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post #33001 of 33027 Unread Yesterday, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Or...
Use the $400 toward your Center upgrade, you can usefully find a good used C/L/R 3000 for between $400-$500 (which is what you'd want to match the 30's) and the combination of the 30's / 3000 and a good sub would be more than excellent.

Lowell, what do you think...
That for a front sound stage and then either a pair of SM450's or BP10's for Surrounds.....
(Either of those would run you an additional $300-400 use to complete a really good 5.1)

BTW, MSRP on the BP30's was $1400.00 ea. And the above mentioned CLR3000 was $1100.00.
Great idea. I am already kinda regretting not even giving the klipsch the chance, but the fact that I can get a full 5.1 (eventual center upgrade) for sub 500 is the financially smart idea. While the idea of getting the rf7s is cool, my wife would kill me knowing there are other things we could spend money on.

So just for confidence, before I go buy, we are in agreement that the bp30 setup with the b2x surrounds will far exceed my sony core bookshelves and match many modern speakers? Thanks for all the help! Just got word my sub got delivered, cant wait to get this all done.
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post #33002 of 33027 Unread Yesterday, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post
AltlOff, have you compared a CS8080 to the 3000. I have a chance to get a great deal on a 3000, but I don't know how it will sound compared to my SM65s. I know the 5.25 cover the mids a little better.
I haven't compared it to the 8080, my only comparison has been to my old 2300 & 2500, and I think it blows both of them out of the water, I also haven't compared it in Center duty to the 65's, I love the clarity of the 65's where I have them for music, but I much prefer the depth of the 3000 for my Center Channel vocals and effects. (That's room to room, not side by side.)
I might just bring a 65 down this weekend and try it...)

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post #33003 of 33027 Unread Yesterday, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Great idea. I am already kinda regretting not even giving the klipsch the chance, but the fact that I can get a full 5.1 (eventual center upgrade) for sub 500 is the financially smart idea. While the idea of getting the rf7s is cool, my wife would kill me knowing there are other things we could spend money on.

So just for confidence, before I go buy, we are in agreement that the bp30 setup with the b2x surrounds will far exceed my sony core bookshelves and match many modern speakers? Thanks for all the help! Just got word my sub got delivered, cant wait to get this all done.
I owned the 350s and they were great for mains. The 450s would match perfect.

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post #33004 of 33027 Unread Yesterday, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
I haven't compared it to the 8080, my only comparison has been to my old 2300 & 2500, and I think it blows both of them out of the water, I also haven't compared it in Center duty to the 65's, I love the clarity of the 65's where I have them for music, but I much prefer the depth of the 3000 for my Center Channel vocals and effects. (That's room to room, not side by side.)
I can pick up a mint one for $300. I think I will grab it. If I don't like it as well I can always sell and should be able to break even, even with shipping and Ebay/Paypal fees.

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post #33005 of 33027 Unread Yesterday, 09:26 AM
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Quote:Originally Posted by pilot20 

Can anyone compare the CLR3000 vs the CS-8080HD.

I have a system comprised of 7001s up front and my CLR3000 amp is going bad.

Talked to DT and they don't have the high level amp modules available for my CLR3000.

They said they might be able to repair it if I send it in, which means I'm without a center for at
least several weeks and the cost would be $100 with no guarantee that they could get it working.

So, I'm either looking for another CLR3000 or perhaps the CS-8080HD.

Obviously I want the front stage to be as seamless as possible so if anyone could comment
on how the CS-8080HD would blend with the 7001's it would be greatly appreciated.

I am now using the CLR3000 without the sub. I just unplugged the power cord.

Thanks in advance.

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I use the 8080hd with my bp7000's. Check out my equipment list. I admittedly run the center about 4-5 db hot but it keeps up at this level. I think it blends absolutely fine. I even called Chet at definitive before using this combo and he had no reservations in combo with 7000's and it was his opinion that the 8080 was superior to the 3000 as well. I am a snob and like getting new stuff and was having reservations about a used clr3000 vs a new 8080hd. I am over this now as I bought some used stuff off of audiogon with complete satisfaction. With that being said I believe gbartman is selling his clr3000. I would consider picking this up first if it is still available as it would be a perfect match and cheaper than a new 8080. Check out gbartman's post a page or 2 back announcing that he is selling his center. You may want to pm him if you are interested
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by pilot20 

Thanks for the response.

I have already contacted gbartman about his CLR3000. He has someone interested in his 3000 and will let me know if it becomes available.

I'm probably leaning toward a new 8080HD.


Back when I still had my BP-30's, I compared a CLR-2000, which I owned at the time, to a CS8080. For me, I though the CS8080 was a decent step up in terms of sound quality, compared to my CLR-2000. The only downside to the CS8080 compared to the CLR-2000 or CLR-3000 was that in my room, the CS8080 seemed to struggle more at higher volumes, but, I rarely listened at over -10db, and could not strain the CS8080 until close to reference at say...-1 or 0.

Eventually I finally figured that the center channel is the most important speaker in the entire setup. My BP-30's were absolutely spectacular, but all of the Def Tech centers were to me, sub par in terms of sound quality. So I eventually got the nerve to try an Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 for my center, and was so surprised by the huge increase in sound quality! I think that it blended just fine with my BP-30's and could barely tell the difference when panning from left to right and right to left. I think ppl get way too anal when it comes to timbre matching. Anyway, go with the CS8080 and don't look back!
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Even though I already own the 8080?
The above quotes from a few years ago might interest you. If you already own the 8080, then maybe not. I have not heard the 8080 but these quotes seem to indicate the 8080 struggles a little at higher volumes, the 3000 definately does not
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post #33006 of 33027 Unread Yesterday, 09:28 AM
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I can pick up a mint one for $300. I think I will grab it. If I don't like it as well I can always sell and should be able to break even, even with shipping and Ebay/Paypal fees.
For $300, you can't lose.
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Great idea. I am already kinda regretting not even giving the klipsch the chance, but the fact that I can get a full 5.1 (eventual center upgrade) for sub 500 is the financially smart idea. While the idea of getting the rf7s is cool, my wife would kill me knowing there are other things we could spend money on.

So just for confidence, before I go buy, we are in agreement that the bp30 setup with the b2x surrounds will far exceed my sony core bookshelves and match many modern speakers? Thanks for all the help! Just got word my sub got delivered, cant wait to get this all done.
IMO, ABSOLUTELY, but to be fair, as anyone on this thread can attest, I'm a "little" (lol) fanatical about vintage DefTech, and honestly I believe they're one of the biggest bang-4-buck values available in the used market right now, but also keep in mind, this is the DefTech thread, those of us hear, love their sound.

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I can pick up a mint one for $300. I think I will grab it. If I don't like it as well I can always sell and should be able to break even, even with shipping and Ebay/Paypal fees.
If you don't like it, let me know first please.

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post #33009 of 33027 Unread Yesterday, 09:33 AM
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IMO, ABSOLUTELY, but to be fair, as anyone on this thread can attest, I'm a "little" (lol) fanatical about vintage DefTech, and honestly I believe they're one of the biggest bang-4-buck values available in the used market right now, but also keep in mind, this is the DefTech thread, those of us hear, love their sound.
That's what i'm afraid of

I will listen and make my own judgement, but I really have nothing to compare it too. I suppose if it sounds good though, then so be it.
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post #33010 of 33027 Unread Yesterday, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
IMO, ABSOLUTELY, but to be fair, as anyone on this thread can attest, I'm a "little" (lol) fanatical about vintage DefTech, and honestly I believe they're one of the biggest bang-4-buck values available in the used market right now, but also keep in mind, this is the DefTech thread, those of us hear, love their sound.
The BP30's plus your new sub will absolutely blow away your current set up even without a center and rears. The 30's will do a great phantom center. The 2x's will be great rear speakers until you get the itch to upgrade. Yes, vintage Def Tech's are by far the best bang for the buck!
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The BP30's plus your new sub will absolutely blow away your current set up even without a center and rears. The 30's will do a great phantom center. The 2x's will be great rear speakers until you get the itch to upgrade. Yes, vintage Def Tech's are by far the best bang for the buck!
That's what I want to hear. I want to go home tonight, plug it all in, put in a movie, and be content and not wonder, "wonder wht would sound better in this budget".
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Originally Posted by badgerpilot View Post
The BP30's plus your new sub will absolutely blow away your current set up even without a center and rears. The 30's will do a great phantom center. The 2x's will be great rear speakers until you get the itch to upgrade. Yes, vintage Def Tech's are by far the best bang for the buck!
If you disregard my initial purchase in the late 90's, my "entire" speaker array has cost me only 27% of new, with "all" of the quality.

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That's what I want to hear. I want to go home tonight, plug it all in, put in a movie, and be content and not wonder, "wonder wht would sound better in this budget".
I have the 7001's, CLR3000 and BPVX's in the rear along with 2 DIY Rythmiks. Every time I get the urge to upgrade, I just put on a movie, a concert or maybe a SACD or DVD audio and there goes that urge All of my Def Tech's are used or refurbs, I couldn't be happier. Just make sure you give the 30's some room to breath, at least 12" from your wall. Enjoy!
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
That's what I want to hear. I want to go home tonight, plug it all in, put in a movie, and be content and not wonder, "wonder wht would sound better in this budget".
I have the 7001's, CLR3000 and BPVX's in the rear along with 2 DIY Rythmiks. Every time I get the urge to upgrade, I just put on a movie, a concert or maybe a SACD or DVD audio and there goes that urge All of my Def Tech's are used or refurbs, I couldn't be happier. Just make sure you give the 30's some room to breath, at least 12" from your wall. Enjoy!
Well good and bad news. I drove 45 minutes just to find out they are bp20s not 30s. I should have just left, but they sounded really good so I bought for 400. Now I have some remorse since they went 30s, but they do sound good...
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Well good and bad news. I drove 45 minutes just to find out they are bp20s not 30s. I should have just left, but they sounded really good so I bought for 400. Now I have some remorse since they went 30s, but they do sound good...
Don't get too upset, the driver array between the 30's and 20's is exactly the same, the difference between the two is the enclosures, the larger 30's cabinet allows them to play lower, but since your using the sub it won't be noticeable at all, you'd really only be able to tell the difference with music in a 2.0 setup, and $400, is still a good price for a pair that originally sold for $1600.00. Play around with their placement and don't forget, leave them some room to breathe, put them through their paces, they will actually handle up to 500 watts of power.

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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Well good and bad news. I drove 45 minutes just to find out they are bp20s not 30s. I should have just left, but they sounded really good so I bought for 400. Now I have some remorse since they went 30s, but they do sound good...
Don't get too upset, the driver array between the 30's and 20's is exactly the same, the difference between the two is the enclosures, the larger 30's cabinet allows them to play lower, but since your using the sub it won't be noticeable at all, you'd really only be able to tell the difference with music in a 2.0 setup, and $400, is still a good price for a pair that originally sold for $1600.00. Play around with their placement and don't forget, leave them some room to breathe, put them through their paces, they will actually handle up to 500 watts of power.
That makes me feel a bit better. Star Wars sounded great so unless I go listen to other speakers, I won't know what I'm missing. These are greatly improved over my Sony cores, which I did like.

I also don't know how the 30s can be much bigger...I'm going to have to relocate sub I think.
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Well good and bad news. I drove 45 minutes just to find out they are bp20s not 30s. I should have just left, but they sounded really good so I bought for 400. Now I have some remorse since they went 30s, but they do sound good...
Don't get too upset, the driver array between the 30's and 20's is exactly the same, the difference between the two is the enclosures, the larger 30's cabinet allows them to play lower, but since your using the sub it won't be noticeable at all, you'd really only be able to tell the difference with music in a 2.0 setup, and $400, is still a good price for a pair that originally sold for $1600.00. Play around with their placement and don't forget, leave them some room to breathe, put them through their paces, they will actually handle up to 500 watts of power.
That makes me feel a bit better. Star Wars sounded great so unless I go listen to other speakers, I won't know what I'm missing. These are greatly improved over my Sony cores, which I did like.

I also don't know how the 30s can be much bigger...I'm going to have to relocate sub I think.
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So for the first time ever I heard distortion from my CS-8040HD. I was watching The Last Five Years with my girlfriend and when the male vocalist was singing very loudly the sound would audibly distort (my gf heard it too). I then tried switching out the 8040 for my ProCenter 1000 and again heard the distortion. All the reviews online for the BD state that the sound is "clean" and "pure" so I don't really think it's the BD. Also, we watched Mad Max Fury Road on Tuesday and heard no distortion whatsoever (we actually had Mad Max turned up louder by 5dBs).

Any advice?

Tim S.
Former 35mm and Digital Projectionist @ Regal Cinemas

Currently watching on: BenQ W1070, 82" 1.0 Gain Screen, Darbee Darblet HD 43%, PS3, PS4, with Yamaha Aventage RX-A1030, SVS PB-2000, a Def Tech CS-8040HD, 2 SM65 for L/R, and 2 SM55 for surrounds.
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So for the first time ever I heard distortion from my CS-8040HD. I was watching The Last Five Years with my girlfriend and when the male vocalist was singing very loudly the sound would audibly distort (my gf heard it too). I then tried switching out the 8040 for my ProCenter 1000 and again heard the distortion. All the reviews online for the BD state that the sound is "clean" and "pure" so I don't really think it's the BD. Also, we watched Mad Max Fury Road on Tuesday and heard no distortion whatsoever (we actually had Mad Max turned up louder by 5dBs).

Any advice?
So let me theorize and maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

The highest power-grab from the 8040HD center is around 273Hz according to S&V (or that is where the impedance drops the lowest, which is where it should be wanting the most power) and 273Hz is right in the middle of where men might be singing (based upon what little I know about where Hz correspond to singing - I can't seem to find the chart I want to find to base this off of), so perhaps the amp in my 1030 is just not quite up to producing that particular frequency at high volumes and the solution to stop that distortion would be to buy a separate amp.

It doesn't quite explain why I've never noticed this distortion before with other things (played louder, no less), though it may just be it hit the right pitch for just long enough that it actually became audible.

Anyone that can offer corrections?

Tim S.
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Currently watching on: BenQ W1070, 82" 1.0 Gain Screen, Darbee Darblet HD 43%, PS3, PS4, with Yamaha Aventage RX-A1030, SVS PB-2000, a Def Tech CS-8040HD, 2 SM65 for L/R, and 2 SM55 for surrounds.
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That makes me feel a bit better. Star Wars sounded great so unless I go listen to other speakers, I won't know what I'm missing. These are greatly improved over my Sony cores, which I did like.

I also don't know how the 30s can be much bigger...I'm going to have to relocate sub I think.

Move the sub about a third of the way down the long wall. Also, if you can pull the BPs about 12" off the wall you will hear a much fuller sound.

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Move the sub about a third of the way down the long wall. Also, if you can pull the BPs about 12" off the wall you will hear a much fuller sound.
Going to need a splitter I think to move the sub to the far right, long wall. I was also thinking about putting in the back of the room since the space would be perfect. Not sure how it will sound though.

Attached is a pic of the placement. I have room to move it out, currently i have about a shoe and a half length from the diagonal corner.
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So let me theorize and maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

The highest power-grab from the 8040HD center is around 273Hz according to S&V (or that is where the impedance drops the lowest, which is where it should be wanting the most power) and 273Hz is right in the middle of where men might be singing (based upon what little I know about where Hz correspond to singing - I can't seem to find the chart I want to find to base this off of), so perhaps the amp in my 1030 is just not quite up to producing that particular frequency at high volumes and the solution to stop that distortion would be to buy a separate amp.

It doesn't quite explain why I've never noticed this distortion before with other things (played louder, no less), though it may just be it hit the right pitch for just long enough that it actually became audible.

Anyone that can offer corrections?
IMO, "in theory" it's possible, but honestly if you've Never heard it before and can't get it to reproduce with any other content, I would really look back at the source, does it do it if you turn down the volume? That would be able to tell you if it's a power issue, then even though the disc got good reviews about sound quality, things do happen, it could literally be that specific disc, if it really bothered you I'd buy another disc and try it, just return it if you notice it again, and next I'd try buying another of that artists discs to see if it's possibly some weird thing with his voice or exact tone for that note, weirder things have happened.
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Going to need a splitter I think to move the sub to the far right, long wall. I was also thinking about putting in the back of the room since the space would be perfect. Not sure how it will sound though.

Attached is a pic of the placement. I have room to move it out, currently i have about a shoe and a half length from the diagonal corner.
In essence you're sort of corner loading it, but since your using your Sub that isn't ness. a bad thing.
Here's a couple of other things to try.
Change the angle of the speaker toward your MLP, this will effect it's imaging, having the front drivers firing straight at you isn't automatically the way to go with Bi-Polar Fronts.
Also to get a really good center imaging try adjusting your placement with your Center disconnected, but not off, your trying to get the speakers to project their best phantom center, not the AVR.
Play with your crossover settings, even Large, All rooms will react different to this, esp. If you move your Sub to the rear.

Don't be afraid to experiment, you're tuning your speakers to your room and your taste, esp. with Bi-Poles.

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
In essence you're sort of corner loading it, but since your using your Sub that isn't ness. a bad thing.
Here's a couple of other things to try.
Change the angle of the speaker toward your MLP, this will effect it's imaging, having the front drivers firing straight at you isn't automatically the way to go with Bi-Polar Fronts.
Also to get a really good center imaging try adjusting your placement with your Center disconnected, but not off, your trying to get the speakers to project their best phantom center, not the AVR.
Play with your crossover settings, even Large, All rooms will react different to this, esp. If you move your Sub to the rear.

Don't be afraid to experiment, you're tuning your speakers to your room and your taste, esp. with Bi-Poles.
Just to make sure I am hearing you correctly, you are thinking disconnect the center while I place the side, then once ideal, reconnect. You area also thinking the sides would work best pulled a foot or so away from the projector wall but have them facing straight, NOT inward toward me? Thanks.
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Just to make sure I am hearing you correctly, you are thinking disconnect the center while I place the side, then once ideal, reconnect. You area also thinking the sides would work best pulled a foot or so away from the projector wall but have them facing straight, NOT inward toward me? Thanks.
Yup, everybody has their own tricks and things to try, I've never had room correction that I've liked so I've always fine tuned and tweaked with placement and angles, this is one of the ways I found out that Bi-Pole fronts can be a completely different animal when it comes to setup.
Remember, there is no steadfast "rule" only good places to start.
But about the center thing, when I listen to music I like to just use my fronts in stereo (and my 2000's will Fill a room) so I've just always set them up to image in that way, then adjusted for HT. It's just me, but won't hurt to try.
If you look at a pic of my front wall, it looks like my 2000's are angled right at the MLP, but in reality their aimed about 1' behind me, that's where they imaged best in relation to their position to my front and side walls and the subsequent reflections of the rear firing drivers.

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Yup, everybody has their own tricks and things to try, I've never had room correction that I've liked so I've always fine tuned and tweaked with placement and angles, this is one of the ways I found out that Bi-Pole fronts can be a completely different animal when it comes to setup.
Remember, there is no steadfast "rule" only good places to start.
But about the center thing, when I listen to music I like to just use my fronts in stereo (and my 2000's will Fill a room) so I've just already set then up to image in that way, then adjusted for HT. It's just me, but won't hurt to try.
Perfect, I will see how this works. I was already satisfied, but can always improve. A bit surprising that they might be better straight vs pointed toward listening position.
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Perfect, I will see how this works. I was already satisfied, but can always improve. A bit surprising that they might be better straight vs pointed toward listening position.
Might be, mighty not be, you'll just never know unless you try.
I added to my last post while you were typing, it all has to do with the reflections of the rear firing drivers and that has to do with their placement and distance from walls.

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