Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1052 - AVS Forum
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post #31531 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 08:29 AM
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I have a pair of BP10's i bought maybe 12 years ago... i have hated them since day one and they only get used for games when people are over.. i just think bipoles arn't for me maybe.. i even like my very cheap acoustic research more. Just an opinion since i saw this thread
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post #31532 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
The fact that it can't run calibration definitely concerns me. However, no lights on the amp panels of either tower concerns me too; anyone know what that means? I'm going to be calling DT after my phone charges. Are there any other fuses on the towers other than the one in the back? Both of those seem fine.

If it were a fuse, would it work at all? Low volume seems fine. This is the second X1000 I've had in less than a year. If it turns out to be the AVR, I'm likely going to be taking some serious looks elsewhere before getting another Denon...I've got this posted in the AVR section as well so we'll see...
I don't know if you got an owners manual with them or not but here's the link to the document archive:

http://www.definitivetech.com/education/documents

You can see the manual in pdf anyway, maybe it'll give you some insight, but I'm also under the opinion that it's not the AVR's power output, go back to only connecting your center, test it, then connect only one speaker, test it, disconnect that one and try the other one, on it's own, see what you get.

Also, your probably looking at manual calibration too, many times the Bi-Polar design plays he'll with auto EQ setups.
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post #31533 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
I don't know if you got an owners manual with them or not but here's the link to the document archive:

http://www.definitivetech.com/education/documents

You can see the manual in pdf anyway, maybe it'll give you some insight, but I'm also under the opinion that it's not the AVR's power output, go back to only connecting your center, test it, then connect only one speaker, test it, disconnect that one and try the other one, on it's own, see what you get.

Also, your probably looking at manual calibration too, many times the Bi-Polar design plays he'll with auto EQ setups.
I was just looking at the manual. I think I'm going to test all OTHER speakers first, as the center test shuts the avr down. I'm going to make sure all speakers are wired identically (like I mentioned the jumper plate differences) and go from there...after some more reading. I would hope even the little 80 or 85watts /channel would be able to drive things at loud levels w/o shutting down the avr...would be nice if there were less variables to start with but I suppose I'll just have to start eliminating them sequentially (with everyone's help, of course) haha.

thanks

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post #31534 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 09:09 AM
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Ok. So I have learned that the red lights on the back of the amp are strictly for the low input/internal subs. if they aren't getting a signal from the avr, they no light up. I thought the one that said power (auto on/off) was supposed to be on as long as the unit was plugged in. not so. the more you know (shooting star). That takes one thing off the list.

When I run test tones through the avr, only the rear firing speakers are emitting sound on the towers. idk if that's right...but looking into.

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post #31535 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 09:50 AM
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Front to rear should be even, sounds like an internal short, and it's playing havoc with the protection circuitry in your AVR.

Not sure, but would make sense also if your AVR shared the same amp on front three.

Also, power rating the 7001's 30-600w, so no problems there.

Last edited by ALtlOff; 09-11-2014 at 09:59 AM.
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post #31536 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Front to rear should be even, sounds like an internal short, and it's playing havoc with the protection circuitry in your AVR.

Not sure, but would make sense also if your AVR shared the same amp on front three.

Also, power rating the 7001's 30-600w, so no problems there.
I just took all front drivers out of the towers/center. tested with a direct connection to the avr. all work. looking like an xo issue in at least both towers. Going to take a look at those next. As far as the center, I know at least the woofer and mids are working, but the volume levels seem to be lacking by quite a bit. speakers work (testing tweeter next), so that may be an xo issue as well. lol wth...

I haven't pulled this many socks up/down since working at the assisted living center. assisted living center...those are things, right? lol

EDIT: attached pics of all 3 XO's. Only one looks like it may have damage (Right Front), the other two look ok, for the most part. The center has straight up pink insulation in it lol. I can't believe this stuff just sits on top of electronics/circuit boards (the towers have less abrasive white foam/sponge type material). Attached some pics of the destroyed driver too for your enjoyment. I don't know what's going on with this center channel...or towers, for that matter. still digging. Thanks for your help.
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DT BP7001SC (LR)
DT CLR3000 (C)
DT SM45 (Rears)
2x PSA XV15se (SW)
Denon AVR X1000

Last edited by drwinlied; 09-11-2014 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Now, with pics!
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post #31537 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 12:22 PM
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AtLoff,I just replaced all the internal wire with Silver coated 14 awg 19 strand ,Teflon coated wire. I can definitely hear a sonic improvement!! Now could it b that there 20 yrs old? Perhaps? Could it b maybe that Def Tech uses then tin 18 age wire for there woofer connection. The rest is cable tech 18awg wire.I'm surprised at them!! But hey ,they still sound great with tin wire.lol..Seriously,this it did make a sonic improvement. And AtLoff I got my highs back with this?
You know I was once a sceptic. I didn't believe in diff with copper wire? But I think it makes a big diff!! When u use really good
Pure materials? It's always going to make an improvement? Up to u if u can tell the nuances??

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post #31538 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 04:21 PM
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well, here's what I've learned so far about DT's BP7001sc towers (I have yet to confirm any of this with DT, which I will do tomorrow and report back, but my real life has confirmed it so far):
* FedEx hates them
* If 1 of the 2 drivers on front or back is not hooked up/working...neither driver will produce sound
* If you do not have the low/high inputs jumped/bridged, only the rear firing speakers will fire (whichever you have connected, low or high, naturally)

here's what I've learned so far about DT's CLR3000 center speaker:
* There may be fiberglass insulation inside
* If you place roughly 20 packing peanuts inside the actual speaker, it will sound terrible at moderate/loud decibels
* The actual number of packing peanuts likely doesn't matter, as any number =/= 0 will sound terrible at moderate/loud decibels

I hope to learn more about these majestic relics after feeding my minions with which I share my humble dwelling. That's all for now. Looking like I need at least 1 driver, 1 tweeter, and a 10" woofer eventually(it presents a good deal of resistance and produces much audible displeasure when manually pushing it in). Anyone know the best way to "un-pop" out a center dome? You know, the condition so many speakers on display in retail stores suffer from (Kid: "OOoooooh a soft bubble" *poke).

DT BP7001SC (LR)
DT CLR3000 (C)
DT SM45 (Rears)
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post #31539 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post
Technically they are bi-directional but not to the extent of the older towers. The newer towers have dual mid range drivers in a MTM configuration while the rear facing only has one mid range and one tweeter with a -3db output compared to the front of the speaker and DT says it's used mostly as ambience effect and not like the older towers where the front mid range woofers and tweeters equalled the rear and gave the same output in both directions hence why I commented that you won't get the same bi-directional effect as the older towers as you will with the 8040 or 8060.

My comment on buying the SM450 or LCR 2000/2002 is yes they aren't bi-directional but you will find placement to be easier and combining with a SVS will blow the doors off any tower speaker in the DT lineup (yes even the BP7000). So you will be able to play the mid range and tweeter louder without compromise and then have it send anything lower than 80Hz to the SVS it's sitting on for even tighter mid bass and lower bass frequencies than the 8040 or 8060 could ever hope to achieve. Using this combo as your mains would be stellar and something I wish I had done instead of buying my 7001's
A couple of comments here. A person needs to demo say a 70xx speaker against the newer 80xx speaker. You may perfer the more forward sounding 80xx speakers.

Maybe now is not the time to go cheap. Buy the best towers you can now and add the sub down the road (or vice versa).

Personally I run the 8060 fronts and center with a SVS cylinder and couldn't be happier. And like Johnny Cash I did it one piece at a time as the money was available.

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post #31540 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
well, here's what I've learned so far about DT's BP7001sc towers (I have yet to confirm any of this with DT, which I will do tomorrow and report back, but my real life has confirmed it so far):
* FedEx hates them
* If 1 of the 2 drivers on front or back is not hooked up/working...neither driver will produce sound
* If you do not have the low/high inputs jumped/bridged, only the rear firing speakers will fire (whichever you have connected, low or high, naturally)

here's what I've learned so far about DT's CLR3000 center speaker:
* There may be fiberglass insulation inside
* If you place roughly 20 packing peanuts inside the actual speaker, it will sound terrible at moderate/loud decibels
* The actual number of packing peanuts likely doesn't matter, as any number =/= 0 will sound terrible at moderate/loud decibels

I hope to learn more about these majestic relics after feeding my minions with which I share my humble dwelling. That's all for now. Looking like I need at least 1 driver, 1 tweeter, and a 10" woofer eventually(it presents a good deal of resistance and produces much audible displeasure when manually pushing it in). Anyone know the best way to "un-pop" out a center dome? You know, the condition so many speakers on display in retail stores suffer from (Kid: "OOoooooh a soft bubble" *poke).
Many years ago I was part of a thread on how to pop out a tweeter that was pushed in. My suggestion brought a lot of laughs but somebody tried it and it worked. Another member then took a pic by pic tutorial and many people thanked me on the easy solution.

First take an empty cardboard tiolet paper roll. Place one end over the pushed in tweeter and make sure it sits snug against the speaker box and the opening is around the tweeter. On the other end place your mouth and suck as hard as you can and viola it will pop back out.

Sounds stupid but works like a charm. I don't like the vacuum cleaner method as it has too much suction and may tear the tweeter but your mouth has just enough pressure to suck out any pushed in tweeter. I had bought a pair of used BP-10's that until I got home discovered that three of the four tweeters had been pushed in. I was sitting there pondering how to fix this issue when nature called and inspiration struck.


It works great though.
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post #31541 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drwinlied View Post
well what a crapfest this is turning out to be. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Apparently the Denon X1000 isn't enough AVR to power these. It auto-shuts off during Audyssey on the Center channel. Now neither tower has lights on the back of the amp panel. So...I play a BD (prometheus) that ends up sounding like utter crap (which is the BD players fault...I will be returning)...I then put in the ol' DVD copy in the 360 and get through about 1minute of the intro at movie listening levels (-70; for whatever that's worth) and it sounds great...then the AVR shuts down again. I'm so frustrated right now...at this point I can't even listen to movies at the levels I was previously.

So...as I suspected...my AVR seems to not be up to task(?). What are the best/cheapest/most effective next steps here. I swear I'm ready to throw in the towel already lol

Have you checked to make sure there isn't a stray speaker wire touching another speaker wire which will cause your avr to shut down after a minute.
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post #31542 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by agg133 View Post
SM350 it is! It's nice that the better speaker is the cheaper one too. For the sub, I was thinking of getting a supercube 2000 or 4000. From bajawaverunner, they would be $310 and $530 respectively. Do you guys think the 4000 is worth the extra cost over the 2000?

P.S. - I've read around the forums and I know most think that other brands, like SVS, make better subwoofers at this price point. While that may be true, I'm crazy OCD about having all my speakers from the same company and having them match aesthetically, which is why I'm getting the supercube
Screw OCD take it from experience get the SVS. It is 10X better sub with far tighter and lower frequency handling. There is no reason whatsoever that a sub needs to be from the same company as your speakers. None!!!!! I can't stress that enough. Your gonna be all smiles and enjoy the SVS far more than the DT subs.
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post #31543 of 31556 Old 09-11-2014, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post
Screw OCD take it from experience get the SVS. It is 10X better sub with far tighter and lower frequency handling. There is no reason whatsoever that a sub needs to be from the same company as your speakers. None!!!!! I can't stress that enough. Your gonna be all smiles and enjoy the SVS far more than the DT subs.
Anyone who reads my posts knows how much of a DT fan I am, but I whole heartedly agree, original 2 were bought new, all those years ago, and the only reason I added another one is that it was an exact match aestheticly and I got it on the cheap, hell I'll end up spending more on paint in my room than I did on the last sub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabsim View Post
AtLoff,I just replaced all the internal wire with Silver coated 14 awg 19 strand ,Teflon coated wire. I can definitely hear a sonic improvement!! Now could it b that there 20 yrs old? Perhaps? Could it b maybe that Def Tech uses then tin 18 age wire for there woofer connection. The rest is cable tech 18awg wire.I'm surprised at them!! But hey ,they still sound great with tin wire.lol..Seriously,this it did make a sonic improvement. And AtLoff I got my highs back with this?
You know I was once a sceptic. I didn't believe in diff with copper wire? But I think it makes a big diff!! When u use really good
Pure materials? It's always going to make an improvement? Up to u if u can tell the nuances??
Glad to hear it, this may have to be one of those "dead of winter" projects for me, too many irons in the fire already.

Last edited by ALtlOff; 09-11-2014 at 10:55 PM.
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post #31544 of 31556 Old 09-12-2014, 03:24 AM
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I'am adding an SVS PC12-NSD to my HT which includes Def Tech BP-8060ST/CS-8060HD/SR-8040BP. Once I add the sub and tell my AVR that I do have a subwoofer what is the best way to dial in the bass control on the back of the 8060ST's? I plan on the 8060ST's to be set to small with 40Hz crossover.

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post #31545 of 31556 Old 09-12-2014, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ThePrisoner View Post
I'am adding an SVS PC12-NSD to my HT which includes Def Tech BP-8060ST/CS-8060HD/SR-8040BP. Once I add the sub and tell my AVR that I do have a subwoofer what is the best way to dial in the bass control on the back of the 8060ST's? I plan on the 8060ST's to be set to small with 40Hz crossover.
There is no real "best" way, the most important part will be to have your sub setup and the location that it's going to stay in, once that's done just start experimenting.
Since is only a level control, it'll all be up to what sounds best to "you", but yes the sub setup and positioning will change things acoustically in your room, so that does need to be done first.
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post #31546 of 31556 Old 09-12-2014, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post
Many years ago I was part of a thread on how to pop out a tweeter that was pushed in. My suggestion brought a lot of laughs but somebody tried it and it worked. Another member then took a pic by pic tutorial and many people thanked me on the easy solution.

First take an empty cardboard tiolet paper roll. Place one end over the pushed in tweeter and make sure it sits snug against the speaker box and the opening is around the tweeter. On the other end place your mouth and suck as hard as you can and viola it will pop back out.

Sounds stupid but works like a charm. I don't like the vacuum cleaner method as it has too much suction and may tear the tweeter but your mouth has just enough pressure to suck out any pushed in tweeter. I had bought a pair of used BP-10's that until I got home discovered that three of the four tweeters had been pushed in. I was sitting there pondering how to fix this issue when nature called and inspiration struck.


It works great though.
nailed it. I found one of the domes of the drivers to be popped in when I was testing everything. I actually thought of both lung power and vacuum power and decided lung power was the best option...but I didn't have the tool part figured out...I did learn that, despite what I had pictured in my head, my face/mouth does not fit perfectly over/into a speaker of that size lol. Thank you so much!

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Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post
Have you checked to make sure there isn't a stray speaker wire touching another speaker wire which will cause your avr to shut down after a minute.
The avr functions at low levels just fine. I took the CLR3000 out of the mix for now and hooked up the SM65 again while I figure out what is going on with the CLR. That seems to be the main point of concern at this stage. The towers have been figured out, as stated above. I can't believe some of the things/steps that are needed for them to function properly, especially based on the condition I received them.

I've got the woofer out of the CLR and, to me, the xo looks ok and all the internal wiring seems ok. I am going to have to open up the other side to get at the rest of the circuitry today. I'll keep y'all in the loop.
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post #31547 of 31556 Old 09-12-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ThePrisoner View Post
I'am adding an SVS PC12-NSD to my HT which includes Def Tech BP-8060ST/CS-8060HD/SR-8040BP. Once I add the sub and tell my AVR that I do have a subwoofer what is the best way to dial in the bass control on the back of the 8060ST's? I plan on the 8060ST's to be set to small with 40Hz crossover.

I have the same system minus the DT sides, I'm using NHT super ones for the side and rear surrounds.


I would start with gain on the towers at the 12 o'clock position and work from there. I use a cross over of 60Hz.

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post #31548 of 31556 Old 09-12-2014, 11:09 AM
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welp, tweeter is dead on CLR, mids work fine when not in unit. woofer works in unit, but is only thing not running through xo. So...either xo is bad or entire thing malfunctioned due to dead tweeter (which is hard to believe, but at this point I'd believe most anything with these). Ordered new parts for everything from DT (as I didn't see anything I needed from baja on ebay). They threw in a bunch of random odds/ends I needed too. Great CS over there. everything should be up and running when parts get here and new xo is all soldered up. sigh. may just buy new/refurbed next time lol.

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post #31549 of 31556 Old 09-12-2014, 12:13 PM
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Drwinlied now the speaker owes you dinner and a movie. I joke because I know exactly what it looks like but as you found out, it works like a charm.
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post #31550 of 31556 Old Yesterday, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by UofAZ1 View Post
Screw OCD take it from experience get the SVS. It is 10X better sub with far tighter and lower frequency handling. There is no reason whatsoever that a sub needs to be from the same company as your speakers. None!!!!! I can't stress that enough. Your gonna be all smiles and enjoy the SVS far more than the DT subs.
I get what your saying, but even if I wanted to get a SVS subwoofer, none of them are in my price range, which is $300-$500. Preferably I'd get the supercube 2000, which is only $300. Is there anything specific thats better in this price range?
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Got BP-2X's for sides and rears, I played music from them, changing crossovers from full-range to 160hz. According to tests they drop off around 100-120hz, but I found they produce decent bass to about 80hz setting. Small room so ok to set them to 80hz? I don't like surrounds just reproducing too high up, ie at 100hz all speakers sound lacking in lower midrange/bass

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post #31552 of 31556 Old Yesterday, 06:08 AM
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Got BP-2X's for sides and rears, I played music from them, changing crossovers from full-range to 160hz. According to tests they drop off around 100-120hz, but I found they produce decent bass to about 80hz setting. Small room so ok to set them to 80hz? I don't like surrounds just reproducing too high up, ie at 100hz all speakers sound lacking in lower midrange/bass

Audessey sets my BP8080SRs to 40 and 60 back and side respectively. I run them at 60 all the time. I have BP1.2X in the other room and the driver size and cabinet size is the same. Even though Def Tech says one has 5.25s and the other has 4.5s.

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post #31553 of 31556 Old Yesterday, 06:12 AM
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I get what your saying, but even if I wanted to get a SVS subwoofer, none of them are in my price range, which is $300-$500. Preferably I'd get the supercube 2000, which is only $300. Is there anything specific thats better in this price range?

I owned the Def Tech SC1 and traded it for a SVS PB12NSD AKA PB2000, and it blew the doors off it. If budget is your limiting factor right now, HSU gets just as great of praise. Try this instead.http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html

Lowell


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post #31554 of 31556 Old Yesterday, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by agg133 View Post
I get what your saying, but even if I wanted to get a SVS subwoofer, none of them are in my price range, which is $300-$500. Preferably I'd get the supercube 2000, which is only $300. Is there anything specific thats better in this price range?
Trust me on this. Save your money for a better sub. If you buy now what you can just afford you will regret it. You will always ponder if you should've waited and gotten something better. Save up a tad bit longer and buy a SVS or Hsu and you will thank yourself over and over. Btw SVS always has subs in their outlet store (I bought my SVS NSD 12/2 in their outlet store and it arrived with the same warranty as new and looked brand new). I'm assuming somebody bought it didn't like how big it was or wife said No or it had a simple problem that they fixed and sold it as used in their outlet store. I've had mine now for over eight years and I pound it and it still works like day one. I saved 300.00 by buying from their outlet store.
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post #31555 of 31556 Old Yesterday, 04:19 PM
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Trust me on this. Save your money for a better sub. If you buy now what you can just afford you will regret it. You will always ponder if you should've waited and gotten something better. Save up a tad bit longer and buy a SVS or Hsu and you will thank yourself over and over. Btw SVS always has subs in their outlet store (I bought my SVS NSD 12/2 in their outlet store and it arrived with the same warranty as new and looked brand new). I'm assuming somebody bought it didn't like how big it was or wife said No or it had a simple problem that they fixed and sold it as used in their outlet store. I've had mine now for over eight years and I pound it and it still works like day one. I saved 300.00 by buying from their outlet store.
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Originally Posted by agg133 View Post
I get what your saying, but even if I wanted to get a SVS subwoofer, none of them are in my price range, which is $300-$500. Preferably I'd get the supercube 2000, which is only $300. Is there anything specific thats better in this price range?
Listen to UofAZ1, much cheaper to buy once. Save your money, watch the classifieds on here, check the outlet part of each manufacturers' web sites, look at eBay and CL. If you are handy, build your own. I built my Rythmik subs and couldn't be happier with them. Def Tech makes incredible speakers, the lower end subs, not so much.
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post #31556 of 31556 Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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Also, I just looked at your picture above, you may try swapping positions with that sub (it looks like a sub) that way you're not firing the rear drivers at the window and blinds, that could be causing a real weird reflection issue.
yep....that's part of the problem. The fact that there is a large window/blinds behind them. Problem is can't move RT channel far enough over past window. And even if I red the speakers end up being about 14' apart.

been using with rear drivers disconnected for awhile now. So far I like it. Doesn't quite have the punch it did with movies but imaging and clarity is MUCH better. Going to leave for awhile and then re-connect to see how big a difference i can hear
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