Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1186 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #35551 of 35574 Old Yesterday, 07:25 PM
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Should I go with the Svs ported or sealed box?
Personally I would go ported. I was leary at first to go with a ported sub because I've only had sealed subs in the past but I never had a quality ported sub like SVS. It's fast, it's great for movies and music. I won't go back to a sealed sub again I don't think.

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post #35552 of 35574 Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM
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Should I go with the Svs ported or sealed box?

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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
Personally I would go ported. I was leary at first to go with a ported sub because I've only had sealed subs in the past but I never had a quality ported sub like SVS. It's fast, it's great for movies and music. I won't go back to a sealed sub again I don't think.

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Ditto, if you're comparing Subs with the same size drivers and have the physical space for ported, always opt for it.
Since they will normally play louder and lower than their sealed counterpart, they will give you more flexibility, not to mention versatility if you ever need to move them to a larger space.

Most of the negatives surrounding ported subs are really just not valid anymore with today's subs.

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post #35553 of 35574 Old Today, 12:26 AM
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Very long time Definitive owner here. A few months ago I replaced my ancient B&K Reference 20 processor with a Marantz SR7010 receiver with Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 capability. I'm looking to do four ceiling Atmos speakers in the not too distant future. I've read through 27 of the 78 pages in the "Best in ceiling speakers for Atmos?" thread and so far there has been no talk from Definitive owners so I thought I'd ask for thoughts over here on the Definitive DT and DI series in-ceiling speakers. Also, I'd be curious to know if anyone here has tried an Atmos setup with bipolar side and back surrounds. (No, I haven't had time to read back very far in this thread yet to see if these topics have already been discussed.)

Here is my current setup.
BP2000 mains.
CLR2000 center.
BPX side surrounds.
Marantz SR7010. Using as a pre-amp for the ear level speakers. The receiver amps will power the Atmos speakers, though.
B&K 2-channel amp for the mains.
B&K 6-channel amp for the center and surrounds.

The B&K Reference 20 was a 5.1 processor. After many months of watching eBay, I recently picked up a second mint pair of BPX speakers to go to 7 channels, but I haven't hooked them up yet. It wasn't until the day after I purchased those that I really started to think through and research future upgrades and it occurred to me that maybe bipolars aren't the best option for the new object oriented 3-D audio formats. Perhaps I should have sold my BPX speakers and picked up four Mythos surrounds instead. Now that I have them, I figure I might as well see how Atmos sounds with bipolar surrounds before I think about selling them.

I currently have a suspended ceiling, but I'm looking to replace that with drywall sometime in the next few months. That's when I'll do the Atmos speakers. I'm hoping to take the ceiling up to 8', but there are some complicating issues that may force me to stay at the height of the current ceiling, which is about 7' 9". Reading through the Dolby Atmos white paper and the ceiling speaker thread, it's clear that I need speakers with at least 90° dispersion. The DT and DI series in-ceiling speakers all say they have wide dispersion characteristics, but Definitive doesn't give any numbers on their website. Has anyone used them for Atmos? I'd also be interested to hear what anyone using them as standard surrounds thinks of them. I'd probably go with 6.5" or 8" coaxials. I want to cross them over at 80 HZ, so certainly nothing smaller. For timbre matching, sticking with Definitive for the Atmos speakers seems like the obvious way to go if their dispersion characteristics are suitable.

If you have Def Tech in-ceilings, I'd also be interested to know if you are using them with or without a backer box. Definitive's owner's manuals say they make backer boxes, but they don't have any info about them on their website. Maybe they perform great without a box, but it sure seems like getting decent mid-bass response would be tough without an enclosure. (Admittedly, I have no experience with in-wall or in-ceiling speakers.) Since I'm taking the old suspended ceiling down, I could construct custom boxes if I can get a recommendation on volume and damping material out of Definitive.

Lots of people in the ceiling speaker thread are raving about how great the Atlantic Technology IC-6OBA-S speaker is for Atmos. Particularly with an 8' or lower ceiling such as mine. They are saying the unique dual dipolar tweeter arrangement really reduces hotspotting issues. AT is marketing this as specifically designed for Atmos use.



That's got me wondering how the DT6.5STR with it's dual tweeter design would work for Atmos. (Obviously there is a big difference between bipolar tweeters and dipolar tweeters.) The DT6.5STR must have extra wide high frequency dispersion along the axis of the tweeters. It seems to be switchable between stereo mode where left and right are fed to a single speaker in a distributed audio system or bipolar surround mode according to the webpage. The manual doesn't have any detail on this.



Also, I'd like to chime in on the standalone sub issue. I've never felt the need for a standalone sub with my BP2000s. I haven't spent any time listening to Definitive's newer lines so I don't know how the sub section in the 9080s compares to the 15" subs in the BP2000s. I can say that I recently went to a special SVS event at ListenUp in Denver and I don't think anything short of the Ultra series would add anything to my system and I just don't feel like I need more low end in my mid-sized room. Obviously if you are going with something smaller than top of the line towers then you'll want to consider a standalone sub or two and I highly recommend SVS. Even the least expensive SB-1000 they had set up with Prime satellites absolutely rocked. The 13" and 16" Ultra series subs can go toe to toe with anything out there.

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post #35554 of 35574 Old Today, 02:46 AM
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I'd be curious to know if anyone here has tried an Atmos setup with bipolar side and back surrounds. (No, I haven't had time to read back very far in this thread yet to see if these topics have already been discussed.)
While bi-poles may not be recommended, there's no reason to swap to mono-poles, I have all bi-poles for my entire ear level layer, and from what I've heard, (with my system and others) if your used to a system with bi-poles, you won't notice a problem or be disappointed in any way, compared to mono-poles with the new immersive formats.

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Also, I'd like to chime in on the standalone sub issue. I've never felt the need for a standalone sub with my BP2000s. I haven't spent any time listening to Definitive's newer lines so I don't know how the sub section in the 9080s compares to the 15" subs in the BP2000s. I can say that I recently went to a special SVS event at ListenUp in Denver and I don't think anything short of the Ultra series would add anything to my system and I just don't feel like I need more low end in my mid-sized room. Obviously if you are going with something smaller than top of the line towers then you'll want to consider a standalone sub or two and I highly recommend SVS. Even the least expensive SB-1000 they had set up with Prime satellites absolutely rocked. The 13" and 16" Ultra series subs can go toe to toe with anything out there.
While I've always had a separate sub to go with my front BP2000's, there really is a difference, esp if you move to multiple subs or like running your Fronts full range.
But there really is no comparison between the sub sections in the newer models and the BP2000's, IMO the 2000, 2002, 3000, 7000, 7001 or 7002, would be the only Supertowers I'd consider to be up to the task of actually doing a decent job of bass reproduction in a "no Sub" system.
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post #35555 of 35574 Old Today, 04:05 AM
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Very long time Definitive owner here. A few months ago I replaced my ancient B&K Reference 20 processor with a Marantz SR7010 receiver with Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 capability. I'm looking to do four ceiling Atmos speakers in the not too distant future. I've read through 27 of the 78 pages in the "Best in ceiling speakers for Atmos?" thread and so far there has been no talk from Definitive owners so I thought I'd ask for thoughts over here on the Definitive DT and DI series in-ceiling speakers. Also, I'd be curious to know if anyone here has tried an Atmos setup with bipolar side and back surrounds. (No, I haven't had time to read back very far in this thread yet to see if these topics have already been discussed.)

Here is my current setup.
BP2000 mains.
CLR2000 center.
BPX side surrounds.
Marantz SR7010. Using as a pre-amp for the ear level speakers. The receiver amps will power the Atmos speakers, though.
B&K 2-channel amp for the mains.
B&K 6-channel amp for the center and surrounds.

The B&K Reference 20 was a 5.1 processor. After many months of watching eBay, I recently picked up a second mint pair of BPX speakers to go to 7.1, but I haven't hooked them up yet. It wasn't until the day after I purchased those that I really started to think through and research future upgrades and it occurred to me that maybe bipolars aren't the best option for the new object oriented 3-D audio formats. Perhaps I should have sold my BPX speakers and picked up four Mythos surrounds instead. Now that I have them, I figure I might as well see how Atmos sounds with bipolar surrounds before I think about selling them.

I currently have a suspended ceiling, but I'm looking to replace that with drywall sometime in the next few months. That's when I'll do the Atmos speakers. I'm hoping to take the ceiling up to 8', but there are some complicating issues that may force me to stay at the height of the current ceiling, which is about 7' 9". Reading through the Dolby Atmos white paper and the ceiling speaker thread, it's clear that I need speakers with at least 90° dispersion. The DT and DI series in-ceiling speakers all say they have wide dispersion characteristics, but Definitive doesn't give any numbers on their website. Has anyone used them for Atmos? I'd also be interested to hear what anyone using them as standard surrounds thinks of them. I'd probably go with 6.5" or 8" coaxials. I want to cross them over at 80 HZ, so certainly nothing smaller. For timbre matching, sticking with Definitive for the Atmos speakers seems like the obvious way to go if their dispersion characteristics are suitable.

If you have Def Tech in-ceilings, I'd also be interested to know if you are using them with or without a backer box. Definitive's owner's manuals says they make backer boxes, but they don't have any info about them on their website. Maybe they perform great without a box, but it sure seems like getting decent mid-bass response would be tough without an enclosure. (Admittedly, I have no experience with in-wall or in-ceiling speakers.) Since I'm taking the old suspended ceiling down, I could construct custom boxes if I can get a recommendation on volume and damping material out of Definitive.

Lots of people in the ceiling speaker thread are raving about how great the Atlantic Technology IC-6OBA-S speaker is for Atmos. Particularly with an 8' or lower ceiling such as mine. They are saying the unique dual dipolar tweeter arrangement really reduces hotspotting issues. AT is marketing this as specifically designed for Atmos use.



That's got me wondering how the DT6.5STR with it's dual tweeter design would work for Atmos. (Obviously there is a big difference between bipolar tweeters and dipolar tweeters.) The DT6.5STR must have extra wide high frequency dispersion along the axis of the tweeters. It seems to be switchable between stereo mode where left and right are fed to a single speaker in a distributed audio system or bipolar surround mode according to the webpage. The manual doesn't have any detail on this.



Also, I'd like to chime in on the standalone sub issue. I've never felt the need for a standalone sub with my BP2000s. I haven't spent any time listening to Definitive's newer lines so I don't know how the sub section in the 9080s compares to the 15" subs in the BP2000s. I can say that I recently went to a special SVS event at ListenUp in Denver and I don't think anything short of the Ultra series would add anything to my system and I just don't feel like I need more low end in my mid-sized room. Obviously if you are going with something smaller than top of the line towers then you'll want to consider a standalone sub or two and I highly recommend SVS. Even the least expensive SB-1000 they had set up with Prime satellites absolutely rocked. The 13" and 16" Ultra series subs can go toe to toe with anything out there.
I have the di6.5 r without backer boxes. They sound good in my opinion. Also use 4 bpxs and the most important part is getting them low for atmos.
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Personally I would go ported. I was leary at first to go with a ported sub because I've only had sealed subs in the past but I never had a quality ported sub like SVS. It's fast, it's great for movies and music. I won't go back to a sealed sub again I don't think.

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Should I go with the pb-1000 or pb-2000 to go with my bp-9080s? Like everyones feedback. Thx
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post #35557 of 35574 Old Today, 11:53 AM
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Should I go with the pb-1000 or pb-2000 to go with my bp-9080s? Like everyones feedback. Thx
Depends on the size of your room. I have a medium size room but it's open to the kitchen and dining room and I have a PB-1000 and it rocks the place. You might need or what more and the PB-2000 is the better choice then.

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post #35558 of 35574 Old Today, 11:58 AM
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Depends on the size of your room. I have a medium size room but it's open to the kitchen and dining room and I have a PB-1000 and it rocks the place. You might need or what more and the PB-2000 is the better choice then.

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My gameroom is 19ft x 16ft. Thats probably considered small/medium right?
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post #35559 of 35574 Old Today, 12:04 PM
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My gameroom is 19ft x 16ft. Thats probably considered small/medium right?
If medium yes. Enclosed or open to other rooms? If it were me I'd go with 2 PB-1000 subs. Dual PB-1000 subs in the way I'd go.

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If medium yes. Enclosed or open to other rooms? If it were me I'd go with 2 PB-1000 subs. Dual PB-1000 subs in the way I'd go.

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Would my Denon 4300h support it if I go with 2 pb-1000s along with everything else?
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post #35561 of 35574 Old Today, 12:12 PM
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I would add if your budget allows it, two subs will even out the bass response in your room much better than one. Not necessarily more bass but more impact and not as boomy as a single sub can occasionally do depending where placed.
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post #35562 of 35574 Old Today, 12:15 PM
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Klipsch 15" sub at frys regularly at $399 waaaay better than svs pb1000.

Hsu vtf3 waaaaaay better than pb2000

Psa v1801 waaaaay better than pb12plus

Rythmik fv15hp Better than pb13ultra

Psa v3601 or jtr1400 better than pb16.

Really never a reason to go svs unless you find a used one for a steal.
Really? I never heard of Hsu before. Wonder where can i go to listen to one
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post #35563 of 35574 Old Today, 12:18 PM
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My gameroom is 19ft x 16ft. Thats probably considered small/medium right?
19 x 16 "game room", so I take it, it's a stand alone room with a door...
If so either 2 PB1000 or any of the 2000 series.

Honestly, if you're going to do one at a time, or can afford it up front, I'd go to the 2000 series, just a little extra cash now, for much more flexibility in the future, esp the PC series, smaller footprint and they can even be laid in their side for even more placement options.

But, don't forget... PB cabinets are "Large", if space and placement are of any concern, build a cardboard box to the proper dimensions, it will really help to realise the actual size of them.

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post #35564 of 35574 Old Today, 12:19 PM
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Really? I never heard of Hsu before. Wonder where can i go to listen to one
Dr Hsu was around before SVS began. SVS started from a member that posted on Home Theater Forum years ago I believe in the late 1990's. They only made cylindrical subs then. Quick sales and happy customers helped them expand quickly.
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Would my Denon 4300h support it if I go with 2 pb-1000s along with everything else?
Yeah you can always hook up 2 subs to a receiver. Just a Y splitter I think it's called and 2 RCA cables to each sub. Nice and easy.

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post #35566 of 35574 Old Today, 12:44 PM
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I have the di6.5 r without backer boxes. They sound good in my opinion. Also use 4 bpxs and the most important part is getting them low for atmos.
Ditto, separation between ear and height layers is much more important that the bi-pole - mono-pole issue.

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post #35567 of 35574 Old Today, 01:11 PM
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Don't go svs. Svs is a company that is good for many but not for people building an ultimate home theater. Hsu isn't with but the newer 15" subs really improved. I'd rather have vtf15 over pb13ultra.

Psa, rythmik, jtr are all so much better than svs.

Pb2000 is a very basic subwoofer.
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My 7001 have way more output than pb2000.

Svs aren't bad if you can get them cheap. For example I bought and sold a pb12plus for $500. Sold for $800.

My pb2000 was $380 on Craigslist. Right now guy is selling 2 pc13ultra for $1200. They are newer model as well with sledge amp.

Svs are more commonly sold used for a reason. Not very many people buy Psa xv30fse and sell. Same goes for Rythmik. the sweet spot for a great sub is $1200-1600. In fact 2 hsu vtf3 mk5 just might be a better option than one rythmik fv15hp. If you really want to have a even better system you'll get 2 subwoofers that are $3000-4000 for the pair.

You just need to know when you won't to stop. If all you ever want to spend is $1500-2000 get 2 hsu vtf3. $2000-2500 get two hsu vtf15. $2500-3000 get two rythmik fv15hp. $3000-3500 get two v3601 or rythmik fv18. $3500-4000 get two jtr 1400. Honestly after the rythmik fv15hp the upgrade becomes much smaller.

Hsu vtf3 is a bargain for a pair. 4 hsu vtf3 for about $3300 wound be an incredible setup. Probably sound better than all that I mentioned. Would give you a very even sound with great output. When you co locate vtf3 you'll get output around 113db@20hz and 123-25@50hz. If you had four add 3db or more maybe. Imagine 20hz at 116-119db. Than mid bass at over 130. Hsu is a bargain.
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19 x 16 "game room", so I take it, it's a stand alone room with a door...
If so either 2 PB1000 or any of the 2000 series.

Honestly, if you're going to do one at a time, or can afford it up front, I'd go to the 2000 series, just a little extra cash now, for much more flexibility in the future, esp the PC series, smaller footprint and they can even be laid in their side for even more placement options.

But, don't forget... PB cabinets are "Large", if space and placement are of any concern, build a cardboard box to the proper dimensions, it will really help to realise the actual size of them.
Space wouldn't be an issue and don't have the extra money. Would sound quality be better with 2 pb-1000 or 1 pb-2000?
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My 7001 have way more output than pb2000.

Svs aren't bad if you can get them cheap. For example I bought and sold a pb12plus for $500. Sold for $800.

My pb2000 was $380 on Craigslist. Right now guy is selling 2 pc13ultra for $1200. They are newer model as well with sledge amp.

Svs are more commonly sold used for a reason. Not very many people buy Psa xv30fse and sell. Same goes for Rythmik. the sweet spot for a great sub is $1200-1600. In fact 2 hsu vtf3 mk5 just might be a better option than one rythmik fv15hp. If you really want to have a even better system you'll get 2 subwoofers that are $3000-4000 for the pair.

You just need to know when you won't to stop. If all you ever want to spend is $1500-2000 get 2 hsu vtf3. $2000-2500 get two hsu vtf15. $2500-3000 get two rythmik fv15hp. $3000-3500 get two v3601 or rythmik fv18. $3500-4000 get two jtr 1400. Honestly after the rythmik fv15hp the upgrade becomes much smaller.

Hsu vtf3 is a bargain for a pair. 4 hsu vtf3 for about $3300 wound be an incredible setup. Probably sound better than all that I mentioned. Would give you a very even sound with great output. When you co locate vtf3 you'll get output around 113db@20hz and 123-25@50hz. If you had four add 3db or more maybe. Imagine 20hz at 116-119db. Than mid bass at over 130. Hsu is a bargain.
Will look around in the classified section. Thx
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Space wouldn't be an issue and don't have the extra money. Would sound quality be better with 2 pb-1000 or 1 pb-2000?
I purchased a psa v1801 that I am very happy with. With the intent of purchasing another somewhere down the line. My ht chairs shake during bass scenes. Not all that big of a box either. You might consider this if your budget allows.
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Space wouldn't be an issue and don't have the extra money. Would sound quality be better with 2 pb-1000 or 1 pb-2000?
In my opinion 2 PB-1000 would make the most impact. That's just my opinion though, others may disagree.

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post #35573 of 35574 Old Today, 02:23 PM
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Space wouldn't be an issue and don't have the extra money. Would sound quality be better with 2 pb-1000 or 1 pb-2000?

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In my opinion 2 PB-1000 would make the most impact. That's just my opinion though, others may disagree.

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Correct, if this would be your end setup, go with the 2 PB1000's over the single PB2000, should give you a more even response and move more air.

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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Don't go svs. Svs is a company that is good for many but not for people building an ultimate home theater. Hsu isn't with but the newer 15" subs really improved. I'd rather have vtf15 over pb13ultra.

Psa, rythmik, jtr are all so much better than svs.

Pb2000 is a very basic subwoofer.
How about a dual pair of HSU VTF-2 MK5 subwoofers?

A page ago I uploaded pics of my living room area. I can't fit 18 inch wide subs in the space I have and was thinking of going with the smaller version of HSU. Basically I was looking at SVS PB-2000, HSU or Rythmik. I was thinking of SVS as of recently but then have given more thought to the smaller HSU ones I mentioned. If I went larger I could only get one sub, and everything I've read keeps saying get dual even if that means smaller sub size.

Currently have the BP-8060's and a CS-8060 along with the SR-8040's as my surrounds.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html
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