Calling all Polkies:Official Polk thread - Page 1297 - AVS Forum
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Skidoo23's Avatar Skidoo23 11:27 PM 06-16-2014
I have the denon x4000 that supports wides, I was wondering if the wides could be the a7 and the monitor 70. I'm not sure how matched they are and don't want to mess up the sound. Also I'd like some advice on setting up wides in a narrow room. The wides would have to be put closly to the mains, would this just defeat the purpose?

Tom Grooms's Avatar Tom Grooms 05:02 AM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidoo23 View Post
I have the denon x4000 that supports wides, I was wondering if the wides could be the a7 and the monitor 70. I'm not sure how matched they are and don't want to mess up the sound. Also I'd like some advice on setting up wides in a narrow room. The wides would have to be put closly to the mains, would this just defeat the purpose?
Yes, that would defeat the purpose. More is not better, it's just more. I see so many people on this forum trying to cram rear surrounds in a room with the couch on the back wall or trying to fit wides in a room with a 10-12 foot front wall. Save your money or use those funds to upgrade your main speakers. Gimmicky dsp channels are way overrated
enricoclaudio's Avatar enricoclaudio 06:46 AM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidoo23 View Post
I have the DSW 660wi, which is fantastic, and was wondering which speaker would be better to pair with it. Im willing to go with the a9's if I actually will hear a difference. I think my bass is cover with my sub. So i was wondering, paired with the sub should I go with the a7 or a9, it there a difference in the high or mids between the two or mostly bass?
The A9s are a bit better for music because the top (mid woofers and tweeter) is a sealed cabinet. But the A9s are not easy to drive, they are power hungry so most probably you will need an external amp to get the best out of them.
PretzelFisch's Avatar PretzelFisch 07:37 AM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The A9s are a bit better for music because the top (mid woofers and tweeter) is a sealed cabinet. But the A9s are not easy to drive, they are power hungry so most probably you will need an external amp to get the best out of them.
the a9 is also a big speaker which is why I never opted for getting them.
YDR05's Avatar YDR05 11:48 AM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidoo23 View Post
I have the denon x4000 that supports wides, I was wondering if the wides could be the a7 and the monitor 70. I'm not sure how matched they are and don't want to mess up the sound. Also I'd like some advice on setting up wides in a narrow room. The wides would have to be put closly to the mains, would this just defeat the purpose?

You could try bookshelf speakers from the series to match your mains. I have A1s with A5s as mains and the sound from the wides adds a lot to the front sound stage. I have a wide room though.


Also, the distance is not as important for the wides as much an angle of 60 degress from the MLP.
RobLee's Avatar RobLee 12:09 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidoo23 View Post
I have the DSW 660wi, which is fantastic, and was wondering which speaker would be better to pair with it. Im willing to go with the a9's if I actually will hear a difference. I think my bass is cover with my sub. So i was wondering, paired with the sub should I go with the a7 or a9, it there a difference in the high or mids between the two or mostly bass?
Most folks who have been regulars here much prefer the A9's to the A7's. I have all of the above, and can honestly say that the A9's project better than the A7's, due to the twin 5" midrange drivers. The A7 is basically the same as the A3 with the added two 7" bass drivers. The third 7" driver in the A9's let them go all that much deeper. Only drawback to the A9's is that they really do need to be powered by an external amp, not an AVR (some may disagree, most would agree).

BTW I use direct stereo mode on the A9's for music, without the subs. The built-in triple 7's produce nice, articulate bass. And I also have the DSW660wi paired with Lsi9's upstairs. The sub is decent but not all that great. Usually I leave it turned off as well.

Long and short, I'd say go with the A9's if you can afford a separate amp. Or you can do as I did, which is start with the A7's and eventually move up to A9's, moving the A7's to surround. Beware, the A9's will sound anemic if powered only by an AVR (again, some will disagree) but I can tell the difference. Your 660 sub will be fine for HT, but someday you may want to upgrade that as well. Good luck! and have fun!
Skidoo23's Avatar Skidoo23 12:20 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobLee View Post
Most folks who have been regulars here much prefer the A9's to the A7's. I have all of the above, and can honestly say that the A9's project better than the A7's, due to the twin 5" midrange drivers. The A7 is basically the same as the A3 with the added two 7" bass drivers. The third 7" driver in the A9's let them go all that much deeper. Only drawback to the A9's is that they really do need to be powered by an external amp, not an AVR (some may disagree, most would agree).

BTW I use direct stereo mode on the A9's for music, without the subs. The built-in triple 7's produce nice, articulate bass. And I also have the DSW660wi paired with Lsi9's upstairs. The sub is decent but not all that great. Usually I leave it turned off as well.

Long and short, I'd say go with the A9's if you can afford a separate amp. Or you can do as I did, which is start with the A7's and eventually move up to A9's, moving the A7's to surround. Beware, the A9's will sound anemic if powered only by an AVR (again, some will disagree) but I can tell the difference. Your 660 sub will be fine for HT, but someday you may want to upgrade that as well. Good luck! and have fun!
Thanks for the great reply, I have another question. You said that id need an external amp to power the a9's. Is this still true if I have the denon x4000. I know that has more power that other receivers but not sure if its still enough for the a9's without amp.
enricoclaudio's Avatar enricoclaudio 12:31 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidoo23 View Post
Thanks for the great reply, I have another question. You said that id need an external amp to power the a9's. Is this still true if I have the denon x4000. I know that has more power that other receivers but not sure if its still enough for the a9's without amp.
I have a Marantz SR7008, which is basically the same X4000 with more bells and whistles. Before upgrade to LSiM 705s I had A9s and I was driving them with a Emotiva XPA-3 because I felt that the Marantz wasn't enough. I still using the XPA-3 to drive the LSiM 705s. My advice is if you get the A9s then get an external amp most if you listen at reference levels.
Skidoo23's Avatar Skidoo23 12:39 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
I have a Marantz SR7008, which is basically the same X4000 with more bells and whistles. Before upgrade to LSiM 705s I had A9s and I was driving them with a Emotiva XPA-3 because I felt that the Marantz wasn't enough. I still using the XPA-3 to drive the LSiM 705s. My advice is if you get the A9s then get an external amp most if you listen at reference levels.
At the moment I dont really want/cant get an amp. So Should i either get the a9's use them with the denon x4000 and wait to get an amp, or just go for the a7's?
enricoclaudio's Avatar enricoclaudio 12:43 PM 06-17-2014
Get the A9s, you can add the amp later when funds come available. The important thing here is that you have a very good receiver with pre outs and good power, just not enough to drive properly the A9s. But hey they are gonna sound killer with the X4000 and much better when you add the external amp to your system.
RobLee's Avatar RobLee 12:59 PM 06-17-2014
I've been considering the X4000 as my next upgrade, mainly for the 9.2 capabilities, and being more affordable than the 4250. But even the 150wpc of the 4250 falls short of the "recommended" 200wpc minimum the A9's really need to come alive. As Enrico said, already having an AVR with pre-outs puts you halfway there. You can pick up a used amp for around $500 if you keep your eyes open. I recently scored an XPA2 on eBay and it's pretty much just sitting idle until we move when I'll have the room for 9.2

Oh BTW, if you get the A7's you'll always wonder what the A9's might have sounded like... and yes, they are that good!
Tom Grooms's Avatar Tom Grooms 01:28 PM 06-17-2014
Buy the A9's and don't worry about an amp yet. You may find you don't even need one at all unless you like the volume above -10db.
Skidoo23's Avatar Skidoo23 02:47 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Get the A9s, you can add the amp later when funds come available. The important thing here is that you have a very good receiver with pre outs and good power, just not enough to drive properly the A9s. But hey they are gonna sound killer with the X4000 and much better when you add the external amp to your system.
Well then I'll get the a9's. I just want to make sure that even without an amp they will spound better than my monitor 70's. Which I'm sure they will. But what does getting an amp actually do? Will it just allow me to turn them up louder?
enricoclaudio's Avatar enricoclaudio 03:37 PM 06-17-2014
Like Tom said, if you listen below -10dB, then you may don't need an external amp. But if you listen above -10dB which is not even close to reference levels then get an external amp. What is gonna happens if you get the A9s and you try to listen at reference levels (0dB) without an external amp? Worst case scenario your receiver is gonna shutdown and goes into protection mode.
Skidoo23's Avatar Skidoo23 05:57 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Like Tom said, if you listen below -10dB, then you may don't need an external amp. But if you listen above -10dB which is not even close to reference levels then get an external amp. What is gonna happens if you get the A9s and you try to listen at reference levels (0dB) without an external amp? Worst case scenario your receiver is gonna shutdown and goes into protection mode.
I don't think I've gotten close to 0 with my monitors.
RobLee's Avatar RobLee 06:03 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidoo23 View Post
Well then I'll get the a9's. I just want to make sure that even without an amp they will sound better than my monitor 70's. Which I'm sure they will. But what does getting an amp actually do? Will it just allow me to turn them up louder?
What happens is is the speakers can draw more power than the amp can provide. And the problem with an AVR is not actually the amplifiers in it, but the common power supply that powers all channels. The PS is usually pared back to cut down on both cost and weight.

The problem happens with multi element speakers that will have two or more drivers active at some frequency range. If you do someday get an external amp, and you still happen to have your M70's you might be surprised how great the M70's will sound with more power. But the A9's, or even the A7's, will sound much clearer than the Monitors.
Skidoo23's Avatar Skidoo23 06:06 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Like Tom said, if you listen below -10dB, then you may don't need an external amp. But if you listen above -10dB which is not even close to reference levels then get an external amp. What is gonna happens if you get the A9s and you try to listen at reference levels (0dB) without an external amp? Worst case scenario your receiver is gonna shutdown and goes into protection mode.

I don't think I've gotten to 0 when using my monitors. Is running the a9 without an amp kinda like the a7's then? I just want to make sure that the a9 will sound good until I can get an amp.
climber07's Avatar climber07 06:30 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidoo23 View Post
I don't think I've gotten to 0 when using my monitors. Is running the a9 without an amp kinda like the a7's then? I just want to make sure that the a9 will sound good until I can get an amp.
You won't notice any difference between the A9 on an AVR versus a dedicated amp until you start approaching reference level. Especially if you have the crossovers set to 80Hz on the mains. RTiA9s will sound great unless you push them really hard with music (-10dB or so) or are playing ultra-powerful content on movies at high volumes. If you were to listen in pure 2.0 stereo mode (full range) then you are going to start to notice a bigger difference with an amp even at moderate volume levels due to the A9s reproducing low bass at the cost of power.

Playing my RTiA9s on an Onkyo NR3009 and on an Emotiva XPA-2 I noticed no difference sonically until I started getting to around -20 dB on the volume.
Skidoo23's Avatar Skidoo23 08:45 PM 06-17-2014
So i've decided i'm going to get the polk a9's. I will have 2 left over monitor 70's and was thinking maybe I would use for 6.1 setup. The only reason I cant do a 7.1 is I don't have enough room, as you can see in the photos. My current rears are the FXi a6's. The monitor would go behind the couch. My main question is, is it worth it, and would the sound not be so great? the monitors are not perfectly matched to the FXi's. Also would the 6.1 work with the monitor being only about a foot behind the listening position.
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enricoclaudio's Avatar enricoclaudio 09:06 PM 06-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidoo23 View Post
So i've decided i'm going to get the polk a9's. I will have 2 left over monitor 70's and was thinking maybe I would use for 6.1 setup. The only reason I cant do a 7.1 is I don't have enough room, as you can see in the photos. My current rears are the FXi a6's. The monitor would go behind the couch. My main question is, is it worth it, and would the sound not be so great? the monitors are not perfectly matched to the FXi's. Also would the 6.1 work with the monitor being only about a foot behind the listening position.
In that room you would be better putting on sale the Monitors 70 and the CS2 and get a CSi A6 and the A9s. Also if you don't have the plan to get the external amp it's better if you stay in a 5.1 setup so you don't need to take power out of the X4000 to drive one or two extra speakers. The 125 watts per channel on the X4000 is with two channels driven, not with 5 or 7.
AlphaPie's Avatar AlphaPie 12:23 PM 06-18-2014
I've been to -0 with my monitors many times with denon and pionner elites, I noticed that Audyssey had them turned down by -5.5, so you may check to see how far the EQ has turned down each channel before you go above -10.0, you may find adjusting their trim will get you the desired volume while staying clear of clipping volume.
67jason's Avatar 67jason 12:36 PM 06-18-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaPie View Post
I've been to -0 with my monitors many times with denon and pionner elites, I noticed that Audyssey had them turned down by -5.5, so you may check to see how far the EQ has turned down each channel before you go above -10.0, you may find adjusting their trim will get you the desired volume while staying clear of clipping volume.
I don't disagree, but I was at -17 and a gunshot in the movie book of eli blew a tweeter in one of my monitor 70's. That was the second blown tweeter and when I decided to get an amp. Clipping kills drivers, and too little power aids in increasing chances of clipping.
AlphaPie's Avatar AlphaPie 12:47 PM 06-18-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post
I don't disagree, but I was at -17 and a gunshot in the movie book of eli blew a tweeter in one of my monitor 70's. That was the second blown tweeter and when I decided to get an amp. Clipping kills drivers, and too little power aids in increasing chances of clipping.
From what I gather, the lack of sensitivity coupled with the, well, inexpensive crossover used in the monitor series makes it a difficult speaker to drive with clarity to reference without an amp. I'm about to try my inuke around 300 watts with my 75t, even with the build in DSP I doubt I'll find an enormity of clarity.
viper186's Avatar viper186 02:04 PM 06-18-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post
I don't disagree, but I was at -17 and a gunshot in the movie book of eli blew a tweeter in one of my monitor 70's. That was the second blown tweeter and when I decided to get an amp. Clipping kills drivers, and too little power aids in increasing chances of clipping.
I remember when I had 50's I would try reference for a bit, -15 to 0, never had any problems. I can imagine 70's are a different story though.
BNestico's Avatar BNestico 05:29 PM 06-18-2014
Hi guys,
My RTi8's showed yesterday and I hooked them up and I'm a big fan, I haven't watched a movie with the yet but I listened to some music with them and I fell like I can hear some bass guitar parts better than I could with the RTi6's (which have been moved to surround duty) even with my two SVS's. Also, have any of you guys taken off/not put on the big spiked feet that come with the RTi8/10/12's? I didn't put them on mine cause I think they look rediculous. I did put the other piece on though, the wide plastic part they screw into.
bumprunlogan's Avatar bumprunlogan 08:11 PM 06-18-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BNestico View Post
Hi guys,
My RTi8's showed yesterday and I hooked them up and I'm a big fan, I haven't watched a movie with the yet but I listened to some music with them and I fell like I can hear some bass guitar parts better than I could with the RTi6's (which have been moved to surround duty) even with my two SVS's. Also, have any of you guys taken off/not put on the big spiked feet that come with the RTi8/10/12's? I didn't put them on mine cause I think they look rediculous. I did put the other piece on though, the wide plastic part they screw into.

I have the rti 8's and hardwood floors and installed the feet that came with them. To me not installing the feet would look like they would become unstable and maybe wobble not to mention get scratched on the bottom so for me the feet is choice.
BNestico's Avatar BNestico 08:53 PM 06-18-2014
My floors are hardwood too and they're not unstable without the feet. I might get some round felt pads to put where the feet would screw into the plastic outriggers. I woulda put them on and forgot about it if my wife hadn't walked in as I was screwing them in and said "you're batshit crazy if you think you're putting those ugly-ass spikes on the bottom of those speakers!"
bumprunlogan's Avatar bumprunlogan 07:50 AM 06-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BNestico View Post
My floors are hardwood too and they're not unstable without the feet. I might get some round felt pads to put where the feet would screw into the plastic outriggers. I woulda put them on and forgot about it if my wife hadn't walked in as I was screwing them in and said "you're batshit crazy if you think you're putting those ugly-ass spikes on the bottom of those speakers!"

You'd be surprised at how much more stable the speakers get with the spikes on them. I'm cheap and I use the foam that came with another pair of speakers. I cut out the foam into feet and sit the spikes on them for a cushion and it's ultra stable from there and is soft on my floor to boot.

But check a few pages back this subject came up and there are some products you can buy that will provide more cushion.
mr266's Avatar mr266 08:01 AM 06-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BNestico View Post
Hi guys,
My RTi8's showed yesterday and I hooked them up and I'm a big fan, I haven't watched a movie with the yet but I listened to some music with them and I fell like I can hear some bass guitar parts better than I could with the RTi6's (which have been moved to surround duty) even with my two SVS's. Also, have any of you guys taken off/not put on the big spiked feet that come with the RTi8/10/12's? I didn't put them on mine cause I think they look rediculous. I did put the other piece on though, the wide plastic part they screw into.
Glad to see you're diggin' those 8's. I think they're outstanding and really bring music to life.
AlphaPie's Avatar AlphaPie 03:19 PM 06-19-2014
I just sold my marty sub in its massive box. The guy came to pick it up and was completely unprepared for the size. Waiting to receive funds for the amp from a member and I'll be bassless... Now all I have are 3 polk subs fml
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