New NHT Classic line to replace Super Audio - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 10820 Old 09-29-2005, 04:02 PM
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No, but at some point, I expect that there will be a specific white onwall speaker that is tonally matched. The Three is pretty deep to be wall mounted and so the white is less important, but an L5 style onwall might be a possibility when the L5 is up for an update, but I'd peg that at at least a year away.

John
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post #92 of 10820 Old 09-29-2005, 08:55 PM
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any chance of there being a matching dipole/bipole?...something a little less obtrusive/protrusive than the old HDP's?
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post #93 of 10820 Old 09-29-2005, 09:00 PM
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Nope! NHT's semi-official philosophy there is that dipole speakers are best left in the past with Pro-logic and THX. Set up properly, there's just no solid reason for dipoles any more. However, they do believe in wide dispersion, which can sound even better than a "bipole", which isn't actually a bipole, nor has it bipole radiation in an on-wall design.

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post #94 of 10820 Old 09-29-2005, 09:06 PM
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Bummer.

Without getting into the positives/negatives of dipole speakers, I'll just say that I differ with NHT's philosophy on this....especially in a home theater where the side speakers are relatively close to the listeners.
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post #95 of 10820 Old 09-29-2005, 09:13 PM
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Ran,

wait til you hear the THREE (or Xd). It will change your mind on this, trust me. All you have to do if the sidewalls are close is to move the speaker up on the wall or to move them back a bit. Especially with the new ones.

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post #96 of 10820 Old 09-29-2005, 09:21 PM
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hmmmm...will be curious to hear indeed, but from a room aesthetics point of view, I suspect that some folks prefer something that blends in a little better. That's why I ended up going with Phase Tech V-Surrounds. Nope, they don't match my fronts, but they don't call attention to themselves up on the walls.

Yep, I'll be curious to hear the 3's when they come to the local dealer.

Ran
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post #97 of 10820 Old 09-30-2005, 11:22 AM
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This thread has got me thinking. My HT is not going to be ready for speakers until Christmas so I could listen to the Classic line. If I like them (and I hope I would - loved the evolutions T6) what are the pros for the Classic over the evolutions? Jack mentioned that that the classic is more consumer while evolution is more custom. I'm a consumer doing a custom HT!!! My room is just over 3000 cubic ft with front projection. My center will sit against the wall below the screen. I preferred the T6 over the T5 if that makes any difference.

It sounds as though the M5/6 - L5 might solve placement issues but the classic may benefit from newer technology.
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post #98 of 10820 Old 09-30-2005, 06:22 PM
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There are no plans to discontinue sale of the L5.

The Three won't be offered in white due to the very low number of people who would be willing to wall mount the speaker.

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post #99 of 10820 Old 09-30-2005, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcarey View Post

I'm a consumer doing a custom HT!!!

Thank you for saying that, it's a message I was trying to send to them the other day. There need be no distinction. It shouldn't matter whether it's "spec'd in" or chosen by a customer in a store. But I digress!
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My room is just over 3000 cubic ft with front projection. My center will sit against the wall below the screen. I preferred the T6 over the T5 if that makes any difference.

If the room is narrow and the speakers are near the wall, the controlled dispersion of the M5/M6 might outweigh the advantages of the new drivers. I haven't heard the difference and NHT tends to not make subjective evaluations of their own gear or try to tell people which sounds "best". They don't even seem to ever say how they improved over the previous version.

However, I do believe that the Three/Four have more resolution and a more "open" and spacious sound, which is good if you have a reasonably wide wall, say, 15' wide or so. The fact that you like the M6s more than the M5 leads me to believe that you'd like the Three even more. The low diffraction baffle, new tweeter and dome midrange should be an upgrade. The only thing is that the Evolution woofers are definitely still number one. What we need here is a high-end subwoofer in piano black that is truly worthy to be used with the Three. Or maybe a U2 in Piano Black. I wouldn't use less than a U2 with the Three, which makes the color difference a bit unfortunate.

John
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post #100 of 10820 Old 10-01-2005, 07:24 AM
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Thanks John. My room is an annoyingly square 17' by 20'. As I have time I should listen and see if I can hear enough of a difference to warrant the potential issue with the surrounds in that at the moment I am planning on wall L5s. The sub point is interesting. I suppose with the sub you have more latitude to look at other brands. I heard the T6/L5 with a paradigm signature series sub added and that sounded great although I can imagine the setup would be tough. One of the things with the T6 approach is having your subs stuck in the corners.......
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post #101 of 10820 Old 10-01-2005, 11:30 AM
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We definitely recommend to not add a subwoofer to a T6 system. It will be impossible to ge the two systems sum correctly. If you need more bass output than a T6 system has, just add a U1 or U2 subwoofer to it. This is guaranteed to add correctly.

I don't understand your comment about the "T6 approach is having your subs stuck in the corners...".

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post #102 of 10820 Old 10-01-2005, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcarey View Post

Thanks John. My room is an annoyingly square 17' by 20'.

Annoyingly square isn't an issue for midrange and treble. And you could easily use a wide dispersion speaker like the Three or Four in there. If it's an unusually echo'y or bright sounding room then the M5 or M6 will help with this.
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The sub point is interesting. I suppose with the sub you have more latitude to look at other brands.

Don't get me wrong, I'm just saying that the Three would automatically deserve, almost *need* either two good subs or one great one to match the performance, as do the M5/M6 speakers. The Four has two *good* subs and the Evo subs are *great* subs, especially if you value precision and musicality over throbbing rumble. They go deep, but they stop on a dime.
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One of the things with the T6 approach is having your subs stuck in the corners.......

Did you read a Sound & Vision article or what?

John
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post #103 of 10820 Old 10-01-2005, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

However, I do believe that the Three/Four have more resolution and a more "open" and spacious sound, which is good if you have a reasonably wide wall, say, 15' wide or so. The fact that you like the M6s more than the M5 leads me to believe that you'd like the Three even more.

Without trying to sound overly combative...

I find it extremely interesting how you can make definitive statements about how a speaker performs without ever having heard it...

I think words like "may", "might" or "I would assume", etc... might be more appropriate.

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post #104 of 10820 Old 10-01-2005, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BachToRock View Post

I find it extremely interesting how you can make definitive statements about how a speaker performs without ever having heard it...

If you understand the underlying acoustics, it's not that hard, trust me.
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I think words like "may", "might" or "I would assume", etc... might be more appropriate.

"I do believe" doesn't count? Admission of belief is anything but definitive.

FWIW, rumor has it that the Four has the kind of sound with which a 3.3/2.9 owner would fall in love. At least, that's what I was told.

John
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post #105 of 10820 Old 10-02-2005, 07:07 AM
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Being a longtime NHT fan I would hope and assume that the new series will perform admirably, but to actually know if they possess qualities such as detailed resolution and a "open" and spacious sound is not guaranteed until we have the opportunity to audition them. The ingredients look great... let's just hope Jack and the boys did a great job designing these tasty looking speakers!

Sold my 1.5's in preparation for some THREE's
A-20's are staying in the studio...
ST-4's in the bedroom are in danger of being replaced by the FOUR
3.3's are not going anywhere soon... still the best overall speaker I have ever heard!

NHT CLASSIC FOUR's Front & Rear, CLASSIC 3C, Classic 12 Sub, Panasonic TC-P65VT30, DVD-3800BDCI, HD-XA2, SONY TA-P9000ES Preamp, BRYSTON and Marantz Amplifiers...
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post #106 of 10820 Old 10-02-2005, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BachToRock View Post

Being a longtime NHT fan I would hope and assume that the new series will perform admirably, but to actually know if they possess qualities such as detailed resolution and a "open" and spacious sound is not guaranteed until we have the opportunity to audition them.

Here's my case.

Metal drivers are more rigid and this means fine details are not absorbed. Smaller drivers are more rigid, which means resolution is further enhanced. IOW, that dome midrange, by its very nature, will have very high levels of resolution (aka low distortion/low inband spectral decay).

Smaller radiators will automatically have wider dispersion in their upper ranges. The 2" will have much wider/higher dispersion than a 4" in the upper midrange/low treble. The .75" dome will have more dispersion in the upper treble. Furthermore, while the M5/M6 actually have a cancellation area in the upper midrange (which avoids too much reflection from a close wall), the Three/Four design is specifically engineered to have the widest possible dispersion in all directions. This means more ambient reflection in the upper midrange and this means a "more open, more spacious sound".

The low diffraction baffle is specifically designed to increase dispersion in the upper mids and treble by ameliorating the "kinks" that occur when the soundwave suddenly shifts direction at the speaker corner. One of the complaints of the 3.3 is that it wasn't spacious. It had reduced reflection from the ceiling/sidewalls compared to some speakers. This is because of its design, not because of some unknown, unpredictable interaction.

IOW, *everything* about the new Three/Four is designed around lowering distortion and increasing dispersion which is essentially identical to increasing resolution and spaciousness. Besides, I'm about 95% sure that the exact goal was to emulate the Xd as best possible, but with an analog speaker. With a 110dB/octave crossover, you can make a precise, wide dispersion, low distortion handoff. However, you can't do that with a 6" and a 1" in the analog domain. The handoff between the drivers will be "off" in both dispersion and distortion ("sound"), not to mention out of bandwidth distortions and FR errors because the drivers are pushed more than is ideal.

The 2" dome acts as a bridge. The typical 1" dome can be replaced by a .75" which automatically yields wider upper treble dispersion ("air") and the 6" driver can be cut off *very* early (~800Hz instead of ~3000Hz), meaning that rigidity is not a problem and the driver can be tweaked for more upper bass/low mid performance. And rather than having the upper mids being handled by a driver that would have squelched dispersion, the 2" dome is free to radiate a coherent soundfield, unfettered by being too big for the job. It's a solution that has been done on some flagship speakers such as B&W's [actual] Nautilus, Energy's Veritas and several others, but never, to my knowledge, on something this affordable before.

So, yeah, I'm making a presumption here, but only the presumption that NHT didn't do anything to impede the obvious advantages of this design. The *only* thing really in question is *how detailed* and *how spacious*, not if it is better in these areas because that is a given. Well, tonal balance is the other issue. What is the flavor of the speaker? We don't know that. My prediction is that it is voiced marginally towards the forgiving side of things so that they don't come across as bright in a normal room. The Xds are shockingly smooth, so if they can mimic that balance, all is right with the world
Quote:



Sold my 1.5's in preparation for some THREE's

Hey, I thought *I* was being presumptious- pot, kettle, black!!!

John
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post #107 of 10820 Old 10-03-2005, 04:47 PM
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I didn't read a "Sound and Vision" article but maybe the dealer I spoke to had! Before I continue I should say that I make the newest amateur seem like an old hand pro! I am also at the room design phase of my HT and have been reading endless acoustic posts on this site and elsewhere. Once room treatments for low frequency have been put in place it seem as though the next step can be moving the sub to improve the sound throughout the room. If you can't do this then it limits your options - right? My dealer mentioned that he had used an additional sub for this purpose. I'm going to head back there this weekend and quiz him about it. I would love to learn the pros/cons surrounding this. The bottom line is I LOVED the sound I heard from the T6s and maybe the phrase "stuck in the corner" wasn't quite the right one........
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post #108 of 10820 Old 10-06-2005, 12:51 PM
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Would I be giving up a lot if I went without a center channel?
I cannnot find a media stand/cabinet that lets me put a center channel
below my Sony LCD RPTV.
At least not any of the NHT Classic Centers.

I will be going with the Threes front and back and the 12" sub.
My Mirage M3s put the dialogue right at the center of the TV when
the center channel is off.
Can I expect the kind of soundstaging and imaging with the Threes that will make
the 3C unnecessary?
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post #109 of 10820 Old 10-06-2005, 02:48 PM
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The center channel is quite important for dialog & center fill for music & ambience. If you have your set placed up against a rear wall, you might be able to use one of those wall mounts used for small TVs in the bedroom to hold your center above your set. I have one w/ my JVC 52" D-ILA RPT & it works great.
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post #110 of 10820 Old 10-06-2005, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b4z View Post

Would I be giving up a lot if I went without a center channel?
I cannnot find a media stand/cabinet that lets me put a center channel
below my Sony LCD RPTV.
At least not any of the NHT Classic Centers.

Have you looked at some of the Stuio Tech stuff? www.studiotech.com
Quote:



I will be going with the Threes front and back and the 12" sub.
My Mirage M3s put the dialogue right at the center of the TV when
the center channel is off.
Can I expect the kind of soundstaging and imaging with the Threes that will make
the 3C unnecessary?

Theoretically, but it all comes down to room acoustics and setup. The center makes it a lot easier, but if the Mirages can do it in your room, the NHTs should be able to as well.

John
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post #111 of 10820 Old 10-07-2005, 09:33 AM
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The Classic series is now shown on NHT's website.

Are any dealers offering them, yet?
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post #112 of 10820 Old 10-07-2005, 10:27 AM
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Sorry if i missed this portion of the thread but would the Classic series be a semi-decent timbre match to the Super Audio series speakers? I just recently bought a pair of NHT SB 2's at a discounted price of $300 a pair and could not afford two more to use as surrounds. I was wondering what my options were down the road in terms of adding more speakers to my system.

Only time will tell what the future holds...so until then JAM LIKE THERES NO TOMORROW!
-Rob

My Natalie P project
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post #113 of 10820 Old 10-07-2005, 10:31 AM
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mjc - they're still a few weeks away for the AZ, Two, Ten, Twelve and 2C with the rest to follow.

Exocer - probably the $600/pr Two is the probably best match, but you could probably also find SB2s used. I know we'll probably have some as I do the big "Upgrade to Classic" push here in a month or so.

John
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post #114 of 10820 Old 10-07-2005, 11:14 AM
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Alimental,

I think you guys are right. I will be giving up too much without the center.

I found this media stand at World Market yesterday. 40" wide(same as my CWD)
but with no center divider/support.
Center can go in the upper shelf and everything below.
Or center can go in upper shelf sitting on my DVD players, etc. Plenty of height and width. I think I mmeasured about 9" tall for the space in the top shelf.
$249. I may wait for it to go on sale for $199.
3c will fit fine.

http://www.worldmarket.com/costplus/...tid=48&id=3339
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post #115 of 10820 Old 10-09-2005, 07:22 AM
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I know this is a little bit off topic but I just wanted to report back after my second visit to my local NHT dealer. The system I had heard where I ASSUMED they were adding a Paradigm Signature sub to a T6 system was actually a sub added to an M6 system. They told me that they were not using the T6 in that room just because of the room set-up where they needed bookshelves. I also asked them about the "subs in the corner" with the T6 and they guy (a T6 owner....) told me that it wasn't a problem and went on to talk about how configurable it it. The M6/paradigm sub combo did sound fantastic and I would have really liked to listen to the T6 in a proper room to compare. The T5 setup they had was good but seemed to lack a little bit of low end punch for my taste.

I'm sure these guys will have the Classic line once available and so I will be back. Did also listen to B&W, Paradigm, Def Tech and Martin Logans. NHT still wins it for me!
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post #116 of 10820 Old 10-11-2005, 11:25 AM
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It seems like the THREE C's 75hz low limit is awfully high for dual 6.5" drivers?

The THREE is rated at 45hz and has a single 6.5?

The AC-2 and VC-3 were rated around 45hz as well... any explanation?

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post #117 of 10820 Old 10-11-2005, 11:54 AM
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Cabinet size. Also, I'm willing to bet Jack says that it was tuned to use the TV/cabinet/bookshelf as bass reinforcment. IOW, it's assuming placement and compensating accordingly in order to keep the midbass from getting chesty. Like the boundary switch on the M5/M6, but always set to "1". If the speaker is in free space, on a stand, then use the THREE.

If I ever actually start finishing Jack's sentences, slap me.

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post #118 of 10820 Old 10-11-2005, 12:02 PM
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B2R,

Some of this has to do with cabinet size. The VC-3 was 10" x 8.5" 22". This is 50% larger than the 3C is. This allows us to build a speaker with a lower bass cutoff.

Very few people actually used the low bass output from the VC3, VR3, etc. When we designed the 2C and 3C we decided to optimize their design to reduce distortion and maximize SPL capability in their passband (above 70Hz). There are tradeoffs in driver design between lowering distortion and increasing bass extension.

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post #119 of 10820 Old 10-11-2005, 01:09 PM
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Hmmm, maybe I can claim "partial credit" on that.

John
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post #120 of 10820 Old 10-12-2005, 01:07 PM
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Not to change the subject, but.....
today is October 12th.
Does NHT have a firm ship date on the Classic line?
My Mirage M3s are for sale for $750 and I am waiting patiently.
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