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post #31411 of 31923 Old 08-10-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I would need to know a little more. How big is the room, what sub(s) do you have, what are you powering them with?
The room is about 17'x18'

Sub is "negligible" just because I don't have a proper one its a sub from a Sony HTIB, sometimes I wonder if I should just remove it. But I'm using the sub from my BP2002TL.

I'm using the Denon 2809CI.
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post #31412 of 31923 Old 08-10-2014, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAISKI View Post
The room is about 17'x18'

Sub is "negligible" just because I don't have a proper one its a sub from a Sony HTIB, sometimes I wonder if I should just remove it. But I'm using the sub from my BP2002TL.

I'm using the Denon 2809CI.


OK, then I would do the mains as large + LFE in the receiver, the 2002 try 60-80 and see what you like and the 1.2s at 60 and try the 400s at 40. My 2 cents.


A lot of it is personal preference.

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post #31413 of 31923 Old 08-10-2014, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
OK, then I would do the mains as large + LFE in the receiver, the 2002 try 60-80 and see what you like and the 1.2s at 60 and try the 400s at 40. My 2 cents.


A lot of it is personal preference.

Thanks, I'm very certain you have better experience than myself. What should I put the LFE at? For the CLR2002 I just put it as small, as well as the 1.2s.
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post #31414 of 31923 Old 08-10-2014, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAISKI View Post
Thanks, I'm very certain you have better experience than myself. What should I put the LFE at? For the CLR2002 I just put it as small, as well as the 1.2s.


That should work well for the 2002 and the 1.2Xs, I don't know the 2809, but try and change the frequency to 60 with them at small. I am not sure on your question for the LFE, but I think you are talking about it's max frequency I would set it at 120. Other than that, I am guessing the 2809 has a similar setting to my X4000 where you can set it to main plus LFE. Mine is subwoofer mode LFE + Main

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post #31415 of 31923 Old 08-11-2014, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
That should work well for the 2002 and the 1.2Xs, I don't know the 2809, but try and change the frequency to 60 with them at small. I am not sure on your question for the LFE, but I think you are talking about it's max frequency I would set it at 120. Other than that, I am guessing the 2809 has a similar setting to my X4000 where you can set it to main plus LFE. Mine is subwoofer mode LFE + Main

Watched a movie last night on BR Resident Evil 2, the sound was so much better! Thx

I have my LFE @ 90 currently, I will try 120. Ya I have LFE + Main.
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post #31416 of 31923 Old 08-11-2014, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAISKI View Post
Watched a movie last night on BR Resident Evil 2, the sound was so much better! Thx

I have my LFE @ 90 currently, I will try 120. Ya I have LFE + Main.

I am glad it worked out for you. Just a bit of advice from my lesson's learned for your next inevitable upgrade. Before you upgrade anything else, invest in a good sub.

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post #31417 of 31923 Old 08-12-2014, 09:59 PM
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bp2006tl

I got the bp2006tl I bought.I have them hooked up with just speaker connection not using the lfe connection.I haved them crossed at 60hz.The problem I'M encountering is when I run audyssery I get speaker error message on fr left every time.I then used a spl meter to set them tob75db manually. I am having these are the levels I'm having to raise the levels up to fr +7.5 fr +9.0 is this normal.The bp8 I just replaceed with the 2006 I only had them at fl +2.5 fr +2.0 to get the same level.The bp2006tl sound good otherwise.I have checked all connections on the speakers and they are right.The audyssey problem has me stumped.I hooked up bp8 and it worked with them.Is it normal to have to raise the channel levels so high on bp2006tl to get 75hz. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
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post #31418 of 31923 Old 08-13-2014, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasammeg View Post
I got the bp2006tl I bought.I have them hooked up with just speaker connection not using the lfe connection.I haved them crossed at 60hz.The problem I'M encountering is when I run audyssery I get speaker error message on fr left every time.I then used a spl meter to set them tob75db manually. I am having these are the levels I'm having to raise the levels up to fr +7.5 fr +9.0 is this normal.The bp8 I just replaceed with the 2006 I only had them at fl +2.5 fr +2.0 to get the same level.The bp2006tl sound good otherwise.I have checked all connections on the speakers and they are right.The audyssey problem has me stumped.I hooked up bp8 and it worked with them.Is it normal to have to raise the channel levels so high on bp2006tl to get 75hz. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
As far as the Audyssey thing goes, my only suggestion would be to swap the 2006 positions (L for R) just to see if it changes anything.

With the output level a couple of things come to mind as far as your settings, don't know what receiver you have and I know you said you changed your crossover to 60hz, but you might want to double check a couple of other things.
1) Speaker setting, make sure you're set to Large.

2) Sub setting, make sure, if you have the option, that your set to LFE plus,

Either of these settings will have an effect on the low end output of your fronts, and I could see where if your not getting a full signal for your lows it would have a big difference on your overall SPL.

Hate to ask this but since they're used and new to you, you're sure the woofers are working? I know it seems too basic and should be obvious, but I actually had an amp go once and was in such a small room that with my other speaker working and the sub, it wasn't real obvious at first. (just covering the bases)
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post #31419 of 31923 Old 08-13-2014, 09:55 AM
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As you can see below I have a set of Klipsch speakers. I had switched to them from a 5.1 Atlantic Technology set about 5 or 6 years ago because a friend of mine - who was a salesman at Tweeter - told me they were better speakers. Whether that was true or not is debatable. I am planning to get a Dolby ATMOS AVR as soon as they are available and have been checking out speakers with this new feature. I looked at the new Pioneer website which has some new ATMOS ready speakers and also looked at the Definitive Tech new A60 Elevation Modules which are recommended to be purchased with the BP-8060ST. I was wondering if anyone had experience with Klipsch and could offer some comparisons to the BP-8060ST. Thanks.

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post #31420 of 31923 Old 08-13-2014, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasammeg View Post
I got the bp2006tl I bought.I have them hooked up with just speaker connection not using the lfe connection.I haved them crossed at 60hz.The problem I'M encountering is when I run audyssery I get speaker error message on fr left every time.I then used a spl meter to set them tob75db manually. I am having these are the levels I'm having to raise the levels up to fr +7.5 fr +9.0 is this normal.The bp8 I just replaceed with the 2006 I only had them at fl +2.5 fr +2.0 to get the same level.The bp2006tl sound good otherwise.I have checked all connections on the speakers and they are right.The audyssey problem has me stumped.I hooked up bp8 and it worked with them.Is it normal to have to raise the channel levels so high on bp2006tl to get 75hz. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but any "auto-setup" (Audyssey, YPAO, MCACC etc) will always report errors when trying to setup Bipole speakers. I couldn't locate a BP2006TL manual but in the manual for the 8060BP it specifically states NOT to use the receiver's auto-setup features.

Hope this helps.
Carmine.
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post #31421 of 31923 Old 08-13-2014, 01:26 PM
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Thanks for all the suggestions.I think the battery was bad in my spl meter. I changed the battery and now my channel levels are much lower to get 75hz. I also turned off dynamic volume in my onkyo tx-sr707. I swapped positions of my FL and FR on my bp2006tl and tried audyssey again.I still got same problem, so I set up manually. I think they sound great.I have another question.How should I hook up the bp2006tl. Should I hook up Lfe on them or just stick with the way I have them with the speaker wire and set them to full band.I have a dedicated sub for Lfe.Any help is most welcome.
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post #31422 of 31923 Old 08-14-2014, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasammeg View Post
Thanks for all the suggestions.I think the battery was bad in my spl meter. I changed the battery and now my channel levels are much lower to get 75hz. I also turned off dynamic volume in my onkyo tx-sr707. I swapped positions of my FL and FR on my bp2006tl and tried audyssey again.I still got same problem, so I set up manually. I think they sound great.I have another question.How should I hook up the bp2006tl. Should I hook up Lfe on them or just stick with the way I have them with the speaker wire and set them to full band.I have a dedicated sub for Lfe.Any help is most welcome.
Glad to hear it

I looked at your receiver, set your fronts to full range and drop them to 40hz, then try your sub with both double base on and off just to see what sounds best.

As far as LFE use a dedicated sub, the low input RCA should be used with a Full Range pre-out anyway, not with LFE (Definitive has gone both ways with this connection over the years and found that Full Range is a better choice for this hook up)

If your receiver allows you to (I think it does) run both Pre-out and speaker level at the same time you can run from your R/L pre-outs to the low level input for each speaker (I don't remember the back panel for the 2006's but if it has jumper bars between the wire connectors make sure you remove the ones that connect the low's if you connect this way! Very Important!) Then just connect the mids and highs normally.

Try it this way and see what you think, some people like it better, some don't, I noticed more of a difference in my larger room than in my old small one, just choose the one you like. (Personally, if you don't have some spare cables around to try this, don't go crazy and buy some expensive cables, the difference may only be slight, May be none at all, or you may not like it, not a guaranteed improvement)

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post #31423 of 31923 Old 08-15-2014, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
I am glad it worked out for you. Just a bit of advice from my lesson's learned for your next inevitable upgrade. Before you upgrade anything else, invest in a good sub.
Always good to know.

Funny you mentioned that I was just looking for a sub some movies my Sony sub just can't really keep up

Which would be the "best option" these are used. I am 100% sure that the 1200w is overkill for me no doubt. But just wondering what would make sense to buy.

Supercube II - $250 CAD
8"
1200w

Supercube 2000 - $350 CAD
7.5"
650w
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post #31424 of 31923 Old 08-15-2014, 08:10 AM
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Always good to know.

Funny you mentioned that I was just looking for a sub some movies my Sony sub just can't really keep up

Which would be the "best option" these are used. I am 100% sure that the 1200w is overkill for me no doubt. But just wondering what would make sense to buy.

Supercube II - $250 CAD
8"
1200w

Supercube 2000 - $350 CAD
7.5"
650w
Don't get either one of those. What is your max budget. I owned a definitive technology super cube one $1200 sub. It was inferior to the SVS PB 12 NSD $670 sub when I upgraded. Size matters and definitely buy an aftermarket sub. Look at SVS, Rythmik, and PSA.
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post #31425 of 31923 Old 08-15-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
Don't get either one of those. What is your max budget. I owned a definitive technology super cube one $1200 sub. It was inferior to the SVS PB 12 NSD $670 sub when I upgraded. Size matters and definitely buy an aftermarket sub. Look at SVS, Rythmik, and PSA.
For now I have a minimal budget around $500 that's why I'm looking at used. Because I'm planning to replace my TV, AVR and BR player soon.

Denon 2809CI
C: Def Tech - CLR2002
F: Def Tech - BP2002TL
S: Def Tech - BP1.2X
SB: Def Tech - PM400
Sub: Still looking
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post #31426 of 31923 Old 08-15-2014, 09:38 AM
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For now I have a minimal budget around $500 that's why I'm looking at used. Because I'm planning to replace my TV, AVR and BR player soon.
Around $500? Get SVS. Check the outlet section of their site and you'll find good deals (it changes from day to day, so waiting for the exact sub you want is a good way to get a great deal). http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials
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Currently watching on: BenQ W1070, 82" 1.0 Gain Screen, PS3, with Yamaha RX-V473, SVS PB-1000, a Def Tech CS-8040HD, 2 SM65 for L/R, and 2 PM 800s for surrounds.
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post #31427 of 31923 Old 08-15-2014, 09:52 AM
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Around $500? Get SVS. Check the outlet section of their site and you'll find good deals (it changes from day to day, so waiting for the exact sub you want is a good way to get a great deal). http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials

Good to know! The challenge I have is that I am from Canada and 95% of the great deals are in the US, in Canada we get shafted

Edit: Forgot to mention I live in a condo for now. So I would prefer a small footprint.

Just saw the SVS PB 12 NSD that was huge!

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C: Def Tech - CLR2002
F: Def Tech - BP2002TL
S: Def Tech - BP1.2X
SB: Def Tech - PM400
Sub: Still looking

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post #31428 of 31923 Old 08-15-2014, 10:05 AM
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Good to know! The challenge I have is that I am from Canada and 95% of the great deals are in the US, in Canada we get shafted

Edit: Forgot to mention I live in a condo for now. So I would prefer a small footprint.

Just saw the SVS PB 12 NSD that was huge!
Check out the SB1000. It's a little closer to the size of a larger super cube and the reviews are awesome.

Full disclosure: I've only heard SVS cylinder subs in person but the quality was very impressive and you have the 45 day trial
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post #31429 of 31923 Old 08-15-2014, 10:32 AM
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Check out the SB1000. It's a little closer to the size of a larger super cube and the reviews are awesome.

Full disclosure: I've only heard SVS cylinder subs in person but the quality was very impressive and you have the 45 day trial
Thats more what I'm looking for 13" all around is a good size! Also price is good!

Thanks for the help so far folks now if I can find a deal in Canada.

Edit: Interesting no one recommended Def Tech subs... good to know

Denon 2809CI
C: Def Tech - CLR2002
F: Def Tech - BP2002TL
S: Def Tech - BP1.2X
SB: Def Tech - PM400
Sub: Still looking

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post #31430 of 31923 Old 08-15-2014, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAISKI View Post
Thats more what I'm looking for 13" all around is a good size! Also price is good!

Thanks for the help so far folks now if I can find a deal in Canada.

Edit: Interesting no one recommended Def Tech subs... good to know
I agree with the SVS choice. Also check out the HSU Research VTF-1. mK2. Definitely no to definitive technology subwoofers. And I was an owner
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post #31431 of 31923 Old 08-15-2014, 05:25 PM
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What should a sub from the pro cinema 600 set sell for?
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Originally Posted by BRAISKI View Post
Edit: Interesting no one recommended Def Tech subs... good to know
It's not that DT subs are bad. It's that they have a specific niche -- being very very small and light-- that results in a relatively poor price/performance ratio for buyers who don't need the smallest possible sub.

Turns out that making a sub small is a good way to make it expensive, and it's still subject to the laws of physics. A much less expensive route to deep, loud bass is simply to put larger drivers in a larger cabinet. If such a sub works for you in your room, it's a better way to go.
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post #31432 of 31923 Old 08-16-2014, 07:51 PM
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This is relevant to me. I just snagged some BP2004 off craigslist and about to hook them up and I'm not sure how. I have an Onkyo 607 7.2 and an Energy sub. Since I have a sub I was thinking of running Audessey and setting the fronts to small, and cross them at say 50hz.

I have 2 sub outputs. One is going to the dedicated sub while the other I got a y splitter and split the signal and hooked these up to the 2 Def techs low level input. Is that correct? Or should I run them large in my AVR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Glad to hear it

I looked at your receiver, set your fronts to full range and drop them to 40hz, then try your sub with both double base on and off just to see what sounds best.

As far as LFE use a dedicated sub, the low input RCA should be used with a Full Range pre-out anyway, not with LFE (Definitive has gone both ways with this connection over the years and found that Full Range is a better choice for this hook up)

If your receiver allows you to (I think it does) run both Pre-out and speaker level at the same time you can run from your R/L pre-outs to the low level input for each speaker (I don't remember the back panel for the 2006's but if it has jumper bars between the wire connectors make sure you remove the ones that connect the low's if you connect this way! Very Important!) Then just connect the mids and highs normally.

Try it this way and see what you think, some people like it better, some don't, I noticed more of a difference in my larger room than in my old small one, just choose the one you like. (Personally, if you don't have some spare cables around to try this, don't go crazy and buy some expensive cables, the difference may only be slight, May be none at all, or you may not like it, not a guaranteed improvement)
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post #31433 of 31923 Old 08-16-2014, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by J-e-L-L-o View Post
This is relevant to me. I just snagged some BP2004 off craigslist and about to hook them up and I'm not sure how. I have an Onkyo 607 7.2 and an Energy sub. Since I have a sub I was thinking of running Audessey and setting the fronts to small, and cross them at say 50hz.

I have 2 sub outputs. One is going to the dedicated sub while the other I got a y splitter and split the signal and hooked these up to the 2 Def techs low level input. Is that correct? Or should I run them large in my AVR?
Looks like the setup should be the same for yours as well, just remember if you use the pre-amp inputs for your low level signal, make sure you remove the jumper bars that connect the low speaker connections.
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post #31434 of 31923 Old 08-16-2014, 08:59 PM
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BP2004 Arent set up the same way, I don't think.

There is a high level input (I am using banana plugs) and an optional LFE input.
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post #31435 of 31923 Old 08-17-2014, 09:01 AM
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BP2004 Arent set up the same way, I don't think.

There is a high level input (I am using banana plugs) and an optional LFE input.
Sorry, didn't know for sure which back panel the 2004 has, in that case you can run them as is but you may want to try as suggested above, run from your full range pre-outs to the LFE input on your speaker, this will allow the low driver to work with all of the provided signal not just what is sent for LFE only, then just adjust with your level control, this is the difference that DefTech went back and forth on throughout the years, esp. since you have a dedicated sub.
Connecting this way won't hurt anything and should give you a "Fuller" overall sound, basically just listen and decide which you like best.
Even with the larger drivers than the 2006's the 10" woofer should react well to a full range signal, the ideas is that with the full range signal the blending of the 5.25's and the 10 should be a little smoother, again it's a matter of what you like best for your situation.
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post #31436 of 31923 Old 08-18-2014, 03:13 PM
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hello there! I hope someone can advise me as to what my best setting would b for all 5 of my Def Tech`s? I have BP2000-BP2004TL-CLR2300. Now I do not have any sub cables hooked up at present time . I did at one time was using the LFE. But it just didnt sound right when listening to music.? Im using a Pioneer 1222k. 125 watt class D amp. And let me tell anyone that doesn`t believe in Pioneer and D amp configuration? I can turn it up,and there is no fatigue at very high levels! Although it does have a tendency to have things come off the wall.lol.
sorry,I got off a bit.
Now can I connect the sub out or another rca output in the back of the AVR? I have heard of this ,connecting to an output rather the sub out?
That was first question? If i were to keep the sub in connected ,and I didnt want the lfe sig? Rather I want just the reg bass coming fro my the speaker wires ,and not from the sub? Only when I`m listening to music? Now if I turn down the sub channel level on the AVR to - 0 db? Will the bass now b coming from speaker wires only also?
Thank u ahead of time for ur help. Im kinda new at this ,and been out of HIFI for 20 plus yrs. Now I don`t have an old lady at present ,so Im loading up on HIFI gear while I can? lol. You all know what I mean??lol
An done last thing? Im thinking of rewplacing my speaker wires? Im presently using Monster Original OM BIG? Something like this? Its a 12 gauge ,but really 10. Its twisted and all. BUt I dont kn ow if it would really matter before I buy Audio Quest,Kimber cable?
Thank You, James C
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post #31437 of 31923 Old 08-18-2014, 06:50 PM
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This is what I heard ,and would like some info on this? Ive got BP2000,,,BP2004TL,,CLR2300.. Now i disconnected the LFE on all my speakers!! It made my whole system sound like crap! Im able to adjust the sub channel output on my Pioneer 1222k. If i connect with the rca output from my receiver,right? Im trying to get a visual picture here so as to try it? Im more finicky with my 2 channel ,so you can see why this matters to me? What rca are you talking about on the back of my AVR?
Thanks , James C
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post #31438 of 31923 Old 08-19-2014, 01:42 AM
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Hello, I have some new gear in the mail, was wondering if anyone could give me a starting "direction" on how I should set things?
In the mail: Yamaha RX-A840 AVR
DT PC 2000
DT PM 1000
SVS PC13-Ultra ( probably start with the 16hz tune)

From what I have seen, im going to start by letting the YAPO do its thing, set the EQ to flat / front - 80Hz bypass - and set the sub to LFE/ front. I'm guessing that's a good place to start? This generation AVR has a slightly different GUI to my Yamaha, so not sure how everything is laid out settings wise. hopefully I will get it all in about 2-3 days. Im assuming in a couple weeks time I will have to re-tune things after all the speakers break in? (re-run YAPO)

Thanks!
-Andre
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post #31439 of 31923 Old 08-19-2014, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabsim View Post
This is what I heard ,and would like some info on this? Ive got BP2000,,,BP2004TL,,CLR2300.. Now i disconnected the LFE on all my speakers!! It made my whole system sound like crap! Im able to adjust the sub channel output on my Pioneer 1222k. If i connect with the rca output from my receiver,right? Im trying to get a visual picture here so as to try it? Im more finicky with my 2 channel ,so you can see why this matters to me? What rca are you talking about on the back of my AVR?
Thanks , James C
Your 1222 is basically the same as my 1522 so best I can figure you need to change your receiver settings in a different way than what you did.
Sounds like you were using the subs on your mains and not using a separate dedicated sub, so yes just unhooking them will give you no base at all, so here's what you can do for that.
Speakers, 2 options(other than the way you had them)
1) Instead of running the LFE into the low input of your speakers, run RCA from your receivers individual speaker pre-amp outputs to the low input RCA on your speakers (if they have jumper bars with separate connections for mids/highs/low then make sure you remove the bars between the mid & low)
Then run speaker wire to the other speaker wire connections
or
Simply run speaker wire only to the speaker wire connections. (Re-connect your jumpers if you have them)
These are the 2 ways to wire your speakers.
Then you'll need to change and/or verify some settings on your receiver.
the manual speaker setup you'll want "all" of your speaker positions set to Large (because of the speakers you're using) and drop all the crossovers as low as they will go, then make sure your sub is set to NO/OFF, don't just run the level to 0, if your not running anything connected to the sub output it needs to be that way for all of the low signals to be sent to your other speakers instead of just being filtered out. (which is what you experienced)
if you do run it this way, you really do need to add a dedicated sub also for HT.
Basically, your crossover, sub and small/large settings are controlling which part of the signal goes where, with those speakers you can have the entire range of the signal go to each speaker if you like.

See if you like it this way.
(Don't forget to also play with the adjustments on the speakers themselves when you're doing your listening test, these adjustments will help individually tune your speakers further)

Last edited by ALtlOff; 08-19-2014 at 02:27 AM.
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post #31440 of 31923 Old 08-19-2014, 12:28 PM
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One last thing atLoff? The latter part of your recommendation? The crossover,and sub output? Can u please clarify some more? Thanks James C
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