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khellandros66's Avatar khellandros66 11:12 PM 07-27-2006
The Vifa MTM kit I bought matches up perfectly to my tower it wa only $228

~Bob

mschiff's Avatar mschiff 11:15 AM 07-28-2006
Does anyone have a suggestion on how to mount the SM350 and SM450 speakers on a wall so that they can be aimed a bit? I need to be able to aim a set of SM350s at a downward angle (they will be mounted near the ceiling) towards the listening position, and the 450s I would like to be able to "toe in" just a bit towards the center of the listening "sweet spot". I know they have the keyhole mount, but that puts them flat against the wall. In the case of the SM450s that wouldn't be too awful, but with the SM350s it would not work well at all.

-- Martin
schroedk's Avatar schroedk 12:10 PM 07-28-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschiff View Post

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to mount the SM350 and SM450 speakers on a wall so that they can be aimed a bit? I need to be able to aim a set of SM350s at a downward angle (they will be mounted near the ceiling) towards the listening position, and the 450s I would like to be able to "toe in" just a bit towards the center of the listening "sweet spot". I know they have the keyhole mount, but that puts them flat against the wall. In the case of the SM450s that wouldn't be too awful, but with the SM350s it would not work well at all.

-- Martin

I used wall speaker mounts when I used direct radiating rear speakers. Since I've upgraded to my BPX surrounds, I no longer need the mounts. They can accomodate a speaker up to about 30 lbs., as well as adjustable depths (I think up to about 14 inches, but I'd have to measure them again). Since they hold the speaker out away from the wall to which it's mounted, they can be swiveled in about a 110 degree arc (roughly), and angled down about 15 degrees. Since I'm no longer using these mounts, if you're interested in buying them from me, feel free to PM me and we'll see what we can work out. Otherwise, I bought them online, so you might just try google.com and see if you can find something. The mounts I have don't require screws into the speakers; the speakers just sit on the mount, and are secured with cushioned vise-like holders on front and back. In 3 years of using them, I never had a problem with instability.
schroedk's Avatar schroedk 12:14 PM 07-28-2006
I actually just googled wall mounts for you, and the mounts I have are the sanus WMS2 mounts. Videomountstore.com is selling them for $45/pr. plus shipping. They do have other mounts, as well. Good luck!
mschiff's Avatar mschiff 12:37 PM 07-28-2006
Thanks very much Schroedk. Those do look very interesting, but there is one problem with using something like that with the SM350 and SM450. The end caps are not actually fastened to the speakers. I think the weight of the speaker could allow them to topple forward out of the (very light) pressure fitting of the endcap if they were angled towards the floor. Otherwise, they seem to be an excellent solution.

Any thoughts?

-- Martin
schroedk's Avatar schroedk 12:45 PM 07-28-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschiff View Post

Thanks very much Schroedk. Those do look very interesting, but there is one problem with using something like that with the SM350 and SM450. The end caps are not actually fastened to the speakers. I think the weight of the speaker could allow them to topple forward out of the (very light) pressure fitting of the endcap if they were angled towards the floor. Otherwise, they seem to be an excellent solution.

Any thoughts?

-- Martin

Very good point. I'll see if I come up with anything else.
subodh's Avatar subodh 01:17 PM 07-28-2006
Hey guys, im getting up a def. tech system right now, and i was wondering where you guys are placeing your subs. I have the 7002s with the SCII. Directly behind in the center of the room, or the one of the back corners? I figure the front is taken care of with the 300 watt subs in the two towers. So where does the SCII go in the back?

subodh
PULLIAMM's Avatar PULLIAMM 01:38 PM 07-28-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by subodh View Post

Hey guys, im getting up a def. tech system right now, and i was wondering where you guys are placeing your subs. I have the 7002s with the SCII. Directly behind in the center of the room, or the one of the back corners? I figure the front is taken care of with the 300 watt subs in the two towers. So where does the SCII go in the back?

subodh

The whole room is taken care of by the subs in the towers, not just the front. Adding an SCII to the 7002's is massive overkill, like shooting a butterfly with an elephant gun!
g_bartman's Avatar g_bartman 03:01 PM 07-28-2006
I tried putting a sub at the back of my room (in a corner) but found I could localize it. My svs sits proudly between my 2002 tl's and works well there.
dcm2284's Avatar dcm2284 09:13 PM 07-29-2006
I just googled for help with my Deftechs and found this thread. I read through every single post and learned alot but I still have a question about my center.

I too am going with SM350s on stands with a pair of P80s in the rear and a P80 25 watt sub.
I have pretty much made my mind up on the Denon 2807 for my reciever MIGHT hold out for the new Pioneer Elite (84) coming out. Suggestiong for a DefTech Center?

I was leaning towards 2002 but having second thoughts and might consider the C2.

PS: its a small apt no more than 10x10 but it is an investment for when I move to some place bigger.
riceaterslc's Avatar riceaterslc 01:50 AM 07-30-2006
i had the same problem when i bought my center, but i talked the dealer down to under $300 for the 2002 and am quite happy with the purchase so far.
dcm2284's Avatar dcm2284 09:55 AM 07-30-2006
is it overkill? The size of the drivers match but I'm just worried about the draw on the receiver. For the time being I am just running everything off my denon 2807.

also what are your rears?
audiomanz's Avatar audiomanz 07:08 PM 07-30-2006
Woohoo!! I just won a pair of SM 350's off of Ebay! I may use them for both 6.1 surround duty(just 1 speaker) when watching movies but primarily they will be used in my bedroom for 2 channel listening. Any recommendations with setup for 6.1 and 2 channel listening. Suggestions, opinions much appreciated. Thanks Def Tech owners.

audiomanz
brandonc's Avatar brandonc 09:14 PM 07-30-2006
i have the 7002s with a supercube I and yeah it may be a lil overkill at times but if your a fan of big time bass and room rattling go for it and you'll never regret it like i have. i run a audioquest y adapter for my 2300 center and my supercube Iand just speaker wire to the 7002s and its great.many places have a return policy so try it out.
khellandros66's Avatar khellandros66 11:51 PM 08-01-2006
No doubt in my mind as to the benefits to a dedicated sub used with the power towers.

Just got the new Nonpoint version of "In the Air Tonight" from the new Miami Vice movie (great movie btw) and wow. I was just blown away by this new version,

My DIY sub (with the new enclosure I built) has a Q of 0.79 so the 40-70Hz range is killer for music. Plus I can hit the 15Hz range smoother and no more issues either.

If it were me I would select the following options

BP7006 + SC II or SC III
BP7004 + SC I or SC II
BP7002 + SC Ref or SC I
BP 7001/7000 + SC Trinity or SC Ref

~Bob
MikeSp's Avatar MikeSp 10:06 AM 08-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

The whole room is taken care of by the subs in the towers, not just the front. Adding an SCII to the 7002's is massive overkill, like shooting a butterfly with an elephant gun!

My experience is just the opposite. When I purchased my 7000 mains, I figured that with their built-in Ref SC's that I would no longer need my trusty old PF1800 dedicated sub and left it disconnected and thought that the bass from the new 7000's to be excellent -- and I was using the 7000's as "large" AND had the LFE inputs on them used as well. Then I decided to just experiment and connect up the PF1800 and the LFE in movies was SUBSTANTIALLY better -- like night and day difference!!!! Thus, my experience shows that even with built-in subs, a dedicated sub can add a substantial amount to the LFE in movies. (Since then, I added a pair of Ref SC's and equalize the three dedicated subs with a Velodyne SMS-1)

MikeSp
CoolCanuck's Avatar CoolCanuck 02:10 PM 08-02-2006
I have PB10Bs, CLR2002, and BP2X matched up to an SVS PB12 +2 sub. Receiver is a Denon AVR-3802.

I'm running this with speakers set to 'Small' and a 80Hz crossover, but I'm curious if anyone has a similar configuration and is running their BP towers at 'Large' setting? From the specs for frequency response it would seem that the BP6,8 and 10Bs are all considered full-range.

Any other tips on the cross-over?

Thanks,
Jason
MikeSp's Avatar MikeSp 02:23 PM 08-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolCanuck View Post

I have PB10Bs, CLR2002, and BP2X matched up to an SVS PB12 +2 sub. Receiver is a Denon AVR-3802.

I'm running this with speakers set to 'Small' and a 80Hz crossover, but I'm curious if anyone has a similar configuration and is running their BP towers at 'Large' setting? From the specs for frequency response it would seem that the BP6,8 and 10Bs are all considered full-range.

Any other tips on the cross-over?

Thanks,
Jason

Jason -- Some Def Tech owners will set their towers as "small" and obtain a better sound when using a dedicated sub -- in their opinions. Your speakers ARE large by definition and if your receiver allows you to set the mains as "large" and still will send the .1 LFE to your sub, I would sure give it a try -- you have nothing to lose and possibly better sound to gain.

MikeSp
OttoSpiral's Avatar OttoSpiral 03:22 PM 08-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSp View Post

I was using the 7000's as "large" AND had the LFE inputs on them used as well.
MikeSp

Hi Mike,

Just curious how you are doing that. Are you running full range from your amp into the 7000 with all the bi/tri-wiring straps connected together? And then you're going in with a LFE signal from your amp into the 7000 as well?

I've never had a chance to play with the 7000s, but I have the 2002TL, and I had to remove the strap to the "low" speaker-level input.

I'm sure you have it hooked up right and/or I'm mixed up about the 7000 tower.
MikeSp's Avatar MikeSp 03:31 PM 08-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoSpiral View Post

Hi Mike,

Just curious how you are doing that. Are you running full range from your amp into the 7000 with all the bi/tri-wiring straps connected together? And then you're going in with a LFE signal from your amp into the 7000 as well?

I've never had a chance to play with the 7000s, but I have the 2002TL, and I had to remove the strap to the "low" speaker-level input.

I'm sure you have it hooked up right and/or I'm mixed up about the 7000 tower.

In the setup menus of my pre/pro I can select whether or not I send the LFE to the speaker through the regular speaker wiring or through the pre/pro's LFE output (or both) as well as run the speaker as large or small along with either of the other two possibilities. I am sure that some receivers have this same capability, but am unsure of which ones. Hope that this made sense.

MikeSp
OttoSpiral's Avatar OttoSpiral 05:14 PM 08-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSp View Post

In the setup menus of my pre/pro I can select whether or not I send the LFE to the speaker through the regular speaker wiring or through the pre/pro's LFE output (or both) as well as run the speaker as large or small along with either of the other two possibilities. I am sure that some receivers have this same capability, but am unsure of which ones. Hope that this made sense.
MikeSp

Gotcha. But how are your 7000s connected to your pre/pro and your amp, and how are the bi/tri-wiring jumpers connected on the 7000s?

Actually, an ignorant question here, but are the 7000s biwirable or triwirable? My 2002TLs are triwirable for "low", "mid" and "high" inputs, as coming from the amplifier (speaker-level). I have the jumper removed to the "low" input, and send "large" to the jumpered "mid" and "high" inputs (yes, debatable as to "should my pre have the mains set to small?"). Then I send L/R to the 2002's "full range" input, coming from my preamp.

I guess I'm wondering if you're doubling up on your "low" input -- one coming from the amp at speaker level, and one coming from your pre/pro and going into the 7000 LFE input...
MikeSp's Avatar MikeSp 07:45 PM 08-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoSpiral View Post

Gotcha. But how are your 7000s connected to your pre/pro and your amp, and how are the bi/tri-wiring jumpers connected on the 7000s?

Actually, an ignorant question here, but are the 7000s biwirable or triwirable? My 2002TLs are triwirable for "low", "mid" and "high" inputs, as coming from the amplifier (speaker-level). I have the jumper removed to the "low" input, and send "large" to the jumpered "mid" and "high" inputs (yes, debatable as to "should my pre have the mains set to small?"). Then I send L/R to the 2002's "full range" input, coming from my preamp.

I guess I'm wondering if you're doubling up on your "low" input -- one coming from the amp at speaker level, and one coming from your pre/pro and going into the 7000 LFE input...

Otto--on 7000's there are speaker connections for the high end and the mid/low end (total of 2+ and 2- connections) plus the LFE input.

I have tried the following combinations of setups with my pre/pro and the 7000's always with he speakers set to large and both speaker connector jumpers in place and at least one dedicated sub connected to the LFE output of the pre/pro:
(A) LFE input used and no LFE sent through regular speaker connections
(B) LFE input not used at all and the LFE sent through regular speaker connections.
(C) LFE input used PLUS LFE sent through regular speaker connections ("doubling up" as you described)

Allegedly, using the LFE dedicated input (method A) provides slightly tighter LFE and that was the way that I ran my mains until I added two Ref SC's and found through experimentation and a Rat Shack meter and my aging nongolden ears that there was little difference in the LFE out of the 7000's no matter which one of the three methods I used that were described above (the "doubling up" really did not produce enough difference to worry about). Thus, I ended up using method (B) since I have only one LFE output on my pre/pro and my parametric equalizer has three LFE outputs to run 3 dedicated subs.

Hope this answered your question;-)

MikeSp
khellandros66's Avatar khellandros66 08:33 PM 08-02-2006
Otto,

The 700# series employ a newer crossover thats set at

Tweeter to Mid to LF

What it does is at 120Hz it re-route the LF info to the amp and then to the Sub.

With your 2002 There are in fact three separate crossovers (Tri-wireable), if you were to remove the straps for the LF section you would need to use the RCA connection for LF. Where as the 700X does it automatically, and you can also use the LF input, which in my own experience is more sensitive and gives a slight boost in the LF volume.

~Bob
OttoSpiral's Avatar OttoSpiral 03:48 PM 08-03-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSp View Post

Hope this answered your question;-)

Yep. I also had a look at the manual and emailed with a DefTech rep. I think I now understand how the 7000 is working and, of course, you have it set up right. I was just surprised that you had a lack of bass -- that you would want subs. Must be a big room ;-)

Have a good night.
OttoSpiral's Avatar OttoSpiral 04:05 PM 08-03-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by khellandros66 View Post

Otto,

The 700# series employ a newer crossover thats set at

Tweeter to Mid to LF

Not sure what that means...

Quote:


What it does is at 120Hz it re-route the LF info to the amp and then to the Sub.

Not sure for the whole 700x series, but the BP7000SC proper is crossed to the sub at 80 Hz.

Quote:


With your 2002 There are in fact three separate crossovers (Tri-wireable), if you were to remove the straps for the LF section you would need to use the RCA connection for LF. Where as the 700X does it automatically, and you can also use the LF input, which in my own experience is more sensitive and gives a slight boost in the LF volume.

Actually, I think they all have three crossovers. You're right about the 2002 and the connection straps. From the info I got from DT, it sounds like they are really using the LFE input to sum the LFE in with the mains, and that you should not set the sub control to "mains + LFE" or however the particular pre/pro/receiver calls it.

FWIW, I think I've played with all combinations of LFE in, full-range in, speaker wire only, etc. with the 2002s. I ended up coming from my amp to the mid/hi and using full range line-level signal from my pre/pro. I think this gives me a nice balance for music (to which I do not listen enough), but can be a little thin on the movie side. I'm also using a BFD to equalize each 2002 separately, and I'm using another BFD to EQ my M&K sub. The M&K is on the way out as far as I'm concerned, and I'm considering a 2x15" DIY or perhaps a 4x15" IB baffle in my ceiling (no manifold). We'll see...

Later.
khellandros66's Avatar khellandros66 06:36 PM 08-03-2006
Typically 120Hz is chosen because there is some kind of effect that occurs if you crossover lower, not that this applies to Definitive, as they probably found a way around this occurance.

IIRC on an IB the manifold makes it easier to fit the drivers in a smaller spot or one thats limited in placemnet.

~Bob
kidziti's Avatar kidziti 01:39 PM 08-04-2006
I hear an awful lot about how important the center channel is to 5.1. Perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing yet, but my imaging sounds great with just two BP7004 towers and a sub. I plan to add the back channels (Def Tech studios on stands rather than the bulky bipolars for which there is no wall on which to mount them). I'd really like to skip the bulky center channel - more for aesthetic reasons than for price to be frank. Is this a big audiophilic no no? Are there any alternatives to imaging such as ghosting a center channel?
MikeSp's Avatar MikeSp 01:51 PM 08-04-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidziti View Post

I hear an awful lot about how important the center channel is to 5.1. Perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing yet, but my imaging sounds great with just two BP7004 towers and a sub. I plan to add the back channels (Def Tech studios on stands rather than the bulky bipolars for which there is no wall on which to mount them). I'd really like to skip the bulky center channel - more for aesthetic reasons than for price to be frank. Is this a big audiophilic no no? Are there any alternatives to imaging such as ghosting a center channel?

It is really not an audiophilic thing about having and using a center channel for home theater -- most of the dialogue comes from the center channel as well as other information. Ghosting a center channel will get you by as your system is gradually built, but IMHO your system would sound MUCH better with a center channel.

MikeSp
HiFiListener's Avatar HiFiListener 03:12 PM 08-05-2006
Hello, I originally posted this over in the Receivers forum. I received a response, but thought I would post here as well. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiListener View Post

Hello, I have a 3806. I have a separate sub. I am "test driving" a pair of Definitive Technology 7004s. I have the subwoofer output set to "LFE+Main" and the Front speakers set to "Large". The only connection from the AVR to the front speakers is the normal speaker wire. Does all the LFE channel output get sent to the front speakers in this setting? Or do I need to split the LFE and send it to each speaker via a seperate cable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

The DefTechs have SWs built into them right? A setting of MAIN+LFE should send all the signal to the speakers. Do the speakers have a low level input for the LFE? If not, then the above scenario should work, maybe somebody in the speaker forum could be more specific.


mschiff's Avatar mschiff 09:57 PM 08-05-2006
For those of you who are looking for a way to mount a Def Tech center channel on a wall, I have found the perfect solution. B-Tech TV mounts (http://www.pinpoint-mktg.com/tvbrac.htm). The BT525 works fantastic for the CLR3000 center, and there are other smaller models that would work well for the smaller ones. Also, the BT77 speaker brackets work great on the SM350 and SM450 if you don't have shelves.

I've got nothing to do with them, but I am a satisfied customer. I used the BT525 to mount my CLR3000 above my projection TV, and it worked great.

-- Martin
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