Definitive Owners Thread - Page 1233 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #36961 of 36970 Old Yesterday, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Yup, you'll hear a difference with 200-250w per speaker, but to get to their sweet spot you really should have more.
This is why back when they were new, everyone used to say that these speakers loved power.
Besides if your going to spend the money, why not do it right the first time, if you can.
I think the crown 2002 is rated near 400 watts per channel.
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post #36962 of 36970 Old Yesterday, 02:52 PM
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I'm slightly confused and maybe I am just thick and not understanding this, but I see a lot of people recommending amps and power that's a lot above the RMS and even the "max" power handling capabilities on their speakers...

If I was to get an amp for my st-l towers, they're technically only rated max power @ 350 watts and my st are rated max @ 300....


Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I wanted to listen to these @ reference levels using say.... 400-500 watt per channel amp, would that not do untold damage to my speakers? Especially considering they're only rated @ 100 RMS... my understanding was that the RMS power rating is what is recommended by the manufacturer as what you should be using to consistently power the speakers.. or am I incorrect about what the RMS is saying?

Like I said, I'm truly not understanding why you guys are recommending what you're recommending and I'd really appreciate someone taking a few minutes to explain it so I can make an educated decision on what processor & amps I should purchase.


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post #36963 of 36970 Old Yesterday, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BrigadierAngus View Post
I'm slightly confused and maybe I am just thick and not understanding this, but I see a lot of people recommending amps and power that's a lot above the RMS and even the "max" power handling capabilities on their speakers...

If I was to get an amp for my st-l towers, they're technically only rated max power @ 350 watts and my st are rated max @ 300....


Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I wanted to listen to these @ reference levels using say.... 400-500 watt per channel amp, would that not do untold damage to my speakers? Especially considering they're only rated @ 100 RMS... my understanding was that the RMS power rating is what is recommended by the manufacturer as what you should be using to consistently power the speakers.. or am I incorrect about what the RMS is saying?

Like I said, I'm truly not understanding why you guys are recommending what you're recommending and I'd really appreciate someone taking a few minutes to explain it so I can make an educated decision on what processor & amps I should purchase.


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Speakers are virtually never driven at anywhere near the full output of the amp that drives them....unless they're woefully under-powered. So it's not conceptually correct to think of listening to them at reference (or any other) level and equating that to any particular amp output.

I would respectfully disagree that DefTech towers are power-hungry and need hundreds of watts per channel to open up. Like any speaker, they don't perform well if under-powered, but driving them with good amps capable of their recommended max is more than enough for a really great sounding system.
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post #36964 of 36970 Old Yesterday, 03:17 PM
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Speakers are virtually never driven at anywhere near the full output of the amp that drives them....unless they're woefully under-powered. So it's not conceptually correct to think of listening to them at reference (or any other) level and equating that to any particular amp output.



I would respectfully disagree that DefTech towers are power-hungry and need hundreds of watts per channel to open up. Like any speaker, they don't perform well if under-powered, but driving them with good amps capable of their recommended max is more than enough for a really great sounding system.


So basically what you're saying is, if I were to purchase a 400 wpc amp, and drive my two st-l's which are rated @ 350, at reference levels there is a good chance that at reference levels I'm only seeing maybe 200 of those 400 watts, putting it 150 watts underneath what it's max is? The #s used are obviously just numbers pulled out of thin air and are used as examples.


Do I need to be worried about the RMS rating as I am? I have always tried to keep what I've powered my speakers at as close to the RMS rating as possible but it seems that people are closer to the max rating than the RMS rating.


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post #36965 of 36970 Old Yesterday, 04:25 PM
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Im looking into the XPR series by Emotiva, does anyone run these with their DTs? Would be more than enough power to make just about any tower sing.
I do and they are prefect for the older 6.5" Supertowers.
I run an XPR-2 for my mains (600 w/ch) and an XPR-5 for my Center and both front (since I can't run wides right now) and rear surrounds. (400 w/ch).
That's one hell of a set up. I've been searching far and wide and those amps are not easy to come by.
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post #36966 of 36970 Old Yesterday, 05:01 PM
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That's one hell of a set up. I've been searching far and wide and those amps are not easy to come by.
I just got lucky and found these locally, used from the same guy.

The electric company loves me, I'm running those and 2 XPA-5's, when all the speakers are connected (I stopped duplicating my overheads for now)

If you take the AVR out of the equation (since I'm using it as a pre-amp) and figure in the amps from the Supertowers and Subs I have 9400w of peak available power, which is complete overkill, esp since only 1250w of that is actual Subs (LFE)

I never claimed to be Normal or Right....

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post #36967 of 36970 Old Yesterday, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post
Speakers are virtually never driven at anywhere near the full output of the amp that drives them....unless they're woefully under-powered. So it's not conceptually correct to think of listening to them at reference (or any other) level and equating that to any particular amp output.

I would respectfully disagree that DefTech towers are power-hungry and need hundreds of watts per channel to open up. Like any speaker, they don't perform well if under-powered, but driving them with good amps capable of their recommended max is more than enough for a really great sounding system.
My only thought is that the older 6.5 speaker line more than likely needs more power as their are 4 big drivers and two tweeters in each speaker. I know that when I brought home the bp3000s I was amazed at their size and I have owned the Bp30s for many years. I will find out soon enough, I mean it's worth a try as I can always sell the amp if I don't notice a difference. I do believe I will notice a difference though coming from a Yamaha 3040.
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post #36968 of 36970 Old Yesterday, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by keeper View Post
My only thought is that the older 6.5 speaker line more than likely needs more power as their are 4 big drivers and two tweeters in each speaker. I know that when I brought home the bp3000s I was amazed at their size and I have owned the Bp30s for many years. I will find out soon enough, I mean it's worth a try as I can always sell the amp if I don't notice a difference. I do believe I will notice a difference though coming from a Yamaha 3040.
Let me be clear....I wasn't arguing for receivers. In fact, I'm skeptical of the amp section in most receivers....I think manufacturers give them short shrift because they know that processing bells & whistles are the selling points. I've used separates for about 15 years.

I have the older 6.5"s all around. Anthem A-Series amps drive them all at ~250wpc, and I feel they have all the clarity and headroom they could possibly need. Seriously, we can crank it up to ear-splitting levels for really bombastic action movies or TV, and it still never loses imaging or detail, with plenty left in reserve.

I should note that I use my DefTechs mostly for home theater, as I don't happen to like DefTechs much for music. (Also worth noting is that all five primary channels have integrated powered woofers, which likely does somewhat mitigate the demands on the power amps.)
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post #36969 of 36970 Old Yesterday, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BrigadierAngus View Post
I'm slightly confused and maybe I am just thick and not understanding this, but I see a lot of people recommending amps and power that's a lot above the RMS and even the "max" power handling capabilities on their speakers...

If I was to get an amp for my st-l towers, they're technically only rated max power @ 350 watts and my st are rated max @ 300....


Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I wanted to listen to these @ reference levels using say.... 400-500 watt per channel amp, would that not do untold damage to my speakers? Especially considering they're only rated @ 100 RMS... my understanding was that the RMS power rating is what is recommended by the manufacturer as what you should be using to consistently power the speakers.. or am I incorrect about what the RMS is saying?

Like I said, I'm truly not understanding why you guys are recommending what you're recommending and I'd really appreciate someone taking a few minutes to explain it so I can make an educated decision on what processor & amps I should purchase.


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For the most part, those power ratings are for "safe" operation of the speaker in order to achieve its specified parameters.
So in general...
The minimum power rating is the minimum amount of power needed for that speaker to achieve its advertised/rated db level within the specified measuring parameters.
The maximum power rating is the maximum amount of power you should have available to "safely" reach these parameters without damaging the speaker, and trying to go beyond those parameters.
So basically, as long as you don't have more than the recommended maximum power available and you have a clean signal, you "shouldn't" damage the speaker.

But since speakers draw power and amps don't push power, having more than the maximum power available won't hurt anything unless "you" try and get more than their rated capability out of them.
This is why it's said that having too much power isn't a problem, trying to utilize too much power can be.

Now for what I was talking about, and our discussion on driver efficiency.
Remember, an audio driver is nothing more than a diaphragm built to a certain specification, designed to move back and forth with an electro magnet. And besides the size of the magnet, one of the big deciding factors on how fast that diaphragm moves is determined by the amount of power given to, or available to, that magnet.
So, the more available power (to a point), the faster the diaphragm can move the desired amount, this is of course transient response, and the quicker and more accurate the transient response (starting and stopping) the more defined the frequency reproduction.
While you may still be able to move that driver the required amount with lower wattage, having the higher wattage available should, in most cases, give you headroom for better response under higher dynamic situations, where the transient response is more vital to the reproduction, since your not reaching the amplifiers limits for that speaker under those conditions, but the higher available power should also improve the transient response of that speaker under normal operation as well.

Hope this helps.

Oh....
(Now for the aggravating part)

While the above is true in general, the minimum, maximum and most efficient amount of power is not only dictated by driver size, but driver construction and design as well, this is why not all speakers/drivers have the same power correlations, and therefore the same results in a change of sound with differing amounts of power.
So the earlier discussions of actual amounts, really only apply to the speakers we were referencing, but it's fairly accurate for DefTech's drivers in general.

One more reason why speakers aren't One Size Fits All.
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post #36970 of 36970 Old Yesterday, 06:10 PM
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Me, as long as the features are there, today, processing is usually the same between the AVR and comparable Pre-Pro, so I tend to lean toward using an AVR as a Pre-Pro, then you have back up amps, if you have a failure and need a repair on one of your separate's.
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