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post #4621 of 6837 Old 11-03-2010, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post
This question is directed to Monkuboy:

Monkuboy, you have the OMD Mirage speaker selection that I am considering buying (15's, 5's, C!). I currently own a complete set of Polk Audio Lsi's (Lsi9's, FX's, C). Although I love the sound of the Polks they are almost too directional for me. You really have to be right in the sweet spot to hear them best. Also, because they are 4ohm speakers, it takes some power to push them. Most that own them say that they sound the best when biamping which would necessitate the expense of purchasing two separate power amps.

Recently, I purchased a set of the Mirage Nanosats.....and wow! Now I am interested in pursuing the OMD's like you have. My thinking is that the OMD's will sound even better than the Nanosats, and and the OMD-15's may get somewhere near the bass response that the Lsi9's have. Also, they may need less power being at 6ohms.

What I would like to know is what speakers did you previously have, and now that you have the OMD's are they all that you want them to be.....is there any critisims? Now that you have had them for a while is there ever any thoughts about going back to a conventional type speaker? What about the fidelity on these? From lows to highs are you pretty satisfied with the sound? Everyone talks mostly about the omnipolar sound without as much talk on the actual fidelity.

Thanks in advance,

Devlon
Well I've actually had several speakers during the past couple of years (people think I have a crazy speaker obsession). I originally had Rocket ELT's (3 of their center channels across the front and the smaller ones for surrounds). Then I was looking at Swans speakers and decided I would get the D2.1se's for the fronts, and at that time the matching center and surrounds were supposed to be a month or two away from release. I kept the ELT center and surrounds but they didn't blend very well. Since the matching Swans kept getting delayed I finally gave up and bought some Emotiva speakers - 2 of the 6.2's for the fronts, a 6.3 for the center and ERM-1's for the surrounds. I figured I would sell the Swans but couldn't find a buyer which is just as well because they really are too nice to sell. Then because the Emo 6.3 didn't match very well with the other speakers as far as timbre, I sold that and replaced it with another 6.2 so I had the same speakers across the front. Soon after, I did the Skiing Ninja crossover upgrade on the 3 6.2's across the front. Then.. I replaced everything again! This time with Hsu HB-1 Mk 2's all around. I thought I was pretty happy with those until I happened to read about the OMD's being on sale at Vanns and the more I read about them the more I figured I should buy them so that's what I did, which brings me to today..

Soundwise: The Rockets are decidedly the least of the speakers I've had in recent times.

The Swans D2.1se's are excellent speakers. I am amazed at what good bass response they have - very tight, visceral bass (you can feel the pluck of a string bass), no boominess whatsoever. They have very good balance and are beautiful, too. The shortcomings are the rear port makes them kind of fussy about placement (they have to be quite a bit away from the wall) and also, they are not real efficient so you need a powerful amp to drive them properly.

I thought the Emo's were on the bright side (the 6.2's and ERM-1). The 6.3 sounds more like the Swans than the other Emo speakers. The Ninja upgrade made them sound better but they were still a bit too bright for my tastes. For example, cymbals come off as being overly bright, if you ask me. They're really efficient speakers and can play loud, and also the build quality is very good. Emo doesn't skimp on any of the parts, even the screws. Unfortunately the flat black finish isn't the most fancy look, but I still like them.

Then I visited the Hsu headquarters and listened to the HB-1 Mk 2's and ended up buying 5 of them that day. Pete Hsu is a great guy - he let me play a bunch of tracks from CD's, explained things, and basically was a great host. The Hsu's are amazing for the price and personally I like them a bit better than the Emo's. While they have horns, they are not at all harsh and don't sound like horns. They have a nice balance. The negatives is that they do have a somewhat boxy sound on some recordings.

So now, the Mirage speakers: One thing I noticed is that they are all very well matched timbre-wise. And you don't have to sit in one place for a sweet spot. You can walk around the room and they sound good no matter where you are; this doesn't mean you can't localize the instruments or vocals - they still do this very well. Personally I think they do better with a sub. Music sounds great on them but when I add the sub (Hsu VTF 2 Mk 3), it adds the kick that is missing from the very bottom of the OMD 15's. Aside from that low bass, the 15's produce the rest of the spectrum very well. I'd say they are faithful. The center and the 5's do an excellent job as well but they are just lacking in the bass section. What I get from them is an open, natural sound and there is no notion of sound coming from boxes. I can't say that about the other speakers I've had. I wouldn't characterize them as boxy sounding (the others) but on the other hand, I knew I was listening to speakers in a box, if that makes any sense. The OMD's do not give that impression.

The Swans have a much tighter, analytical-type sound to them, with instruments and vocals being very well defined. The Emo's sound, well, looser I guess. They are brighter but lack bass. You definitely need a sub with them. With a good sub, they put out a very lively sound. The Hsu's are sort of inbetween the Emo's and Swans. I feel very fortunate to have had all these speakers (in fact I still have the Swans in a 2 channel setup and the Hsu's are in the garage). But, if I were to choose which ones I feel are the best overall, it would be the OMD's. I am very satisfied but like I said, I do think they are better with a good sub. In my opinion they do have very good fidelity. The C1 is really clear with dialog. Even with the omnipolar setup, I have no trouble at all discerning what is being said. All of the speakers are the same way. I give a big thumbs up all around on these speakers - sound, looks, build quality and fidelity.

That said, there are other speakers I am curious about, but they cost a lot more than the OMD's so I will just remain curious about them. Gee, sorry to write so much. I hope that was helpful.

Oh also, I am driving the fronts with an Emo XPA-2 and the center and surrounds with an XPA-3. The speakers can play plenty loud and the amps don't break a sweat. They are pretty easy to drive. The center seems more efficient than the other ones.

(hope I didn't put you to sleep..)
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post #4622 of 6837 Old 11-04-2010, 04:05 AM
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Great post.

I'd kind of forgotten about how this is one of the things I like most about Mirage speakers. It's good to be reminded:
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkuboy View Post

What I get from them is an open, natural sound and there is no notion of sound coming from boxes. I can't say that about the other speakers I've had. I wouldn't characterize them as boxy sounding (the others) but on the other hand, I knew I was listening to speakers in a box, if that makes any sense. The OMD's do not give that impression.

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post #4623 of 6837 Old 11-04-2010, 06:43 AM
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... (people think I have a crazy speaker obsession).

I wonder why they think that ...

Great summary. Enjoyed it!

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post #4624 of 6837 Old 11-04-2010, 07:10 AM
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Wow, thanks for all the info! Appreciate it! Very Informative. I have been on a witch hunt as well over the last couple years for some really decent speakers in a price range I could afford. I wanted better than what the big box stores carried, so it necessitated me buying speakers....trying them out.....selling speakers....buying speakers,etc.,etc. as I would read reviews on different ones that interested me. Right now, as I mentioned, I am using Polk Audio LSI series which are compared to speakers 2-3 times as expensive. Their ring radiator tweeter is usually only found in $10,000 plus speakers like the Krells. I also have at home here a complete surround set of Wharfedale Diamond 9.6 towers, center and surrounds. The towers are really large....too big, and is the only reason I'm selling them. Amazing sound for the money though. First speakers I ever heard that did not need a sub. I also have a set for Crate PE 126's. 2.5 system speakers....great sound with fat lows and strong mids...but maybe just a little weak on the highs. I keep telling myself with each audio purchase this is the last, but I'm a speaker addict I guess and I just keep ordering, LOL!

Anyway, thanks again for all your info. I did want to ask want preamp you are using with Emotiva power amps? I am considering my first in to the "separates world", and I'm considering Emotiva power amps and their UMC-1 processor. I have a HK AVR 354, and understand I can use the preamp section of it to run the Emotivas, but I don't know if this is as good as having a stand alone processor. Did you notice a difference in sound when you went from a self powered AVR to separate power amps? On many reviews I have read on the Polk LSI's say that they sound even more stunning using separates and biamping. So, before I sell them I will probably order the Mirage OMD's like yours and compare them side by side with all of the PolKs biamped, and with the OMD-15 biamped when I try the Mirages.

Appreciatively,

Devlon
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post #4625 of 6837 Old 11-04-2010, 07:30 AM
 
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Islandman I would not recommend Emotiva amps at all. If you want to move to separates do it the right way and don't cheap out by getting Emo gear. There are so many other budget amplifier options out there instead. I am still absolutely astonished by how many get suckered in by their pricing model. You definitely get what you pay for with the Emo stuff (amps). Just my opinion of course but I'd keep the HK receiver and do some more research before you waste your money.
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post #4626 of 6837 Old 11-04-2010, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

Wow, thanks for all the info! Appreciate it! Very Informative. I have been on a witch hunt as well over the last couple years for some really decent speakers in a price range I could afford. I wanted better than what the big box stores carried, so it necessitated me buying speakers....trying them out.....selling speakers....buying speakers,etc.,etc. as I would read reviews on different ones that interested me. Right now, as I mentioned, I am using Polk Audio LSI series which are compared to speakers 2-3 times as expensive. Their ring radiator tweeter is usually only found in $10,000 plus speakers like the Krells. I also have at home here a complete surround set of Wharfedale Diamond 9.6 towers, center and surrounds. The towers are really large....too big, and is the only reason I'm selling them. Amazing sound for the money though. First speakers I ever heard that did not need a sub. I also have a set for Crate PE 126's. 2.5 system speakers....great sound with fat lows and strong mids...but maybe just a little weak on the highs. I keep telling myself with each audio purchase this is the last, but I'm a speaker addict I guess and I just keep ordering, LOL!

Anyway, thanks again for all your info. I did want to ask want preamp you are using with Emotiva power amps? I am considering my first in to the "separates world", and I'm considering Emotiva power amps and their UMC-1 processor. I have a HK AVR 354, and understand I can use the preamp section of it to run the Emotivas, but I don't know if this is as good as having a stand alone processor. Did you notice a difference in sound when you went from a self powered AVR to separate power amps? On many reviews I have read on the Polk LSI's say that they sound even more stunning using separates and biamping. So, before I sell them I will probably order the Mirage OMD's like yours and compare them side by side with all of the PolKs biamped, and with the OMD-15 biamped when I try the Mirages.

Appreciatively,

Devlon

I am using an Emotiva USP-1 for the preamp when in 2-channel mode. I also have a UMC-1 for HT use. When in HT the signal from the UMC-1 is passed through the USP-1 and the USP-1 has no effect on it. As for the UMC-1, I am happy with mine but I don't have a lot of things hooked up to it. In fact, I just have an Oppo BDP83 connected and play blu ray, DVD's and SACD's using that. The recent firmware upgrades seem to have corrected most, if not all of the problems that were plaguing the UMC-1 and while I am happy with mine, I guess my advice would be if you have a lot of different devices connected to it, then I am not so sure it is the right pre/pro to use. I would take advantage of their 30 day trial and test it out.

I do notice a difference between the Onkyo 706 AVR that I was previously using, versus switching to the Emotiva amps. It seems a lot more effortless, like the power and dynamics are there with the separate amps, than with the Onkyo AVR. In terms of the actual sound (like the tone of the instruments, voices, soundstage, etc.), since I didn't A/B them rapidly, I can't say for sure but it just seems like the music really opens up with the separate amps.

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Originally Posted by shodulik View Post

Islandman I would not recommend Emotiva amps at all. If you want to move to separates do it the right way and don't cheap out by getting Emo gear. There are so many other budget amplifier options out there instead. I am still absolutely astonished by how many get suckered in by their pricing model. You definitely get what you pay for with the Emo stuff (amps). Just my opinion of course but I'd keep the HK receiver and do some more research before you waste your money.

Well I've read your anti-Emo posts in other threads and all I can say is I am totally happy with my amps and so are a lot of other Emo owners. My amps are built like tanks and I see nothing cheap in the way they are made. That's my opinion, of course, but what I would also like to say is that price is not always indicative of quality or the actual cost of the product. An example of this is the Oppo in the box (can't remember the other company's name right now) that sells for 7x what the Oppo does but is exactly the same unit inside of a shell.

Emo offers a 30 day trial on all their products although with an amp, if you decide to return it that could be pretty costly with freight. The XPA-2 weighs about 65 lbs. Anyway, I love my Emo gear and am a happy owner.
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post #4627 of 6837 Old 11-04-2010, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by shodulik View Post

Islandman I would not recommend Emotiva amps at all. If you want to move to separates do it the right way and don't cheap out by getting Emo gear. There are so many other budget amplifier options out there instead. I am still absolutely astonished by how many get suckered in by their pricing model. You definitely get what you pay for with the Emo stuff (amps). Just my opinion of course but I'd keep the HK receiver and do some more research before you waste your money.

I completely disagree with this statement. I have Emo gear and they provide the best bang for the buck and customer service beyond any other brand that I have used. I am not saying that there are not better amps out there, I just do not understand why people complain about Emo amps and they use the same factory as some of the other well known brands. I have seen the factory production photos to prove this.

But don't take my word for it, go check some reviews out at different AV sites like Audioholics or the user reviews at Emotivas forum for more first hand reviews.
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I am not trying to bash your purchase at all, I am just trying to keep our peers from being closed minded and brainwashed by Emotiva. I happen to think they both look and sound awful. He may think differently. I only mentioned price because it's a fact that's what draws newer people to them. I think the Mirage's deserve better amplification.
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post #4629 of 6837 Old 11-04-2010, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by shodulik View Post

I am not trying to bash your purchase at all, I am just trying to keep our peers from being closed minded and brainwashed by Emotiva. I happen to think they both look and sound awful. He may think differently. I only mentioned price because it's a fact that's what draws newer people to them. I think the Mirage's deserve better amplification.

Well I agree, a person should keep an open mind with respect to choosing equipment. And I also have to say the Emo look isn't the best but I've seen far worse. I took the silver trim off of all my Emo gear and just left the chrome screws in place and to me it looks way better like that. Essentially just a black box with a glowing blue light and those four screws to me makes it look elegant.

As for "brainwashed," I don't feel that is an appropriate term because that implies something underhanded is going on. Emotiva is not trying to fool anyone - I feel they offer an excellent value for their money and they are not trying to mislead anyone. Their service is great and they do offer a genuine 30-day return policy (you will not get any hassle about returning your money - it is done no questions asked).
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post #4630 of 6837 Old 11-04-2010, 09:11 AM
 
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The return policy is the best thing about Emotiva LOL!!! Sorry I couldn't resist. But yeah at least he can try one out and see what he thinks. I wish I liked their amps because if i did I would have bought one for my little sister long ago and not have to had spent too much cash. Instead I have her powering her OMD-5's with an Onkyo receiver for now.
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post #4631 of 6837 Old 11-04-2010, 09:51 AM
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The return policy is the best thing about Emotiva LOL!!! Sorry I couldn't resist. But yeah at least he can try one out and see what he thinks. I wish I liked their amps because if i did I would have bought one for my little sister long ago and not have to had spent too much cash. Instead I have her powering her OMD-5's with an Onkyo receiver for now.

I understand some of what you are saying. This industry does have a herd mentality when it comes to gear. I feel this way about Paradigm speakers. They use to be the best bang for the buck until they kept raising their prices. By the time I was ready to buy, they had priced themselves out of my budget. Sure they have lower end models now, but that is not what I wanted.

Secondly, the main reason I like Emotiva is because of their transparent approach. They are transparent to a fault. Most companies shy away from this and would rather have their brand name carry them through. I do not appreciate buying receivers and amps that lie about there output. Most companies do not tell you the capacitor and transformer rating used in their equipment. That is when I run far away. I have discovered that the best way to get good performance from a speaker is to supply the maximum amount of power recommended (high current amp). I have owned speakers that would not produce sufficient bass without doing this. This is how the manufacturer measures the performance of their speakers (not with underpowered AVRs).

Lastly, the OMDs require a good amp to perform properly. I have to turn them up louder in order to get the same level of performance as my previous speakers.
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post #4632 of 6837 Old 11-04-2010, 10:17 AM
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Focus, please. This is the Mirage speaker thread, not the Emo amp thread. We all know exactly what thread we can go to if we wanted to debate Emo amps, and it's not this one.

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Focus, please. This is the Mirage speaker thread, not the Emo amp thread. We all know exactly what thread we can go to if we wanted to debate Emo amps, and it's not this one.

Well you are right, this is the Mirage thread. But we were talking about driving the OMD's with Emo amps. I just want to say that I feel my Emo amps do a great job with this - they are able to drive the OMD's to loud levels without getting very warm, and the sound I get (my opinion, since I know some others disagree) is very dynamic and detailed.
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Mirage is now seemingly being aimed at those who value style and form factor over pure audio capability.

That seems a little harsh. The OS3 line sounds pretty good.

And there's something to be said for giving the customer what they want. Trying to sell them something else is usually a recipe for liquidation. Small speakers that make some compromises on audio are what people want, and it shouldn't be that hard to understand why. For most people, they can get 98% of the enjoyment from a speaker that's 25% the size of what speakers used to be.

The reality is that the high end market is pretty small right now.

I'm sure there will be new Mirage products in the future, it's too good a product for that not to happen. And it's not like they need to do a lot of R&D, they can just refine what they have.
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post #4635 of 6837 Old 11-05-2010, 12:04 PM
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Hey Mirage OMD Owners, I need your advice!

I basically have two questions:

1) I am considering buying a 5.0 set of Mirage OMD's (15's, 5's, C1). I am wondering if there is anyone here that has pre/post experience with biamping the OMD-15's? What difference did you notice when you biamped these?

2) I have two nice 12" subs that I run simultaneously. Given that I have these subs, am I gaining anything by putting the OMD-15's in the mix, or am I just as well off by getting all OMD-5's (with C1 for center)? Would the 15's still add a desired character to the sound in this situation? Need your opinions!

Appreciatively,

Devlon
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post #4636 of 6837 Old 11-05-2010, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

...1) I am considering buying a 5.0 set of Mirage OMD's (15's, 5's, C1). I am wondering if there is anyone here that has pre/post experience with biamping the OMD-15's? What difference did you notice when you biamped these?

Just for fun, I've tried passive bi-amping with unused SB amplifiers on an AVR. A lot, if not most receivers have this capability now. Long story short, I could not hear or measure any difference. You may find, after plowing through countless threads on this subject, that passive bi-amping yields no or insignificant results according to many industry experts.

Active bi-amping is another beast altogether and requires, amongst other things, removing the crossovers in your speakers and the implementation of external crossovers and power amplifiers. If so inclined, I encourage you to set aside a few months to read the spirited debates on the subject.


2) I have two nice 12" subs that I run simultaneously. Given that I have these subs, am I gaining anything by putting the OMD-15's in the mix, or am I just as well off by getting all OMD-5's (with C1 for center)? Would the 15's still add a desired character to the sound in this situation? Need your opinions!

A quality subwoofer or two -- properly calibrated -- will, in my opinion, almost always add to any system. They are specifically designed to play LF and will do so, much better and with more authority than most tower speakers. Consider also that the optimum place for your Mirage speakers is not close to the ideal location to reproduce low frequencies. The OMD-15 may have better mid-bass response than an OMD-5 and they have a speaker stand already included. They're also nice to look at.

Appreciatively,

Devlon

Hope this helps.

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post #4637 of 6837 Old 11-05-2010, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

Hey Mirage OMD Owners, I need your advice!

I basically have two questions:

1) I am considering buying a 5.0 set of Mirage OMD's (15's, 5's, C1). I am wondering if there is anyone here that has pre/post experience with biamping the OMD-15's? What difference did you notice when you biamped these?

2) I have two nice 12" subs that I run simultaneously. Given that I have these subs, am I gaining anything by putting the OMD-15's in the mix, or am I just as well off by getting all OMD-5's (with C1 for center)? Would the 15's still add a desired character to the sound in this situation? Need your opinions!

Appreciatively,

Devlon

I agree with WhskyTangoFoxtrt's number 2 response. I have had towers and bookshelf speakers, and larger speakers generally provide a bigger sound and can provide more sound for larger rooms. If you have a small room, then the OMD5s will be more than adequate. If you have a larger space, then get the OMD15s.

I currently have two OMD5s for my fronts with a sub. They rival my full size Infinity Beta 50 speakers with the amount of sound they put out. They blend well with a sub because of the strong mid range they produce. I have the center on order. Now having said this, I am still getting the OMD15s because I have always preferred the sound of towers. I figure since the OMD5s work so well, the OMD15s will be more of a good thing since it has more drivers and plays down even lower. I hope this helps.
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post #4638 of 6837 Old 11-05-2010, 04:41 PM
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Hey WhskyTangoFoxtrt, and thanks for the response! In talking directly with Polk Audio (I own a complete surround sound set of Polk Lsi's) they explained that by biamping (removing the connecting speaker terminal tines on the back of the speaker) and running separate power to each pair of terminals and thereby giving direct power individually to each tweeter and woofer would have a definite sonic advantage. I don't fully grasp all that the technician said, but it was something like by removing the these tines, it takes one order of the crossover out of the equation. This still leaves in place the capacitors that are frequency range limiters for the tweeters. He said something like..... any time that you pass power and signal through circuitry, when the power and signal comes out the other side it is somewhat diminished and degraded. Power going through the crossover causes resistance, and resistance helps to create heat and distortion. By putting power directly to the components, and bypassing the first phase of this crossover, there will be a noticeable difference in sound. He said this is particularly true with power hungry 4ohm speakers like my Polk Lsi's. I really shouldn't even being talking about this I guess because I can't remember all he said, and I'm sure I haven't got some of this right. It was all new for me to absorb. But I think I am in the ballpark somewhere. So, other than the regular way to hook up speakers there seems to be also the options:
1) Biwiring
2) Biamping (passive)
3) Biamping (active) [the way I think you were talking about]

Yeah, talking about speaker positioning and bass response circles me back to the Polk Lsi's. Their bass response is stunning given their size. Unique low frequency porting technology they have. I would hope I wouldn't loose too much bass giving them up for the Mirages.

Again thanks WhskyTangoFoxtrt!!
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post #4639 of 6837 Old 11-05-2010, 04:59 PM
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Thanks NETPCTECH for your input!

To recap here:

I agree with WhskyTangoFoxtrt's number 2 response. I have had towers and bookshelf speakers, and larger speakers generally provide a bigger sound and can provide more sound for larger rooms. If you have a small room, then the OMD5s will be more than adequate. If you have a larger space, then get the OMD15s.

(Currently have 3 speaker systems at home: 1) Wharfedale Diamond 9.6 (4 way towers) Diamond 9.CM center and Diamond DFS surrounds 2) Polk Lsi9, Lsic, LsiFX's 3) 5.0 Mirage Nanosats. Each is in a separate room)

Because of the Nanosats I have become fascinated with the Mirage OMD's. I have the room for the OMDs, but I will either have to let go of the Wharfedales or the Polks. I had already made up my mind to try biamping before I got the Nanosats. I am kinda disappointed that if I get the OMD's that I will only be able to biamp the OMD-15's. I'm just wondering if biamping the OMD-15's would yield an even better sound. I guess this is part of the way I'm psyching myself to let go of the cash for another set of speakers!

Thanks for your response!
I currently have two OMD5s for my fronts with a sub. They rival my full size Infinity Beta 50 speakers with the amount of sound they put out. They blend well with a sub because of the strong mid range they produce. I have the center on order. Now having said this, I am still getting the OMD15s because I have always preferred the sound of towers. I figure since the OMD5s work so well, the OMD15s will be more of a good thing since it has more drivers and plays down even lower. I hope this helps.
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post #4640 of 6837 Old 11-06-2010, 10:55 AM
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I am guess I'm the one that kinda started this whole Emotiva thing indirectly because of asking Monkuboy what he powered his Mirages with which was Emotiva. I am new to AVS and had no idea that by the mere mentioning of that name that such a chain reaction would occur. Yes, I understand this thread was about Mirage originally, but I am glad the conversation digressed to Emotiva, especially as it concerned the UMC-1. Forgive my reopening of this original Mirage conversation about the UMC-1, but I value the opinion of you guys that commented above and want your opinions on other processors as I have eliminated the UMC-1 from my wish list, at least for now.

Are there any processors around the 1k price range that are worth considering? I know the Marantz AV7005 is about to hit, and it seems it is going to be a very competitive piece of gear, but it is hovering around 1400.00. What about Adcom, Denon, Interga, others etc.,etc? Is the multi band eq (15 is it?) per speaker unique to processors like the UMC-1, or are there others that have that as well? Also, since I am running two subs, is just "Y-ing" the single LFE output ok on a 7.1 processor, or is there an true advantage to a 7.2? Is there a particular processor/amp that is popular with the Mirages? I know at one time one of the techs at Polk suggested the HK AVR's. He said many of them there at Polk liked the Lsi/HK AVR combination and thought this make the Polks sound really good.....so, I thought this thinking might also apply to Mirages. Chime back in if you will.

Appreciatively,

Devlon
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post #4641 of 6837 Old 11-07-2010, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

That seems a little harsh. The OS3 line sounds pretty good.

And there's something to be said for giving the customer what they want. Trying to sell them something else is usually a recipe for liquidation. Small speakers that make some compromises on audio are what people want, and it shouldn't be that hard to understand why. For most people, they can get 98% of the enjoyment from a speaker that's 25% the size of what speakers used to be.

I'm sure they do, but when you look at the lineup for Mirage that seems to be the level of their aspiration now. You can't compare the OS3 to the OMD28 for example because they are leagues apart in build and output.

That's the sad part. Who cares if most people cannot afford the size or price of a high-end Mirage product? This isn't a type of product that should be limited by the reach of the general consumer. Audio speakers are a luxury product not a necessary one and pushing the envelope of design and power is the mark of a company that wants to be recognized for it's technology and aspirations. Otherwise you just have a competent but dull brand.

The vast majority of car buyers will never be able to afford or need a Nissan GT-R for example, but it's presence amongst the average consumer-level cars in the rest of the Nissan lineup gives Nissan an extra level of cache and prestige that allows them to compete with other companies that are usually in a different league.

Same applies to speaker brands. Without a high-end product Mirage drop down as a competitor to more respected manufacturers because they don't have a product that competes at that level.


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I'm sure they do, but when you look at the lineup for Mirage that seems to be the level of their aspiration now. You can't compare the OS3 to the OMD28 for example because they are leagues apart in build and output.

That's the sad part. Who cares if most people cannot afford the size or price of a high-end Mirage product? This isn't a type of product that should be limited by the reach of the general consumer. Audio speakers are a luxury product not a necessary one and pushing the envelope of design and power is the mark of a company that wants to be recognized for it's technology and aspirations. Otherwise you just have a competent but dull brand.

The vast majority of car buyers will never be able to afford or need a Nissan GT-R for example, but it's presence amongst the average consumer-level cars in the rest of the Nissan lineup gives Nissan an extra level of cache and prestige that allows them to compete with other companies that are usually in a different league.

Same applies to speaker brands. Without a high-end product Mirage drop down as a competitor to more respected manufacturers because they don't have a product that competes at that level.

Couldn't agree more. They need a new flagship speaker line in place of the OMD line which I love so much. Really hope they revamp soon.
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post #4643 of 6837 Old 11-08-2010, 03:11 AM
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I originally was considering getting 2 OMD-15s; 2 OMD-5s; OMD-C1. I have two 12" Digital Subs that I was intending to use with these. However, I have read several posts that with the OMD-28s a sub is really not needed. Other posts suggested, "get the best you can afford because you will always wonder if you shouldn't have gone the extra and purchased the 28s!" Well, I have been thinking about that. But, I can't afford the OMD-28s without selling these subs. So what do you guys think?: 1) Go with the 2 OMD-15s; 2 OMD-5s; OMD-C1 and use them with the subs, or 2) Sell the subs and go with the OMD-28s. Given I have the room for these, and adequately sized room to put them in which would you choose?


Note: One of the things that made me consider that OMD-15s in the mix the most is that is seems to me there is more continuity in the driver match with the 15s, 5's and C1 vs OMD-28s, C2, 5s. Also, one of the things that I liked about the 15s is that is also has a forward firing midrange driver that matches the other drivers in the system. It seems then, in a way, that it is a hybrid between direct (monopole) and omnipolar speaker cabinet design, and this may be a superior design.
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(2) OMD-28's by a mile...
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post #4645 of 6837 Old 11-08-2010, 07:02 AM
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Depends on how much use the subs get IMO. I have not heard the 28s, but for movies I just can't live without a solid sub.

I guess I'd still do the 28s, and pick up a sub later if needed.
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post #4646 of 6837 Old 11-08-2010, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

I originally was considering getting 2 OMD-15s; 2 OMD-5s; OMD-C1. I have two 12" Digital Subs that I was intending to use with these. However, I have read several posts that with the OMD-28s a sub is really not needed.

How will you reproduce the LFE channel (.1)? Without a subwoofer, you will have the C1 -- which handles the most material on any soundtrack -- and the OMD-5s trying to play low frequencies that these speakers are incapable of reproducing.

Mirage OMD speakers -- including the 28s -- by design, usually require that they are placed a little more into the room than most speakers. While this helps with imaging and sound stage, amongst other things, this is not the optimal location to reproduce smooth; deep bass. This is best reproduced in corners farthest from an opening. Your two subs with 12" woofers can be placed around your room to smooth out the bass or coupled to gain a possible 6 dB increase in response. I believe that the OMD-28s have 8" woofers and at 87 dB sensitivity, they do require a fair amount of amplification -- if you utilize them sans subwoofer.


Note: One of the things that made me consider that OMD-15s in the mix the most is that is seems to me there is more continuity in the driver match with the 15s, 5's and C1 vs OMD-28s, C2, 5s. Also, one of the things that I liked about the 15s is that is also has a forward firing midrange driver that matches the other drivers in the system. It seems then, in a way, that it is a hybrid between direct (monopole) and omnipolar speaker cabinet design, and this may be a superior design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shodulik View Post

(2) OMD-28's by a mile...

In a head-to-head comparison, the OMD-28s will have an advantage against the 15s in bass response. The combination of a the OMD-15s and a good sub has many advantages over the 28s in my opinion.

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post #4647 of 6837 Old 11-08-2010, 09:29 AM
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Quick, meaningless observation. Having read this entire thread, I feel a certain wistfulness. In another time and another place, with my budget I might have gone with the OMD-15 with OMD-C1 and OMD-5 surrounds in a 5.1 HT application. I don't think the performance/price ratio can be ignored. Alas, getting any sort of tower speakers is just not in the cards. In my house, they would wind up being very expensive scratching posts for cats and very expensive urinals for dogs. It's the simple truth. And that's just not going to happen. I wound up putting together a 7.1 system with OMD-5s fronts and surrounds, and OMD-C1 center and dual subwoofers. I'm pretty satisfied. /End quick, meaningless observation.

Knowing that the application for me, personally, would be 99.9% home theater. It just seems like the OMD-28s would be wasted potential. Fantastic if money is no object, but otherwise it's money best spent elsewhere. Unfortunately, with these speakers only available online, I'll probably never get a chance to listen and judge for myself.

I wanted to thank my fellow forum members for sharing their experiences and advice here. I went with the Mirage for aesthetic reasons primarily. I was looking for small satellites and the Nanosats and MXs were really the only choices that I could audition locally. Based on comments in this thread, I took a leap of faith and upgraded to the OMD-5s even though it was a bit more of a stretch on my budget and the speakers were a little larger than I was looking for. But I'm very glad that I took that leap. Thanks again.
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post #4648 of 6837 Old 11-08-2010, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post
I originally was considering getting 2 OMD-15s; 2 OMD-5s; OMD-C1. I have two 12" Digital Subs that I was intending to use with these. However, I have read several posts that with the OMD-28s a sub is really not needed. Other posts suggested, "get the best you can afford because you will always wonder if you shouldn't have gone the extra and purchased the 28s!" Well, I have been thinking about that. But, I can't afford the OMD-28s without selling these subs. So what do you guys think?: 1) Go with the 2 OMD-15s; 2 OMD-5s; OMD-C1 and use them with the subs, or 2) Sell the subs and go with the OMD-28s. Given I have the room for these, and adequately sized room to put them in which would you choose?


Note: One of the things that made me consider that OMD-15s in the mix the most is that is seems to me there is more continuity in the driver match with the 15s, 5's and C1 vs OMD-28s, C2, 5s. Also, one of the things that I liked about the 15s is that is also has a forward firing midrange driver that matches the other drivers in the system. It seems then, in a way, that it is a hybrid between direct (monopole) and omnipolar speaker cabinet design, and this may be a superior design.
According to previous post and reviews, the OMD-28s have very good bass and at times can have to much. In my opinion, a good speaker/sub combo can out perform the single OMD28s if the speakers cannot be placed in ideal locations. If i recall correctly, the OMD28s need to be placed a good distance form the walls in order to perform correctly. Loading up a corner with a OMD28 may result in to much bass boom. A sub on the other hand can be moved around generally speaking.

Having said all of that, I still would love to have a pair of OMD-28s. I agree with what you said about having the same size drivers. Manufacturers tune there speakers and the OMD28s are made to go with the OMDC2 and OMDR. Hope this helps.
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post #4649 of 6837 Old 11-09-2010, 10:38 AM
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Thanks for your replies about this. The replies about the advantages of separate subs makes the most sense to me. It has made me think deeper about this. I could be stuck if there was a problem with the bass frequencies in the room,( i.e., EQ, standing waves, boominess, etc., ) and I wasn't able to move the 28's to a satisfactory position to correct it. On the other hand, with separate subs I can move the subs in a place independent of the tower locations for the best sound if needed. Separate bass EQ would then be possible with the subs, but is not possible on the 28's as far as I can see. Also, my subs have their own room correction EQ, and I had forgotten how important that is. I think I was just lusting over the OMD-28's so hard that I had a momentary lack of reason (there's a song in there somewhere, lol). Thanks all for your input!
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post #4650 of 6837 Old 11-09-2010, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post

Thanks for your replies about this. The replies about the advantages of separate subs makes the most sense to me. It has made me think deeper about this. I could be stuck if there was a problem with the bass frequencies in the room,( i.e., EQ, standing waves, boominess, etc., ) and I wasn't able to move the 28's to a satisfactory position to correct it. On the other hand, with separate subs I can move the subs in a place independent of the tower locations for the best sound if needed. Separate bass EQ would then be possible with the subs, but is not possible on the 28's as far as I can see. Also, my subs have their own room correction EQ, and I had forgotten how important that is. I think I was just lusting over the OMD-28's so hard that I had a momentary lack of reason (there's a song in there somewhere, lol). Thanks all for your input!

Good thinkin! While larger floorstanders are a sight to behold and sound wicked when setup properly with lots of room, I think the most flexible option is what you suggest.

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