Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1130 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #33871 of 33898 Old 01-30-2016, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laika View Post
That's the goofy thing about the hobby. I was totally happy with my old system
If anybody ever questions your motivation when doing things like this, just remember this answer.

"What's NEED Got To Do With It?
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post #33872 of 33898 Old 01-30-2016, 10:54 PM
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After getting to know my BP7000SC again, I've witnessed that the bass is much more consistent at all the listening locations then running the mains crossed over to the single HGS18 subwoofer. I'm sure if I had two HGS18 subs things would be different, but I think I might just try using the subwoofer for LFE and near feild for maximum performance.

Just finding smooth bass across a wide area more enjoyable then the slight performance gains with the HGS18 and having to be sitting in the sweet spot (family room not a deadicated home theater).

Anyone else feel there towers have pretty smooth response across the room vs a single sub?
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post #33873 of 33898 Old 01-30-2016, 11:23 PM
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I just received my speakers and I am pumped to get them tuned in. Here is what I have:
Theater size is 13x19x8
AVR Denon x4200 with Audyssey MultEQ XT32
Definitive Speakers (fronts BP8080ST, center CS8080HD, 4 surrounds SR8080BP)
Sub psa S3000i

As I was read the Definitive manual, it says "Very Important - do not use your receivers auto setup functions as they are often ineffective in setting up and adjusting speakers with built-in powered subwoofers!"

I am a newbie and one of the reasons that I bought the Denon x4200 was to utilize the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 calibration that came with it. I was trying read some threads here on what I need to do to make Audyssey work with my Definitive speakers (but I couldn't understand clearly if they need to be set to LARGE or then someone else said SMALL & 80hz as a starting point, then I saw that I was suppose to set the built-in speaker subs control to minimum…)

Is there anyone that could give me the steps that I should use in order for Audyssey setup to give me good results?

Thanks in advanced!!!
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post #33874 of 33898 Old 01-31-2016, 07:26 AM
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I run mine large currently for smoother bass in the room. There is a Audyssey bypass for the front left and right you can try. Just have to try different option till you like what you hear.
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post #33875 of 33898 Old 02-01-2016, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post
After getting to know my BP7000SC again, I've witnessed that the bass is much more consistent at all the listening locations then running the mains crossed over to the single HGS18 subwoofer. I'm sure if I had two HGS18 subs things would be different, but I think I might just try using the subwoofer for LFE and near feild for maximum performance.

Just finding smooth bass across a wide area more enjoyable then the slight performance gains with the HGS18 and having to be sitting in the sweet spot (family room not a deadicated home theater).

Anyone else feel there towers have pretty smooth response across the room vs a single sub?

I have the BP-8080ST and ran my Sub1 LFE pre-out to the left ST and the Sub2 LFE pre-out to the right ST. I'm not a bass nut, so this is working fine for me vs. a separate sub. My other speakers are set at a crossover of 40Hz. I do think there is something to your theory that the bass is smoother, better blended, and less localized, with the towers.
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post #33876 of 33898 Old 02-01-2016, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtalamo View Post
I just received my speakers and I am pumped to get them tuned in. Here is what I have:
Theater size is 13x19x8
AVR Denon x4200 with Audyssey MultEQ XT32
Definitive Speakers (fronts BP8080ST, center CS8080HD, 4 surrounds SR8080BP)
Sub psa S3000i

As I was read the Definitive manual, it says "Very Important - do not use your receivers auto setup functions as they are often ineffective in setting up and adjusting speakers with built-in powered subwoofers!"

I am a newbie and one of the reasons that I bought the Denon x4200 was to utilize the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 calibration that came with it. I was trying read some threads here on what I need to do to make Audyssey work with my Definitive speakers (but I couldn't understand clearly if they need to be set to LARGE or then someone else said SMALL & 80hz as a starting point, then I saw that I was suppose to set the built-in speaker subs control to minimum…)

Is there anyone that could give me the steps that I should use in order for Audyssey setup to give me good results?

Thanks in advanced!!!

Although some have reported difficulty with using Audyssey with bipolars, my Marantz AV8801's Audyssey MultEQ XT32 ran fine in an 11.2 setup, even with the fronts taking the LFE pre-outs. It did default everything to small with 40Hz crossovers (except for front height effects BPX at 50Hz). I manually switched the front 3 and the BP-8060ST side surrounds to large, but left the crossovers alone. Sounds great! I demo'd the Bourne movies yesterday and loved it!


So, go ahead and run the Audyssey calibration. Calibrate with the max mic placements that your AVR gives you. You can then manually switch any full-range towers to large and play with your levels (can confirm by ear or with a Radio Shack SPL meter, some people bump the center a bit to help with dialog clarity), distances, and crossover points. But honestly, Audyssey MultEQ XT32 does a great job on its own most of the time.
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post #33877 of 33898 Old 02-01-2016, 01:17 PM
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Im using an older Pio elite that only has a single setting for the crossover.

Its currently set at 80Hz. Thats what the recent MCACC set it to.

I can and should manually change that to lower considering my setup. (in signature)

TIA

BP7004/CLR2002/SuperCubeII/B&W-CCM684/Pio-VSX-92TXH
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post #33878 of 33898 Old 02-02-2016, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtmorgan23 View Post
Im using an older Pio elite that only has a single setting for the crossover.

Its currently set at 80Hz. Thats what the recent MCACC set it to.

I can and should manually change that to lower considering my setup. (in signature)

TIA
It won't hurt anything to experiment, crossovers/bass management, is as much room dependant as it is speaker dependant, not too mention personal preference.
After doing a bunch of listening with different settings, just choose the one you like best.
We promise we won't label you a dissident and trouble maker for choosing a setting against the norm....

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post #33879 of 33898 Old 02-02-2016, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtmorgan23 View Post
Im using an older Pio elite that only has a single setting for the crossover.

Its currently set at 80Hz. Thats what the recent MCACC set it to.

I can and should manually change that to lower considering my setup. (in signature)

TIA
My take on your situation is that given only one crossover setting, you'll have to set it based on your "worst" performing speaker. 80Hz may well be correct, but your sub is doing some heavy lifting and is playing a big role (limitation?). However, letting bass frequencies slip through the crossover that a speaker can't handle will sound bad (or at least not sound as good) and may even damage your speaker. You may be able to "cheat" with a lower crossover if you accept the premise that in real life listening the amount of lower bass going to your surrounds is not that much. May be worth some experimenting, but don't push your luck. It might be time to think about an upgrade path as time and budget allows, maybe a newer AVR, or going with bigger towers up front and moving your existing towers to surrounds?
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post #33880 of 33898 Old 02-02-2016, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtmorgan23 View Post
Im using an older Pio elite that only has a single setting for the crossover.

Its currently set at 80Hz. Thats what the recent MCACC set it to.

I can and should manually change that to lower considering my setup. (in signature)

TIA
I also have a Pioneer Elite receiver and I would not recommend setting the crossover any lower than 80hz. Pioneer uses a global crossover which sums the bass from all the mains, adds the LFE channel and then applies the crossover. This means that any bass and LFE above the crossover is cut off and discarded - it's not redirected anywhere.

For example, if you set the crossover to 50hz, all bass and LFE from 50hz up to 120hz will be cut off leaving a huge gap in upper bass frequencies.
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post #33881 of 33898 Old 02-02-2016, 07:43 AM
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Talking

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Originally Posted by Kurolicious View Post
I also have a Pioneer Elite receiver and I would not recommend setting the crossover any lower than 80hz. Pioneer uses a global crossover which sums the bass from all the mains, adds the LFE channel and then applies the crossover. This means that any bass and LFE above the crossover is cut off and discarded - it's not redirected anywhere.

For example, if you set the crossover to 50hz, all bass and LFE from 50hz up to 120hz will be cut off leaving a huge gap in upper bass frequencies.
What a waste of good bass! Thanks for posting this key piece of info, Kurolicious!
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post #33882 of 33898 Old 02-02-2016, 07:49 AM
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By-the-by, anyone near Davis, CA???? ... Audiogon currently has a pair of BP2000 towers and a CLR2300 for an opening bid of $751! A tremendous bargain, if you can pick them up in CA!
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post #33883 of 33898 Old 02-02-2016, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imakeller View Post
My take on your situation is that given only one crossover setting, you'll have to set it based on your "worst" performing speaker. 80Hz may well be correct, but your sub is doing some heavy lifting and is playing a big role (limitation?). However, letting bass frequencies slip through the crossover that a speaker can't handle will sound bad (or at least not sound as good) and may even damage your speaker. You may be able to "cheat" with a lower crossover if you accept the premise that in real life listening the amount of lower bass going to your surrounds is not that much. May be worth some experimenting, but don't push your luck. It might be time to think about an upgrade path as time and budget allows, maybe a newer AVR, or going with bigger towers up front and moving your existing towers to surrounds?
Planning on upgrading to the SC95 or SC97. I wish i could put my 7004s as rears but I have to use inwalls due to my living room configuration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurolicious View Post
I also have a Pioneer Elite receiver and I would not recommend setting the crossover any lower than 80hz. Pioneer uses a global crossover which sums the bass from all the mains, adds the LFE channel and then applies the crossover. This means that any bass and LFE above the crossover is cut off and discarded - it's not redirected anywhere.

For example, if you set the crossover to 50hz, all bass and LFE from 50hz up to 120hz will be cut off leaving a huge gap in upper bass frequencies.
Thank you for this info. Ill leave it alone at 80Hz. It doesnt sound bad honestly with my fronts having subs built in and my supercube the current bass sounds excellent IMO. Do you know if the SC95 and SC97 will have this same issue with the global crossover?

BP7004/CLR2002/SuperCubeII/B&W-CCM684/Pio-VSX-92TXH
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post #33884 of 33898 Old 02-02-2016, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtalamo View Post
I just received my speakers and I am pumped to get them tuned in. Here is what I have:
Theater size is 13x19x8
AVR Denon x4200 with Audyssey MultEQ XT32
Definitive Speakers (fronts BP8080ST, center CS8080HD, 4 surrounds SR8080BP)
Sub psa S3000i

As I was read the Definitive manual, it says "Very Important - do not use your receivers auto setup functions as they are often ineffective in setting up and adjusting speakers with built-in powered subwoofers!"

I am a newbie and one of the reasons that I bought the Denon x4200 was to utilize the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 calibration that came with it. I was trying read some threads here on what I need to do to make Audyssey work with my Definitive speakers (but I couldn't understand clearly if they need to be set to LARGE or then someone else said SMALL & 80hz as a starting point, then I saw that I was suppose to set the built-in speaker subs control to minimum…)

Is there anyone that could give me the steps that I should use in order for Audyssey setup to give me good results?

Thanks in advanced!!!
You have several setup options with these speakers, in the end, the option that sounds best to you is the one you should use.
Here is how I would start.
In the speaker options, make sure both sub outputs are set to on.
Run speaker wire AND a sub cable to both speakers.
With Audyssey turned off, use the AVR's test tones set one of your front speakers(doesn't really matter which one) output to 75db at the MLP using an SLP meter. After this DO NOT touch the AVR's volume knob.
Now turn on sub 1 and set its volume knob so you get 71~72db at the MLP.
Now turn on sub 2 and set its volume knob so you get 71~72db at the MLP.
Now turn on both subs, you should get 75db at the MLP, if you don't, do the above steps adjusting the subs up or down until you get 75db for both subs combined. It's important that each subs output is equal.
Now run Audyssey.
When finished, set the speakers to small with a crossover of 80hz.
If you want more bass, this is common, turn it up in the AVR's controls...not on the subs.

The above is simply a starting point, you will probably want to experiment with several different ways to set them up...So again, this is just a starting point.

Hope it helps...

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post #33885 of 33898 Old 02-03-2016, 06:28 PM
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Thanks truwarrior22 & imakeller!

Thanks ceh383 - Thanks for your detailed instructions, I will try these steps this weekend!
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post #33886 of 33898 Old 02-03-2016, 06:29 PM
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Thanks truwarrior22 & imakeller!

Thanks ceh383 - Thanks for your detailed instructions, I will try these steps this weekend!
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post #33887 of 33898 Old 02-03-2016, 06:33 PM
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What about his center speaker 8080hd?
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post #33888 of 33898 Old 02-03-2016, 07:55 PM
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What about his center speaker 8080hd?
Run it speaker wire only, adjust the the speakers sub volume (it's really not a sub, just a woofer) until it sounds good to you (before Audyssey) set the crossover at 80hz for it. Again, just a starting point...You must experiment to find what sounds best to you.

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post #33889 of 33898 Old 02-03-2016, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkyork View Post
What about his center speaker 8080hd?
Run it speaker wire only, adjust the the speakers sub volume (it's really not a sub, just a woofer) until it sounds good to you (before Audyssey) set the crossover at 80hz for it. Again, just a starting point...You must experiment to find what sounds best to you.
Good advice to start. I'm not even sure I plug my CLR3000 in any more. I just cross it over. The mids on the CLR3000 can go fairly low. Might sound like a waste, but the mids and highs are great and that's all I need it to do since I have capable mains and sub which will provide smoother bass in the room.

Not sure how low the mids on these new models go.
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post #33890 of 33898 Old 02-03-2016, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by truwarrior22 View Post
Good advice to start. I'm not even sure I plug my CLR3000 in any more. I just cross it over. The mids on the CLR3000 can go fairly low. Might sound like a waste, but the mids and highs are great and that's all I need it to do since I have capable mains and sub which will provide smoother bass in the room.

Not sure how low the mids on these new models go.
I would plug it in...Since dialogue is mainly from the center speaker, think about some of the deeper male voices. You may need solid 80hz response to reproduce them properly.

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post #33891 of 33898 Old 02-04-2016, 07:14 AM
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Deal alert -- There's a pair of BP7002's just listed on eBay for only $599 or "make offer". Seems like a great deal to me, so I thought I'd mention it. The only catch is they're local pickup only in San Antonio, TX
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post #33892 of 33898 Old 02-04-2016, 09:58 AM
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Hello All -- I have an 11.2 setup which is a mix of vintage (BPX, BPVX) and current (BP8080ST, CS8080HD, BP8060ST, SM65) Def Tech speakers. I'm really pretty darn happy with what I have, but I'm getting the urge to tinker.


IMHO, the BPVX is a phenomenal surround. DT's best ever without going to towers in back. I'm a fan of the MTM bipolar array in the BPVX and BPX. I wish DT would make a BPX equivalent with the newer 5.25" BDSS 2nd gen drivers. Even better would be a modern BPVX equivalent, but unfortunately DT has backed away from 6.5" drivers.


So, I'm thinking ... what if I updated my pair of BPX with the newer drivers and tweeters? Anyone know part numbers or prices for the newer drivers? I'm also considering building a pair of BPX with the newer drivers as a DIY project by buying the BJAE crossovers for the BPX, building cabinets, etc. Hmmmm. Am I crazy??
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post #33893 of 33898 Old Yesterday, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by imakeller View Post
Hello All -- I have an 11.2 setup which is a mix of vintage (BPX, BPVX) and current (BP8080ST, CS8080HD, BP8060ST, SM65) Def Tech speakers. I'm really pretty darn happy with what I have, but I'm getting the urge to tinker.


IMHO, the BPVX is a phenomenal surround. DT's best ever without going to towers in back. I'm a fan of the MTM bipolar array in the BPVX and BPX. I wish DT would make a BPX equivalent with the newer 5.25" BDSS 2nd gen drivers. Even better would be a modern BPVX equivalent, but unfortunately DT has backed away from 6.5" drivers.


So, I'm thinking ... what if I updated my pair of BPX with the newer drivers and tweeters? Anyone know part numbers or prices for the newer drivers? I'm also considering building a pair of BPX with the newer drivers as a DIY project by buying the BJAE crossovers for the BPX, building cabinets, etc. Hmmmm. Am I crazy??

Update ... I just bought the following items from Bajawaverunner:
2 qty- p/n BJAE BPX crossovers:$15.00 each
2 qty- p/n BJAV BPX cabinets: $28.00 each
8 qty- p/n 4AZZ BP-8080ST 5.25" drivers: $40.00 each
4 qty- p/n 4ACF BP-8080ST 1" tweeters: $45.00 each
4 qty- p/n BJAJ BPX endcaps: $30.00 each



The total price really added up! Cost-cutting may be why we don't see the BPX MTM bipolar array carried forward in today's SR-8080BP, or any 6.5" drivers for that matter. I think it will be fun to attempt creation of an updated BPX (the BPX3?). Wish me luck! If this works out, I can retrofit my in-use set of BPX too. The only item I wasn't able to get were BPX socks. Any suggestions for white material that I can use to have socks made with?
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post #33894 of 33898 Old Yesterday, 02:17 PM
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Nice little project, pics when you think it's appropriate.

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Any suggestions for white material that I can use to have socks made with?
Just get some white grill cloth:

http://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Wh...er+grill+cloth

Really, anything light weight will work, just remember the easier it is to blow through, the better.

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
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post #33895 of 33898 Old Today, 07:25 AM
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F.Y.I.

Baja is having a MONSTER of a sale that I just noticed:

http://stores.ebay.com/baja-waverunn..._pgn=1&_ipg=48

Some examples:
CS8080-HD - $280
SR8080BP - $120
SM55 - $120
SM45 - $70
PM1000 - $90

Make sure you click in the item itself to see the reduced price.

Just thought I'd share.

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post #33896 of 33898 Old Today, 07:50 AM
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Nice little project, pics when you think it's appropriate.



Just get some white grill cloth:

http://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Wh...er+grill+cloth

Really, anything light weight will work, just remember the easier it is to blow through, the better.
Thanks, ALtlOff. I bought some grill cloth as you suggested and will definitely share pics of the project!
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post #33897 of 33898 Old Today, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by imakeller View Post
Hello All -- I have an 11.2 setup which is a mix of vintage (BPX, BPVX) and current (BP8080ST, CS8080HD, BP8060ST, SM65) Def Tech speakers. I'm really pretty darn happy with what I have, but I'm getting the urge to tinker.


IMHO, the BPVX is a phenomenal surround. DT's best ever without going to towers in back. I'm a fan of the MTM bipolar array in the BPVX and BPX. I wish DT would make a BPX equivalent with the newer 5.25" BDSS 2nd gen drivers. Even better would be a modern BPVX equivalent, but unfortunately DT has backed away from 6.5" drivers.


So, I'm thinking ... what if I updated my pair of BPX with the newer drivers and tweeters? Anyone know part numbers or prices for the newer drivers? I'm also considering building a pair of BPX with the newer drivers as a DIY project by buying the BJAE crossovers for the BPX, building cabinets, etc. Hmmmm. Am I crazy??
I use two sets of BPX in my setup and really like them. Always wanted to get my hands on a pair of BPVX but haven't been successful yet. They would match up better with the bp30s and CLR2000 that I use. Though they are old I haven't felt the need to upgrade. Really like the 6.5 drivers.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
F.Y.I.

Baja is having a MONSTER of a sale that I just noticed:

http://stores.ebay.com/baja-waverunn..._pgn=1&_ipg=48

Some examples:
CS8080-HD - $280
SR8080BP - $120
SM55 - $120
SM45 - $70
PM1000 - $90

Make sure you click in the item itself to see the reduced price.

Just thought I'd share.

My living room budget build: Samsung PN51E530 / Denon AVR1613 / DefTech PC1000 / DefTech PM60 / DefTech ProSub 60 / Dayton Sub1200
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