheap, but getting the ends round like that is no small task. If you want, I'll post up some pictures of mine after putting them on there.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/NHT-2-9-3-3-...item43e021a226

Steve is the sellers name, these foams are the real deal.
I can't imagine that these have to be perfect. I already have the parts express foam and I should be able to cut reasonable oblongs that will be hidden by the grills. Steves solution would be easier but the price is a pretty high.
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post #11463 of 11489 Unread 07-26-2015, 08:12 PM
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I can't imagine that these have to be perfect. I already have the parts express foam and I should be able to cut reasonable oblongs that will be hidden by the grills. Steves solution would be easier but the price is a pretty high.
True.

It's a form vs function thing. It's hard to get those ends to not "squish" down, but functionally they would still work.

For me - 50 bucks was worth it. I also dumped 30 bucks into the high end grill cloth from parts express to re-do my grills (the cheap stuff had a brown cast to it).
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post #11464 of 11489 Unread 07-26-2015, 08:33 PM
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I too keep hearing that XT32 is far and above the best solution here. I am likely going to try a Denon or Marantz especially considering how much support there is here at AVS for those two brands.

Considering I am a stickler for the latest and greatest... and that I want 4k and/or atoms in the future, I'm going to only be looking at their newer offerings. This year is definitely out of the picture so it will have to be next years offerings (Denon x4300w?)
Yes, XT32 is amazing! I have other AVR's in the home with lesser renditions and they just don't compare. Like you, I'm waiting for all the newer formats, so hopefully next fall. I've had my current main one since 2011, so it's about time (the lesser ones are in the other room and suffice for them). I'm also waiting for displays to hash out their issues.
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post #11465 of 11489 Unread 07-26-2015, 08:37 PM
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I can't imagine that these have to be perfect. I already have the parts express foam and I should be able to cut reasonable oblongs that will be hidden by the grills. Steves solution would be easier but the price is a pretty high.
Another product you can use is a felt ring for the tweeters (which is really the main area you are trying to deal with). I mentioned it before, but here is the link:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-for-tweeters/

If you want to cut your own 'strips', then this would also work:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-running-foot/

They won't have the same issues as foam degradation.

I used to put the felt rings on all my speakers. I still have some with them from years ago and do not have any problems.

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post #11466 of 11489 Unread 07-26-2015, 10:47 PM
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@Cav , how big was your room again? Those subs are going to be killer!
@jhughy2010 , did you custom build that box or ? I was looking into that exact sub, want something small and sealed to go in my bedroom.
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post #11467 of 11489 Unread 07-26-2015, 10:51 PM
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Figures, I finally buy some Fours and something new and improved is coming out. Before I ordered I asked if there was anything "new" coming out in the near future (6-12months) and was told nope.

Question about 2-channel listening.

Would you guys rather have Absolute towers with RA Echo 18 or Fours with Echo 18?
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post #11468 of 11489 Unread Yesterday, 03:55 AM
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I am about to set up my sound system in our new home. I'll have NHT 2.9's as the left and right fronts, an AC-2 center and a James EMB-1200 Sub. That's the easy part. The hard part is getting wires to install rear speakers .... and side speakers are just out of the question given the furniture layout.

My thought is that I could use a wireless link to the "rears" and put them on either side of the sofa pointed either towards the wall behind or towards the ceiling. I'm thinking of using an Amphony wireless speaker kit to drive two small speakers for the rears. I have two NHT Super one's but they are pretty inefficient (87db) given the meager power of the amphony receiver but again, not much room for another amp in the rear....the sofa pretty much sits in the middle of a "great room"....so I'm open to suggestions.

The use of this system is just TV/Movies and occasional background music which won't use the rears at all. Fortunately, I have xt32 and a Pro Kit to help with whatever I install.

Has anyone used the Amphony or Rocketfish wireless for sides or rears? Any suggestions on a small speaker for the rears (I've even thought of Bose cubes although I dislike Bose)?

Is it even worth the investment $'s to have 5:1 vs 3:1?
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post #11469 of 11489 Unread Yesterday, 11:00 AM
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@Cav did you custom build that box or ? I was looking into that exact sub, want something small and sealed to go in my bedroom.
I got the kit (driver plus knock down mdf) from Parts Express.... very affordable. I'll post a picture of the finished product in the next few weeks. I just did a couple coats and am going to sand then do last coat in a day or two.

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Figures, I finally buy some Fours and something new and improved is coming out. Before I ordered I asked if there was anything "new" coming out in the near future (6-12months) and was told nope.

Question about 2-channel listening.

Would you guys rather have Absolute towers with RA Echo 18 or Fours with Echo 18?
I would definitely use the Fours with the Echo 18. I'd still cross them over at 80Hz though.

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post #11470 of 11489 Unread Yesterday, 06:56 PM
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I got the kit (driver plus knock down mdf) from Parts Express.... very affordable. I'll post a picture of the finished product in the next few weeks. I just did a couple coats and am going to sand then do last coat in a day or two.



I would definitely use the Fours with the Echo 18. I'd still cross them over at 80Hz though.
I'll be looking forward to those pics!

A also agree, use the Fours with the Echo 18. I'd try both 80Hz and 60Hz to see what sounds best for music/movies in your room.

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post #11471 of 11489 Unread Yesterday, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post
Figures, I finally buy some Fours and something new and improved is coming out. Before I ordered I asked if there was anything "new" coming out in the near future (6-12months) and was told nope.

Question about 2-channel listening.

Would you guys rather have Absolute towers with RA Echo 18 or Fours with Echo 18?
You might be safe regardless. I'm really curious what they are coming out with. I'm hoping still some standard type of tower and not only Atmos capable towers (where they put speakers on the top - I'd rather mount or put in-ceiling speakers than have that format).

Again, I agree with Jhughy: Fours with the Echo 18. That's one HUGE capable sub and paired with the Fours will give you some incredible sound!!!

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post #11472 of 11489 Unread Yesterday, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ghstudio View Post
I am about to set up my sound system in our new home. I'll have NHT 2.9's as the left and right fronts, an AC-2 center and a James EMB-1200 Sub. That's the easy part. The hard part is getting wires to install rear speakers .... and side speakers are just out of the question given the furniture layout.

My thought is that I could use a wireless link to the "rears" and put them on either side of the sofa pointed either towards the wall behind or towards the ceiling. I'm thinking of using an Amphony wireless speaker kit to drive two small speakers for the rears. I have two NHT Super one's but they are pretty inefficient (87db) given the meager power of the amphony receiver but again, not much room for another amp in the rear....the sofa pretty much sits in the middle of a "great room"....so I'm open to suggestions.

The use of this system is just TV/Movies and occasional background music which won't use the rears at all. Fortunately, I have xt32 and a Pro Kit to help with whatever I install.

Has anyone used the Amphony or Rocketfish wireless for sides or rears? Any suggestions on a small speaker for the rears (I've even thought of Bose cubes although I dislike Bose)?

Is it even worth the investment $'s to have 5:1 vs 3:1?

This is all dependent on how it works. 5.1 is definitely better than 3.1, but if you can't run wire you'll have to try the wireless options. I've tried different ones and it was all dependent on interference in the area for wireless transmission. Most use 2.5GHz and that is a highly used band so where you live will matter. I've used powered speakers and added wireless transmitter/receivers to them. They can work depending on the room size and length of the transmission signal.

http://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Trans...r+and+receiver

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Last edited by cavchameleon; Yesterday at 07:15 PM.
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post #11473 of 11489 Unread Yesterday, 07:20 PM
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Thanks. Been thinking about going fully dedicated even if the room is smaller. It's around 100 sq ft. So the Threes will be massive in there as surrounds.

I'm looking forward to pics of your sub and what you think of it. Especially compared to your PSA sub.
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Thanks. Been thinking about going fully dedicated even if the room is smaller. It's around 100 sq ft. So the Threes will be massive in there as surrounds.

I'm looking forward to pics of your sub and what you think of it. Especially compared to your PSA sub.
Just Do It. You won't regret having a dedicated room, even if smaller. You'll have to do some treatments to get the best out of it, but it'll all be worth it in the end.

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post #11475 of 11489 Unread Yesterday, 07:35 PM
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Just Do It. You won't regret having a dedicated room, even if smaller. You'll have to do some treatments to get the best out of it, but it'll all be worth it in the end.
How should I setup the speakers? Threes or Absolute towers for L/R? I'm planning on running all 7 remaining NHT speakers that I have.
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How should I setup the speakers? Threes or Absolute towers for L/R? I'm planning on running all 7 remaining NHT speakers that I have.
Aesthetically, the Absolute Towers would look better (and my wife would agree with that). Acoustically, they would sound pretty close to the same, especially after running Audyssey. My room is not much larger than what you're working with so it's tight, but works pretty well once treated and room correction run.

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So, I got the PSA's in today and finally took a pic (not where they'll be of course, have to swap them out behind the couch and can't get to that since we're leaving to Portland for a week). They are much bigger than I had thought. The W1s are (D x W x H): 16.65" x 13.5" x 22" and the S3000is are 18" x 24" x 22.5. So they are pretty equivalent on the height set up will be the same from the back of couch to wall (W1s at 16.65" and S3000i at 18" - so less than 1 1/2" ). The wider part is of course very different (going from 13.5" to 24"). That'll be a LOT of sub for the size of the room, but will pressurize it well (kinda like a sub in a car). Here is a pic with them in front of the Fours (would pretty much look like your Echo 18 Randall - actually your's is bigger!).
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Pic Attached(last one was degraded).
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post #11479 of 11489 Unread Yesterday, 09:13 PM
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^^ Hold on, you got (2) 3000i in a 100 sq ft room!? You are crazy! In a good way lol.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post
Aesthetically, the Absolute Towers would look better (and my wife would agree with that). Acoustically, they would sound pretty close to the same, especially after running Audyssey. My room is not much larger than what you're working with so it's tight, but works pretty well once treated and room correction run.
Alright, I wasn't sure if it would make much difference. I still have my VTI stands and a pair of Vantage Point wall mounts. Sell the stands and go wall mounted all around?

One plus is a 65" TV looks massive in that small of a room.
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Thanks. Been thinking about going fully dedicated even if the room is smaller. It's around 100 sq ft. So the Threes will be massive in there as surrounds.

I'm looking forward to pics of your sub and what you think of it. Especially compared to your PSA sub.
I'm honestly thinking that is going to be hard to ever go back to a speaker that I didn't build. The quality of components for the price is just so great.

Don't get me wrong, NHT makes some beautiful speakers that sound good. But I just wish they were louder. What I mean is that they just are so not sensitive compared to other options or there especially the DIY kits. I just wish that I had the skills to paint that piano black finish.

There is a member here that pulled it off but he had a buddy at the auto body shop.

Cav, you are in for a treat! Your set up looks great! Did you get the veneered subs in ash black?

Are you implementin anything besides XT32? I got the mini dsp from PSA and am excited to use it. Just have not had the time lately. I need to learn REW but to be honest the guide kind of sucks (sadly).
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I'm honestly thinking that is going to be hard to ever go back to a speaker that I didn't build. The quality of components for the price is just so great.

Don't get me wrong, NHT makes some beautiful speakers that sound good. But I just wish they were louder. What I mean is that they just are so not sensitive compared to other options or there especially the DIY kits. I just wish that I had the skills to paint that piano black finish.

There is a member here that pulled it off but he had a buddy at the auto body shop.

Cav, you are in for a treat! Your set up looks great! Did you get the veneered subs in ash black?

Are you implementin anything besides XT32? I got the mini dsp from PSA and am excited to use it. Just have not had the time lately. I need to learn REW but to be honest the guide kind of sucks (sadly).
So you're building more than just the sub? I think the finishing would be my biggest issue, cause I'm so picky. It would have to be perfect for me to approve. Or in a total blacked out room where nothing could be seen

I was looking at some veneer options but it gets pricey and wouldn't want to screw it up.
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Reading through the reviews and came across this one with veneer and it looks great IMO.

http://dg7jf5sx2cq0y.cloudfront.net/...3-bb0b28743421
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^^ Hold on, you got (2) 3000i in a 100 sq ft room!? You are crazy! In a good way lol.
Yes..Yes I am crazy!!! The room is 12' x 13' so 156 sq ft, but that's not really any different than 100 sq ft acoustically...

Should pressurize the the room very well.

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Alright, I wasn't sure if it would make much difference. I still have my VTI stands and a pair of Vantage Point wall mounts. Sell the stands and go wall mounted all around?

One plus is a 65" TV looks massive in that small of a room.
That's the size I have now, a 65" Plasma. I did measure and can 'squeeze' an 80" in there, but not sure it's really needed. When I need to upgrade I'll think about it.

Not sure about wall mounting. It's more of a preference, I prefer speakers on stands than wall mounts, but that's just me. You do benefit from having more space though by taking speakers off the floor.

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I'm honestly thinking that is going to be hard to ever go back to a speaker that I didn't build. The quality of components for the price is just so great.

Don't get me wrong, NHT makes some beautiful speakers that sound good. But I just wish they were louder. What I mean is that they just are so not sensitive compared to other options or there especially the DIY kits. I just wish that I had the skills to paint that piano black finish.

There is a member here that pulled it off but he had a buddy at the auto body shop.

Cav, you are in for a treat! Your set up looks great! Did you get the veneered subs in ash black?

Are you implementin anything besides XT32? I got the mini dsp from PSA and am excited to use it. Just have not had the time lately. I need to learn REW but to be honest the guide kind of sucks (sadly).
I'm just using XT32 with Audyssey Pro. It allows enough tweaking for me to set up the room correctly and the sub placement is extremely symmetrical so no need to go further in this room. I thought about getting a mini-dsp and may still do so in the future to do a primary tweak and then let Audyssey do the rest.

Yes, I did get the veneered subs in ash black. Beautiful finish!!! I wish the edges were rounded off, but that would cost more.

I did a lot of speaker building back in the day and it's a lot of fun. As you said, you can get some pretty good parts for the price. The main kicker is crossover design. If you're already building from a pre-designed kit, then that's a non-issue. But if truly building DIY from scratch, then you have to really work on box design to match driver parameters and then design the XO to work with the drivers in the specific box your going to use. Fortunately there is software to help with all of this.

The finishing, yes - extremely hard to do gloss black. You need an extremely clean environment to work in (like an auto body painting shop as mentioned) and then there are many layers of sanding-painting-sanding-painting, then the final clear coats (also multi-layered if you want that deep gloss shine). It's not easy. Then there is a lot of buffing. The easier method would be using a veneer, stain, then varnish - then buff out.
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Another easy option for speaker finish is DuraTex (kinda like the finish on the 'textured' PSA subs and many out there, including pro speaker versions). All you have to do is make your finish fairly smooth, and this will cover/hide small blemishes.It gives a pretty good, durable finish:

http://www.parts-express.com/acry-te...t-wit--260-107

Randall, the sub you posted has a pretty cool finish. I really like the texture of the wood.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post
Reading through the reviews and came across this one with veneer and it looks great IMO.

http://dg7jf5sx2cq0y.cloudfront.net/...3-bb0b28743421
I too was going to go the veneer route, however, as you can see from the picture the front baffle has rounded corners. It would make the front baffle very difficult to veneer. This person overcame that by painting the front baffle gloss black. Since this was my first sub build I decided to keep it as easy as I could and went with paint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post
I'm just using XT32 with Audyssey Pro. It allows enough tweaking for me to set up the room correctly and the sub placement is extremely symmetrical so no need to go further in this room. I thought about getting a mini-dsp and may still do so in the future to do a primary tweak and then let Audyssey do the rest.
In my opinion that is really all you need. A miniDSP was kind of a necessity without upgrading my AVR to have independent dual sub outs. I think I would be completely satisfied with an XT32 AVR that phase aligns and EQs each sub independently.

Quote:
Yes, I did get the veneered subs in ash black. Beautiful finish!!! I wish the edges were rounded off, but that would cost more.
Well they look great! I think Tom really went above and beyond with the quality control of these subs. I'm sure the guy that veneers these subs is nothing short of a perfectionist. In fact, I really cannot wait to see some pics of the MT-110's with a veneer finish. It will definitely be on my short list if I decide not to build my next set of speakers.

Quote:
I did a lot of speaker building back in the day and it's a lot of fun. As you said, you can get some pretty good parts for the price. The main kicker is crossover design. If you're already building from a pre-designed kit, then that's a non-issue. But if truly building DIY from scratch, then you have to really work on box design to match driver parameters and then design the XO to work with the drivers in the specific box your going to use. Fortunately there is software to help with all of this.
Fortunately the DIYsoundgroup has put a huge selection of pre-selected kits together to make this easier for us beginners however, if I had to design these as you did in the past I think I would have been much more discouraged at getting into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post
Another easy option for speaker finish is DuraTex (kinda like the finish on the 'textured' PSA subs and many out there, including pro speaker versions). All you have to do is make your finish fairly smooth, and this will cover/hide small blemishes.It gives a pretty good, durable finish:

http://www.parts-express.com/acry-te...t-wit--260-107

Randall, the sub you posted has a pretty cool finish. I really like the texture of the wood.
I decided to give the Rustoleum 4x a try... I really really like the way that it looks. I did two coats this past weekend and will do a bit of sanding and do a final coat today or tomorrow. I was really surprised at how thick it was! This is actually why I decided to sand before a final coat (was just going to do 2 coats).

After I'm done painting I have to grab some poly fill and 14 gauge speaker wire (both for inside the cabinet and the connectors from the amp to the cabinet). Then I'll pick up an amp in the coming month. I've been contemplating trying the iNuke series of amps out from Behringer. I also have been considering the Crown XLS series.

My next project might be a pair of these floor standing speakers. I would likely have them build the crossover (I don't even have a soldering iron).

Gear: Pioneer VSX-1124-K, NHT Classic Three (L/R), Classic Two (rear) TwoC (center).
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Rustoleum 4x is as thick as the Duratex I mentioned, good choice! I use Rustoleum products almost monthly on something, great products!!! I'd like to see some pics of your finished product.

I've used both Behringer and Crown products/amps (still do). IMO, Crown is a step up though in the amp department but you can't go wrong with either. It's quite amazing how light these Class D amps are and how much power they can put out.

Looks like you're really getting into the DIY arena, that's awesome! A lot of fun and satisfaction!

As for the finish of the veneer on the PSA's, they are quite incredible. I was very impressed. There was still and oil coat on it that I just wiped off with microfiber cloth and it shines incredibly well. They'll be behind the couch though, so not visible which my wife would prefer because they are 'big black boxes' or should I say HUGE black boxes - and quite heavy! I am putting other rubber feet on it, not because they need it but because the carpet is thick and the included feet are quite small. That way the full weight of the subs will be on the feet and not the whole bottom of the sub. I use these (they are large and very affordable).

http://www.parts-express.com/penn-el...x-1-h--260-772

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