Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1082 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #32431 of 32457 Old 02-24-2015, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post
I think it would be a long search to find a speaker that sounds better than my bp7000s. They are quite a value. Again, I would not even trade them for Wilson's!

I will be de-listing them from the classifieds and audiogon.
I think one that might give the DT's a run for the money would be Golden Ear Tritons. I'm afraid to give them a listen
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post #32432 of 32457 Old 02-24-2015, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
A true pair should have them mounted on opposite sides.
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Originally Posted by bgrpph View Post
when i got my 8060s i emailed DT & asked same question about matching pairs or not- The 8060s are all the same- no left or right as
the older models were- so they're all mounted on same side.
My bad, I could have sworn the pair of 8080's I saw with the socks off had opposing woofers, but guess not.

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post #32433 of 32457 Old 02-24-2015, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post
There are countless posts on this subject in the thread over the years...

If you choose NOT to use an external sub with your towers, there are a couple of connection possibilities:

1. Run speaker wire only to your towers. In your AVR, set sub to "no" and speakers to "large" or "full". The full signal including LFE will be sent to your towers. The built in crossovers in your towers will send LFE plus appropriate low frequencies to the sub and bypass bass management on your avr. You will use the volume dial on the back of your tower to control the bass volume. All smaller speakers in your system that are crossed over will have the bass played through your left and right towers plus the LFE come from the towers. This is the simplest way to get a great result in most cases.

2. Run speaker wire to your towers plus rca (sub cable) to the LFE output on your towers. In your AVR, set sub to "yes" and speakers to "small". You can now use bass management on your AVR to control the LFE and crossover settings on your towers.

There is a lot of debate on what yields the best results. It's a hobby so experimentation is fun and the room may dictate what is ultimately the best solution.

I am currently between external subs having just sold my dual Seaton Submersive HP's so I currently am just running speaker wire to my BP7000's with Integra set to "NO" for sub and "Full Band". I get excellent results without the need to do an additional cable run. I personally see no reason to to run additional cable for bass management in this scenario.

Now, I do also have BP7000's for surround backs so I think it would be incredibly fun to run lfe to all four BP7000's so that I could have LFE coming from 4 separate locations. But my new subs should be here in the next few weeks so I don't want to go through the trouble. Just using speaker wire will only allow the LFE signal to come from the L/R speakers so if you have multiple full range speakers and you want LFE coming from more than the L/R speakers, then you would need to run RCA to all locations for LFE. This is personally the only scenario I would run extra cable for.---Most would probably just run the rest of the towers as large so they are playing full band, but LFE would still just come from L/R speakers with no additional RCA cable for LFE.

The final scenario that I highly advocate is:

3. Buy very capable external subs to use with your towers. Run speaker wire only to the towers and LFE cable to your external subs. On your AVR set sub to "Yes" and speakers to "small". Cross speakers between 60-80. Keep in mind a crossover is not a brick wall so lots of information below the crossover ultimately gets played via the tower. Benefits of your towers with built in subs but not using subs for LFE:
- very easy to integrate with external sub and much greater flexibility with crossover.
- lower crossover so you can avoid subwoofer localization
- many times, subwoofer location for the lowest frequencies is not ideally where your front left/right speaker locations are. Separate subs allow you to spread them around the room to reduce standing waves and have low frequencies sound better across many seating locations.
- although the built-in subs in the towers are adequate, they come no where near the high output, low frequency capability of very high quality stand-alone subs.

I have quad BP7000's with built in 1800 watt 14" sub drivers (essentially supercube reference in each tower). According to Definitive my four BP7000's have the output of 14 SuperCube One's but I still choose to use external subs. Call me a bass nut, but I'm not the only one who does this. It's hard to match the bass performance of a high quality sealed sub.

I hope this is helpful and makes sense. You have many options. Enjoy your speakers!
Good explanation

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Originally Posted by adam320 View Post
Thank you for taking the time to post all of that, but looks like most of that applies to when you don't have a standalone sub..

To get a little more specific I will definitely have a stand-alone sub, the VTF-15H MK2 to be more specific.. I'll also have the SR 8080s for the rears.
One of the first things to remember is that LFE is a completely separate channel, not "all" low frequencies, and as mentioned above on most receivers you can combine the two in some way, but this still needs to be kept in mind.
Easiest way to think of it may be this, do you want your Supertowers to be used as a truly Full Range speaker or not, wiring with just speaker wire or with full range low level into the rca's will give you a Full Range speaker, running speaker wire with LFE into the rca's will in essence give you a bookshelf speaker sitting on top of a subwoofer.

Another thing is that when it comes to bass management (which is basically what we're talking about) you're tuning for your room more than anything, this is why there are so many different opinions, it's what sounds best to You in Your Room.

Most of us say start with speaker wire only to let the towers be used as a full range speaker, once you've heard and gotten used to that, then start experimenting with different types of connections and receiver settings to see what you like best.

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post #32434 of 32457 Old 02-24-2015, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by badgerpilot View Post
I think one that might give the DT's a run for the money would be Golden Ear Tritons. I'm afraid to give them a listen
Considering the source, I'd be curious myself, just off the top of my head of think they just may be better than the 80xx line, but I think Sandy may be hard pressed to compete with his original flagship 2000's, 3000's and 7000's.
(I think the 7000's were still his, can't remember the exact timeline.)

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post #32435 of 32457 Old 02-25-2015, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
I agree with Lowell, as long as you don't mind the square shape of the 350's and 450's, I also prefer their sound over the newer models, I've got both and prefer the 350's over the 45's. my choice would be 450's for HT and 350's for music, but either would be excellent.
I have both the SM450s and SM350s. I've been running the 350s in the kitchen and 450s in my second system, which is in my bedroom. Based on what you've stated, I've decided to try the 350s in the BR system for a bit.

I've really grown to like the SM450s and much of the time I even prefer them over a pair of Focal 706Vs. Some would probably think that's nuts, but I find the 450s to have an engaging quality about them the Focals simply don't have.

Will report back.

Oh, I've swapped out the capacitors in both pair of Def Techs but I used the same brand.


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post #32436 of 32457 Old 02-25-2015, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Good explanation



One of the first things to remember is that LFE is a completely separate channel, not "all" low frequencies, and as mentioned above on most receivers you can combine the two in some way, but this still needs to be kept in mind.
Easiest way to think of it may be this, do you want your Supertowers to be used as a truly Full Range speaker or not, wiring with just speaker wire or with full range low level into the rca's will give you a Full Range speaker, running speaker wire with LFE into the rca's will in essence give you a bookshelf speaker sitting on top of a subwoofer.

Another thing is that when it comes to bass management (which is basically what we're talking about) you're tuning for your room more than anything, this is why there are so many different opinions, it's what sounds best to You in Your Room.

Most of us say start with speaker wire only to let the towers be used as a full range speaker, once you've heard and gotten used to that, then start experimenting with different types of connections and receiver settings to see what you like best.
So do the subs in the towers serve any purpose if they are not connected to LFE? Makes me wonder if I made the wrong choice in speakers if I was always planning to have an external sub.
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post #32437 of 32457 Old 02-25-2015, 07:16 AM
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So do the subs in the towers serve any purpose if they are not connected to LFE? Makes me wonder if I made the wrong choice in speakers if I was always planning to have an external sub.
Yes, the subs do play a role almost no matter what. If you don't connect the LFE out and run them full range, they will still be handling all the low end. If you don't run them full range and use a crossover to your sub, they will still be providing part of the midrange and low end. How much will depend on what you set your receiver's crossover to. Personally, I like setting low crossovers, like 40-60hz
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post #32438 of 32457 Old 02-25-2015, 07:27 AM
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So i've finally decided on what speakers i want for my new surround sound setup, definitive technology. I've chosen the studio 55's for my left and rights. My question for you guys is, which center would be best to match these? Only problem is, I have to use crutchfield.com because I live in Guam and no one will ship here except crutchfield. So i have the pro center 1000,2000 and the mythos 7 in my budget. Also, you think some promonitor 1000's would be good for surrounds? I'll be using a denon x4000 or x4250 for the receiver, haven't quite decided on that yet. Any help would be greatly appreciated guys!
I currently run 55s for the front left and right and a 65 for the center with the 45s for the rear. I honestly couldn't be happier with the set up. Everything blends really well. I'd honestly save a little longer and opt for a matching 55 or 65 for the center, since your center channel will be the most demanding for those whispers and loud sound effects, not sure that a pro monitor would match, at least it didn't for me when I demoed them at best buy. good luck!
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post #32439 of 32457 Old 02-25-2015, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Considering the source, I'd be curious myself, just off the top of my head of think they just may be better than the 80xx line, but I think Sandy may be hard pressed to compete with his original flagship 2000's, 3000's and 7000's.
(I think the 7000's were still his, can't remember the exact timeline.)
I think the key to the difference would be the ribbon tweeters. I know of at least one person who made the switch and is very happy. I need to listen to the Tritons some day, some day when my wallet is ready
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post #32440 of 32457 Old 02-25-2015, 08:00 AM
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So do the subs in the towers serve any purpose if they are not connected to LFE? Makes me wonder if I made the wrong choice in speakers if I was always planning to have an external sub.
For most people, the subs that are in the towers provide low enough bass for the majority of people including most wives For some, that would include most on this forum, we need/want more/deeper bass. I run my 7001's crossed at 40hz, letting my two subs do the heavy lifting. But again, every ones rooms, ears, wants differ. The sub in the towers just opens up many various options.
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post #32441 of 32457 Old 02-25-2015, 09:12 AM
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So do the subs in the towers serve any purpose if they are not connected to LFE? Makes me wonder if I made the wrong choice in speakers if I was always planning to have an external sub.
Since you were planning on a separate sub anyway it really just depends on how you look at it, for many of us, having a true full range speaker for fronts is what makes the difference, hearing "all" the lower frequencies from those channels directly is what we like, not to mention the benefits when listening to stereo music, even though the basic rule has become "let the subs do all the work" there are just those of us who really like the extra bass from the fronts.

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Once I take delivery of the 8060 towers, plan to just hook them up with speaker wires only and run them as full range from my Onkyo TX-NR3008.

The two reasons are that my dual sub outputs are already taken by a Klipsch RW-12D sub and Buttkicker and from what I've gathered, hooking up an RCA to the LFE input and using bass management from the AVR vs. just running speaker wire and running at full range makes no discernible audio difference and it's not worth getting extra cables and Y splitters.
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Once I take delivery of the 8060 towers, plan to just hook them up with speaker wires only and run them as full range from my Onkyo TX-NR3008.

The two reasons are that my dual sub outputs are already taken by a Klipsch RW-12D sub and Buttkicker and from what I've gathered, hooking up an RCA to the LFE input and using bass management from the AVR vs. just running speaker wire and running at full range makes no discernible audio difference and it's not worth getting extra cables and Y splitters.
The only thing you might lose is if there are sounds in the frequency range below that of the 8060 capabilities, they will not be re-routed to your sub.
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post #32444 of 32457 Old 02-25-2015, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrpph View Post
when i got my 8060s i emailed DT & asked same question about matching pairs or not- The 8060s are all the same- no left or right as
the older models were- so they're all mounted on same side.
Good to know. thanks.

I read somewhere that unlike the previous models, DT designed the 80 series to be interchangeable and to have a sound profile where having the subs mounted on the same sides didn't make a auditory difference.
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post #32445 of 32457 Old 02-26-2015, 08:18 AM
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Anybody experienced the new DT headphones? Or read a review (vs a preview)?
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Def Tech 450s vs Wharfedale Diamond 10.2

Hi,

Has anyone heard both the 450s and the 10.1 or 10.2s?

My impression, merely from reading, is that the DTs have more of a detailed, forward, borderline "bright" sound signature whereas the Wharfedales would be warmer and laid back but with really lush mids? I've heard the WDs but not the DTs.

(Not implying that one is better than the other, just different styles.)
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I read a review that suggested that you can get by without a sub with the Definitive SM55s? I'm guessing thats blasphemy to a purist, but if one is willing to make some compromises, and living in an apartment prevents you from enjoying window rattling bass anyways, is that really a possibility?
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I read a review that suggested that you can get by without a sub with the Definitive SM55s? I'm guessing thats blasphemy to a purist, but if one is willing to make some compromises, and living in an apartment prevents you from enjoying window rattling bass anyways, is that really a possibility?
I'm testing that theory next week. Have a refurbished pair on the way and will try them with a little Marantz NR1403. I was looking for something a little more "room-filling" than your average budget bookshelves.
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post #32449 of 32457 Old 02-26-2015, 08:33 PM
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I read a review that suggested that you can get by without a sub with the Definitive SM55s? I'm guessing thats blasphemy to a purist, but if one is willing to make some compromises, and living in an apartment prevents you from enjoying window rattling bass anyways, is that really a possibility?
My SM65s could get buy without a sub no problem. I bought them without ever hearing them. I listened to the sm55s At Best Buy and was so blown away by them I went home and bought some SM65s. From what I recall I'd have no issue with the sub output of the 55s if a subwoofer was not an option. The bass from these studiomonitors (55s and 65s) is unreal. They seriously sound like towers with 8 to 10 inch woofers. I'm a huge believer in passive radiators now. My wife said "do you really need a sub?" after she heard my bookshelfs play 300: rise of an empire, John wick and Fury.

Its not ground shaking bass, but it's definitely full range of sound to the point I didn't feel I was missing out on anything. I did want room shaking bass though hence the sub. If I was to ever make a 2.0 setup in my room I'd buy the 55/65s in a heart beat

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post #32450 of 32457 Old 02-26-2015, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
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I read a review that suggested that you can get by without a sub with the Definitive SM55s? I'm guessing thats blasphemy to a purist, but if one is willing to make some compromises, and living in an apartment prevents you from enjoying window rattling bass anyways, is that really a possibility?
If you're not used to subs then they will absolutely get you by, no problem.
But also think of it this way, if and when you can or do decide to get a Sub(s), you'll still have a great pair of bookshelves as a part of your system.

As a side note, I know some of us, esp. me, tend to sound like a broken record, sorry for that, but...you would probably get a little lower extension from a SM450, for less money, just a thought.

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post #32451 of 32457 Old 02-26-2015, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HofW View Post
I read a review that suggested that you can get by without a sub with the Definitive SM55s? I'm guessing thats blasphemy to a purist, but if one is willing to make some compromises, and living in an apartment prevents you from enjoying window rattling bass anyways, is that really a possibility?

For an apartment you will probably be fine. I tried the 55s when I bought my 65s and they are real close. However, there is not substitute for sub which you can always add later.


That being said, nothing makes up for a sub. I also have the old 2006TLs with the 250W power sub and adding a separate sub was still very apparent.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HofW View Post
I read a review that suggested that you can get by without a sub with the Definitive SM55s? I'm guessing thats blasphemy to a purist, but if one is willing to make some compromises, and living in an apartment prevents you from enjoying window rattling bass anyways, is that really a possibility?
Let me put it this way, I was doing testing on my sub and another sub and had turned off my sub. I then was watching Hulu thinking that I had turned the sub back on. I thought it sounded funny, but chalked it up to Hulu. I then tried playing the trailer for Godzilla (2014), a normal bass test for me and thought it too sounded funny. I checked all the connections on the back of my receiver and couldn't figure out what was going on. Finally I looked at the back of my sub and noticed that I had switched off the amp from my earlier tests.

TL;DR: Using just the SM65s, I only thought things sounded slightly funny without the sub on. So getting by without a sub would be doable (though not ideal).

Tim S.
Former 35mm and Digital Projectionist @ Regal Cinemas

Currently watching on: BenQ W1070, 82" 1.0 Gain Screen, Darbee Darblet HD 43%, PS3, with Yamaha RX-V473, SVS PB-2000, a Def Tech CS-8040HD, 2 SM65 for L/R, and 2 SM 55s for surrounds.
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Depends greatly on the sound that you want. The +/- 3db for the SM65's is 43hz. Biggest thing to keep in mind is that adding a sub =/= uncontrollably loud bass. there is a lot of information below 43hz that you will not hear without a sub. I typically run subs low, down 3 or 4 db below my mains. I like hearing everything on the track but in a controlled manner. A sub will improve sound quality, not just add boom.
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I had a recent power surge in my house (original was the utility pole) which blew out many components and appliances. I am slowing working through all the issues. I lost about 13 or so surge protectors also. This happened about a month ago.

I just notices that the subwoofers in my BP7006s (fronts) have stopped working, no power light, etc. The bipolar speaks seem fine.

Could the fuse have simply blown on both or is it probably the amp. I have a message into Definitive support to get their opinion (waiting to hear back). I also have an Infinity subwoofer that is in the same state. If it is the amp on the 7006s, is the part still available and what is the cost? Can they be self repaired?

Thoughts?
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post #32455 of 32457 Old Yesterday, 12:08 PM
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No idea about fixing amps, but check with bajawaverunner on eBay. He has lots of definitive parts direct from them. Even if he doesn't have exactly what you need, send him a message because he might be able to get it for you. I bought some speakers from him and even though he didn't have them listed, he was able to get them from def tech and create a listing for me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post
Depends greatly on the sound that you want. The +/- 3db for the SM65's is 43hz. Biggest thing to keep in mind is that adding a sub =/= uncontrollably loud bass. there is a lot of information below 43hz that you will not hear without a sub. I typically run subs low, down 3 or 4 db below my mains. I like hearing everything on the track but in a controlled manner. A sub will improve sound quality, not just add boom.
It sounds much lower to my (noob) ears then 43Hz, however I do prefer the sub with my 65s as the sound is fuller. Like I said before though the bass from the 65s is very good and really would do a fine job with no sub if you don't want or can't have one. I'm sure the 55s will be fairly close to this too.
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Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post
No idea about fixing amps, but check with bajawaverunner on eBay. He has lots of definitive parts direct from them. Even if he doesn't have exactly what you need, send him a message because he might be able to get it for you. I bought some speakers from him and even though he didn't have them listed, he was able to get them from def tech and create a listing for me.
Thanks for the advice. It ended up being the fuses in both units. bajawaverunner is a great resource. I purchased some DT desktops from him. He does carry replacement amps for BP7006s also.
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