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post #36931 of 36951 Old Today, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
I agree it's actually for both, the improved imaging helps to create a more enveloping experience.

The same phenomenon happens with the multiple sub scenario, while one inadequate sub in a room can sound load enough and quite often boomy, bringing in multiple subs can often sound quieter to our ears but be more enveloping over all.
It's basically because our brains interrupt distortion as volume, take away that distortion (how ever minor it may be) and you'll also remove some of the perceived volume, it's pretty eye opening when you realise that the sound didn't get louder but imaged closer to you, and the speakers seem to disappear from the room.
I have a small living room and listen to -15dB when watching movies. Audyssey also has my trim levels to abkut -4dB.

Do you think I should look into amps still?

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post #36932 of 36951 Old Today, 01:22 PM
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I have a small living room and listen to -15dB when watching movies. Audyssey also has my trim levels to abkut -4dB.

Do you think I should look into amps still?
If this is about adding a good external amp then I'm all for it. I hooked up my older Parasound amp to my Yamaha receiver as the processor and it's quite a difference. Dynamics and headroom for days. They are powering SM 65 LCR and SM 55 surrounds. The Parasound is rated conservatively 140 watts all 5 channels.

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post #36933 of 36951 Old Today, 01:37 PM
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If this is about adding a good external amp then I'm all for it. I hooked up my older Parasound amp to my Yamaha receiver as the processor and it's quite a difference. Dynamics and headroom for days. They are powering SM 65 LCR and SM 55 surrounds. The Parasound is rated conservatively 140 watts all 5 channels.

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Forgot to mention, I'm using Marantz SR7011 as my receiver

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post #36934 of 36951 Old Today, 01:57 PM
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I have a small living room and listen to -15dB when watching movies. Audyssey also has my trim levels to abkut -4dB.

Do you think I should look into amps still?
What configuration are you running (7.1 / 5.1.4)? and what other speakers are you running?

Do you hear a difference in the speakers when listening to 2-Channel? While the 7011 is rated at 125w, that's with 2 channels driven. Try playing some music with both 2-Channel and All-Channel stereo and see if you can hear a difference in the way your Fronts sound, esp at different volumes, while in 2-Channel, there should be a sweet spot in your volume level where the imaging will be at its best, if there isn't, or it disappears when using more than 2 speakers, then yes you may want to look into a 2 or better yet 3 channel amp, personally I'd say at least something with 150w per channel (200w would be better and keeping you from wondering what if?) 50-65w per driver should be really nice for those 4.5's in the 9060's.
I know it doesn't sound like much more, but a true 150 w/ch from a good discrete amp, is quite a bit different than 125 w/ch from an AVR, even if only driving 2 channels.

Just because Audyssey has set your trim levels low, doesn't mean it's actually hearing the cleanest possible signal as well.

But it really will depend on what "you" are hearing, in "your" room, and because those are 4.5" drivers in your towers, you may actually already have enough.

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post #36935 of 36951 Old Today, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
What configuration are you running (7.1 / 5.1.4)? and what other speakers are you running?

Do you hear a difference in the speakers when listening to 2-Channel? While the 7011 is rated at 125w, that's with 2 channels driven. Try playing some music with both 2-Channel and All-Channel stereo and see if you can hear a difference in the way your Fronts sound, esp at different volumes, while in 2-Channel, there should be a sweet spot in your volume level where the imaging will be at its best, if there isn't, or it disappears when using more than 2 speakers, then yes you may want to look into a 2 or better yet 3 channel amp, personally I'd say at least something with 150w per channel (200w would be better and keeping you from wondering what if?) 50-65w per driver should be really nice for those 4.5's in the 9060's.
I know it doesn't sound like much more, but a true 150 w/ch from a good discrete amp, is quite a bit different than 125 w/ch from an AVR, even if only driving 2 channels.

Just because Audyssey has set your trim levels low, doesn't mean it's actually hearing the cleanest possible signal as well.

But it really will depend on what "you" are hearing, in "your" room, and because those are 4.5" drivers in your towers, you may actually already have enough.
Wow good info, thanks. I'm running 5.1.2.

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post #36936 of 36951 Old Today, 03:06 PM
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Forgot to mention, I'm using Marantz SR7011 as my receiver
Well Marantz is still good stuff but an external amp would make the overall sound better in my opinion. People will disagree but I believe a good amp will make a very big difference.

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post #36937 of 36951 Old Today, 03:14 PM
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Well Marantz is still good stuff but an external amp would make the overall sound better in my opinion. People will disagree but I believe a good amp will make a very big difference.

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I have a Marantz 1607 with front L and R pre outs and with my crown amp it has made a huge difference for me.

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post #36938 of 36951 Old Today, 03:17 PM
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I have a Marantz 1607 with front L and R pre outs and with my crown amp it has made a huge difference for me.

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Yeah that's nice and you would hear a huge difference. Very nice, I used to run crown amps and they have power that never runs out and doesn't break a sweat. Good choice. What Def Techs are you running for L/R? I'm a little later to the party here.

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post #36939 of 36951 Old Today, 03:23 PM
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Yeah that's nice and you would hear a huge difference. Very nice, I used to run crown amps and they have power that never runs out and doesn't break a sweat. Good choice. What Def Techs are you running for L/R? I'm a little later to the party here.

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I'm running 9060 towers right now...and what made you move away from separates?..and have you tried crowns V2 XLS amps?...with there .775 voltage reads they are perfect for home use.

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With the size of my bp3000s I'm sure they would benefit from more power. I do have a Yamaha 3040 and I'm sure running 7 channels lowers the overall rating. I use an old denon to run my 4 atmos speakers. Looks like the Crown is a good choice. Was it easy to integrate?
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post #36941 of 36951 Old Today, 03:51 PM
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With the size of my bp3000s I'm sure they would benefit from more power. I do have a Yamaha 3040 and I'm sure running 7 channels lowers the overall rating. I use an old denon to run my 4 atmos speakers. Looks like the Crown is a good choice. Was it easy to integrate?
Was very easy...just plug and play basically.RCA's from AVR to amp... banana plugs from amp to towers.Play a movie or music and enjoy...As a side note crown does supply a pitiful short power cord with there amps like 3 feet...lol...I'll be getting a longer one shortly.

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post #36942 of 36951 Old Today, 04:11 PM
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I'm running 9060 towers right now...and what made you move away from separates?..and have you tried crowns V2 XLS amps?...with there .775 voltage reads they are perfect for home use.

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I have separates. Parasound 5 channel amp and Yamaha receiver as the processor. It's the only way to go in my opinion. I don't like in general what the receiver manufacturers are doing with the amp sections.

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post #36943 of 36951 Old Today, 04:15 PM
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With the size of my bp3000s I'm sure they would benefit from more power. I do have a Yamaha 3040 and I'm sure running 7 channels lowers the overall rating. I use an old denon to run my 4 atmos speakers. Looks like the Crown is a good choice. Was it easy to integrate?
Just for reference, since my 2000's have the same mid drivers....
When I went from using the AVR to using 125 w/ch Marantz MA-500 mono-blocks, I did hear a difference, and it was better.
Going from the mono-blocks to an Emotive XPA-3 (200 w/ch ) this difference was negligible, but there.
But.... Going from the XPA-3 to the XPR-2 (600 w/ch) the difference was really incredible, and everything I've been trying to describe came about.
My personal opinion on DefTech's older 6.5" drivers is at least 100w per driver is really where you want to be.
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post #36944 of 36951 Old Today, 04:18 PM
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I have separates. Parasound 5 channel amp and Yamaha receiver as the processor. It's the only way to go in my opinion. I don't like in general what the receiver manufacturers are doing with the amp sections.

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Gotcha...and yes I agree about the amps in AVR's these days I am sold on separates now and will continue to use them.I had no idea what I was missing until I tried them.

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post #36945 of 36951 Old Today, 04:20 PM
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Gotcha...and yes I agree about the amps in AVR's these days I am sold on separates now and will continue to use them.I had no idea what I was missing until I tried them.

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Oh yeah you got it now. People will claim all amps sound the same but that's total BS. I love separates, just my opinion.

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post #36946 of 36951 Old Today, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Just for reference, since my 2000's have the same mid drivers....
When I went from using the AVR to using 125 w/ch Marantz MA-500 mono-blocks, I did hear a difference, and it was better.
Going from the mono-blocks to an Emotive XPA-3 (200 w/ch ) this difference was negligible, but there.
But.... Going from the XPA-3 to the XPR-2 (600 w/ch) the difference was really incredible, and everything I've been trying to describe came about.
My personal opinion on DefTech's older 6.5" drivers is at least 100w per driver is really where you want to be.
So basically 400w per speakers with 4 -6.5 drivers. Wow that's a lot of power. Might have to try a xls2002.

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So basically 400w per speakers with 4 -6.5 drivers. Wow that's a lot of power. Might have to try a xls2002.
Yup, you'll hear a difference with 200-250w per speaker, but to get to their sweet spot you really should have more.
This is why back when they were new, everyone used to say that these speakers loved power.
Besides if your going to spend the money, why not do it right the first time, if you can.

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All this amp talk, I'm currently using (from the getgo it's been a temp) a Yamaha Rx-a770, 95/wpc. My problem is I was looking into upgrading to amps and using my receiver as my processor and of course there's no pre outs for external amps......

So I think that now I'm stuck with this 95 wpc receiver and I'll have to purchase ANOTHER receiver that has pre outs & then amps on top of that, is that my only option at this point?


Side note: using mythos st-l for mains and mythos st for surrounds, what amp would you guys suggest? I see a lot of good about the crown amps. Any specific model anyone could point me towards? Doesn't have to be crown either, any kinda suggestion would be cool.


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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Yup, you'll hear a difference with 200-250w per speaker, but to get to their sweet spot you really should have more.

This is why back when they were new, everyone used to say that these speakers loved power.

Besides if your going to spend the money, why not do it right the first time, if you can.


What’s the difference between the bp3000’s and the 2000’s?


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post #36950 of 36951 Old Today, 05:28 PM
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All this amp talk, I'm currently using (from the getgo it's been a temp) a Yamaha Rx-a770, 95/wpc. My problem is I was looking into upgrading to amps and using my receiver as my processor and of course there's no pre outs for external amps......

So I think that now I'm stuck with this 95 wpc receiver and I'll have to purchase ANOTHER receiver that has pre outs & then amps on top of that, is that my only option at this point?


Side note: using mythos st-l for mains and mythos st for surrounds, what amp would you guys suggest? I see a lot of good about the crown amps. Any specific model anyone could point me towards? Doesn't have to be crown either, any kinda suggestion would be cool.


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I went this route and never looked back. http://carvermk2.com/m10tmkII/m10tmkII.htm

I read the reviews/comments along with if I didn't like the amp they would buy it back plus $50 when I got mind. I was thinking BS, and took the plunge just to see. It was everything they said and more. Now I have 3 of them. You'd have to pry them away from me. One of my best purchases ever.

There's been plenty of talk about separate power amps over the years. I remember one member getting hot with me saying no way did it make a difference. He later took the plunge and has been hooked every since.

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Ok.. what’s the newest DT towers that has at least 6”-6.5” drivers? ..with a built in sub?


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