Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1203 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36061 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Tested it few hours ago just to make sure I wasn't wrong. Was watching tv. First take on espn.

All speakers set to 60 or 80hz. No y split to subs just lfe. Crossover over on integra set to 120. Subs were making noise as they talk. Remember I'm 15 db hot.

Than I went to bedroom setup with clr2000, bp2002tl and Yamaha 3060. All 3 speakers set to 80hz. Bass set to 80hz. I just maxed out towers gain. Which I use lfe cable to each tower. Again bass from lfe in dialogue.

Not really sure what you are doing differently than me.

Also 9060 are probably ok speakers. You could get a pair of definitive bp7001 or bp7000 that would kill hsu vtf2 and bp7000 would be comparable to vtf3. Can get those for $1500-2000. Also my bp2002tl have more output and better sounding bass than my svs pb2000.

As far as the lfe in dialogue thing I guess will have to just agree to move on. Not going to agree. We each know what we have heard. I just think you are misunderstanding the part how I run my subs hot.
Not trying to be argumentative. Just a friendly discussion. I'm not misunderstanding what you are saying at all. I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. As I said, if your speakers aren't set to full range then you are going to get voice information out of your subs. You clearly state you are crossing over you speakers at 60 or 80 Hz. That is where the voice information in your subs is coming from. It is not from the actual .1 channel as mixed by the engineer. That is the difference between our setups. I have all speakers set to full range on my Oppo to get the pure LFE signal fed to my transducer from the blu-ray player's sub pre-out. I do have my center crossed at 60 Hz and my surrounds crossed at 80 Hz on my Marantz receiver so voice information below those crossover points goes to my mains since I don't have a standalone sub. If I did have a standalone sub or if I used the AVR's sub output to feed my transducer or the LFE inputs on my BP2000s then there would be voice information in the sub channel. That does not mean it is present in the engineer's mix of the .1 channel. It means your AVR is routing it there from the other channels.

Marantz SR7010 AVR (using as pre-amp), Logitech Harmony One Remote
B&K ST1400 Series II 2-ch amp powering fronts, AV6000 Series II 6-ch amp powering center, surrounds and tactile transducer
Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
Oppo BDP-93, Apple TV 4th gen, PS4, Rotel RCL-900 Line Conditioner
Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon

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post #36062 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Tested it few hours ago just to make sure I wasn't wrong. Was watching tv. First take on espn.

All speakers set to 60 or 80hz. No y split to subs just lfe. Crossover over on integra set to 120. Subs were making noise as they talk. Remember I'm 15 db hot.

Than I went to bedroom setup with clr2000, bp2002tl and Yamaha 3060. All 3 speakers set to 80hz. Bass set to 80hz. I just maxed out towers gain. Which I use lfe cable to each tower. Again bass from lfe in dialogue.

Not really sure what you are doing differently than me.

Also 9060 are probably ok speakers. You could get a pair of definitive bp7001 or bp7000 that would kill hsu vtf2 and bp7000 would be comparable to vtf3. Can get those for $1500-2000. Also my bp2002tl have more output and better sounding bass than my svs pb2000.

As far as the lfe in dialogue thing I guess will have to just agree to move on. Not going to agree. We each know what we have heard. I just think you are misunderstanding the part how I run my subs hot.
As an FYI, you can only really test this with a disc and no Upmixing, otherwise the signal may have already been re-mixed in some way.

*Warning* None of my suggestions, ideas or even thoughts have any WAF, in any way!
My Build Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...formation.html
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post #36063 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 02:27 PM
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So if I set all my speakers to large I'll only get effects bass from lfe channel?

Now I'd have to be really clever to eq the 7001 out of all the low bass. Sounds like I'm introducing some issues running them large. I'll try the test the way your stating.

I did read a article of the director of interstellar. He said he mixes lfe into dialogue to make a bigger impact in audio. So probably depends on the movie

I'll try what your talking about though.
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post #36064 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
So if I set all my speakers to large I'll only get effects bass from lfe channel?
Yep, this is what you will find. Perhaps there are a few exceptions out there where an engineer mixes some super deep bass from some monster's voice or something like that into the .1 channel, but normal dialogue is not mixed into the LFE channel. Off the top of my head I can't think of any exceptions I've noticed, and I watched Interstellar a couple of months ago. If the engineer mixed some voices into the LFE on that then it was very subtle or was done during a scene where so much else was happening that it wasn't noticeable. (I don't own it to do another check right now. I decided I'm not buying any more discs until I get a new 4K TV and blu-ray player. I just do rentals in the mail from Netflix. I've had my eyes on a Sony 85" but probably not until next year.)

Adding: Obviously setting all speakers to large on the AVR is not desirable in 99.9999% of cases since very few have speakers capable of playing down to 15 or 20 Hz on all channels. That's why I came up with my workaround of feeding the tactile transducer via the Oppo sub pre-out with everything set to large on there while setting the center and surrounds to small and properly crossing them over to feed them signals they can handle via the AVR.

Marantz SR7010 AVR (using as pre-amp), Logitech Harmony One Remote
B&K ST1400 Series II 2-ch amp powering fronts, AV6000 Series II 6-ch amp powering center, surrounds and tactile transducer
Def Tech BP2000 fronts, Def Tech CLR2000 center, Def Tech BPX side and back surrounds
Oppo BDP-93, Apple TV 4th gen, PS4, Rotel RCL-900 Line Conditioner
Adding Atmos in ceiling speakers soon

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post #36065 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 05:20 PM
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Everything set to large and bass xover on avr at 120hz.

Still get dialogue through sub when ran hot. At least we tried. Same result for me.
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post #36066 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 05:42 PM
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Never mind I figured why. I didn't reconfigure the eq. When I set to large now no dialogue comes out of sub. But it kills my bass for some reason.

I'll have to run some measurements this weekend. To see why.
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post #36067 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 06:19 PM
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Anyone ever hear the protower 400s? I wonder how it would compare to the Bp10s? I remember reading a very favorable review when they first came out. I don't think they had a very long run at all. Wonder why?
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post #36068 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 06:22 PM
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Anyone ever hear the protower 400s? I wonder how it would compare to the Bp10s? I remember reading a very favorable review when they first came out. I don't think they had a very long run at all. Wonder why?
Good friends have 4 of them. Great speaker. Not bipolar and has good bass. Bp10b are still better. As a surround I'd take pro tower. I like the directional sound.
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post #36069 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 06:27 PM
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Good friends have 4 of them. Great speaker. Not bipolar and has good bass. Bp10b are still better. As a surround I'd take pro tower. I like the directional sound.
Good to know. Thanks.
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post #36070 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 06:33 PM
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If you want some he's selling them. I think he wants $400 a pair though
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post #36071 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 06:42 PM
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If you want some he's selling them. I think he wants $400 a pair though
Thanks but I'm good. I need to get rid of some of my speakers myself.
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post #36072 of 36073 Old Yesterday, 07:06 PM
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He might trade you for something. Just an idea
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post #36073 of 36073 Old Today, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
I'm sure that's debatable and based on opinions. But just to throw an option out there...

Def Tech Towers with subs $2200

SVS Prime Towers (pr) $1000
Hsu VTF-2 MK5 (duals) $1159

DT Tower > 3-4.5" drivers
SVS Tower > 1-4.5" & 2-6.5" drivers

Those two 12" Hsu subs will kill those 10" Tower subs...

Don't forget about the center....


Debatable indeed. I thought you were talking about a DT set up that was better for that budget in which case Id prefer a pair of BP-2000TL + CLR 3000 over the 9060s

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