Definitive Owners Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 31376 Old 09-08-2006, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

Are you saying there is a noticible difference setween the 2002tl's and the 7002's when it comes to music?

Absolutely. An undenialble difference. Particularly if you are familiar with the sound of the BP2002TL's. I had read reviews and came across opinions from owners in different audio forums and my curiosity was aroused. Long story short, I really didn't want to spend the money until a local chain TV/audio store had a demo sale on the 7002's. The price was extremely right, and armed with the knowledge that Def. Tech had upgraded their line, I took them home. Impressive, most impressive. More detailed and refined. Bass is tighter and more controlled. Just plain more listenable. Of course you will have to play with it to get it to your liking.
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post #722 of 31376 Old 09-08-2006, 04:52 PM
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I am using a Velodyne SMS-1 parametric equalizer to equalize two Reference SC's and a PF1800 and it does a great job. BUT -- the two SC's have "auto-on" circuitry to turn them on and during the calibration procedure, the SMS-1 will NOT cause them to turn on. I must put in a DVD and switch the pre/pro to THX 5.1 in order for them to switch on (can then turn the DVD player off) and THEN do the calibration if it doesn't take longer than 10 minutes. HOWEVER, if I am moving the subs around and fiddling with the phase controls, it takes time and after ten minutes or so, the two SC's with auto-on turn off.

QUESTION: is this behavior typical of the SMS-1 and Supercubes?
Thoughts, opinions??

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #723 of 31376 Old 09-08-2006, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSp View Post

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am using a Velodyne SMS-1 parametric equalizer to equalize two Reference SC's and a PF1800 and it does a great job. BUT -- the two SC's have "auto-on" circuitry to turn them on and during the calibration procedure, the SMS-1 will NOT cause them to turn on. I must put in a DVD and switch the pre/pro to THX 5.1 in order for them to switch on (can then turn the DVD player off) and THEN do the calibration if it doesn't take longer than 10 minutes. HOWEVER, if I am moving the subs around and fiddling with the phase controls, it takes time and after ten minutes or so, the two SC's with auto-on turn off.

QUESTION: is this behavior typical of the SMS-1 and Supercubes? (I have called and emailed Velodyne for support, but not received any).

Thoughts, opinions??

MikeSp

Mike, not to turn this into a Velodyne thread (even though I am a big fan & dealer for them too) but there is a great Velodyne support thread at AVS which is moderated by Velodyne employees, so check it out and see if you get the assistance you are looking for!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=87&pp=30

Adz
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post #724 of 31376 Old 09-08-2006, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adz523 View Post

Mike, not to turn this into a Velodyne thread (evn though I am a big fan & dealer for them too) but there is a great Velodyne support threat at AVS which is moderated by Velodyne employees, so check it out and see if you get the assistance you are looking for!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=87&pp=30


Sorry Adz -- I guess I missed the Velodyne group -- thanks for the heads-up!!

AND Curt over there provided some great Velodyne tech support--dunno what was the original cause of this issue of the SMS-1 not triggering my standalone subs auto-on feature, but it is working great now--perhaps just some sort of hiccup that will never reappear (I HOPE).

Mike

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #725 of 31376 Old 09-09-2006, 12:57 PM
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I have had this Def Tech setup for about 4 years and still going strong...

2- BP2002
1- C/L/R2002
4- BPX

All Powered by A Denon AVR5800, Also the low end is supplumented with 2 ButtKickers.

Lately I have been thinking about a redesign for my HT and one particular question comes to mind after researching:

When the front speakers are closer than 3.5 feet towards the front wall you are supposed to use sound dampening on the wall directly behind the speaker to stop sound reflection. This sounds like it defeats the purpose of the rear driver array? Or?

Thanks
Mike

The cheese fell off my cracker a long time ago...
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post #726 of 31376 Old 09-11-2006, 10:20 AM
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I want a surround system for my living room where I am mounting my plasma
the room is 20(L) and 25(W) height is around 15-20Ft.
we plan to use it for 75% HT and 25% for music.
We are currently looking at the MYTHOS line of speakers and also
the Pro-Cinema Systems.

To be more specific I was looking at the MYTHOS 4 System
Mythos Four Tower Speaker for front , Mythos Three Center-Channel Speaker,
Mythos Gem Surround Speaker, SuperCube II Subwoofer
and MYTHOS 5 system
Mythos Five for front , Mythos Seven for center channel ,Mythos Gem Surround Speaker, SuperCube II Subwoofer


In the Pro-Cinema we were thinking about their
New ProCinema 800 and ProCinema 1000 Systems

Please suggest which one of these should I go with.

thanks in advance
-cai
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post #727 of 31376 Old 09-11-2006, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike C View Post

I have had this Def Tech setup for about 4 years and still going strong...

2- BP2002
1- C/L/R2002
4- BPX

All Powered by A Denon AVR5800, Also the low end is supplumented with 2 ButtKickers.

Lately I have been thinking about a redesign for my HT and one particular question comes to mind after researching:

When the front speakers are closer than 3.5 feet towards the front wall you are supposed to use sound dampening on the wall directly behind the speaker to stop sound reflection. This sounds like it defeats the purpose of the rear driver array? Or?

Thanks
Mike

this is a good question, I have bp10's with a reflective surface almost 1ft from their rear... Debating a whole ht makeover but don't know if I should stick w/ bipoles.
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post #728 of 31376 Old 09-11-2006, 03:44 PM
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I'm going to be redoing my HT Room this fall and I'm going to use all DT speakers. At this point I'm looking at the BP7000SC for the fronts, the C/L/R 3000 for the center and the BPVX/P for the rears. For those who have had these speakers or similar ones from Definitive some answers to the following questions would be greatly appreciated.

**Would you recommend a separate sub or would that be overkill with the quality of the sub for the front speakers I'm buying? I don't want to sacrifice quality so if a separate sub is truly better I would go that route but I don't want to buy something that isn't needed.

**Do those with 2 side speakers and 2 back speakers enjoy that set up for movies more than simply having 2 speakers for surround sound?

**If I don't add a sub to this set up do I simply set all the speakers to Large on the receiver, or do I need to do something different to make sure I have the subs working as the .1 in my 5.1 set up?

**I'm going to probably purchase this setup along with the soon to be released Sony 70"XBR2 and a receiver, what kind of price off of retail should I be happy with from a local Magnolia store?

Thanks for any help you guys can provide and I'm looking forward to joining all of you as a Definitive owner!
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post #729 of 31376 Old 09-11-2006, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy2sp View Post

I'm going to be redoing my HT Room this fall and I'm going to use all DT speakers. At this point I'm looking at the BP7000SC for the fronts, the C/L/R 3000 for the center and the BPVX/P for the rears. For those who have had these speakers or similar ones from Definitive some answers to the following questions would be greatly appreciated.

**Would you recommend a separate sub or would that be overkill with the quality of the sub for the front speakers I'm buying? I don't want to sacrifice quality so if a separate sub is truly better I would go that route but I don't want to buy something that isn't needed.

**Do those with 2 side speakers and 2 back speakers enjoy that set up for movies more than simply having 2 speakers for surround sound?

**If I don't add a sub to this set up do I simply set all the speakers to Large on the receiver, or do I need to do something different to make sure I have the subs working as the .1 in my 5.1 set up?

**I'm going to probably purchase this setup along with the soon to be released Sony 70"XBR2 and a receiver, what kind of price off of retail should I be happy with from a local Magnolia store?

Thanks for any help you guys can provide and I'm looking forward to joining all of you as a Definitive owner!

I currently am using 7000's for my mains, the 3000 for the center and my old mains (BP2000's) for the sides and BPVX/P's for rear surrounds. I have used the BPVX/P's for my only surrounds and they work great. I provide this info so that you know that I have experience with the speakers with which you have questions. Your first question is the most difficult to answer--the 7000's provide awesome LFE IF they are correctly wired and your receiver's setup is correctly done. Through MUCH experimentation, I found that running all speakers as large (they ARE large in that they carry the full range of sound 20-20,000 Hz) and then running the .1 LFE from my pre/pro to the LFE inputs of the 7000's provides outstanding subwoofage. BUT, since I like LOTS of subwoofage, I added a pair of Reference Supercubes and that adds about 50% more subwoofage at the most. Tuning a room and tuning the subs when you have that many can present lots of challenges -- where waves of the same wavelength collide can cause nulls or muddy bass and there can be peaks that are difficult to tame

You should be able, in your receiver's setup menus, set your speakers to large WITH subwoofer and that should enable you to use the LFE output (split it off using a Y connector, to both of your 7000's and you could even use the hardware splitters that piggyback into each other for three outputs from a single LFE out in the event that you wish to use a dedicated sub too. The setups of various receivers are different, so the details of the receiver's setup must come from the information about that particular receiver in how it handles the LFE, surrounds and mains.

As to using two rear surrounds AND two side surrounds, YES, it DOES make a substantial difference although there is no discrete 7.1 source material on DVDs unless it is found on the new blu-ray or HD-DVDs. By using your receiver's DSP modes, it can produce a very pleasing sound for the rear surrounds and there is THX-EX and DTS-ES which utilize the rear surrounds, but not very many DVDs are encoded with 6.1 surround like that. IMHO, yes, adding two rear surrounds in addition to side surrounds enhances the surround effect and the BPVX/P's are fantastic for that, although for the rears you might consider the BPVX's and save a few bucks.

There is nothing magic about Magnolia and Best Buy -- I would certainly check with all of your local audio stores that sell Def Techs and find the best bang for the buck. Many of the audio stores that carry Def Techs have factory authorized sales periodically and a common discount then is 25%. For what you are buying, I would not expect less than a 25% discount or its equivalent on the entire speaker package although Def Tech expects their speakers to sell at retail price unless they authorize a sale. As I recall from reading various postings, Magnolia sometimes has sales in which it is a buy one Def Tech speaker at retail and get the second at half price sale which equates to a 25% off of both speakers.

BTW -- Def Techs LOVE power -- while they sound good with modest power, they sound better with more quality watts.

Good luck

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #730 of 31376 Old 09-11-2006, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy2sp View Post

I'm going to be redoing my HT Room this fall and I'm going to use all DT speakers. At this point I'm looking at the BP7000SC for the fronts, the C/L/R 3000 for the center and the BPVX/P for the rears. For those who have had these speakers or similar ones from Definitive some answers to the following questions would be greatly appreciated.

**Would you recommend a separate sub or would that be overkill with the quality of the sub for the front speakers I'm buying? I don't want to sacrifice quality so if a separate sub is truly better I would go that route but I don't want to buy something that isn't needed.

**Do those with 2 side speakers and 2 back speakers enjoy that set up for movies more than simply having 2 speakers for surround sound?

**If I don't add a sub to this set up do I simply set all the speakers to Large on the receiver, or do I need to do something different to make sure I have the subs working as the .1 in my 5.1 set up?

**I'm going to probably purchase this setup along with the soon to be released Sony 70"XBR2 and a receiver, what kind of price off of retail should I be happy with from a local Magnolia store?

Thanks for any help you guys can provide and I'm looking forward to joining all of you as a Definitive owner!

That is my exact set-up in my showroom! You will love it. It truly delivers the most impressive surround sound performance I have heard to date.

Incorporating separate subs is a really a factor of the size of your room, your budget, sub placement and interation issues and of course how much gut-wrenching bass you really really want. If it made sense, for gut wrenching bass, I generally recommend separate subs in the back corners of the room handling just the LFE duties and then running the front 7000SC towers as large, but not using the LFE as that can cloud the mids and highs produced by the front soundstage.

A significant reason why Def Tech is such a great solution for home theater are the extraordinary bi-polar BPVX/P and BPVX surround speakers. If possible and again depending on your room , you definitely will want four surrounds (I recommend the powered BPVX/Ps for the side surrounds and the and the BPVXs for the back surrounds). Proper placement of the four surrounds most importantly approx. 2-3 feet above the listening position presents a seamless soundstage with the fronts and adds to the sense of spaciouness they create. Its very cool!

What you have at the end of the day is 26x 6.5" woofers and 13x 1" tweeters immersing you in pure surround heaven, not to mention the built-in supercubes and perhaps separate subs. If you live around the NY Tri-State area, feel free to stop in for a demo.

Adz
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post #731 of 31376 Old 09-11-2006, 07:11 PM
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Thanks for the thoughts so far guys. At this point it sounds like the extra two speakers would be worth the it, and possibly the extra deditcated sub. It sounds like it would be best to put the dedicated sub behind the viewing area in the corner. Is this what you have also done Mike?

Thanks again for all the input, I'm looking forward to getting to hear this package.


Andy
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post #732 of 31376 Old 09-11-2006, 09:07 PM
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I have a slightly different, but similar system. PM900s in front, a CLR3000 center and BPVX/P surrounds. I am very happy with the soundfield that these offer, without the extra 2 speakers for 7.1. Effects from the sides and rear are awesome with the BPVX/Ps. Despite the fact that all of my speakers have powered subs, I still feel the need for a separate sub. The Def Techs subs seem more designed for good bass, rather than sub-bass (i.e. below 40Hz). I know that they claim that they go that low and more, but I feel a good dedicated sub handles that part of the spectrum better. I am anxiously awaiting delivery of a new SVS PB12-NSD. I am currently using a Velodyne CHT-12.

I used Avia to balance my system, and felt that the best results were obtained by running all of the speakers as "small" with a 50 or 60Hz crossover. Also, I felt the need to reduce the levels of the subs to keep the sound from becoming too muddy. With them adjusted that way, they sound great both for HT and music. With more bass on the Def Tech speaker subs, music starts to sound kind of boomy to me. That way the directional bass sounds come from the speakers, and the sounds that are too low to be directional come from the separate sub(s).

You can always buy the Def Techs first and then decide for yourself if you need a sub.

BTW, I hear a lot of people that seem to be confused about the purpose of the built in powered subs and how to wire them. Def Tech does not recommend connecting the subs to the LFE output. They recommend connecting them either just by using speaker wire and letting the internal crossover handle the routing to the sub, or bi-wiring from the preamp out of the channel that is for the speaker (i.e. the center preamp out to the CLR3000 rca input) and speaker wire for the other driver and tweeter. In discussing this issue with Def Tech support, they feel that optimum results can be gotten with the first method. That's how I have mine wired (just speaker wire), and it works great. The Def Tech crossover sends everything below 80Hz to the sub.

My sub is underneath the right front speaker right next to the TV. I have not tried it in the rear, but it seems to me that the front would be a better choice if you have room.

-- Martin
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post #733 of 31376 Old 09-11-2006, 10:49 PM
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Martin,

Thanks for your suggestions. If I get a seperate sub to go with my system would you recommend the same sub that is in the main speaker, or should I get a different one?

Also, to make sure that the LFE goes to the seperate sub would I hook up the system like my current 5.1 set up and set the front speakers to small? Or can I set the front speakers to large and still have the LFE go to the seperate sub? Thanks again for your help,


Andy
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post #734 of 31376 Old 09-12-2006, 06:18 AM
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Andy,

It is my opinion (and that of MANY sources that I've read, including the Def Tech manual I think) that if you have a separate sub, ALL speakers regardless of their capabilities should be set to small. Then (if your receiver has the capability) you have the ability to adjust the crossover in your receiver to take best advantage of both your speakers and sub. Setting them as large eliminates this capability. That assigns the frequencies that are handled best by each type of speaker and sub.

Think of the Def Tech speakers with powered subs not as a speaker and sub, but a really good 3 way speaker with great bass, and treat them as such.

As far as recommendations for subs, I have not seen many messages posted from users of Def Tech subs, so I can't really answer that question. I've never head one of their separate subs. I can say that there seems to be little reason to buy the same "brand" sub as your speakers. Pretty much any good sub will blend well with the Def Techs. I guess the best way that I can answer the question is that I just ordered an SVS sub to go with my Def Techs.

I have all of my Def Tech speakers connected with speaker wire from my receiver, and my separate sub connected with a subwoofer cable to the sub preamp out. That is the simplest way, and I have no evidence that there is a better way. I may try connecting the sub sometime using the preamp outs for the fronts and center, but it is pretty low on my list, and I really don't think it will make a significant difference.

BTW, I have my crossover set to 60Hz now, but once I get the SVS sub, I am going to play with it and see whether setting it higher works better. Remember that the speakers have a MUCH wider frequency range to deal with than the separate sub, so relieving them of some of the most difficult work (the sub-bass) makes them handle the rest even better. Do a search on "bass management" here and on the web and you'll find some good articles on the subject of large vs small settings.

-- Martin
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post #735 of 31376 Old 09-12-2006, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mschiff View Post

Andy,

It is my opinion (and that of MANY sources that I've read, including the Def Tech manual I think) that if you have a separate sub, ALL speakers regardless of their capabilities should be set to small. Then (if your receiver has the capability) you have the ability to adjust the crossover in your receiver to take best advantage of both your speakers and sub. Setting them as large eliminates this capability. That assigns the frequencies that are handled best by each type of speaker and sub.

Think of the Def Tech speakers with powered subs not as a speaker and sub, but a really good 3 way speaker with great bass, and treat them as such.
-- Martin

I can not speak for all Def Tech models, but in my manual it suggests setting the L/R speakers as large, not small. I ran EZSet with my H/K 635AVR and it detected the L/R speakers as large, and set them up that way. I have my crossover for the sub at 120Hz.
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Originally Posted by Tarheel72 View Post

I can not speak for all Def Tech models, but in my manual it suggests setting the L/R speakers as large, not small. I ran EZSet with my H/K 635AVR and it detected the L/R speakers as large, and set them up that way. I have my crossover for the sub at 120Hz.

I set all 4 of mine to large (BP10b fronts, BP8b rears.) The sub only gets the LFE channel. I like it.
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post #737 of 31376 Old 09-12-2006, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheel72 View Post

I can not speak for all Def Tech models, but in my manual it suggests setting the L/R speakers as large, not small. I ran EZSet with my H/K 635AVR and it detected the L/R speakers as large, and set them up that way. I have my crossover for the sub at 120Hz.

I would suspect that all Def Tech speakers with built-in subs should be run as large since they do have a range of at least 30-20,000 Hz and if they were run as small, it would be wasting their valued lower ends.

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #738 of 31376 Old 09-12-2006, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschiff View Post

Andy,

It is my opinion (and that of MANY sources that I've read, including the Def Tech manual I think) that if you have a separate sub, ALL speakers regardless of their capabilities should be set to small. Then (if your receiver has the capability) you have the ability to adjust the crossover in your receiver to take best advantage of both your speakers and sub. Setting them as large eliminates this capability. That assigns the frequencies that are handled best by each type of speaker and sub.

Think of the Def Tech speakers with powered subs not as a speaker and sub, but a really good 3 way speaker with great bass, and treat them as such.

As far as recommendations for subs, I have not seen many messages posted from users of Def Tech subs, so I can't really answer that question. I've never head one of their separate subs. I can say that there seems to be little reason to buy the same "brand" sub as your speakers. Pretty much any good sub will blend well with the Def Techs. I guess the best way that I can answer the question is that I just ordered an SVS sub to go with my Def Techs.

I have all of my Def Tech speakers connected with speaker wire from my receiver, and my separate sub connected with a subwoofer cable to the sub preamp out. That is the simplest way, and I have no evidence that there is a better way. I may try connecting the sub sometime using the preamp outs for the fronts and center, but it is pretty low on my list, and I really don't think it will make a significant difference.

BTW, I have my crossover set to 60Hz now, but once I get the SVS sub, I am going to play with it and see whether setting it higher works better. Remember that the speakers have a MUCH wider frequency range to deal with than the separate sub, so relieving them of some of the most difficult work (the sub-bass) makes them handle the rest even better. Do a search on "bass management" here and on the web and you'll find some good articles on the subject of large vs small settings.

-- Martin

While I FULLY agree that subs do not matter much as to the brand (i.e., it is not necessary to purchase the same brand as the rest of the speakers) -- pick the brand of your choice will work great.

But this statement concerns me: "It is my opinion (and that of MANY sources that I've read, including the Def Tech manual I think) that if you have a separate sub, ALL speakers regardless of their capabilities should be set to small. Then (if your receiver has the capability) you have the ability to adjust the crossover in your receiver to take best advantage of both your speakers and sub. Setting them as large eliminates this capability. That assigns the frequencies that are handled best by each type of speaker and sub.

Think of the Def Tech speakers with powered subs not as a speaker and sub, but a really good 3 way speaker with great bass, and treat them as such."

I read this to mean that if a person is using a tower with built-in sub that reaches down into the low 20Hz range that if there is a separate dedicated sub that the tower speaker should be set to "small," thus cutting off the lower 100 Hz or so of bass -- why not utilize that wonderful bass -- OR why purchase a full range tower if the lower end is going to be cut off -- a good bookshelf speakers would suffice?

Perhaps I misunderstood the idea here?

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #739 of 31376 Old 09-12-2006, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeSp View Post

While I FULLY agree that subs do not matter much as to the brand (i.e., it is not necessary to purchase the same brand as the rest of the speakers) -- pick the brand of your choice will work great.

But this statement concerns me: "It is my opinion (and that of MANY sources that I've read, including the Def Tech manual I think) that if you have a separate sub, ALL speakers regardless of their capabilities should be set to small. Then (if your receiver has the capability) you have the ability to adjust the crossover in your receiver to take best advantage of both your speakers and sub. Setting them as large eliminates this capability. That assigns the frequencies that are handled best by each type of speaker and sub.

Think of the Def Tech speakers with powered subs not as a speaker and sub, but a really good 3 way speaker with great bass, and treat them as such."

I read this to mean that if a person is using a tower with built-in sub that reaches down into the low 20Hz range that if there is a separate dedicated sub that the tower speaker should be set to "small," thus cutting off the lower 100 Hz or so of bass -- why not utilize that wonderful bass -- OR why purchase a full range tower if the lower end is going to be cut off -- a good bookshelf speakers would suffice?

Perhaps I misunderstood the idea here?

MikeSp

I concur. I couldn't be in more agreement. Listen to the man. He knowith what he speaks.
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post #740 of 31376 Old 09-12-2006, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeSp View Post

I would suspect that all Def Tech speakers with built-in subs should be run as large since they do have a range of at least 30-20,000 Hz and if they were run as small, it would be wasting their valued lower ends.

MikeSp

It's not wasting it at all. If you set your crossover to 60 Hz or below, everything from 60Hz up is going to the speakers, even when set on small. That is a lot of bass information, but not as much sub-bass information which may be better handled by the sub.

It doesn't cost you anything to try it both ways, then set it on the way that sounds best to YOU. I did that, and the above is what I arrived at as best in my room with my speakers and sub. YMMV.

BTW, I was mistaken about the Def Tech manual (at least for the CLR3000). It does recommend setting the speaker to large when used as a center or left and right fronts. It does NOT recommend (in fact it states it several times), connecting to the LFE output of your receiver. It says to connect to a full range preamp output if used as a center, and if there is no sub, just to connect the mains to the speaker outputs and set them as large.

The bottom line is that it is all based on personal preference and your room and receiver's capabilities. Use your ears.

-- Martin
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post #741 of 31376 Old 09-13-2006, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSp View Post

I read this to mean that if a person is using a tower with built-in sub that reaches down into the low 20Hz range that if there is a separate dedicated sub that the tower speaker should be set to "small," thus cutting off the lower 100 Hz or so of bass -- why not utilize that wonderful bass -- OR why purchase a full range tower if the lower end is going to be cut off -- a good bookshelf speakers would suffice?

Perhaps I misunderstood the idea here?

MikeSp

Either that or your bass management works very differently than mine. I am able to set the speakers to small and the crossover as low as 40Hz. That means that everything above 40Hz is being sent to the speakers, and everything below to the sub (in addition to the LFE signal which only goes to the sub). So there is PLENTY of bass still going to the speakers, and everything from 40 Hz to 80Hz is being played by the built in sub in the speakers.

Despite the fact that Def Tech claims their speakers go down to 20 Hz, I don't think they do that part of the frequency range as well as a good sub, and they roll off quite a bit as well. If you set your speakers to large, than NONE of the bass goes to the sub. Only the LFE channel (effects). So you are "wasting" that part of a good sub.

I spent about an hour last night testing large vs small, and did not change my mind about which sounds best **to me**. There is definitely MORE bass with the speakers set to large, but it is not clean, tight bass, it is boomy and tubby. Now part of that is my sub (Velodyne CHT-12), but I turned it off for part of the experiment, and I still like the sound of the Def Techs better when set to small with the crossover at 40 or 50Hz. I should stress that my tests were done with music, not HT. Despite the fact that I use this system 90% for HT, I want it to sound good for music as well. I find that when it sounds good for music, the HT is also good.

I did find that I liked the sound either way with only the front mains set to large, but in the end, I think small won out.

BTW, "small" is really a misnomer. It should be "activate bass management", and large should be "deactivate bass management". With small, you can adjust the system as you like, with large, you have no control over the crossover (except to manually adjust the levels on the speakers).

-- Martin
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post #742 of 31376 Old 09-13-2006, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschiff View Post

BTW, "small" is really a misnomer. It should be "activate bass management", and large should be "deactivate bass management". With small, you can adjust the system as you like, with large, you have no control over the crossover (except to manually adjust the levels on the speakers).

-- Martin

OK -- Your explanation is very clear and compelling since I have never looked at speakers run as "small" in that light before -- you've convinced me to do some experimentation...

MikeSp

Pioneer Elite Kuro, McIntosh amplifiers -- MC501 monos (3) and MC352's (2), McIntosh MX150 pre-pro; Oppo 83SE; speakers -- Aerial Acoustics Model 9's for mains and CC5 for center, Def Tech BPVX/P's and BPVX's for surrounds and JL F113's (2) for subs; Roku 3; PS3; Wiii; Tivos; and Monster HTPS...
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post #743 of 31376 Old 09-13-2006, 08:31 AM
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Good stuff Martin and Mike, I'll be curious to hear about your results Mike when you test out the "small" settings. By the way Martin, what model are the front speakers in your set up?
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post #744 of 31376 Old 09-13-2006, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike C View Post

I have had this Def Tech setup for about 4 years and still going strong...

2- BP2002
1- C/L/R2002
4- BPX

All Powered by A Denon AVR5800, Also the low end is supplumented with 2 ButtKickers.

Lately I have been thinking about a redesign for my HT and one particular question comes to mind after researching:

When the front speakers are closer than 3.5 feet towards the front wall you are supposed to use sound dampening on the wall directly behind the speaker to stop sound reflection. This sounds like it defeats the purpose of the rear driver array? Or?

Thanks
Mike

I thought that someone would have chimed in on this by now. I'm far from an expert, but I will give my opinion for what it's worth. Sound treatment behind bipolar speakers would be counter productive. The benefit of front and rear firing speakers is the wider soundfield that is produced. Dampening would kill that dispersment. But then again, if you develop problems with troblesome soundwaves that have to be tamed, then you have no choice but to experiment and try it. Or purchace front firing speakers, like in the Def. Tech. PM series. I guess your won't know for sure until after you rearrange everything and listen to the new set up. If you do, in the end, have to dampen the sound of a bipolar speaker. I for one, would be interested in your opinion of the results.
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post #745 of 31376 Old 09-13-2006, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elisha Ingram View Post

I thought that someone would have chimed in on this by now. I'm far from an expert, but I will give my opinion for what it's worth. Sound treatment behind bipolar speakers would be counter productive. The benefit of front and rear firing speakers is the wider soundfield that is produced. Dampening would kill that dispersment. But then again, if you develop problems with troblesome soundwaves that have to be tamed, then you have no choice but to experiment and try it. Or purchace front firing speakers, like in the Def. Tech. PM series. I guess your won't know for sure until after you rearrange everything and listen to the new set up. If you do, in the end, have to dampen the sound of a bipolar speaker. I for one, would be interested in your opinion of the results.

I actually use room treatment in the front corners of my soundstage but not directly behind my 7000s. For my room, it works well.

Adz
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post #746 of 31376 Old 09-15-2006, 09:16 AM
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This Is In Response To Mike Sp

I Am In Total Agreement With You Regarding Your Views On Towers With Built In Subs. I Am Currently Running The Following 7.1 System: 7004 Towers, Supercube Ii, 2300 Clr And 2 Pairs Of Bp2x In A Dedicated Hometheater Room. Had Been Playing Around With Speaker Distance, Spl Readings, Bla, Bla, Bla, For The First 6 Months. It Wasnt Till I Actuall Set My Towers To "small" And Adjusted My Cutoff Lower To 60hz That I Finally Had The Sound I Knew My System Was Capable Of.

I Am 80/20 Ht To Music And Found That After This Final Calibration My Soundstage, Response, Imaging, Etc. Were Much Better. More Important To Me Was Overall Dialogue From My Center. Clarity Increase Was 200%. Def Tech Rules!!!
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post #747 of 31376 Old 09-15-2006, 10:02 AM
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I Am Curios To See If Any Def Tech Owners Set Their Center Speaker Vertically. I Have A Clr2300 And Have Done So Since My Initial Set Up. To Me The Driver Alignment In Combination With My 7004's Gives Me A Much Better Sound Stage For My Entire Seating Area Than When It Is Set Horizontally. ANY SIMILAR STORIES OUT THERE??
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post #748 of 31376 Old 09-15-2006, 10:26 AM
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I see many of you have the 7004's! Would you perfer the 7004's over the 7006's? My bedroom is only 11x14. I am upgrading from studio monitor 450's.

- Garrett
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post #749 of 31376 Old 09-15-2006, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMZIGON View Post

This Is In Response To Mike Sp

I Am In Total Agreement With You Regarding Your Views On Towers With Built In Subs. I Am Currently Running The Following 7.1 System: 7004 Towers, Supercube Ii, 2300 Clr And 2 Pairs Of Bp2x In A Dedicated Hometheater Room. Had Been Playing Around With Speaker Distance, Spl Readings, Bla, Bla, Bla, For The First 6 Months. It Wasnt Till I Actuall Set My Towers To "small" And Adjusted My Cutoff Lower To 60hz That I Finally Had The Sound I Knew My System Was Capable Of.

I Am 80/20 Ht To Music And Found That After This Final Calibration My Soundstage, Response, Imaging, Etc. Were Much Better. More Important To Me Was Overall Dialogue From My Center. Clarity Increase Was 200%. Def Tech Rules!!!


Did you connect the tower subs to LFE, or are you LFE to a dedicated sub?

lee
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post #750 of 31376 Old 09-15-2006, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeSp View Post

OK -- Your explanation is very clear and compelling since I have never looked at speakers run as "small" in that light before -- you've convinced me to do some experimentation...

MikeSp


In my opinion and speaking from a ton of experience as an installer for Def Tech, Large is the preferred way to go for most. All the crossover points in the powered towers between the subwoofer and the midranges are 80hz. If you set to small and the x-over to 60 or even 50 Hz, that is simply negating a significant part of the benefits of the supercubes which represents a majority of the cost in the 7000 series/powered towers. If that's what one prefers, then it makes more sense to buy the non-powered towers flanked on both sides by a good subwoofer. I've experimented with that as well, and it just doesn't compare, at least in HT, to the powered towers.

Adz
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