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post #2401 of 3465 Old 04-08-2011, 12:02 PM
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Not to put anything down, as the speakers for these users are all very nice but I noticed that many are attached to the asthetic look of hardwood floors. However, it's not exactly condusive for quality sound with all the reflections. I have a carpeted room and I used to live in a home with hard floors. The quality difference from speakers is stunning between the two. So, if you are so obsessive with sound that you go the extra mile to do something expensive and/or custom/special, I urge all people reading NOT to go with hard floors in the room.
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post #2402 of 3465 Old 04-08-2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Nice picks and setup. I just have the C2s now, in my main theater. But I went out and bought the new Martin Logan Electromotions and I must say they are sweet as well. Trickle down economics, as they use the same crossover and panel as the Vantage. I will always be a Dynaudio fan, as I love there sound.

Garman. The Dyn's while overpriced sure do look very nice. Attractiveness rating 10.0! I've heard the Martin Logans before several times but never heard the Dyns. Could you please compare how the ML's sound in contrast to the Dyns?

Thanks.
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post #2403 of 3465 Old 04-08-2011, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

Garman. The Dyn's while overpriced sure do look very nice. Attractiveness rating 10.0! I've heard the Martin Logans before several times but never heard the Dyns. Could you please compare how the ML's sound in contrast to the Dyns?

Thanks.

All depends on which ones you buy, they have speakers ranging from $600 a pair all the way up to $85,000.(all sound great to my ears) Now mind you I got most of mine pretty inexpensively as I use to work for a dealer that carried these.

Totally different sound between the two types of speakers! Dynaudio are accurate and very smooth and detailed. The Martin Logans are very open sounding and throw up a huge soundstage. The Martin Logans have shocked me on price verses performance, especially with there Electromotion speakers.
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post #2404 of 3465 Old 04-09-2011, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
All depends on which ones you buy, they have speakers ranging from $600 a pair all the way up to $85,000.(all sound great to my ears) Now mind you I got most of mine pretty inexpensively as I use to work for a dealer that carried these.

Totally different sound between the two types of speakers! Dynaudio are accurate and very smooth and detailed. The Martin Logans are very open sounding and throw up a huge soundstage. The Martin Logans have shocked me on price verses performance, especially with there Electromotion speakers.
The Martin Logans have a huge soundstage because they are dispersing the sound as a dipole speaker. It's more reflection than true direct sound and the soundstage is a bit of an illusion. While not accurate, it certainly sounds like it has depth from the listener to beyond the speaker position.

From what I remember about the Dyn mids, they use polypropylene which would explain the "smooth" character to the sound and it's largely why I chose poly-based drivers in my home theater as well as car audio systems. Although I didn't buy expensive brands, I really think driver material plays a big role in the signature sound a speaker has. Polypropylene is often described as a material that is light, rigid, responsive yet has excellent damping but it's weakness is that it has a unoptimally low breakup frequency of 1,500Hz which makes it expensive to make a crossover network that keeps the breakup inaudible (or as imperceptible as possible). Some manufacturers add additional mass to the poly to increase damping or to reduce it's breakup distortion, but ultimately, in my opinion, it's the best sounding material ever used for drivers due to that "smooth" adjective people label it with.

Dynaudio somehow managed to make a poly-based series of mids which measure incredibly LOW in distortion tests. Dynaudio attempts to "dress up" the way they tell you about the driver material (MSP - Magnesium Silicate Polymer) but that is essentially Polypropylene, lol. I don't know how they managed that little trick as many well known brands (Infinity for one) abandoned poly material and invented their own (CMMD) driver material with a very high breakup frequency making it easy to design a cheap crossover that keeps the breakup distortion inaudible. I frankly don't hear the distortion these design engineers talk about in regards to poly. To me the material just sounds the most natural in the vocal range when playing back recorded sound. Smooth/organic, not tinny or harsh or metallic like so many other materials sound.
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post #2405 of 3465 Old 04-10-2011, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

The Martin Logans have a huge soundstage because they are dispersing the sound as a dipole speaker. It's more reflection than true direct sound and the soundstage is a bit of an illusion. While not accurate, it certainly sounds like it has depth from the listener to beyond the speaker position.

From what I remember about the Dyn mids, they use polypropylene which would explain the "smooth" character to the sound and it's largely why I chose poly-based drivers in my home theater as well as car audio systems. Although I didn't buy expensive brands, I really think driver material plays a big role in the signature sound a speaker has. Polypropylene is often described as a material that is light, rigid, responsive yet has excellent damping but it's weakness is that it has a unoptimally low breakup frequency of 1,500Hz which makes it expensive to make a crossover network that keeps the breakup inaudible (or as imperceptible as possible). Some manufacturers add additional mass to the poly to increase damping or to reduce it's breakup distortion, but ultimately, in my opinion, it's the best sounding material ever used for drivers due to that "smooth" adjective people label it with.

Dynaudio somehow managed to make a poly-based series of mids which measure incredibly LOW in distortion tests. Dynaudio attempts to "dress up" the way they tell you about the driver material (MSP - Magnesium Silicate Polymer) but that is essentially Polypropylene, lol. I don't know how they managed that little trick as many well known brands (Infinity for one) abandoned poly material and invented their own (CMMD) driver material with a very high breakup frequency making it easy to design a cheap crossover that keeps the breakup distortion inaudible. I frankly don't hear the distortion these design engineers talk about in regards to poly. To me the material just sounds the most natural in the vocal range when playing back recorded sound. Smooth/organic, not tinny or harsh or metallic like so many other materials sound.

Well, as when reviewing speakers it always comes down to what "Your" ears like, and this is one person that likes both of these speakers. Dynaudio been making some very good speakers for years and now they are affordable to many considering there DM line and Excite line are very good for what they cost. To me there drivers sound excellent, hence many other speaker manufactures were using them. You could at one time make your own, but the Chinese trying to make knock offs put a stop to this.
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post #2406 of 3465 Old 04-11-2011, 02:35 PM
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I purchased a pair of ElectroMotions and I am not so impressed with them. They seem very bright and lack the warmth of the SL3's that I had some years ago. I have tried to like them over the last two weeks, but just can't.
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post #2407 of 3465 Old 04-11-2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFERADAM12 View Post
I purchased a pair of ElectroMotions and I am not so impressed with them. They seem very bright and lack the warmth of the SL3's that I had some years ago. I have tried to like them over the last two weeks, but just can't.
Simple task, return them! I like there sound but they are a secondary pair of speakers and I was a SL3 owner. I guaranty you will not have a problem selling them, if you can't return them. I have mine hooked up to a tube Amp, not sure what your using, but like I said it's what "your ears like" pretty simple when it comes to speakers, you either like them or hate them.
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post #2408 of 3465 Old 04-11-2011, 06:53 PM
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You are 100% correct everybody hears things a little different. I may end up with a pair of Menepans...we shall see. I do have them on eBay as we speak for $300 under retail so I hope they sell.

I am using the same equipment that I used with the last pair of speakers (ML Source) and they sounded just fine; warm & three dimensional. When I replaced the Source with the ElectroMotions I noticed a lack of that ML sound that I have been addicted to.
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post #2409 of 3465 Old 04-12-2011, 01:11 AM
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I am a used or sometimes new loudspeaker collector including amp collector primarily carvers and lately the newer emotiva.

My largest and baddest is my beloved ACOUSTAT spectra 33 w/spl-1 subwoofer, fyi, it's 68 H x 38 W x 2 D and requires a min of 100 wpc just to drive it at a 4 ohm load, high current amplifier requirement.
My 2nd is an OHM WALSH 300 MK 2 just redone to 3000 by ohm acoustics last november
My 3rd is EMINENT TECHNOLOGY LFT 8A which i will eventually upgrade to the B tweeters planar/push pull more like electorstats without the power supply
My 4th is my MAGNEPAN MG 2.5r ordered a new ribbon tweeter last year 2010
My 5th is my Ohm walsh 4x0 which I will replace the driver with my acquired 200 mk 2 drivers.
My 6th is my SRSLABS klayman signature flat panel drivers that needs a subwoofer to operate.
My 7th is my ohm walsh 2x0 which I use for my rear surrounds for my ohm HT system setup.
My 8th is ohm pro 200 cylinder which I sometimes use for center or rear surrounds though they are good for front ht set ups.

BOOKSHELF:
my 1st is sunfire CRM-2
my 2nd is the more expensive just acquired SLS HTR-8 another ribbon which is known for their professional and cinema applications, at a 2002 price of $2000 per speaker, got it for $365 a pair used, in good condition with shipping. What a deal!
my 3rd is ESS HEIL AMT 10B which i just acquired for $500 total including shipping
my 4th is a smaller SLS HTR 2
my 5th is klipsch rb 51
my 5th is BIC bookshelf tippany,forgot the model from the 70's which I am modifying with parts express and madisound crossovers and ribbon drivers. It uses a waveguide to create a 360 degree pattern.

I'm not going to include my surround speakers or subs since I have so many.
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post #2410 of 3465 Old 04-12-2011, 04:03 PM
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Yeah, I could use one.

However, I use the Playstation 3 for Bluray and it's remote is RF.

My DirecTV is also RF.

TV and Pionner SC-35 is IR, but I can buy the stuffto tune the AVR into RF remote controlled.

Does Harmony bring all that into harmony?

Your ps3 remote should be bluetooth. There are upper grade harmony remotes that do RF. Harmony also makes a IR to bluetooth converter for controlling a ps3 via harmony remote. I didn't bother with the converter (just use my ps3 dual shock3) but I replaced every other remote in my setup with a harmony wich brings my total from 4 to 2. Many HT enthusiasts say that a true universal remote (such as the harmony line from logitech) is the most useful piece of equipment in their entire setup, and I would happen to agree with that asessment.

Stand tall and shake the heavens...
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post #2411 of 3465 Old 04-13-2011, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFERADAM12 View Post

You are 100% correct everybody hears things a little different. I may end up with a pair of Menepans...we shall see. I do have them on eBay as we speak for $300 under retail so I hope they sell.

I am using the same equipment that I used with the last pair of speakers (ML Source) and they sounded just fine; warm & three dimensional. When I replaced the Source with the ElectroMotions I noticed a lack of that ML sound that I have been addicted to.

Well I saw you added more to your comment, I found just the opposite as the panel used in the Vantage and the Electromotions and the Crossover are the same with the panel being smaller of course with the EMs. The Source for me lacked detail and bass, but then again it takes over 100+ hours to break a speaker in, room equipment factor in, etc... Must have been the fastest sale for your Electromotions as there is none on ebay right.

Frankly if you want warm and detailed the Dynaudio sound much better to me.
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post #2412 of 3465 Old 04-14-2011, 08:16 AM
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Just purchased this week
4 Focal 826w 30th anniversary
1 Focal Profile cc908
denon 3311ci
REL R 328 series sub
very happy with the speakers, they sound great!
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post #2413 of 3465 Old 04-14-2011, 10:49 AM
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Come on people, pictures please! Tsk, tsk.
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post #2414 of 3465 Old 04-14-2011, 01:12 PM
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Haven't replaced my sub yet, unfortunately.

Energy RC-LCR, RC-50 & CB-5 for the movies/consoles
Energy RC-10 & Orb Audio Super Eight for the computer/music

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post #2415 of 3465 Old 04-14-2011, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

Come on people, pictures please! Tsk, tsk.


OK, here are some speakers I had over the Years. The Carver Amazing Speakers I upgraded the woofers and panel on them and when I got done they sounded wonderful as the new panel was a drastic improvement. But it still took a beast of a Amp to drive them. Martin Logan SL3s, Dynaudio Contour 2.8s, B&W P6, horrible speaker, . Meridian Digital Heaven...etc. and Merit Audio.
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post #2416 of 3465 Old 04-15-2011, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Well I saw you added more to your comment, I found just the opposite as the panel used in the Vantage and the Electromotions and the Crossover are the same with the panel being smaller of course with the EMs. The Source for me lacked detail and bass, but then again it takes over 100+ hours to break a speaker in, room equipment factor in, etc... Must have been the fastest sale for your Electromotions as there is none on ebay right.

Frankly if you want warm and detailed the Dynaudio sound much better to me.

I took them off of ebay beucase I was getting low offers. If you know of somebody that wants a like new pair of EM please let me know. I would sell them for $1,700.00. plus shipping, unless they live local to me and can pick them up.

I have noticed that they do sound better at lower volume, but when I listen at mid-level volume is when I notice them getting bright and gritty. I have Marantz equipment that tends to be more laid back so maybe for whatever reason there is just a bad synergy between my equipment and the EM’s.
Thank you,
Adam
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post #2417 of 3465 Old 04-15-2011, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GOLFERADAM12 View Post

I took them off of ebay beucase I was getting low offers. If you know of somebody that wants a like new pair of EM please let me know. I would sell them for $1,700.00. plus shipping, unless they live local to me and can pick them up.

I have noticed that they do sound better at lower volume, but when I listen at mid-level volume is when I notice them getting bright and gritty. I have Marantz equipment that tends to be more laid back so maybe for whatever reason there is just a bad synergy between my equipment and the EM’s.
Thank you,
Adam

Adam,

As you can see I have owned many, many speakers over the years and no matter what I try I always go back to Dynaudio. I do however like the large soundstage the MLs put up, but I am using Musical Fidelity equipment with them with a very good Dac and Int. Amp so equipment match up is a must, but it all depends on what your listening to. I do have Marantz gear as well, but I haven't tried my MLs on my 7005 receiver yet. I worked at a high end store many years ago and my 3 favorite speakers are in this order:

Dynaudio
Joseph Audio
Martin Logan

There are plenty more that I like, but these stand out for me in different ways.
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post #2418 of 3465 Old 04-16-2011, 09:34 AM
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Thank you so much for you advice and input. I am still playing around with the EM's and I might try using a different receiver, I too am using the Marantz SR7005. I wish that I still had my B&K gear I think that would have been a better match?
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post #2419 of 3465 Old 04-16-2011, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFERADAM12 View Post

Thank you so much for you advice and input. I am still playing around with the EM's and I might try using a different receiver, I too am using the Marantz SR7005. I wish that I still had my B&K gear I think that would have been a better match?

I added a older Marantz Amp to my receiver and it made a huge difference. The Receiver is very good for what it does but the Amp section isn't like Marantz of old, meaning warmer sounding.
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post #2420 of 3465 Old 04-16-2011, 10:40 AM
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How do i add an image to my post?
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post #2421 of 3465 Old 04-16-2011, 11:51 AM
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How do i add an image to my post?

Go down to where it says "Manage" my post when you click on that it should bring up a pop up box and it allows you to add pictures in different ways.
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post #2422 of 3465 Old 04-16-2011, 01:47 PM
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This is quick image of my EM, I will try and ad more.
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post #2423 of 3465 Old 04-16-2011, 01:50 PM
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Here is a full shot of the pair of EM's in my theater room along with a Supercube 1 sub.
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post #2424 of 3465 Old 04-17-2011, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by GOLFERADAM12 View Post
Here is a full shot of the pair of EM's in my theater room along with a Supercube 1 sub.
Pretty sweet setup, I need to redo and paint my HT room, it was painted years ago by my wife and the colors for a HT it is horrible. My EMs sound pretty darn good in combo with my Musical Fidelity M6i Int Amp, and I am using there matching Dac so I am sure this helps it not sounding bright. Again I am using the 7005 with the older Marantz MM-9000 Amp, rated at 170 x 5,(manual) as I thought the Receiver was great on movies but bright on critical listening, but most of that is done with my MF gear.
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post #2425 of 3465 Old 04-17-2011, 05:31 AM
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Thanks! I am going to play around with different receivers, I am still within my 30 return policy at Vanns. I may try the Onkyo 3008 or go with a cheaper 708 with an addition of a two channel amp for the EM's...maybe a B&K or Adcom?

Good Day!
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post #2426 of 3465 Old 04-17-2011, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GOLFERADAM12 View Post

Thanks! I am going to play around with different receivers, I am still within my 30 return policy at Vanns. I may try the Onkyo 3008 or go with a cheaper 708 with an addition of a two channel amp for the EM's...maybe a B&K or Adcom?

Good Day!

I would go B&K over Adcom, you can find really good equipment on Audiogon. Like Musical Fidelity gear, and some good Int. Amps or Amp/Preamplifier setups. A good tube Preamplifier and Amp combo will make the MLs sing.
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post #2427 of 3465 Old 04-18-2011, 10:38 PM
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...Dynaudio attempts to "dress up" the way they tell you about the driver material (MSP - Magnesium Silicate Polymer) but that is essentially Polypropylene, lol...
Well I think tweeters and drivers using exotic materials do not necessarily guarantee good sound. Yes fabric dome tweeters and polyproylene drivers are nothing but ordinary, but they sound extraordinary. The best sounding speakers I have came across all use driver and tweeter materials that are not worth mentioning, but their sound is so memorable.

Many Chinese speakers tend to use exotic materials for the tweeters and drivers, yet they can hardly compare to the sound quality of the Dynaudio.
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post #2428 of 3465 Old 04-20-2011, 07:55 AM
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Well I think tweeters and drivers using exotic materials do not necessarily guarantee good sound. Yes fabric dome tweeters and polyproylene drivers are nothing but ordinary, but they sound extraordinary. The best sounding speakers I have came across all use driver and tweeter materials that are not worth mentioning, but their sound is so memorable.

Many Chinese speakers tend to use exotic materials for the tweeters and drivers, yet they can hardly compare to the sound quality of the Dynaudio.

And so can we conclude that the craftsmanship is what matters, regardless of materials?
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post #2429 of 3465 Old 04-20-2011, 10:22 AM
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And so can we conclude that the craftsmanship is what matters, regardless of materials?

Hello, company background, craftsmanship, technologies (backed by years of research) and materials do matter. But for materials, using expensive or exotic materials doesn't necessarily guarantee better sound quality. For example, gold is more expensive than copper and oxidizes more slowly than copper, but that doesn't make gold better than copper as speaker wires or power cords because gold has higher resistance. Gold is great for terminals and binding posts as they don't oxidize. So the wise application of the most suitable material to serve a particular purpose is what matters.
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post #2430 of 3465 Old 04-23-2011, 12:10 PM
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I just picked up 3 Def. Tech LCR 2002s

Bi-amped the front L/R channels with an Onkyo 608. Currently waiting for my center channel stand to arrive.
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