Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1018 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #30511 of 31271 Old 01-19-2014, 06:00 AM
Member
 
anteroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
If anyone is interested...ive got BP8080STx2, CS8080HD and BPVX x2 listed for 3200obo on classifieds

The Theater:
TV : Panasonic 60VT60
Receiver : Pioneer Elite SC - 55
Power Center : Panamax M7500 Pro
Bluray : Oppo 103
Gaming : Xbox 360
Front L & R : Def Tech BP8080ST
Center : Def Tech CS8080HD
Surround L & R : BPVX
anteroth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #30512 of 31271 Old 01-20-2014, 03:05 PM
Member
 
klh1790's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Anyone interested in a Supercube 1 for sale? Pm me.
klh1790 is offline  
post #30513 of 31271 Old 01-20-2014, 03:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
roland6465's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Hate to keep interjecting here, but I'm listening to Patterson Hood's "Heat Lightning Rumbles in the Distance" on the BP8060ST's and I'm hearing more detail and space than ever with this album. I feel like starting my collection from "A" and going all the way through it on these speakers. The bass is so tight and full, the high hat is so crisp, and the vocals go right through the middle. The fact that I could upgrade the center and rears of my movie room with the free speakers this month is just icing on the cake. Best money I've spent on audio ever.
roland6465 is offline  
post #30514 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 06:37 AM
Member
 
TSollecito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello all this is my first real jump into a real surround sound system. I previously had 5 Boston Acoustic speakers, good quality but basically HTIB, a Mirage Omni S8 sub and Denon 1705 receiver. This sounded good but I know nothing compared to the level at here. I purchased a 65" VT50 last year and moved from a townhouse to house recently and thought this would be the perfect time to invest in a new HT system. I'm a complete newbie in this area and went to magnolia and listened to the Bowers, Martin Logans, and Def Tech. For the price the DT sounded like the best bang for buck especially with the bundle deal. To make the long story short I purchased the 8060ST with 8040 center and surrounds. I feel like I got a great deal on a Pioneer SC-71 receiver which seems like a great receiver but I question the crossover setting I have been reading about. Not sure if I should look into going back to denon. Yesterday I returned the 8040 center to upgrade to an 8060 center as I heard the center is the most important. The box had tape on the top and appeared to be opened but everything looks good and works good. Only thing that made me wonder was the label in the box said it was shipped 12/22/2011. Is this a red flag? Where has this been for 3 years or am I being OCD and should just be happy to have upgraded and it works? I can prob return it and have them order me a new one but not sure if it's worth the hassle since this one works. Also not sure if any changes have been made to the speaker that would be worth getting a newly made one. Lastly my real question is setup. Right now the only sub I have is the Omni S8 and wonder if that will hurt my system and should just use the Def Techs until I have money for a quality sub. And if so I have the towers connected with just speaker wire set to large. Not sure how to connect the sub if it is in fact worth it. I'm assuming its best to leave it out for now. Any help would be great, especially on the pioneer receiver settings, or if it's better to switch brands. It was 999 but got it for 699. Seems good but not sure if a better receiver can be purchased. Thanks again, sorry for the long post but this the first entry into what seems to be a quality HT setup.
TSollecito is offline  
post #30515 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 06:54 AM
Member
 
Matthew Sanchez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSollecito View Post

Hello all this is my first real jump into a real surround sound system. I previously had 5 Boston Acoustic speakers, good quality but basically HTIB, a Mirage Omni S8 sub and Denon 1705 receiver. This sounded good but I know nothing compared to the level at here. I purchased a 65" VT50 last year and moved from a townhouse to house recently and thought this would be the perfect time to invest in a new HT system. I'm a complete newbie in this area and went to magnolia and listened to the Bowers, Martin Logans, and Def Tech. For the price the DT sounded like the best bang for buck especially with the bundle deal. To make the long story short I purchased the 8060ST with 8040 center and surrounds. I feel like I got a great deal on a Pioneer SC-71 receiver which seems like a great receiver but I question the crossover setting I have been reading about. Not sure if I should look into going back to denon. Yesterday I returned the 8040 center to upgrade to an 8060 center as I heard the center is the most important. The box had tape on the top and appeared to be opened but everything looks good and works good. Only thing that made me wonder was the label in the box said it was shipped 12/22/2011. Is this a red flag? Where has this been for 3 years or am I being OCD and should just be happy to have upgraded and it works? I can prob return it and have them order me a new one but not sure if it's worth the hassle since this one works. Also not sure if any changes have been made to the speaker that would be worth getting a newly made one. Lastly my real question is setup. Right now the only sub I have is the Omni S8 and wonder if that will hurt my system and should just use the Def Techs until I have money for a quality sub. And if so I have the towers connected with just speaker wire set to large. Not sure how to connect the sub if it is in fact worth it. I'm assuming its best to leave it out for now. Any help would be great, especially on the pioneer receiver settings, or if it's better to switch brands. It was 999 but got it for 699. Seems good but not sure if a better receiver can be purchased. Thanks again, sorry for the long post but this the first entry into what seems to be a quality HT setup.

 

I can't speak to the age of your speakers but I wouldn't be too worried as most of my components come used in the first place.   As far as your sub settings go I asked a similar question a little while back and it sounds like you should stick with the def tech subs until you can afford better subs (the svs pb-2000 seemed to be the most recommended.  I haven't gotten mine yet shipping on Wednesday).  As far as the setting of the subs I would go with the LFE setup so you can get the lows on the surround as well.  Send all of your LFE signal from all speakers to the two subwoofers and set up the appropriate crossover (80 for the towers and maybe 100/120 for any smaller speakers.  check your speaker recommendations )

Matthew Sanchez is offline  
post #30516 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 07:09 AM
Member
 
Matthew Sanchez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSollecito View Post

 I feel like I got a great deal on a Pioneer SC-71 receiver which seems like a great receiver but I question the crossover setting I have been reading about.

 

You got a very good price on a nice System.  I currently have a VSX 92-TXH which is effectively the step up from 8 years ago.  I am debating between the 71 and the 75.  Right now unless I find a good deal on the SC-75 I'm probably going with the SC-71.  There doesn't seem to be much of a difference.  From what I can see there is a little more power,  More zone control, 9.2 and the Saber32 DAC.  

 

I'm not sure how much of a difference the Saber32 DAC makes for which sources.  A guy in the store tried playing some digital music files on the two system to show the difference and I didn't hear it but stores aren't always the best demo situations for detail.

Matthew Sanchez is offline  
post #30517 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 08:22 AM
Member
 
TSollecito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Seems like a great receiver. Is the crossover setting a big deal? I know many people say to set different speakers with different settings and the pioneer has just one crossover option. Other than that it's a great avr with a lot of features and power. But if I don't connect the mirage sub, which is prob not even as good as the sub in tower the crossover doesn't even matter right? If I just connect the towers with speaker wire and set to large? Also is there a good difference between 8040 center and 8060, and I should do the same with the center by connecting with speaker wire and set to large right? Thanks again.
TSollecito is offline  
post #30518 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 08:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
AlexanderDelarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Omaha
Posts: 610
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSollecito View Post

Seems like a great receiver. Is the crossover setting a big deal? I know many people say to set different speakers with different settings and the pioneer has just one crossover option. Other than that it's a great avr with a lot of features and power. But if I don't connect the mirage sub, which is prob not even as good as the sub in tower the crossover doesn't even matter right? If I just connect the towers with speaker wire and set to large? Also is there a good difference between 8040 center and 8060, and I should do the same with the center by connecting with speaker wire and set to large right? Thanks again.

 

I will be going with the Pioneer Elite VSX -70 and the one crossover setting does give me some concerns. I will be using PM 1000's for front left and right with a PC 2000 center. The surrounds and rears will be SR8040BP's along with a Rythmik LV12R sub.  DT says to set the crossover for the 1000's at 80, the PC 2000 at 60 and the 8040's at 100.  So there are three different settings. Plus the Pioneer does not set the sub am told. If I had to guess, I would set the crossover at 80 but won't know until I run MCAAC. It could be 100 is better but either way, the Rythmik sub is a very good one and will be able to handle it. 


Epson Pro Cinema 6030 | OPPO BDP - 103 | Pioneer Elite VSX 70 | Definitive Technology PM 1000 (L/R) | PC 2000 (C) | SR8040BP's (7.1) | Rythmik LV12R | Carada Criterion Brilliant White 118" | URC MX 780 & MRF 350 | ATS Acoustic Panels | Sanus AV Rack | DirecTv | Roku 2 | Monoprice 12AWG |
AlexanderDelarg is offline  
post #30519 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 08:51 AM
Member
 
Matthew Sanchez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderDelarg View Post
 

 

I will be going with the Pioneer Elite VSX -70 and the one crossover setting does give me some concerns. I will be using PM 1000's for front left and right with a PC 2000 center. The surrounds and rears will be SR8040BP's along with a Rythmik LV12R sub.  DT says to set the crossover for the 1000's at 80, the PC 2000 at 60 and the 8040's at 100.  So there are three different settings. Plus the Pioneer does not set the sub am told. If I had to guess, I would set the crossover at 80 but won't know until I run MCAAC. It could be 100 is better but either way, the Rythmik sub is a very good one and will be able to handle it.

 

Is multiple crossover settings a option in the higher end models?   I swear my current reciever allows it.  I'll check tonight.

Matthew Sanchez is offline  
post #30520 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 09:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
AlexanderDelarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Omaha
Posts: 610
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Sanchez View Post
 

 

Is multiple crossover settings a option in the higher end models?   I swear my current reciever allows it.  I'll check tonight.

 

I believe Pioneer is one crossover setting for all of their receivers.  


Epson Pro Cinema 6030 | OPPO BDP - 103 | Pioneer Elite VSX 70 | Definitive Technology PM 1000 (L/R) | PC 2000 (C) | SR8040BP's (7.1) | Rythmik LV12R | Carada Criterion Brilliant White 118" | URC MX 780 & MRF 350 | ATS Acoustic Panels | Sanus AV Rack | DirecTv | Roku 2 | Monoprice 12AWG |
AlexanderDelarg is offline  
post #30521 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 12:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Sanchez View Post

Is multiple crossover settings a option in the higher end models?   I swear my current reciever allows it.  I'll check tonight.

The single crossover frequency is common to all Pioneer receivers with MCACC. i can't find it at the moment, but I once read a Pio engineer's explanation of their rationale for this, which had to do with deleterious effects of using different filter cutoffs on speakers playing the same content.

Whatever the reasoning, I think it points to the potential advantage of using the THX approach with MCACC (eg, all speakers "small" and an 80Hz crossover), or going with "large" on your mains if they can handle it and you have sufficient power.

Obsessing too much over the differences between 80Hz and 100Hz is probably counter-productive. It's a subtle difference you might hear every now and then with certain source material, but most of the time you won't be able to tell.
AlexanderDelarg likes this.

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
post #30522 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 12:53 PM
Member
 
Matthew Sanchez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

No big deal for me so far since I'm running 6 Pro Monitor 1000s.  Good to know though.  thanks.

Matthew Sanchez is offline  
post #30523 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 01:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
AlexanderDelarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Omaha
Posts: 610
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 41

I asked the question in the Pioneer MCACC thread and got this........on why Pioneer goes with one crossover......

 

 

"Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post


yes. That is their philosophy and will continue to be. Their intention is to preserve phase integrity across all channels and having more than one crossover for independent channels can have an impact on phase.

I have asked the head of marketing for Pio US and he has asked the audio engineers in Japan. Can't do much better than that for a reason."


Epson Pro Cinema 6030 | OPPO BDP - 103 | Pioneer Elite VSX 70 | Definitive Technology PM 1000 (L/R) | PC 2000 (C) | SR8040BP's (7.1) | Rythmik LV12R | Carada Criterion Brilliant White 118" | URC MX 780 & MRF 350 | ATS Acoustic Panels | Sanus AV Rack | DirecTv | Roku 2 | Monoprice 12AWG |
AlexanderDelarg is offline  
post #30524 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 01:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
KJSmitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Sanchez View Post

No big deal for me so far since I'm running 6 Pro Monitor 1000s.  Good to know though.  thanks.

That's where / when the decision is easy - when all speakers are identical and/or equal in capability. :-)

Love DIY
KJSmitty is offline  
post #30525 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 03:30 PM
Member
 
TSollecito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So I'm note sure if there is something wrong with one of the towers or if it's just me or something else. I hooked up the new 8060 center and that sounds good. Left tower has more bass than the right. If I turn up the sub volume on the back of the tower it has lots of bass. When I turned it up on the right tower to compare it def didnt sound get as loud/deep. I clicked the pure direct button in case it was a settings thing. I was listening to music, but couldn't figure it out. Even in the MCACC check the bass was better on the left than right and that was just clicks or thumps during the test. What do you guys think?
TSollecito is offline  
post #30526 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 04:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LowellG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Helotes, TX
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSollecito View Post

So I'm note sure if there is something wrong with one of the towers or if it's just me or something else. I hooked up the new 8060 center and that sounds good. Left tower has more bass than the right. If I turn up the sub volume on the back of the tower it has lots of bass. When I turned it up on the right tower to compare it def didnt sound get as loud/deep. I clicked the pure direct button in case it was a settings thing. I was listening to music, but couldn't figure it out. Even in the MCACC check the bass was better on the left than right and that was just clicks or thumps during the test. What do you guys think?

It could be the towers, or it could be placement. Are they each located the same distance from the wall, front and back or some other object. Also, try reversing there positions and see if the same thing happens.

Lowell

 

Panasonic AE7000

120" Screen

Def Tech PM65s X 2, CS8080, SR8080BP X 4

PSA XS30 X 2

Denon XS4000

Outlaw Audio 7125

LowellG is offline  
post #30527 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 06:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
KJSmitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
^^^Good suggestion above. On the new towers the powered drivers face the same direction - as in both will face left or right etc. Thus, one is shooting into the room and the other into a wall /corner probably. Depending on the room, one could be more pronounced - bass wise. (Your description however has me thinking otherwise)

That being said, swapping their position will identify any difference. If easier you could also swap speaker wires from one to the other just to see if the stronger bass moves to the other etc.

Worse case, you may have to return one. The good is they are not sold in marked pairs thus swapping just one is no big deal etc. Tis a bit of a downer if you got a lemon - keep us posted on what you find.

Love DIY
KJSmitty is offline  
post #30528 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 07:01 PM
Member
 
TSollecito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Great idea, makes sense about the same facing drivers. I unplugged both towers and swapped them. Tough to find a consistent source of bass to analyze but it doesn't seem as different as before. Maybe unplugging and plugging back in reset something, avr was using different settings for L and R, and the most likely thought from the post above was placement. One tower is further from the wall on right and the one on left is next to entertainment center and wall. When I turned the knob on both the difference was almost drastic, I didn't even think that placement would have been the cause, guess that's why I'm a rookie in all this. Happy to be part of the DT club now though, still lots to learn. I'm going to continue to make sure they both sound the same but I'm thinking the placement on the left close to the wall may have been the cause. If it wasn't the avr what would be the cause, as the tower powers on and works, so it would have to be the amp or something right? I wish I was better with the whole MCACC setup and settings to really make this system sing. If there is a problem as long as I find it in the next couple days I'm good since they are new and under the return policy. I have the center set to large and I like it better than the 8040 so far. Probably going to keep the receiver since at the price paid I probably can't get anything better. The X4000 looks nice but more money. Thanks again for the help, I'm thinking the speaker isn't a lemon, just me haha.
TSollecito is offline  
post #30529 of 31271 Old 01-21-2014, 07:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LowellG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Helotes, TX
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSollecito View Post

Great idea, makes sense about the same facing drivers. I unplugged both towers and swapped them. Tough to find a consistent source of bass to analyze but it doesn't seem as different as before. Maybe unplugging and plugging back in reset something, avr was using different settings for L and R, and the most likely thought from the post above was placement. One tower is further from the wall on right and the one on left is next to entertainment center and wall. When I turned the knob on both the difference was almost drastic, I didn't even think that placement would have been the cause, guess that's why I'm a rookie in all this. Happy to be part of the DT club now though, still lots to learn. I'm going to continue to make sure they both sound the same but I'm thinking the placement on the left close to the wall may have been the cause. If it wasn't the avr what would be the cause, as the tower powers on and works, so it would have to be the amp or something right? I wish I was better with the whole MCACC setup and settings to really make this system sing. If there is a problem as long as I find it in the next couple days I'm good since they are new and under the return policy. I have the center set to large and I like it better than the 8040 so far. Probably going to keep the receiver since at the price paid I probably can't get anything better. The X4000 looks nice but more money. Thanks again for the help, I'm thinking the speaker isn't a lemon, just me haha.

I just got the X4000 and the XT32 made a night and day difference.

Lowell

 

Panasonic AE7000

120" Screen

Def Tech PM65s X 2, CS8080, SR8080BP X 4

PSA XS30 X 2

Denon XS4000

Outlaw Audio 7125

LowellG is offline  
post #30530 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 04:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
JoeBloggz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southeast, MA
Posts: 757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I'm considering the SM45's for a 3.1 system. What center channel goes with the sm45's. Also any reputable dealers(online sites) to look at for good pricing?

Denon AVR-X2000------>Def Tech PM1000's------>Def Tech PC2000------->Sub(TBD)
Pioneer Pro111FD viewed from 7'------>Picture mode, ISF Day(calibrated by umr)
Sony PS3

JoeBloggz is offline  
post #30531 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 05:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LowellG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Helotes, TX
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Look at bajawaverunner on eBay. He sells factory refurbished but its good as new. I have bought several things for cheap and they are great.

The 8040, 8060 to another 45 would be fine for center.

Lowell

 

Panasonic AE7000

120" Screen

Def Tech PM65s X 2, CS8080, SR8080BP X 4

PSA XS30 X 2

Denon XS4000

Outlaw Audio 7125

LowellG is offline  
post #30532 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 06:11 AM
Member
 
krips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

I just got the X4000 and the XT32 made a night and day difference.

Yep, it does make a night and day difference. I returned Pioneer Elite SC-72 and Pioneer SC-1523-K (equivalent of SC-75 with THX select 2). MCACC room calibration doesn't do justice to DT speakers or any other speakers for that matter. I recently dragged myself in the world of A/V receivers. I live in an apartment, therefore going with big speakers was not an option for me, therefore I purchased DT ProCenter1000 and ProMon1000. The Denon AVR-X4000 and specially MultEQ XT32 makes them sound awesome.

XBR55HX929 / AVR X4000
PS3 Slim / BDP-S6200
Roku 3 / WD TV Live /Chromecast
DT PM1000 / PC2000
DVP5000
krips is online now  
post #30533 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 07:39 AM
Senior Member
 
gtbdevs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Currently have SM65's for the L/R, and the CS8060 for the center, sub is an SVS PC12 Plus.

Some where came across using a phantom center(probably here), and if you had capable front speakers, it might be a plus not to use a center channel. So, I had to try and see if I would notice a difference, and improvement.

I can truely hear(no pun intended), a step up in the vocals, without having to increase the volume. I haven't had a chance to test anything with some good bass, but I think it would either be the same, or also a slight improvement.

Now, I am thinking I could sell my center, and save for another sub?

Should my setup actually sound better, without a center?

Thanks.
gtbdevs is offline  
post #30534 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 08:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
josh6113's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Columbus,Ohio
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtbdevs View Post

Currently have SM65's for the L/R, and the CS8060 for the center, sub is an SVS PC12 Plus.

Some where came across using a phantom center(probably here), and if you had capable front speakers, it might be a plus not to use a center channel. So, I had to try and see if I would notice a difference, and improvement.

I can truely hear(no pun intended), a step up in the vocals, without having to increase the volume. I haven't had a chance to test anything with some good bass, but I think it would either be the same, or also a slight improvement.

Now, I am thinking I could sell my center, and save for another sub?

Should my setup actually sound better, without a center?

Thanks.
I have 8060 towers...when I got them I also bought the 8060 center.After owning the center for a while I too just liked my two towers up front with no center...too me it sounded better.Don't let people fool you into thinking a center is necessary...if your mains image very well in my eyes and experience the center isn't really needed.

Doing what I do best...LIVIN!
josh6113 is offline  
post #30535 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 08:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtbdevs View Post

Currently have SM65's for the L/R, and the CS8060 for the center, sub is an SVS PC12 Plus.

Should my setup actually sound better, without a center?

The entire science of "stereo imaging" for home audio systems was developed during a time when all centers were phantom. Speaker designers learned how to build speakers that could project a strong, stable soundstage because two speakers was all anybody had. Even during the quadraphonic era, there were no center channel speakers.

What was learned about stereo imaging over the generations has not been forgotten, only refined. Speakers with excellent imaging will also create a convincing phantom center channel.

And since, in theory, a perfect timbre match can be achieved only with a phantom center, then yes, it's entirely possible a your setup can sound better that way.

But there are caveats. Over those same generations, in theaters, speakers were located behind the center of the (perforated) screen so that sound appeared to emanate from the screen wherever you were sitting. Multichannel theatrical audio kept that center speaker, and that's why home theaters have them: to anchor the dialog to the screen. Phantom centers don't do that, and if your room has seating positions much closer to one side, dialog will appear to come from the nearest speaker, not the screen.

Plus, of course, with a phantom center, all of the energy that was coming from the center has now been redistributed to the mains, increasing the power requirements for those channels. Some systems will reveal the strain that can result.

If I were living alone and sat in a chair directly in front of my screen, I would probably go with a phantom center myself. But I don't, I'm not, yet thankfully in the PC2000 I've found a CC speaker that makes my system sound like I do.

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
post #30536 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 09:28 AM
Advanced Member
 
AlexanderDelarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Omaha
Posts: 610
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by krips View Post


Yep, it does make a night and day difference. I returned Pioneer Elite SC-72 and Pioneer SC-1523-K (equivalent of SC-75 with THX select 2). MCACC room calibration doesn't do justice to DT speakers or any other speakers for that matter. I recently dragged myself in the world of A/V receivers. I live in an apartment, therefore going with big speakers was not an option for me, therefore I purchased DT ProCenter1000 and ProMon1000. The Denon AVR-X4000 and specially MultEQ XT32 makes them sound awesome.

I would change out the PC1000 with the PC2000.  The PC2000 is matched to the PM1000's.  The PM800's are matched with the PC1000. Confusing, yes, but you will be much happier. 


Epson Pro Cinema 6030 | OPPO BDP - 103 | Pioneer Elite VSX 70 | Definitive Technology PM 1000 (L/R) | PC 2000 (C) | SR8040BP's (7.1) | Rythmik LV12R | Carada Criterion Brilliant White 118" | URC MX 780 & MRF 350 | ATS Acoustic Panels | Sanus AV Rack | DirecTv | Roku 2 | Monoprice 12AWG |
AlexanderDelarg is offline  
post #30537 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 09:57 AM
Senior Member
 
gtbdevs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

The entire science of "stereo imaging" for home audio systems was developed during a time when all centers were phantom. Speaker designers learned how to build speakers that could project a strong, stable soundstage because two speakers was all anybody had. Even during the quadraphonic era, there were no center channel speakers.

What was learned about stereo imaging over the generations has not been forgotten, only refined. Speakers with excellent imaging will also create a convincing phantom center channel.

And since, in theory, a perfect timbre match can be achieved only with a phantom center, then yes, it's entirely possible a your setup can sound better that way.

But there are caveats. Over those same generations, in theaters, speakers were located behind the center of the (perforated) screen so that sound appeared to emanate from the screen wherever you were sitting. Multichannel theatrical audio kept that center speaker, and that's why home theaters have them: to anchor the dialog to the screen. Phantom centers don't do that, and if your room has seating positions much closer to one side, dialog will appear to come from the nearest speaker, not the screen.

Plus, of course, with a phantom center, all of the energy that was coming from the center has now been redistributed to the mains, increasing the power requirements for those channels. Some systems will reveal the strain that can result.

If I were living alone and sat in a chair directly in front of my screen, I would probably go with a phantom center myself. But I don't, I'm not, yet thankfully in the PC2000 I've found a CC speaker that makes my system sound like I do.


Thanks for the great info.

Thanks also Josh6113.
gtbdevs is offline  
post #30538 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 10:03 AM
Member
 
TSollecito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That would probably be my receiver of choice, but I'm not sure how much they would take off the $1299 price tag. Should I look at the X3000 instead. I just think the SC-71 is probably better than the X3000 but the X4000 is better than the SC-71. I really can't complain about the Pioneer yet, yes the crossover feature seems limiting but I don't know how much a difference that setting makes. MCACC seems ok, maybe the new Audessey is better, not sure how much. Even if MCACC isn't as good I should still be able to manually tweak settings to make it sound good right? Or I'll have someone who really knows what there doing help me with the settings. So far it works good and has lots of features, and I like the standby pass through to. Then again my last receiver was 10 years old so I'm sure they all have these new features. But by Denon 1705 worked great for all these years and still works great. Just needed to upgrade. It still works like the day I got it. And it was basically one of the lower models. Any feedback is always appreciated.
TSollecito is offline  
post #30539 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 10:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LowellG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Helotes, TX
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtbdevs View Post

Currently have SM65's for the L/R, and the CS8060 for the center, sub is an SVS PC12 Plus.

Some where came across using a phantom center(probably here), and if you had capable front speakers, it might be a plus not to use a center channel. So, I had to try and see if I would notice a difference, and improvement.

I can truely hear(no pun intended), a step up in the vocals, without having to increase the volume. I haven't had a chance to test anything with some good bass, but I think it would either be the same, or also a slight improvement.

Now, I am thinking I could sell my center, and save for another sub?

Should my setup actually sound better, without a center?

Thanks.

I run my 65s in phantom CC right now Sounded good before but great with audisseyXT 32. I have an 8 seat ht add tried all seat. You really can't tell from one seat to the next but center is best. I have a CLR 2300 coming to try it. If its better it stays. If not it goes to the living room with the BP 2006s.

Lowell

 

Panasonic AE7000

120" Screen

Def Tech PM65s X 2, CS8080, SR8080BP X 4

PSA XS30 X 2

Denon XS4000

Outlaw Audio 7125

LowellG is offline  
post #30540 of 31271 Old 01-22-2014, 11:07 AM
Senior Member
 
gtbdevs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

I run my 65s in phantom CC right now Sounded good before but great with audisseyXT 32. I have an 8 seat ht add tried all seat. You really can't tell from one seat to the next but center is best. I have a CLR 2300 coming to try it. If its better it stays. If not it goes to the living room with the BP 2006s.


Thanks, I have the Onkyo TX-NR818, which employs XT32. I did not re-do Audyssey after losing the center, I guess I should re-do it?
gtbdevs is offline  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Definitive Technology , Definitive Technology Supercube Trinity , Definitive Technology Bpx Speaker Single Black , Definitive Technology Bpvx Speaker Single Black , Definitive Technology Supercube 2000 Subwoofer , Definitive Technology Super Cube 4000 Subwoofer , Definitive Technology Studiomonitor 350 Speakers , Definitive Technology Bp2x Speakers , Definitive Technology Mythos 6 Aluminum Stand , Marantz Sr7002 Surround Receiver , Receivers Amplifiers , Parasound , Definitive Technology Bp7004 , Speaker Systems
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off