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post #32581 of 32607 Old 03-19-2015, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by WarmongerX View Post
Got all the new speakers setup and configured. Ran MCACC and then ran REW and tuned against that. Then sat in my MLP and fine tuned even more. The sub now disappears and the wife even mentioned it last night.

That said, according to REW, my new StudioMonitor 65's are the only speakers that show a consistent line across the sound spectrum, they have a nice blend from the Sub. However, my Procenter 2000 and ProMonitor 1000's have a nice drop off at around 70 - 100hz and no amount of tuning seems to be able to fix that.

Overall I'm happy and it sounds good. I'm sure I'll fine tune even more in the coming weeks.

I'm still thinking of ordering two SVS SB 2000's to play with and see if I like better than the one PB 2000. That thing is just so huge I could use it as an end table if it were next to my couch.
where is your crossover then ?, all speakers on small? why don't you set it at 100 Hz so you don't have to bother with Procter and 1000's, PB would take care of it.

Change is the only constant.

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post #32582 of 32607 Old 03-19-2015, 11:44 AM
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The one thing I definitely noticed about the SM65s and SM55s when I measured them away from boundaries was their razor-straight response curves. As soon as you introduce a wall (and who doesn't have those?), the reinforcement seems to mess it up. I use EQ to fix it, but still not fun when you have to put things where they can fit instead of where you'd get the best measured response.

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Former 35mm and Digital Projectionist @ Regal Cinemas

Currently watching on: BenQ W1070, 82" 1.0 Gain Screen, Darbee Darblet HD 43%, PS3, with Yamaha Aventage RX-A1030, SVS PB-2000, a Def Tech CS-8040HD, 2 SM65 for L/R, and 2 SM55 for surrounds.
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post #32583 of 32607 Old 03-19-2015, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sinisanav View Post
where is your crossover then ?, all speakers on small? why don't you set it at 100 Hz so you don't have to bother with Procter and 1000's, PB would take care of it.
They are set to small and it's set at 80hz and I tried the 100hz to no avail. As I understand it, the 80hz crosssover is not a brick wall, but allows the speakers to blend across that threshold. The Sub starts to slope off at around 70hz and the speakers are supposed to pick up that slack. I'm guessing that the ProMonitor/Center line of speakers just aren't capable of handling that frequency range like the Studio line is. They are rated to 47hz, but that's manufacturer spec and we all know about how that works. Studio Monitors are rated to 30hz. I remember hearing that double the manufacturer spec and that's what you'll likely get.

I might try 120hz at some point, just to see what happens, but after spending 2 full days at it, I need a short break to just enjoy the fruits of my labors
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Samsung 65" UN65ES8000FXZA
Pioneer Elite VSX23-TXH
Def Tech StudioMonitor 65 L/R
Def Tech ProCenter 2000
Def Tech ProMonitor 1000 x 4
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post #32584 of 32607 Old 03-19-2015, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinisanav View Post
Hmmm, good excuse to upgrade the speakers, but , I think that if your wife rearranges the sofa back to center that will help the most, if you have Audyssey in your AVR, that would be good as well.
Ya, I'd use Audyssey before I'd try and find a unique speaker solution. It should give you decent results.

I use Audyssey with the maximum measurement locations for the version on my receiver. While Audyssey can improve some problems from placement and room reflections it cannot increase the off-axis response of a speaker or eliminate comb filtering.

Let me rephrase the question, how would a SM 55 on its side as a center channel compare to my CLS 2002 with voice clarity when the main seating position is off to the side? The two factors I know of that would impact this ate dispersion (I don't know the difference between these models on that measurement) and comb filtering (much more prevalent in my current speaker as an MTM design).
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post #32585 of 32607 Old 03-19-2015, 05:55 PM
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So my local big blue box store has a Magnolia inside with two BP8060s with A60 modules attached in their demo room with SR8040 surrounds. They were playing Transformers via a Marantz receiver.

So how did this 5.1.2 system sound? In a word awful. The ground speakers sounded fine but the A60s sounded tinny, distant, harsh, and just cheap. I asked the guy if they had run Audyssey and they had.

I read reviews about the horrific Bose level build quality of the A60 and how they're not even voice matched to the BP8060. After doing some critical listening, the reviews were right, the A60 is not anywhere close to justifying its price.

I'll mount four small satellite speakers to the ceiling once I upgrade to a sound object receiver.

Onkyo TX-NR3008; Samsung UN55D7000; Panasonic PT-AE8000U; Panoview 92" matte white 1.0 gain screen; Definitive Technology BP-8060ST; Definitive Technology CS-8060HD; Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 350; Definitive Technology SR-8040BP; Klipsch Reference RW-12D; Buttkicker Wireless; Belkin PF60; Pioneer Elite BDP62FD; Toshiba HD-A3; PS3 60 GB; PS3 120 GB slim; Xbox 360 S with HD DVD drive; Wii; Wii U 32 GB; Xbox One; PS4; Logitech Harmony One; Beats Studio 2.0 Wireless (matte black)
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post #32586 of 32607 Old 03-19-2015, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GalvatronType_R View Post
So my local big blue box store has a Magnolia inside with two BP8060s with A60 modules attached in their demo room with SR8040 surrounds. They were playing Transformers via a Marantz receiver.

So how did this 5.1.2 system sound? In a word awful. The ground speakers sounded fine but the A60s sounded tinny, distant, harsh, and just cheap. I asked the guy if they had run Audyssey and they had.

I read reviews about the horrific Bose level build quality of the A60 and how they're not even voice matched to the BP8060. After doing some critical listening, the reviews were right, the A60 is not anywhere close to justifying its price.

I'll mount four small satellite speakers to the ceiling once I upgrade to a sound object receiver.
Yea, it's a shame how the A60 modules turned out, I blame a lot of it on Dolby and the absolutely horrific parameters they put on the mfg. specs. in order to put the Atmos moniker on a module.
I'm sure you'd be far better of with one of the Gem's or Mythos speakers just mounted on the ceiling.

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post #32587 of 32607 Old 03-19-2015, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bjaurelio View Post
Questtn for the group. My current setup is 5/1 with SM350s in front and back with CLR 2002 center. Sub is a Hsu STF 2. I love my 350s, and they pubesidncredible sound. The only issue is that after a rearranging of our living room by my wife (who is amazing, loves having good speakers, and loves having my sci-fi themed acoustic panels on the walls) our main seating position is a bit off axis. You can see that in the picture below. With the fairly significant off-axis position of the couch basically in line with the left speaker, the MTM center design does is showing its flaws.

I'm considering using this as an opportunity to upgrade the front with either SM 45s or 55s since they can be layed on their side. Would either of these be a big upgrade for my front over my current setup? Will going to a single woofer center help my recent issues with all the seating basically being on the sides of the listening area?

Thanks
First, far be it from me to squash any notions of doing an upgrade, but IMO take the SM45'S out of the mix, first I don't think they're an upgrade for the 350's (I personally like the 350's better) plus they are rear ported which would not be good mounted on the wall as a center, you'd be better of laying another 350 on its side and having the radiator firing upward (they are basically the same width anyway)
If you want an upgrade I'd look at SM55, 65 or 450's.

Just as an experiment have you tried changing your settings to go with a phantom Center to see what it sounds like. (First make sure you adjust your L&R so they are level matched for your seating position)

Honestly, if it were me (upgraded speakers or not) I'd pull the center (2002) down, place your DVR (or whatever that is) directly under your TV where the Center now is, then place a matching speaker (matching to which ever L&R you use) under that at the same height as your L&R's standing upright, not on its side, this will place both the main driver and tweeter dead center. Honestly, looking at your room, your in one of the unique situations where an upward/vertical center would look pretty normal and not awkward, then if need be just angle it slightly toward you.

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
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Last edited by ALtlOff; 03-19-2015 at 08:56 PM.
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post #32588 of 32607 Old 03-20-2015, 07:31 AM
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I asked the guy if they had run Audyssey and they had.
LIES!!!! or, at least probably lies. No one in best buy/magnolia ht/Magnolia Design Center ever runs any kind of room correction software. For the most part, the sales people don't even set-up and install the product, it's done by the corporate Project Team. it is rare to even find an employee who even knows how to run audyssey, let alone turn it on/off depending on the speakers being used. Also, running Audyssey would be pointless in a demo room anyway unless they are dedicating that one receiver to only be used with one set of speakers and nothing else.

Not saying the A60's are any good, just don't trust anything a BB employee tells you

Reference: I was a best buy/mht/mdc employee/manager for about 5 years, never trust anything I tell you
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post #32589 of 32607 Old 03-20-2015, 08:26 PM
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Speaker Newbie

I have been looking to setup a HT system. I walked into my local BB and really liked the way Def Tech speakers sounded. I am no where near a audiophile and was looking for some advice. I'm looking to do mostly movies and sports events. The guy in the magnolia section showed me some floor standing speakers but unfortunately I do not have the space for them. I was hoping to do all Def Tech. My budget is about 349 a speaker. Do the smaller book shelf speakers and center speakers accommodate a 14x20 8 foot drop ceiling room staying within a $349/ speaker budget or should I look else where? I was also looking at their in ceiling speakers for the rears. Any opinions on an all Def Tech system paired with a Denon X4000? Any advise is appreciated. Thanks
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post #32590 of 32607 Old 03-20-2015, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
First, far be it from me to squash any notions of doing an upgrade, but IMO take the SM45'S out of the mix, first I don't think they're an upgrade for the 350's (I personally like the 350's better) plus they are rear ported which would not be good mounted on the wall as a center, you'd be better of laying another 350 on its side and having the radiator firing upward (they are basically the same width anyway)
If you want an upgrade I'd look at SM55, 65 or 450's.

Just as an experiment have you tried changing your settings to go with a phantom Center to see what it sounds like. (First make sure you adjust your L&R so they are level matched for your seating position)

Honestly, if it were me (upgraded speakers or not) I'd pull the center (2002) down, place your DVR (or whatever that is) directly under your TV where the Center now is, then place a matching speaker (matching to which ever L&R you use) under that at the same height as your L&R's standing upright, not on its side, this will place both the main driver and tweeter dead center. Honestly, looking at your room, your in one of the unique situations where an upward/vertical center would look pretty normal and not awkward, then if need be just angle it slightly toward you.

I second all this. I have owned the 350s and they were fantastic speakers. Very clear and detailed as you know. I now own the 65s and don't know if they are that significant of upgrade. You could try another 350 for a CC which was very comparable to a CLR2300 at the time. I had both at the same time and tried it and the 350 was more detailed. I just couldn't get over the look of it laying on it's side, it was to fat. :-)

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post #32591 of 32607 Old 03-20-2015, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cuellar_usmc View Post
I have been looking to setup a HT system. I walked into my local BB and really liked the way Def Tech speakers sounded. I am no where near a audiophile and was looking for some advice. I'm looking to do mostly movies and sports events. The guy in the magnolia section showed me some floor standing speakers but unfortunately I do not have the space for them. I was hoping to do all Def Tech. My budget is about 349 a speaker. Do the smaller book shelf speakers and center speakers accommodate a 14x20 8 foot drop ceiling room staying within a $349/ speaker budget or should I look else where? I was also looking at their in ceiling speakers for the rears. Any opinions on an all Def Tech system paired with a Denon X4000? Any advise is appreciated. Thanks
My room size and receiver is the same as yours, take a look at my setup in the link. I love my Def Techs. I now have PM800s up though instead of the SR8080s. I like the more detail from the monopoles. I would look for some old 350 or 450s in that range. Also, you haven't mentioned a sub. You need a sub.

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post #32592 of 32607 Old 03-21-2015, 12:09 AM
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Sorry, I'm also in the market for a sub.... I have a Def tech supercube from a previous system. Someone said that it will not be enough for my room size . I don't know the exact model and I will find out tomorrow And I will post it. (Going through a divorce and still have to grab my stuff, but I purchased it 3 years ago for 699.99). If I can reuse it I will but if it's not worth keeping she can have it and I'll buy a new one. Actually since I bought the supercede I have liked Def tech. I was running an older pioneer with klipsch speakers with no sub 3 years ago. I specifically bought the supercube because it sounded good but the room was 10x 10. That was 3 years ago. My new room is a bit bigger.
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post #32593 of 32607 Old 03-21-2015, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cuellar_usmc View Post
I have been looking to setup a HT system. I walked into my local BB and really liked the way Def Tech speakers sounded. I am no where near a audiophile and was looking for some advice. I'm looking to do mostly movies and sports events. The guy in the magnolia section showed me some floor standing speakers but unfortunately I do not have the space for them. I was hoping to do all Def Tech. My budget is about 349 a speaker. Do the smaller book shelf speakers and center speakers accommodate a 14x20 8 foot drop ceiling room staying within a $349/ speaker budget or should I look else where? I was also looking at their in ceiling speakers for the rears. Any opinions on an all Def Tech system paired with a Denon X4000? Any advise is appreciated. Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
My room size and receiver is the same as yours, take a look at my setup in the link. I love my Def Techs. I now have PM800s up though instead of the SR8080s. I like the more detail from the monopoles. I would look for some old 350 or 450s in that range. Also, you haven't mentioned a sub. You need a sub.
Ditto, there's actually a pair of SM450'S on e-bay right now for $300 and a couple of pairs of SM350's for $200, I'd shoot for either 350's, 450's or PM1000'S. (Studio Monitors would be my first choice)
I'm thinking SM450'S for L/R and run a phantom Center (for the time being) SM350's for surrounds and a SVS PB-1000, all in right at around $1000, and it would sound excellent.

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Originally Posted by cuellar_usmc View Post
Sorry, I'm also in the market for a sub.... I have a Def tech supercube from a previous system. Someone said that it will not be enough for my room size . I don't know the exact model and I will find out tomorrow And I will post it. (Going through a divorce and still have to grab my stuff, but I purchased it 3 years ago for 699.99). If I can reuse it I will but if it's not worth keeping she can have it and I'll buy a new one. Actually since I bought the supercede I have liked Def tech. I was running an older pioneer with klipsch speakers with no sub 3 years ago. I specifically bought the supercube because it sounded good but the room was 10x 10. That was 3 years ago. My new room is a bit bigger.
That is probably a Supercube III, and your right, it's probably not big enough, there's nothing wrong with them, they're just appropriate for a smaller space (they're still selling on e-bay for $250-$300) DefTech actually makes a good sub, the only reason we usually recommend others is bang-4-buck, not because they're no good. Use it temporarily until you can get something else, it's better than nothing, then you can either sell it or use it for a bookshelf 2.1 system. (It would compliment a pair of Studio Monitors nicely, esp. since those models except speaker level input and have adjustable crossovers built in to them.)

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
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http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...formation.html

Last edited by ALtlOff; 03-21-2015 at 02:48 AM.
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post #32594 of 32607 Old 03-21-2015, 10:34 AM
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Thanks for the advise guys
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post #32595 of 32607 Old 03-21-2015, 10:56 AM
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Thanks for the advise guys
$349x5 leaves ALOT of wiggle room. Check out bajawaverunner on eBay - it's DefTech's "unofficial" refurb seller.

2 SM65s for L/R ($260/each) + CS8060 Center ($400) + PM1000 ($130/each) = $1180... Keep the supercube and move it near field, and buy a bigger/beefier sub and put it up front (or where it sounds the best).

Or... 2 SM55, PC2000, PM800s leaves you more $ for even better subs...

Lots of options with your budget.

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post #32596 of 32607 Old 03-21-2015, 11:17 AM
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Or shop locally for your speakers if you don't want refurbs. MSRP is just that...suggested retail price. Everything is negotiable...I was able to obtain the StudioMonitor 65's for $360 each (MSRP $449), the PC2000 for $280 (MSRP $349) and the PM1000's for $155 (MSRP $219) just a few weeks ago. If I wanted to travel a 100 mile round trip, I could've saved even more. Best buy will even match prices of local competitors if your dead set on getting your stuff there.

As to your original question if the smaller ones would fill the room, yes, I at least think so. I originally had the ProMonitor 1000's up front with a Procenter 1000, Prosub 800 and 4 Promonitor 800's in the rear they did very well in our 17dx22w living room that opens into a kitchen area. I think the Promonitor 1000's sound great for what they are, but they would be considered what most call, bright in nature. The bigger Studio Monitor line will sound more full or warm. The same would be said going to the ProCenter 2000 vs 1000 because of the driver and cabinet sizes.

I love my new setup and the speakers are really still being broken in after only 10 days of use. I'd say that if you have the room and funds, go with the StudioMonitor line, but the ProMonitor line is no slouch. It's what attracted me to Def tech to begin with after hearing them in a local video dealer.

As others have said, the Supercubes are not bad for what they are and the one you have might transition nicely into a new setup, however if it can't be acquired, SVS makes great subs with a 45 day in home tryout with free shipping both ways. I'm currently testing out a PB 2000 and 2 SB 2000's.

For ceiling speakers, I don't have any, but a friend of mine ordered 4 of the 6.5 UIW 64/A and seems to like them alot.

Samsung 65" UN65ES8000FXZA
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post #32597 of 32607 Old 03-21-2015, 06:03 PM
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Hi, I was wondering if I could get some help choosing between the sm45 and sm55 for my front speakers.

I currently have a 8040hd center, rythmik lv12r sub, and sm45 rear speakers.

Would I benefit from using the sm55 in the front over the sm45 in my setup?
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post #32598 of 32607 Old 03-21-2015, 07:06 PM
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Hi, I was wondering if I could get some help choosing between the sm45 and sm55 for my front speakers.

I currently have a 8040hd center, rythmik lv12r sub, and sm45 rear speakers.

Would I benefit from using the sm55 in the front over the sm45 in my setup?

A little bit, but not much. You have a decent sub, it all depends on where you are setting your crossovers at. Def Tech recommends the CO for the 55s at 60 and the 45s at 80. I have the 65s and because my subs are so good I have the COs at 100. The higher I put them, the flatter my curve is running REW.

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post #32599 of 32607 Old 03-21-2015, 07:11 PM
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A little bit, but not much. You have a decent sub, it all depends on where you are setting your crossovers at. Def Tech recommends the CO for the 55s at 60 and the 45s at 80. I have the 65s and because my subs are so good I have the COs at 100. The higher I put them, the flatter my curve is running REW.
Agreed, unless you sometimes listen to stereo without sub, then going with 55 or 65 would be better because of the more extension into deeper bass.

Change is the only constant.

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post #32600 of 32607 Old 03-21-2015, 07:25 PM
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A little bit, but not much. You have a decent sub, it all depends on where you are setting your crossovers at. Def Tech recommends the CO for the 55s at 60 and the 45s at 80. I have the 65s and because my subs are so good I have the COs at 100. The higher I put them, the flatter my curve is running REW.
I plan to have the co at around 80 hz, so I guess I'll just get the sm45s and let my sub take care of the lower end. Thanks for the help.
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post #32601 of 32607 Old 03-21-2015, 11:25 PM
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$349x5 leaves ALOT of wiggle room. Check out bajawaverunner on eBay - it's DefTech's "unofficial" refurb seller.
I have to second the recommendation for Baja's eBay store. I purchased my SM65's and SM55's from him. They arrived in mint condition and still had the factory cling-wrap over the piano black finish. I couldn't find a single thing that indicated that they were refurbs.
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Living Room: Sharp Aquos Quattron 3D 70", AVR-X4000, HTPC, iNUKE 3000DSP, DSP1124P, PS4, PS3, 360, Wii-U, DefTech SM65's, Mythos Eight, SM55 surrounds, Twin Marty's under construction.
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post #32602 of 32607 Old Yesterday, 05:26 AM
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I have to second the recommendation for Baja's eBay store. I purchased my SM65's and SM55's from him. They arrived in mint condition and still had the factory cling-wrap over the piano black finish. I couldn't find a single thing that indicated that they were refurbs.
I can third this. Bought my ST-L's from Baja and he was great!
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post #32603 of 32607 Old Yesterday, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Kriszilla View Post
I have to second the recommendation for Baja's eBay store. I purchased my SM65's and SM55's from him. They arrived in mint condition and still had the factory cling-wrap over the piano black finish. I couldn't find a single thing that indicated that they were refurbs.
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I can third this. Bought my ST-L's from Baja and he was great!
Yup - it's good stuff!

I had to swap out my PC1000 that I ordered from Baja and noticed that his email address domain is DefTech's and Polk's parent company - hence my reference to "unofficial" refurb seller.

Plus, I've heard that DT's customer service is awesome so I have no worries about buying my next upgrades from Baja.

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post #32604 of 32607 Old Yesterday, 07:22 AM
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for sale Definative techonogolys C1 centerchannel speaker for sale, sounds just like new $150. OBO
2X5.25 woofers and 1" aluimin tweeter sameas the SM speaker line. comes w/ grill, selling because I want smaller satilites
excellent condition contact Mrleston13@gmail.com
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Samsung PN58C500/Amp: Yamaha RX-V465/Polk DSW1KProSub/DefTECH SM450/C1CC/Pro80/Sony BPX37 BD/Magnavox515/ HTPC-CPU: I3 550, 3.2 GHz/Mobo: Intel H57/RAM: 6GB DDR3 1333/HDD: 1TB/2TBX2 Internal, 1TB external/Tuner: 1800-950 Haupague/W7 64 OS Remote: Harmony 700
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post #32605 of 32607 Old Today, 09:31 AM
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A couple of years ago I swapped out a sectional for these recliners and adjusted the speakers accordingly. But last night I was looking at my speaker setup and wondered if they are set accordingly. I believe I have my 2002TLs toed-in almost perfectly for the center-seated position. I could toe-in a little more so that the inside of the speaker cabinets would graze my ears if I drew a line from them to my ear. However, as the seated position shows, I am off-center, so that adjustment would then cause the speaker facing me to my right to fire in front of me instead of at me. Also, from that seated position, the left speaker fires 3' from my left ear. Understandably, when you are viewing off-center no placement will be perfect. IIRC, when you have no center-seated position, you position your speakers as if you did and live with the consequences. Do you concur?

L/R are 8' apart and 9.5' from the viewing position.

Chair position


Center position


Seated position
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post #32606 of 32607 Old Today, 09:58 AM
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Hm, in your set-up there are two things I think I'd do:

1) move your L/R father apart. The more separation you have, proportionally, the closer your listening positions will be to center and then you can get a little more toe-in
2) toe in so that the left speaker will go just to the left of the left person's left ear and same for the right side.

Basically, keeping both listening positions within the direction of the sound of the speakers and getting at least some toe-angle to help with imaging.
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post #32607 of 32607 Old Today, 08:58 PM
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Also, are your woofers firing out or in?
Have you tried swapping them around?
The reflection of the bass from the woofers will change the speakers imaging characteristics, I'm not saying one specific way is better than the other, but they will work differently from room to room, so tweaking this may change things, by possibly widening or narrowing the imaging which may help both seats to sound closer to the same.

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
My Build Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...formation.html

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