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post #31441 of 31464 Old 08-19-2014, 11:28 AM
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One last thing atLoff? The latter part of your recommendation? The crossover,and sub output? Can u please clarify some more? Thanks James C
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post #31442 of 31464 Old 08-20-2014, 11:48 PM
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One last thing atLoff? The latter part of your recommendation? The crossover,and sub output? Can u please clarify some more? Thanks James C
Basically (very basically since things differ from receiver to receiver)

Small/Large: This setting tells your receiver whether the speaker in that position will handle frequencies in the lower ranges or not. (Small=No Large=Yes)

Crossover Point: Where the receiver will start to roll off/cut the signal/frequency to that speaker.

Sub Setting: This has to do with whether your using a separate sub or not.
No/Off: tells the receiver that you're not using a separate sub to send the low frequencies to the other speakers, which ones will be determined by the Small/Large setting
Yes/On tells the receiver that you are using a separate sub and you want the frequencies from a certain point and down, sent to the subwoofer only.
Both/Plus/Double: Tells the receiver that you want the low frequency signals sent to both a Sub and the speakers set to Large.

In your case, with the speakers you're using, they can all be set to Large as they will all handle Low frequency signals well.

Hope that's what you were asking.

(I sent you a quick PM also)

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post #31443 of 31464 Old 08-21-2014, 09:18 PM
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Okay! I've got it! I finally got my reverb set! I have them placed accordingly. Thank u for all the help atLoff.. And let me tell u fellow Def Heads. If u ever get the chance to own a pair of BP2000??? Get them!!! I haven't heard speakers that I didn't have to close my eyes for Stevie Knicks to sing right at me from 70% of my room!!! It's taken six straight hrs to get it right.
I tell you fellows. I wouldn't trade these speakers for two wives ,and a dog!!
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post #31444 of 31464 Old 08-22-2014, 10:00 AM
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Looking for a little advice on narrowing down used speaker choices:

I am finding several BP7006 and 2006 available for about the same price, and BP10 (or BP10B not sure) for very close

There is a a pair of BP7004 for about twice as much as the above listed

I plan on getting a good sub either way. (leaning towards SVS, maybe Hsu)

I have a line on a Mythos Ten for center so I was planning on picking that up. (I emailed Def Tech and they thought this would match well with the 700x series. Forgot to ask about the BP10 compatibility). Rear surrounds will come later.

Setup will be mostly for movies but I still want music to sound good. Would I be losing/gaining anything by going to the BP10 speaker instead of something powered? And any comments/suggestions on these choices?
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post #31445 of 31464 Old 08-22-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFoZ View Post
Looking for a little advice on narrowing down used speaker choices:

I am finding several BP7006 and 2006 available for about the same price, and BP10 (or BP10B not sure) for very close

There is a a pair of BP7004 for about twice as much as the above listed

I plan on getting a good sub either way. (leaning towards SVS, maybe Hsu)

I have a line on a Mythos Ten for center so I was planning on picking that up. (I emailed Def Tech and they thought this would match well with the 700x series. Forgot to ask about the BP10 compatibility). Rear surrounds will come later.

Setup will be mostly for movies but I still want music to sound good. Would I be losing/gaining anything by going to the BP10 speaker instead of something powered? And any comments/suggestions on these choices?

Since you're planning on a separate sub I would look at it this way.
For mostly music, the BP-10, but for mostly movies, go with the 7006's or 2006's, the powered woofer are IMO, a huge addition when it comes to movies, great base fill up front for the non-LFE low content, and gives you a little more flexibility with your sub placement.

(The only reason I don't say the 7004's is unless your getting them ridiculously cheap, the difference isn't worth twice the price, but even up or maybe even +20% then the 7004's, I've always preferred a 5.25 over a 4.5 for movies and music)
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post #31446 of 31464 Old 08-23-2014, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Sorry, didn't know for sure which back panel the 2004 has, in that case you can run them as is but you may want to try as suggested above, run from your full range pre-outs to the LFE input on your speaker, this will allow the low driver to work with all of the provided signal not just what is sent for LFE only, then just adjust with your level control, this is the difference that DefTech went back and forth on throughout the years, esp. since you have a dedicated sub.
Connecting this way won't hurt anything and should give you a "Fuller" overall sound, basically just listen and decide which you like best.
Even with the larger drivers than the 2006's the 10" woofer should react well to a full range signal, the ideas is that with the full range signal the blending of the 5.25's and the 10 should be a little smoother, again it's a matter of what you like best for your situation.
My Onkyo was giving me problems and turns out it was failing. Had to buy a new receiver. Got a brand new Sony and hooked everything up. Set Fronts to Full everything else to small, and subwoofer yes. Def Tech has some amazing speakers. I am really happy with my new set up finally. BP2004 as L R and SM 350 for center and surrounds. The bass is nice and tight, blends extremely well with my sub.

Thanks a million for the advice.
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post #31447 of 31464 Old 08-24-2014, 02:45 AM
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For those of you interested in Atmos, the Def Tech A60 Atmos add-on modules should be available in 2 weeks and the Denon AVR-X5200W with Atmos on-board (ie. no firmware update required) is shipping this week.

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post #31448 of 31464 Old 08-24-2014, 08:44 PM
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Ugh. I am still no closer to making a decision on fronts. I am leaning towards the 8080st simply because they are easier to find and cheaper and newer/refurb'd. I get a slight feeling i would b missing out on impact/immersion from either the 7000sc or 7001 tho. Grr. I get lots of lfe from my subs however. Ugh decisions. I could demo the 8060st's but idk what that tells me for the 8080st's

It is only 1600 cu.ft room but i dont believe in overkill unless it actually has a negative impact on the sound.

Hmm. Lots of grr's and ugh's in here. Back surgery has made me a monosyllabic caveman, apparently.

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post #31449 of 31464 Old 08-25-2014, 11:47 AM
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Extend ProMoniters or Buy an LCR soundbar?

I have a 2.1 system now with a Marantz 1402 Receiver driving only two Pro Monitor 1000s for my left and rights. TV sits on 5' long fireplace mantle with speakers on either side. I'm ready to spend for an upgrade, solely for better, or better yet, crystal clear movie dialog, and I'm hardly an audiophile. We rarely listen to only music. Dialog is OK for older movies in stereo, not so good for newer movies with more advanced sound. We sit 12' away, centered on the TV. Here are my options....where would you spend the extra dollars for better dialog? Money is a fairly secondary consideration.

1. Add a Pro Center 1000, just below the mantel. Wife reluctantly accepts this solution, but under protest. But it is the lowest cost.

2. Same as 1 above, but go for the Pro Center 2000. Will be a real argument and it costs more and is significantly larger, but I'll do battle if your opinion is that the dialog will be noticeably better. I know this a subjective question.

3. Buy a passive LCR soundbar, either by Definitive or Golden Ear. (The Golden Ear gets rave reviews for music, but I'm not sure about dialog.) Mount just below mantle. Convert existing Pro Monitor 1000s to left and right surrounds, located on shelves 10 ft on either side of TV, for a true 5.1 setup. We are getting into more money and wiring effort here, but my better half likes the aesthetics of the sound bars, as it gives the mantle a cleaner appearance, as it is the focal point of the room.

4. A wild idea purists will howl about. We sell the Marantz receiver and the two Pro Monitors, and go with a powered Sonos Playbar, mounted just below the mantle. Aesthetics look good, and it appears we can simplify our multiplicity-of - remotes situation greatly. We'll compromise on the overall sound a bit, if dialog is as good as the other above solutions.

5. A fifth question: the Marantz is "only" 50 watts per channel, but I'm told Marantz ratings are "honest" wattages, while many other manufacturers cheat. Does the Marantz have enough power to operate the above solutions without distortion? We never play movies or other programming loud.

6. And final question: for Options 1 or 2, where I just add a new center speaker in the center of the mantle: Should I keep the existing lefts and rights as is, or move them off the mantle and put them on shelves some 10' from the TV on either side. A bit of work, but I'll do it for dialog improvment. (I read a post somewhere opining that the separate L, C and R speakers clustered together muddies the dialog and that more separation is much preferred)

Again, I'm not that concerned about money....I simply want to go through this aggravation only once. Your opinions are appreciated. Thank you.
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post #31450 of 31464 Old 08-26-2014, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BillTiernan View Post
I have a 2.1 system now with a Marantz 1402 Receiver driving only two Pro Monitor 1000s for my left and rights. TV sits on 5' long fireplace mantle with speakers on either side. I'm ready to spend for an upgrade, solely for better, or better yet, crystal clear movie dialog, and I'm hardly an audiophile. We rarely listen to only music. Dialog is OK for older movies in stereo, not so good for newer movies with more advanced sound. We sit 12' away, centered on the TV. Here are my options....where would you spend the extra dollars for better dialog? Money is a fairly secondary consideration.

1. Add a Pro Center 1000, just below the mantel. Wife reluctantly accepts this solution, but under protest. But it is the lowest cost.

2. Same as 1 above, but go for the Pro Center 2000. Will be a real argument and it costs more and is significantly larger, but I'll do battle if your opinion is that the dialog will be noticeably better. I know this a subjective question.

3. Buy a passive LCR soundbar, either by Definitive or Golden Ear. (The Golden Ear gets rave reviews for music, but I'm not sure about dialog.) Mount just below mantle. Convert existing Pro Monitor 1000s to left and right surrounds, located on shelves 10 ft on either side of TV, for a true 5.1 setup. We are getting into more money and wiring effort here, but my better half likes the aesthetics of the sound bars, as it gives the mantle a cleaner appearance, as it is the focal point of the room.

4. A wild idea purists will howl about. We sell the Marantz receiver and the two Pro Monitors, and go with a powered Sonos Playbar, mounted just below the mantle. Aesthetics look good, and it appears we can simplify our multiplicity-of - remotes situation greatly. We'll compromise on the overall sound a bit, if dialog is as good as the other above solutions.

5. A fifth question: the Marantz is "only" 50 watts per channel, but I'm told Marantz ratings are "honest" wattages, while many other manufacturers cheat. Does the Marantz have enough power to operate the above solutions without distortion? We never play movies or other programming loud.

6. And final question: for Options 1 or 2, where I just add a new center speaker in the center of the mantle: Should I keep the existing lefts and rights as is, or move them off the mantle and put them on shelves some 10' from the TV on either side. A bit of work, but I'll do it for dialog improvment. (I read a post somewhere opining that the separate L, C and R speakers clustered together muddies the dialog and that more separation is much preferred)

Again, I'm not that concerned about money....I simply want to go through this aggravation only once. Your opinions are appreciated. Thank you.
2 over 1, the PC2000 is just a better sounding piece.

3.) For high WAF do this and look for a good deal on a Mythos XTR SSA3. (To stay with DefTech)

4.) You just said this to aggravate us into answering your post....lol

5.) It's actually fine for what you're looking to do.

6.) Keep them where they are, your other option is too far apart.
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post #31451 of 31464 Old 08-26-2014, 09:22 AM
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Much obliged for your opinions ALtlOff.

I'm leaning towards your suggestion for the Mythos XTR SSA 3 soundbar (with the present Pro Monitor 1000s now becoming left and right surrounds).....in your humble opinion, will this setup yield the same, better, or worse dialog than if I simply added the Procenter 2000? A tough question I know, but I'm just a newbie.
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post #31452 of 31464 Old 08-26-2014, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
Ugh. I am still no closer to making a decision on fronts. I am leaning towards the 8080st simply because they are easier to find and cheaper and newer/refurb'd. I get a slight feeling i would b missing out on impact/immersion from either the 7000sc or 7001 tho. Grr. I get lots of lfe from my subs however. Ugh decisions. I could demo the 8060st's but idk what that tells me for the 8080st's

It is only 1600 cu.ft room but i dont believe in overkill unless it actually has a negative impact on the sound.

Hmm. Lots of grr's and ugh's in here. Back surgery has made me a monosyllabic caveman, apparently.

I'd say it really depends on your room size. The 7000SC and 7001SC will play louder all day long over the 8060 and 8080, but I think the 8060 sounds great for a medium size room, especially if you have limited space and have the speaker by walls. If your considering the 8080 vs 8060, I recommend that you audition both. Crossovers, etc. are different between models.
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post #31453 of 31464 Old 08-26-2014, 12:30 PM
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I'd say it really depends on your room size. The 7000SC and 7001SC will play louder all day long over the 8060 and 8080, but I think the 8060 sounds great for a medium size room, especially if you have limited space and have the speaker by walls. If your considering the 8080 vs 8060, I recommend that you audition both. Crossovers, etc. are different between models.
If going with the new models, it would be the 8080 not the 8060. I'd like the best/loudest/most immersive sound i can get between the models (8080st / 7001sc). I can only demo the 8060 out of all of them, and even then the conditions will consist of a BBY Magnolia...not the best.

One of the concerns I have is the towers will be the only BP speakers of the bunch. The room is a basic rectangle, 1600 cu.ft, openings at rear (opposite tv/frontstage) and on the right wall (if looking at tv). If only running BP units for LR, would it be better to use the more "forward focused" newer models vs the previous? I don't know.

The 8080st's only weight 66lbs ea, while the 7001's are almost double ea...that says a lot to me. While they are both not new, i'm not sure how much of the "new" technology in the 8080's will make up for the lack of girth vs the 7001's. While I know the 7001's are going to be louder, is that louder going to be a better sound?

I wish I could just demo them and be done with it lol.
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post #31454 of 31464 Old 08-26-2014, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BillTiernan View Post
Much obliged for your opinions ALtlOff.

I'm leaning towards your suggestion for the Mythos XTR SSA 3 soundbar (with the present Pro Monitor 1000s now becoming left and right surrounds).....in your humble opinion, will this setup yield the same, better, or worse dialog than if I simply added the Procenter 2000? A tough question I know, but I'm just a newbie.
I haven't heard the SSA3, was basically suggesting it for the WAF, but I have had both the PC-1000 & PC-2000, the 2000 has a richer, fuller tone to it, seems a little more natural when it came to voices, also the PC-2000 is an exact driver match for the PM-1000's.

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post #31455 of 31464 Old 08-26-2014, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
For those of you interested in Atmos, the Def Tech A60 Atmos add-on modules should be available in 2 weeks and the Denon AVR-X5200W with Atmos on-board (ie. no firmware update required) is shipping this week.
Be curious to see what impressions people have of the A60 modules.

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post #31456 of 31464 Old 08-27-2014, 10:09 AM
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Ok; if terms can be agreed upon, I'm going to go with the BP7001SC's and the CLR3000 for center vs the 8080st/SM65center. I'm also going to get some wireless kits for the rear SM45's and also for the subs...whenever I can start moving things like that around, I want to get them away from the frontstage to give the LR the space they'll likely need. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure the CLR3000 will fit on my stand where the current SM's are. Will have to start mathing this up...

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post #31457 of 31464 Old 08-27-2014, 01:27 PM
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...I'm also going to get some wireless kits for the rear SM45's and also for the subs...
Wait, what?

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post #31458 of 31464 Old 08-27-2014, 01:34 PM
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Wait, what?
I'm likely going to get wireless sub kits for my 2 subs, as I'd like to move them out of the frontstage and nearer the main listening area, by the sofas. I may be able to just run the wires though, I haven't really gotten my hands dirty looking for ways to route the wires yet.

And, i was under the impression I could use a wireless speaker kit for the SM45's, as I would move them from the current position (as L/R) into the rear for surrounds. Unless that's not something that's possible...is it not? I don't really know yet, the room is pretty small so finding a proper wiring route under the floor (drop ceiling in basement) may be the best route, after all.

It's all just guesswork until I can actually move around. idle hands...and all that.

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post #31459 of 31464 Old 08-27-2014, 02:08 PM
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In order to implement wireless for surround speakers, you need either powered speakers (ie, not SM45s) or amplifiers installed at the surround locations. By the time you get done connecting the amplifiers to the speakers and powering the amplifiers at the surround locations, you'd have been better off just running speaker wire from the AVR in most situations. Plus, consider that you already have some very good amplifiers for the surround channels built into your AVR which will go to waste, because now you have to use the cheap-jack amplifiers built into the surround kit to power your surround speakers.

Not to mention that there are no wireless solutions that can match the fidelity and reliability of a simple length of speaker wire. Bluetooth is subject to audible compression. Other RF solutions are subject to interference.

It's a little less critical with a sub, which at least does have its own amplifier and which, due to the nature of the signals, makes RF interference and dropouts less noticeable. Still...

[Not a fan of wireless audio. IMO one dropout ever is one too many.]

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post #31460 of 31464 Old 08-27-2014, 03:06 PM
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In order to implement wireless for surround speakers, you need either powered speakers (ie, not SM45s) or amplifiers installed at the surround locations. By the time you get done connecting the amplifiers to the speakers and powering the amplifiers at the surround locations, you'd have been better off just running speaker wire from the AVR in most situations. Plus, consider that you already have some very good amplifiers for the surround channels built into your AVR which will go to waste, because now you have to use the cheap-jack amplifiers built into the surround kit to power your surround speakers.

Not to mention that there are no wireless solutions that can match the fidelity and reliability of a simple length of speaker wire. Bluetooth is subject to audible compression. Other RF solutions are subject to interference.

It's a little less critical with a sub, which at least does have its own amplifier and which, due to the nature of the signals, makes RF interference and dropouts less noticeable. Still...

[Not a fan of wireless audio. IMO one dropout ever is one too many.]
That makes sense. I agree about dropout, also. I know there are some fairly bass-heavy members on here that use wireless solutions so that is why I considered it. I just assumed a wireless kit for speakers would work well too...but being that not a lot of people use them...it's starting to click haha.

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post #31461 of 31464 Old 08-28-2014, 10:16 AM
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Hate to dbl post and possibly jinx things, as the last time I got excited about a user/user purchase on the forums here it fell through...but damn if I can't help being all giddy. BP7001SC and CLR3000 replacing the SM45 and SM65 should make for a heck of a good time. I can't wait!

Now I just need to figure out what to do with the SM65. perhaps store for now, and get another at somepoint for LR downstairs in the kids' game room. Or buy another one and use for rear surrounds vs the SM45's. Or, just not do that and stop spending money for a minute lol. Will have to buy the wife a substantial bday present to cover this one...

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post #31462 of 31464 Old 08-28-2014, 08:32 PM
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Hate to dbl post and possibly jinx things, as the last time I got excited about a user/user purchase on the forums here it fell through...but damn if I can't help being all giddy. BP7001SC and CLR3000 replacing the SM45 and SM65 should make for a heck of a good time. I can't wait!

Now I just need to figure out what to do with the SM65. perhaps store for now, and get another at somepoint for LR downstairs in the kids' game room. Or buy another one and use for rear surrounds vs the SM45's. Or, just not do that and stop spending money for a minute lol. Will have to buy the wife a substantial bday present to cover this one...
Cool man, let us know how you like them compared to your SM65 setup. Don't crank it too loud
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post #31463 of 31464 Old 08-28-2014, 11:32 PM
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Hate to dbl post and possibly jinx things, as the last time I got excited about a user/user purchase on the forums here it fell through...but damn if I can't help being all giddy. BP7001SC and CLR3000 replacing the SM45 and SM65 should make for a heck of a good time. I can't wait!

Now I just need to figure out what to do with the SM65. perhaps store for now, and get another at somepoint for LR downstairs in the kids' game room. Or buy another one and use for rear surrounds vs the SM45's. Or, just not do that and stop spending money for a minute lol. Will have to buy the wife a substantial bday present to cover this one...
IMO, leave the 45's as your surrounds, and buy one more 65 for a separate, music only space.

While the 65's would absolutely work for surrounds, don't forget your surround channels have less information going to them than your front 3, and since you have a sub the 45's will absolutely cover what is needed for the surrounds.
And since the 65's are so good musically (much better than the 45's) you might as well take advantage of that.
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post #31464 of 31464 Old Yesterday, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
IMO, leave the 45's as your surrounds, and buy one more 65 for a separate, music only space.

While the 65's would absolutely work for surrounds, don't forget your surround channels have less information going to them than your front 3, and since you have a sub the 45's will absolutely cover what is needed for the surrounds.
And since the 65's are so good musically (much better than the 45's) you might as well take advantage of that.
That makes a ton of sense. Thank you very much!

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post #31465 of 31464 Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM
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I have been using 3 SM 65's and 2 SM 45's in a 5.1 set up and have really enjoyed. But I never really used this same set up to listen too much music. Though I do have much more experience with the 350's and 450's with music and have always thought them to be very enjoyable.

Over the last week or so, I've been AB testing my SM 65's with some Pinnacle DB 650 II's I recently got. And in music I'm finding the SM 65's to be almost a little muddy, maybe from a combo of heavy midbass and not as bright of a tweeter as I expected. I still have much playing with them to do, and have not taking any technical measurements yet, thought I will at some point.

In the end my experience does not seem to be in line with others regarding the SM 65's or my past experience with the 350 and 450.
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