Definitive Owners Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by cubenruben View Post


Also I was wondering since the deftechs have built in subs how would I go about setting up the subs on the speakers and also setting up my klipsch sub? I have no idea. is there a splitter for a sub that will make 1 sub out into 3? what have you guys done?

the speakers are 80 percent for movies, games and cable and 20 percent for music.

Thanks!

Been there and done that several times with different Def Tech systems... Def Tech towers are designed to provide their full range through the regular speaker connections without using the dedicated subwoofer connection--but to send the .1 LFE through the regular speaker wires, you would need to do that in your receiver's setup. Otherwise, I have also used two hardware (as opposed to "Y's" splitters plugged into each other and into the LFE output of the receiver which would give three LFE outputs and you could connect your mains' subwoofer inputs AND dedicated subwoofer input that way--it works!!

After trying the above and testing whether or not it made any real difference in the LFE (dedicated connections OR running the LFE through the regular speaker wires), I could not distinguish much difference either in listening or measuring with my Rat Shack sound meter. Chet at Def Tech indicated that there should be no difference--he is always a tremendous source of information and assistance should you need Def Tech Support or another opinion and I value his opinions very much:

cpelkowski@definitivetech.com

My last (and final!!!) way to split to three dedicated subs is the use of a Velodyne SMS-1 parametric equalizer and WOW, did it make a difference in equalizing all three dedicated subs at the same time for the listening position.

My advice to you is to use the KISS principle and, if your receiver permits it, just run the .1 LFE through the regular speaker wires to your mains and the dedicated LFE output to your dedicated sub.

Good luck,

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #452 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 03:17 PM
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Here are our Mythos 2 side speakers and our Mythos 3 center channel speaker. We are using them with 2 already installed-when we built our house 10 years ago "other brand" rear in-the-ceiling speakers - and an "other brand" subwoofer (barely visible on left).

I am extremely happy with these speakers. They are beautiful - and sound great for what I'd call "average" listening (movies - CDs - no ancient opera recordings played on $10,000 turntables). They were pretty easy to install (we couldn't do an in-wall installation because we have metal studs and the cost of redoing the metal studs for the center channel was prohibitive). The installation hardware was very nice (not like a lot of the crummy plastic stuff I saw on other brands).

This project (removal of old wall unit - ordering/installation of new cabinets - etc.) has been going on for over a year now - and we're still not finished. Next step is buying a larger TV and a new receiver (note that the receiver we're currently using is a 10 year old middle of the road Sony). But - so far - I am a happy camper (except for when the painters spilled paint on the rug - don't get me started on that ). Robyn
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post #453 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 03:32 PM
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Where is a good place to host the pictures so they show up?

I've read a few pages of this thread - and didn't see that your question was answered. I "hosted" my picture here - uploaded it to the forum photo gallery - and then copied it into this thread. It was pretty easy. If you need specific directions - feel free to PM or email me. Robyn
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post #454 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by khellandros66 View Post

If you are looking for a great brand to switch to Triad is good choice. M&K is too. I think it would be hard to like just ONE brand, more truthfully you PREFER a brand.

~Bob

I live in the metro Jacksonville FL area (admittedly not a huge metro area - just a bit over a million people) - and the problem with Triad is that the only dealer here has no stock - nothing to listen to. It's all special order - and "trust us". I'll buy some things this way - but not speakers. Robyn
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post #455 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 05:41 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by CubenRuben:
Also I was wondering since the deftechs have built in subs how would I go about setting up the subs on the speakers and also setting up my klipsch sub? I have no idea. is there a splitter for a sub that will make 1 sub out into 3? what have you guys done?

I just set up some BP2006s up front. I had a cheap Sony SA-WM40 sub with them. I have since removed it because I found the bass to be virtually that same with or without. I have mine set up with the speaker level connection, even though they have the LFE input. I have my receiver set to no sub forcing the LFE to the mains. I tried it with a Y-splitter and sub cables to each LFE with the mains set to large and the sub set to yes. I found it to be weaker, way weaker bass. I am in a room that is 21x24x10 and I find the 2 little 8 inch subs, 250watts are plenty of bass for me at least, enough to make the wife mad.

Lowell


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post #456 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

I just set up some BP2006s up front. I had a cheap Sony SA-WM40 sub with them. I have since removed it because I found the base to be virtually that same with or without. I have mine set up with the speaker level connection, even though they have the LFE input. I have my receiver set to no sub forcing the LFE to the mains. I tried it with a Y-splitter and the mains set to large and the sub set to yes. I found it to be weaker, way weaker bass. I am in a room that is 21x24x10 and I find the 2 little 8 inch subs, 250watts are plenty of bass, enough to make the wife mad.

I agree. I have tried every variation and speaker level is the way to go.

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post #457 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by g_bartman:
I agree. I have tried every variation and speaker level is the way to go.

Thanks for confirming that, I thought maybe I was doing something wrong. I even went through 2 splitters and 4 cables. The last 2 cables were even Monster "sub" cables. I couldn't believe how much better the speaker level connections worked.

Lowell


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post #458 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

250watts are plenty of bass for me at least, enough to make the wife mad.

Gee--I figured that I was the only husband in the world that made the wife mad when there was decent LFE for movies.

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #459 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeSp View Post

Gee--I figured that I was the only husband in the world that made the wife mad when there was decent LFE for movies.

MikeSp

Please - enough of the "wife stuff" already. Has it ever occurred to any of you guys - quite a few of you are older than I am - that your hearing is somewhat impaired? I am 58 - and my husband is 61. He happens to be more sensitive than I am when it comes to low frequencies (probably because I grew up with louder music than he did) - but he has lost some of his high frequency range. And don't get me started on our fathers - both of whom need/needed (one of them is dead) "BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM" to hear anything in their systems once they were 65+. They are/were both too vain/stubborn to get hearing aids. It is a statistical fact of life that guys tend to lose their hearing earlier than women do.

As for you younger guys - watch your sound levels. Or you'll wind up with impaired hearing at a much earlier age than your fathers.

Our speaker system is relatively puny compared to some of those that have been mentioned here - but I can set it to a level where I can knock stuff off cabinets with it. If you need that much to "hear" - then I really think you ought to get your ears checked. Robyn
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post #460 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robyn55 View Post

Please - enough of the "wife stuff" already. Has it ever occurred to any of you guys - quite a few of you are older than I am - that your hearing is somewhat impaired? .

As for you younger guys - watch your sound levels. Or you'll wind up with impaired hearing at a much earlier age than your fathers.
If you need that much to "hear" - then I really think you ought to get your ears checked. Robyn

My ears have been checked and at 61 years of age, I have some high frequency hearing loss as is to be expected. HOWEVER, the comments about WAF referred ONLY to LFE which means nothing above 80 Hz.

Be aware that some of us like to FEEL the LFE which is why we have so much subwoofage and in my situation, significant LFE has no WAF in my home--especially when the house is shaking as depth charges are going off or Godzilla is making big steps, etc. during movies.

In regards to damaging hearing, it is the loud higher frequencies that are more likely to damage hearing than the extreme low bass frequencies many of which are not even heard but felt which enhances the home theater movie experience. YMMV

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #461 of 31351 Old 06-06-2006, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike and Robyn,

I was in drumline in my HS marching band and because the snares were to my left. I have some lose in the upper range near 15kHz-20Khz and so my right ear is fine I perfect hearing in that ear so I am always taking percaution to keep that all good and to not let my left ear get any worse. Doing an online hearing test at 10kHz (max the fs in test allows) I am rough 1dB less sensitive in my left then my right ear.

~Bob
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post #462 of 31351 Old 06-07-2006, 03:18 PM
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My husband played the snare drum. Maybe he was one of the guys on your left . Robyn
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post #463 of 31351 Old 06-07-2006, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by khellandros66 View Post

Mike and Robyn,

I was in drumline in my HS marching band and because the snares were to my left. I have some lose in the upper range near 15kHz-20Khz and so my right ear is fine I perfect hearing in that ear so I am always taking percaution to keep that all good and to not let my left ear get any worse. Doing an online hearing test at 10kHz (max the fs in test allows) I am rough 1dB less sensitive in my left then my right ear.

~Bob

Drums have some the greatest range of volume of any musical instrument and also the most rapid. Want to really try to clip your amplifier--try a CD of a loud complex drum solo. When at a McIntosh demonstration at my dealer, the Mac engineer was showing off the protective circuitry proving that those particular amps could not be clipped--that the protective circuitry would cut in before clipping could occur. What did they use for source material played through a pair of Def Tech BP7000's -- a CD of a complex drum solo. It was AMAZING that a drum solo had such a dynamic range that it easily hit 400 watts per channel and beyond before the protection lights came on. Now that was LOUD!!!! (THEN they decided to try using the same speakers and 1000 watt Mac monos and it was not difficult to hit 1000 watts/channel and the BP7000's handled that many watts---AMAZING. Note to Robyn--wish I had brought my gun muffs--that was waaaay too loud but I point this experience out since I doubt that many would think (A) drums could have that much dynamic range and (B) that a pair of BP7000's could handle 1000 watts each. (Note to Robyn--I rarely drive my 7000's above 30 watts or so during exciting movies and that easily produces THX reference sound levels.)

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #464 of 31351 Old 06-07-2006, 05:05 PM
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Or how about Drumline ? Ever since I've seen that movie I've wanted to go to the Battle of the Bands in Atlanta (which is only about a 6 hour drive from me). Unfortunately - it's held in "ice storm" season - but still - one of these days I might take a chance and buy tickets (it's usually a sold out event).

In our family - we have somewhat of a reversal of roles. I like things pretty loud (with a big bass - although not big enough to shake things off the shelves) - and my husband prefers things at lower volume. The Mythos speakers that we have can satisfy either of us (depending on who has the volume control!). And the center channel speaker - for movie dialogue - is nice - clear and crisp. I know the larger speakers sounded better - the fellow in our local store that sells Def Tech speakers hooked up just about every pair so we could listen to them. But the ones we have are entirely adequate for our set-up and listening needs.

By the way - in response to some messages in this thread - I don't care what speakers you have - there is no substitute in my opinion for a subwoofer. It's an essential part of any audio experience. Robyn
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post #465 of 31351 Old 06-08-2006, 07:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robyn55 View Post


By the way - in response to some messages in this thread - I don't care what speakers you have - there is no substitute in my opinion for a subwoofer. It's an essential part of any audio experience. Robyn

I have used a subwoofer with my BP10b's before. I found it unsatisfying. When the low bass is sent to the mains it is actually tighter and more authoritative than the sub. It is also integrated with the higher frequencies better.
I must add, however, that Def Tech is the only brand of speaker that I would do this with. No other passive speakers that I have heard have comparable bass response, regardless of size or price.
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post #466 of 31351 Old 06-08-2006, 08:38 AM
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Interesting to read the opinions on separate subwoofer vs. the built-in subs in the BP towers. I just bought a pair of BP7006s and a CLR2300 and am not planning on buying a separate sub - I'll have to see how things sound when I setup everything (which should be this weekend). I was planning on connecting the LFE cables to the towers but after reading people's comments, it looks like I'll have to experiment b/w using LFE and the regular speaker cables.

My blog: Koolio - Thoughts and news on technology
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post #467 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 03:17 AM
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just my speakers hooked up last night. Didnt play much with them yet. So I cant tell you guys how it really sounds, also I am using my old receiver which is a low end receiver, Yamaha HTR5650. I will be getting a new receiver soon. I will get to play with it some more tomorrow or tonight. As soon as I got my speakers and set them up and took out my old speakers and sub the wife got home and wanted to watch the MTV awards so I didnt have to time to play with them.
Go REDSOX
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post #468 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 06:06 AM
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Got my 7004's - sound terrific but one of the boxes was damaged, and sure enough the attenuator knob for the LF on the back of one of the speakers is damaged. Of course the authorized retailer will replace the damaged speaker (Mag/BB). My question is if they should be replaced as a pair, since they were obviously packaged and sold together as a pair with consecutive serial numbers. I started insisting on this, but I sense some resistance form the store in meeting this request, so I thought I'd see what you guys think...
Go YANKEES!

lee
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post #469 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 07:41 AM
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Any improvement in imaging (which there may have been, though subtle) was overshadowed by the severe loss of bass. This was much more extreme than the reduction in woofer size alone can account for, and was probably caused by the disconnected rear mid/bass driver acting as an out-of-phase passive radiator. The result sounded exactly like a decent but small tower with response to around 50-60hz (eg. the Polk M20.)
I have re-connected the rear drivers, and appreciate the awesome sound more now for having tried the experiment

I thought I already responded to this, but I don't see the post...

I think you said you're using BP8s. I think those guys share a chamber between the front and rear sections, in which case you are right -- you now have a passive radiator, and I'm not sure what that's going to do for you! You're also moving way less air in the chamber and through the ports to generate bass, which is the effect you witnessed.

Now, with the BP2002TL, I'm not sure if the front and rear arrays share a chamber or not. I think the sub may be responsible for all bass and resides in its own chamber. If so, I may be able to remove the rears and still maintain bass. We'll see if I get there... So much to do!

Thanks for the experiment, though, PULLIAMM -- it's an interesting result. I really like the DTs, but, like we've said, they're suboptimal for 2-ch (which, FWIW, seems to be less and less of a big deal to me -- I just like to tweak for free). I would like to see DTs offer a robust on/off control for the rears, as well as a tweeter attenuation (and perhaps passive EQ?). I find them just a bit bright or forward sometimes. But beautiful speakers -- both in looks and sound! Just so much there to play with.

Have a great day all!!!

-- Otto

--Otto
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post #470 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 11:28 AM
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I may have missed this in previous posts, but is anyone running a 7.1 setup withy their Def-Tech's? If so, what are you using for fronts, surround, and "back" surround? Do you notice a significant improvement from a 5.1 setup?
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post #471 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 12:44 PM
 
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I have 7002's for mains,CLR 2002 for center,BPVX's for surrounds and BPX's for back channels EX/ES position. I also have a supercubeII for low end bass. The system to say the least rocks!
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post #472 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 12:46 PM
 
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Also 7.1 in my opinion is not needed unless you have a good size room. If they surround channels and back channels are too close together it creates a mess of sound in the back of your theater. If you have enough room and space between the speakers I say go for it.
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post #473 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 03:43 PM
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how do I tell which speaker is right and which one is left? I have the bp7004 and I was feeling the side of the speakers and I felt a sub on one side and then the other side had 2 speakers so I was wondering how to face them?
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post #474 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 05:37 PM
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the powered subs face in, toward one another.

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post #475 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 06:03 PM
 
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What do you do when you have the new 7002's where you have supercubes in them? Which way do you pint them? I have the two big subs facing in while the one sub is facing out. is that right? Thanks J.H.
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post #476 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

the powered subs face in, toward one another.

okay how do I tell where the power subs are located? are they on the side with two mounted woofers or one? I have the side with two combs facing in.
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post #477 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cubenruben View Post

okay how do I tell where the power subs are located? are they on the side with two mounted woofers or one? I have the side with two combs facing in.

On the bottom of each speaker you'll feel a 10" cut-out for the subs on each side of the speaker. Above that you'll feel another 10" cut-out, but only on one side of the speaker. These higher cut-outs should face each other.

The way it was explained to me is that the bass is boomier and less defined when the subs face outward, tighter but less boomy when they face inward (toward each other). I would think most users would therefore choose the latter.

lee
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post #478 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stixx View Post

I may have missed this in previous posts, but is anyone running a 7.1 setup withy their Def-Tech's? If so, what are you using for fronts, surround, and "back" surround? Do you notice a significant improvement from a 5.1 setup?

mains = 7000SC's
center = CLR3000
side surrounds = BP2000's
rear surrounds = BPVX/P's

I am running a 6.1 system with both BPVX/P's (rear centers) driven from the same amp channel and obviously carryng the same information. In DTS-ES and THX-EX there is a substantial difference in the entire surround effect with the additional channel -- but how much difference depends upon that particular 6.1 movie. I usually have my pre/pro's DSP derive the 6th channel from 5.1 material and it also adds to the overall surround effect, but not nearly as well as the dedicated 6.1 source material. The BPVX/P's disperse a wide soundfield in their center rear positions (about 5 feet apart). There is also a surprising amount of bass from their little built-in subs.

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #479 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidziti View Post

On the bottom of each speaker you'll feel a 10" cut-out for the subs on each side of the speaker. Above that you'll feel another 10" cut-out, but only on one side of the speaker. These higher cut-outs should face each other.

The way it was explained to me is that the bass is boomier and less defined when the subs face outward, tighter but less boomy when they face inward (toward each other). I would think most users would therefore choose the latter.

BUT, with varying room acoustics, there is the real possibility that facing the active drivers out MIGHT sound better as is indicated in the manual. Trial and error, trial and error

(I currently have the active drivers pointing in, but when they are moved to their new homes in a few months, I will try them both ways to see which provides the best sound).

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #480 of 31351 Old 06-09-2006, 11:37 PM
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