**Official RBH Owner's Thread** - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 562 Old 11-23-2014, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by avguru99 View Post
Hi guys,

I was wondering if any RBH owners are using their SX-61/R speakers for a 2 channel system. Will hopefully be powered by a Marantz PM6005 or PM8005.

I know that there is that audioholics review but I'm hoping for a couple other points of view.

Thanks.


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I would certainly put the SX-61 up against any other high-end bookshelf speaker out there including Revel, KEF, B&W, Dynaudio, Focal, etc.

They would sound great used with a pair of great subwoofers.
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post #542 of 562 Old 11-24-2014, 08:57 PM
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Thanks AcuDefTechGuy, it seems that reviews for some products are hard to come by hence the request for personal experiences.


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post #543 of 562 Old 11-25-2014, 07:57 AM
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Thanks AcuDefTechGuy, it seems that reviews for some products are hard to come by hence the request for personal experiences.

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Very true. Of course, with the exception of a very few, practically all "reviews" are pure subjective opinions just like everyone else.

Each speaker company has its philosophy and all their speakers are made with that philosophy.

RBH makes speakers that measure accurately OBJECTIVELY and sound great subjectively.
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post #544 of 562 Old 11-25-2014, 08:01 AM
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I guess I should subscribe to this thread since I technically own RBH speakers now

Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12
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post #545 of 562 Old 11-25-2014, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
I guess I should subscribe to this thread since I technically own RBH speakers now
Yes.

RBH also makes Status Acoustics and EMP speakers.

I was willing to sell all my speakers including Revel Salon2, B&W 802D2, KEF Reference 201/2, Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1, Philharmonic 3, Dynaudio X32, Focal 826V, TAD 2201, ATC SCM7, Funk 18.0 subs, Rythmik D15SE subs, etc., for RBH speakers. And I am completely happy.
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post #546 of 562 Old 11-25-2014, 08:10 AM
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That is definitely saying something, I hope to hear some of their high end offerings one day, and eventually own some.

Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12
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post #547 of 562 Old 11-25-2014, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by avguru99 View Post
Thanks AcuDefTechGuy, it seems that reviews for some products are hard to come by hence the request for personal experiences.


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I own 661SE's and SI-760's. The 661SE's are just about the same speaker. As stated, paired with a good subwoofer or two, would make for a nice two channel book shelf system. If you have any questions, give us a call, as an owner and dealer, I would be happy to answer your questions.

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post #548 of 562 Old 11-25-2014, 11:45 AM
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Thanks for the info. I've narrowed the speaker selection down to the RBHs and Triad's Inroom Gold MiniMonitors or their Inroom Omni Se. Any thoughts/comments on the Triad speakers? Will try to scour the web for more feedback.

Thanks again


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post #549 of 562 Old 11-25-2014, 05:35 PM
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I have the signature T2 for front center and left and right. They sound great, but the subs in the T2 are not as good as they could be
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post #550 of 562 Old 11-25-2014, 07:36 PM
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I have the signature T2 for front center and left and right. They sound great, but the subs in the T2 are not as good as they could be
How are you powering the subs in your T2s?

ACTIVELY powering them with external amps using LFE signal from your pre-pro?

Or just PASSIVELY?

If actively, are you using something like Audyssey subwoofer EQ and Dynamic EQ?

The subs in my T2s give me everything I ever want in the subwoofer/bass department.

The bass is incredibly tight and musical.

And I've heard subs from Funk 18.0 to Rythmik D15SE to SVS 13Ultra to JL Audio F113 to B&W DB1.

And I've heard/owned bass from Revel Salon2, B&W 802D2, Linkwitz Orion, Philharmonic 3.
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post #551 of 562 Old 11-25-2014, 10:31 PM
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They are powered by the rbh amp that came with it. They have good bass, but my room is open so I think I need more bass. I have audyssey 32 with the denon x4000. Using lfe.
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post #552 of 562 Old 11-26-2014, 06:38 AM
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They are powered by the rbh amp that came with it. They have good bass, but my room is open so I think I need more bass. I have audyssey 32 with the denon x4000. Using lfe.
Do you have Dynamic EQ turned on and Dynamic Volume turned off?

How big is your room?

I've had a pair of T2 in my family room that is 18' x 20' x 12' open to 3 sides. And the bass is tremendous.

I've also had a pair of Funk 18.0 subs, and I definitely don't feel anything is missing with the bass of the T2s.

But I suppose every room is different, thus the saying YMMV.
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post #553 of 562 Old 11-26-2014, 04:39 PM
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I'm not sure. I just got the denon. I'll have to check it out. I ran the audyssey and that's about it. Should I have on the volume eq?
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post #554 of 562 Old 11-26-2014, 09:52 PM
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I'm not sure. I just got the denon. I'll have to check it out. I ran the audyssey and that's about it. Should I have on the volume eq?
Turn off Dynamic Volume. Make sure Dynamic EQ is turned on.

Audyssey is just a starting point to me. I think Audyssey sets the bass way too low for one thing. I usually manually adjust a few things like XO and speaker & subs levels. After you make sure Dynamic EQ is in fact on, try increasing the level of the 1010 subwoofers.

If you still can't get the 1010 subs to sound dynamic and punchy, also do what I do.

Pretty much all the home automation (like Audyssey, ARC, Dirac, Trinnov) set every speaker and sub to 75dB. In contrast, professional theaters set every speaker and sub to 85dB. So I go for in-between and set everything to 80dB.

But again, the bass level (the 1010) is highly subjective. You may increase the sub levels by 3dB or 6dB if necessary.
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post #555 of 562 Old 11-26-2014, 10:37 PM
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What do you have the phase and the speaker level set at on the 1010?
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post #556 of 562 Old 11-27-2014, 07:08 AM
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What do you have the phase and the speaker level set at on the 1010?
I use my own amp for the 1010s, not a sub amp. I use the ATI AT3005 amp.

So I suppose the equivalent phase would be zero and level would be 100%. I use the Denon Speaker Channel Level to control the levels.

Audyssey sets all channel levels to 75dB. So manually increasing all levels by 5dB also gets me to 80dB. I use my digital Galaxy SPL meter to confirm.

Then I make sure Dynamic volume is off, Dynamic EQ is on. I actually use the Audyssey Bypass L/R setting, instead of Audyssey or Audyssey Flat. This bypasses Audyssey for the main front speakers, but still EQ the subs and apply Dynamic EQ.

I can use my iPad Denon remote app to manually adjust the sub channel level to suit my preference. If I think the bass is too much, I turn the level down. If too little, I turn the level up.
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post #557 of 562 Old Today, 12:08 AM
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Black Friday beguiled me and the temptress that was the Sammy 75" at Costco did me in. Now I've got the itch to re-do the speakers and fiddle with the rest of my home theater.

I've been using a MC-616C LCR set up for the last 10 years. I've got a couple in-wall MC-6 and a MS 10.1 sub to complete the 5.1 set up. It's been pretty solid over the years based on what I paid. I find the MC to produce a nice warm sound with emphasis in the mid range. They fall short in the upper range - not bad per se, but they just don't have the clarity and detail that I like. I'm powering them with a Pioneer SC-05.

I'm looking to add some life to my system. I've got several maybes going on in my head. Perhaps moving the MC-6 in walls to the ceiling and replacing the sides with MC-6DB for a 7.1 set up. I've been kicking around the idea of a new sub - SVS SB-2000 perhaps. I've fiddled with that MS 10.1 for a long time - it's a fairly solid sub, but I'm looking for something with a quicker response, more accurate decay and a stronger, more explosive attack.

I'm also looking at Signature classic/r series. I've seen some deals over the years here and there. I'm kind of a bang for the buck kind of guy - will the price difference of the Signature series justify the difference in sound quality over the MC speakers?

Thanks for any input.
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post #558 of 562 Old Today, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by tlguapo View Post

I've been kicking around the idea of a new sub - SVS SB-2000 perhaps. I've fiddled with that MS 10.1 for a long time - it's a fairly solid sub, but I'm looking for something with a quicker response, more accurate decay and a stronger, more explosive attack.

I'm also looking at Signature classic/r series. I've seen some deals over the years here and there. I'm kind of a bang for the buck kind of guy - will the price difference of the Signature series justify the difference in sound quality over the MC speakers?
The SVS SB2000 has a single 12" woofer (113 sq. in. area) and cabinet of about 3,500 cubic in, 35 LBS.

The MS-10.1 has dual 10" woofers (157 sq. in. area) and cabinet of about 5,000 cubic in, 45 LBS.

And I highly doubt the SB2000 has higher quality (accurate, quicker response) driver than the RBH.

So based on these info, I don't see how the SB2000 would have any advantages over the RBH, except the SB2000 should go lower in frequency to 20Hz. But in terms of average output from the most important region of 30Hz-80Hz, the RBH should have more output and maybe more accuracy.

With that said, I believe SVS does offer a good return policy so you could always try and see for yourself.

Regarding upgrading to higher end models - the Signature or the Signature Reference - of course there will be improvement in material, accuracy, dynamics, output, etc. And whether you ask RBH, Revel, B&W, KEF, or any other company, they will ALL say the SAME EXACT thing - of course you will hear improvement.

But are these improvements OBJECTIVELY significant or just very SUBJECTIVELY significant as in most non-blinded biased cases?

When you inject the increased cost or improved cosmetics or better specification (subs going down to 19Hz vs 27Hz, etc.), people will automatically believe there will be significant improvement. But reality is another matter. And only you should be the judge.

In terms of deals, you should be able to find deals on RBH @ 25% off MSRP or more depending on your total purchase from your local dealers. Send me a PM if you need help.
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post #559 of 562 Old Today, 08:52 AM
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And I highly doubt the SB2000 has higher quality (accurate, quicker response) driver than the RBH.
What leads you to believe that?

I believe the SVS uses a custom version of the Peerless XLS driver... so it uses a very good driver.

It appears the RBH uses a stamped steel frame driver...



Here's a review of the MS-10.1 with measurements...
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-4-2004.html

It has some peakiness in the 75Hz range... so in terms of who has the flattest response, I think it'd be the SB2000.
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post #560 of 562 Old Today, 10:15 AM
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What leads you to believe that?

I believe the SVS uses a custom version of the Peerless XLS driver... so it uses a very good driver.

It appears the RBH uses a stamped steel frame driver...



Here's a review of the MS-10.1 with measurements...
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-4-2004.html

It has some peakiness in the 75Hz range... so in terms of who has the flattest response, I think it'd be the SB2000.
My speculation on the quality of the drivers is based on the fact that RBH makes their own aluminum woofers, which are used in both their subwoofers and loudspeakers.

Where does it say the SB2000 uses a Peerless driver?

RBH makes their own in-house aluminum woofers like most big B&M companies. Even if the SVS uses a Peerless driver, there is no proof that it is better than the in-house RBH aluminum driver.

Having said that, we are taking about $800 MSRP subwoofers where the built-in amp alone is probably $400 MSRP.

Regarding the comparison of measurements, they were NOT measured at the same location using the same system, equipment, software, technique, standards, etc.

In the end, it is about the actual sound integration of the subwoofer and the system. There is no guarantee that a $800 MSRP SVS sub will sound better than a $800 MSRP RBH sub.

Keep in mind that a $800 MSRP sub from RBH or any other B&M company means a street price of about $500, not $800.
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post #561 of 562 Old Today, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
My speculation on the quality of the drivers is based on the fact that RBH makes their own aluminum woofers, which are used in both their subwoofers and loudspeakers.

Where does it say the SB2000 uses a Peerless driver?

RBH makes their own in-house aluminum woofers like most big B&M companies. Even if the SVS uses a Peerless driver, there is no proof that it is better than the in-house RBH aluminum driver.

Having said that, we are taking about $800 MSRP subwoofers where the built-in amp alone is probably $400 MSRP.

Regarding the comparison of measurements, they were NOT measured at the same location using the same system, equipment, software, technique, standards, etc.

In the end, it is about the actual sound integration of the subwoofer and the system. There is no guarantee that a $800 MSRP SVS sub will sound better than a $800 MSRP RBH sub.

Keep in mind that a $800 MSRP sub from RBH or any other B&M company means a street price of about $500, not $800.
I might have been off about the SB-2000... Ed Mullen stated at Audioholics that the SB12-NSD/PB12-NSD used a Peerless XXLS (not XLS, so even better driver) with customized cone and voice coil. The SB-2000/PB-2000 seems to be a newly designed driver, but clearly built on the existing frame of the XXLS. Not sure how similar they are beyond that.

In any case, the XXLS is a very good driver, and if the 2000 series driver is of similar quality or an improvement on that, then it's very good as well.

While RBH may make their driver in house they still need to make concessions to hit their price point (as you alluded to), and it's clear they did when you look at the stamped steel frame and magnet structure.

I'm not saying it's not a good sub altogether... nor any I saying the SVS will absolutely be better... But you stated you highly doubt the SVS has a higher quality woofer without giving a reason for that statement.

I'm just pointing out that the SVS has been using high quality woofers based on a very good Peerless design... And when you look at the SB-2000 woofer compared to the RBH driver, I think it's clear which is the higher build quality driver. Only measurements will show which performs better, but the SVS subs repeatedly perform very well in third party measurements.

We both agree - whether one sub is better than the other for an individual is going to be based on that persons needs...
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post #562 of 562 Old Today, 11:08 AM
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I might have been off about the SB-2000... Ed Mullen stated at Audioholics that the SB12-NSD/PB12-NSD used a Peerless XXLS (not XLS, so even better driver) with customized cone and voice coil. The SB-2000/PB-2000 seems to be a newly designed driver, but clearly built on the existing frame of the XXLS. Not sure how similar they are beyond that.

In any case, the XXLS is a very good driver, and if the 2000 series driver is of similar quality or an improvement on that, then it's very good as well.

While RBH may make their driver in house they still need to make concessions to hit their price point (as you alluded to), and it's clear they did when you look at the stamped steel frame and magnet structure.

I'm not saying it's not a good sub altogether... nor any I saying the SVS will absolutely be better... But you stated you highly doubt the SVS has a higher quality woofer without giving a reason for that statement.

I'm just pointing out that the SVS has been using high quality woofers based on a very good Peerless design... And when you look at the SB-2000 woofer compared to the RBH driver, I think it's clear which is the higher build quality driver. Only measurements will show which performs better, but the SVS subs repeatedly perform very well in third party measurements.

We both agree - whether one sub is better than the other for an individual is going to be based on that persons needs...
That seems like a fair assessment.

I do tend to generalize that in-house B&M drivers are of better or at least as good a quality as aftermarket.

There is always the argument that ID brands are more economical or better value, meaning they may have better parts given the same price. But most often people can get big discounts on B&M products. So a $1450 MSRP RBH SX-1212N (brother to the $5300 RBH SX-1212P/R) is more like $1K actual street price.

The RBH SX-1010N's street price is more like $800, and the SX-1010N is the bass cabinet of the RBH T2 flagship speaker towers.

Anyway, I just don't think going from a dual 10" RBH 5,000 cubic inch 157 square inch surface area sub to a single 12" SVS 3,500 cubic inch 113 square inch surface area sub is going to do a whole lot.
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