Definitive Owners Thread - Page 352 - AVS Forum
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post #10531 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

where do you keep your crossover setting ?

120hz is the upper limit of the LFE channel which is a digital brick-wall

by spec, the LFE channel also goes down to 3hz and the only way to do that is with a massive array of sealed subs or an IB (which is also a sealed alignment) or a rotary sub

Knowing that there's the possibility that content can go up to 120hz on the LFE channel I keep my low pass filter set to 120hz.
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post #10532 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 10:50 AM
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NO more reading just give an answer. You have thrown a new sub into the mix the av123 mfw-15. I guess i have all the info I just need to make a decision. More opinions would be good too.

Been reading about the things I need to integrate this sub into my system(something I've never done). Umm Behringer, Mic, REW, ect. Can someone give me a list of the things I need. Thanks

Cliff
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post #10533 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 11:37 AM
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[quote=cliff257;15665617]NO more reading just give an answer. You have thrown a new sub into the mix the av123 mfw-15. I guess i have all the info I just need to make a decision. More opinions would be good too.

I have the same speakers as you with 2 bp20's for rears. My ht is in a medium size basement, not sure of the exact sf. The theater area is 14.5 x 28with 7.5' ceiling. It is open to aditional sf. I have a earthquake supernova mkIV-10 up front and an svs 25-31pci 3' behind the main listening seats. For my expectations, I have more then enough lf output in the room. I am not currently looking to upgrade my lf. That may change some day. If I could get a trinity for 1700, I would have to consider it. The mfw-15 are very tempting but have had some qc issues with the amps. svs makes many good subs, i would not hesitate to go with them. The epik knights look good too. If I had no subs and were in the same boat as you, I don't know what I'd get. Probably would try the knights if they had a good return policy.

Here is a link if you are curious....

http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee316/speakerman_ht/

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post #10534 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 11:41 AM
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[quote=g_bartman;15666134]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff257 View Post

NO more reading just give an answer. You have thrown a new sub into the mix the av123 mfw-15. I guess i have all the info I just need to make a decision. More opinions would be good too.

I have the same speakers as you with 2 bp20's for rears. My ht is in a medium size basement, not sure of the exact sf. The theater area is 14.5 x 28with 7.5' ceiling. It is open to aditional sf. I have a earthquake supernova mkIV-10 up front and an svs 25-31pci 3' behind the main listening seats. For my expectations, I have more then enough lf output in the room. I am not currently looking to upgrade my lf for now. That may change some day. If I could get a trinity for 1700, I would have to consider it. The mfw-15 are very tempting but have had some qc issues with the amps. svs makes many good subs, i would not hesitate to go with them. The epik knights look good too. If I had no subs and were in the same boat as you, I don't know what I'd get. Probably would try the knights if they had a good return policy.

I hear Epik conquest is the way to go. After reading some posts in the subwoofer forum, I am saving up to buy one of those. I believe it is cheaper than the trinity (after discount) and can hit low frequencies with ease.
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post #10535 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 11:46 AM
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[quote=mrted46;15666186]
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post


I hear Epik conquest is the way to go. After reading some posts in the subwoofer forum, I am saving up to buy one of those. I believe it is cheaper than the trinity (after discount) and can hit low frequencies with ease.

Yeah, they are suposed to be unbelieveable. I suggested the knights (a pair) because he said the conquest is too big in a earlier post.

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post #10536 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 12:10 PM
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i heard Epik isn't currently taking any orders but you should check with them directly if you can

i also hear the av-123 sub has a lot of issues and some very unhappy customers (to be fair, they also have a lot of happy customers as well)

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post #10537 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff257 View Post

NO more reading just give an answer. You have thrown a new sub into the mix the av123 mfw-15. I guess i have all the info I just need to make a decision. More opinions would be good too.

Been reading about the things I need to integrate this sub into my system(something I've never done). Umm Behringer, Mic, REW, ect. Can someone give me a list of the things I need. Thanks

Cliff

I haven't seen you mention the SC Reference. Any particular reason for excluding it? I have almost exactly the same setup as you, and I added a Ref a few months ago. It made a huge difference and I really love it. (Got it open box for $900.)
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post #10538 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff257 View Post

...Been reading about the things I need to integrate this sub into my system(something I've never done). Umm Behringer, Mic, REW, ect...

Since you don't seem to be on a tight budget, I'd recommend you consider a Velodyne SMS-1 with whatever sub you choose. It does a wonderful job of easing integration as well as helping alleviate room problems. And it's much easier to use than some of the other solutions mentioned.
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post #10539 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 01:48 PM
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Not that money is no issue but i dont believe I will spend the money on the sms-1 when I hear avia will do fine or the other I mentioned for only $250 as a kit.

Well when otk says he would get a trinity over 2 ref's I nulled that out. I've heard an f112 but want f113 so I can speak on it. But have only heard good things about the trinity. And dual pb13 for the price of those other two is really nice. Havent looked at epik but dont wont the huge conquest and the others are quite large too. The Knights have the same cab. as the castle so i suppose the castle would be a close comparison.

Bottom line love my def tech would like to buy the trinity even at msrp so thats my budget. If i could get the trinity for 2200 or less that means i would have to buy two. Would that be overkill?
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post #10540 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cliff257 View Post

Bottom line love my def tech would like to buy the trinity even at msrp so thats my budget. If i could get the trinity for 2200 or less that means i would have to buy two. Would that be overkill?

Some people believe there's no such thing as too much bass. I'm not one of them. I've heard setups with big, overblown bass that the owner thought was "awesome" and it just sounds awful to me. I find that ONE Reference can sometimes be almost overwhelming- movies like The Dark Knight and The Hulk can literally pound you in the chest and shake the foundation.
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post #10541 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cliff257 View Post

Not that money is no issue but i dont believe I will spend the money on the sms-1 when I hear avia will do fine or the other I mentioned for only $250 as a kit.

Well when otk says he would get a trinity over 2 ref's I nulled that out. I've heard an f112 but want f113 so I can speak on it. But have only heard good things about the trinity. And dual pb13 for the price of those other two is really nice. Havent looked at epik but dont wont the huge conquest and the others are quite large too. The Knights have the same cab. as the castle so i suppose the castle would be a close comparison.

Bottom line love my def tech would like to buy the trinity even at msrp so thats my budget. If i could get the trinity for 2200 or less that means i would have to buy two. Would that be overkill?

Buying duals would not be considered overkill with the added benefits they bring to the room, but maybe not necessary with the quality of subs you're considering. If this came down to a two party election, I believe the favorites would have to be the Trinity and the PB13Ultra. Granted, the Fathoms have been the torch bearers in the past, but todays sub manufacturers produce subs quite comparable in performance and let's not forget... you wouldn't want to be missing the lows. An Epik sub woofer would be in consideration due to it's price versus performance, but your ship date would more likely be found in the Book of Revelations. The Trinity and Ultra would give you what I believe you're looking for and whichever one you had, you would never ever consider for a moment if you made the right decision. The added feature of optional tuning including seal mode makes the Ultra very versatile.

'It's not what you don't know that hurts you; It's what you know, that just ain't so.'
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post #10542 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 03:11 PM
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It's too bad Epik is so backlogged.........my Epik Castle works very well with my Mythos system. I was lucky that I had the space to build it into the wall under the stairs so it wouldn't impede on our living space. Great thunderous yet articulate sub.
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post #10543 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 04:09 PM
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i think what people mean when they say you can never have too much sub is headroom and also, the more subs you have in more locations, the smoother the response will be in room

you can have 100 subs, as long as each channel and each frequency is calibrated to the same level, it will sound awesome. another thing is the more subs you have, the less each driver has to work which means less distortion at higher levels

also, with sealed subs, the more you add, the lower you can EQ them

1 or 2 subs is all most people will need in most rooms. i've been watching a lot of movies lately with just my towers and my extra subs turned off and i'm blown away by what two 15 year old towers can do with no extra subs helping out

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post #10544 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 04:44 PM
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Yep all i got are the sc's in the towers and i thought that was what bass was. Did some shopping heard a couple of custom systems, a 600w yamaha and a jl f112. After that I realize I dont know what low bass is for home audio.
I'm in search for that low bass and have done a lot of reading and see that multiple subs in multiple location is best. 2 now for HT and 2 later for stereo, I believe that will do it. The 2 for stereo will be the JL's. So now I'm thinking 2 ref's or 2 pb13? I believe 2 trinity's will be overkill? Thanks for all the feedback, keep going!
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post #10545 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff257 View Post

Yep all i got are the sc's in the towers and i thought that was what bass was. Did some shopping heard a couple of custom systems, a 600w yamaha and a jl f112. After that I realize I dont know what low bass is for home audio.
I'm in search for that low bass and have done a lot of reading and see that multiple subs in multiple location is best. 2 now for HT and 2 later for stereo, I believe that will do it. The 2 for stereo will be the JL's. So now I'm thinking 2 ref's or 2 pb13? I believe 2 trinity's will be overkill? Thanks for all the feedback, keep going!

i was thinking of that also, dual trinitys for HT and dual JL's for music

or just do this. go to your JL dealer and see what kind of deal you can get on dual JL F212's and just be done with it

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post #10546 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff257 View Post

Not that money is no issue but i dont believe I will spend the money on the sms-1 when I hear avia will do fine or the other I mentioned for only $250 as a kit.

Well when otk says he would get a trinity over 2 ref's I nulled that out. I've heard an f112 but want f113 so I can speak on it. But have only heard good things about the trinity. And dual pb13 for the price of those other two is really nice. Havent looked at epik but dont wont the huge conquest and the others are quite large too. The Knights have the same cab. as the castle so i suppose the castle would be a close comparison.

Bottom line love my def tech would like to buy the trinity even at msrp so thats my budget. If i could get the trinity for 2200 or less that means i would have to buy two. Would that be overkill?



cliff, believe me brother, i feel your pain...

first tho, i've never heard either fathom sub or the pb13, but geez, i have read nothing but praise, HIGH praise for any of those three subs...i don't think the word "unhappy" would come into play with picking any of those...

i do, however, own two trinity subs, and i can't give a higher recommendation than i would give the trinity. it goes deep, it hits hard and has unbelievable output.

otk has assembled craigsubs thoughts on the trinity, i suggest you give that a read, as well as his comments on the other subs you're considering...


as for two being overkill...well, it may be, it just depends what you're after. like otk said, adding another gives you more headroom (less distortion) and the ability to smooth your room response (altho i do use an sms-1 to help me, fantastic tool)...tho adding a second is not as dramatic as adding the first, i think, as with any sub, once you experience two, it's tough to go back to one...
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post #10547 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 05:26 PM
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Ha on the same page!!! Really I would like 4 f113 but im gonna go with def tech for the HT, cant go wrong with that I believe so I guess the question is 2 ref's or 2 trinity's.

I can get a great deal on the JL's but still not 30% the msrp of the trinity or ref's. I'm considering ref's to save money and get the sms-1 or the a.r.o. any opinions??
Is two trinity's overkill?
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post #10548 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 05:46 PM
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when you add a 2nd sub and stack them on top of each other or side by side, you gain no more than 6db extra output by adding the 2nd sub

when you add a 2nd sub and place them apart from each other like one on each side of your room, you'll get an average of 3 extra db of output depending on room size and acoustics. sometimes you'll get a little more than 3db sometimes a little less depending on many variables but the important part of adding a 2nd sub is the smoothing of peaks and dips in frequencies response

adding the first trinity will let you know the beast has arrived. adding a 2nd will smooth him out a bit and give him some extra bite when needed

not only does the trinity go louder than the reference but it also goes a tad lower

the trinity is flat to 16hz +/-3db @ 1 meter no wall reflections but mic was on the floor so there were some floor reflections

the reference is close @ 18hz +/-3db @ 1 meter no wall reflections but mic was on the floor so there were some floor reflections

those are def tech measurements from chet at def tech

also cliff, have you considered this system ?

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls15quaddrive.html

$3999 for 4 of HSU brand new sealed 15" subs

i haven't heard them yet but the new owners seem to love them (even the singles and duals)

here's another ID company who sells sealed subs that i hear a lot of good things about

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html

those are also sold through Ascend Acoustics

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages.../subintro.html


lots of choices

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post #10549 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff257 View Post

Ha on the same page!!! Really I would like 4 f113 but im gonna go with def tech for the HT, cant go wrong with that I believe so I guess the question is 2 ref's or 2 trinity's.

I can get a great deal on the JL's but still not 30% the msrp of the trinity or ref's. I'm considering ref's to save money and get the sms-1 or the a.r.o. any opinions??
Is two trinity's overkill?


...read post above yours about trinity overkill

well, i also have two references, and while a reference on each side of the room is a sweet setup, you will notice the diff with two trinity's...

i think def tech's raising the price of the reference to 1899.00 makes it a little less attractive as an option...
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post #10550 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 06:16 PM
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lefthandluke, your system must rock

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
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post #10551 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

lefthandluke, your system must rock


always tweaking otk, always tweaking...

just ordered a hsu mbm-12...can't wait to play around with that!!

got 30 days to see if i can reach nirvana...
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post #10552 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post

always tweaking otk, always tweaking...

just ordered a hsu mbm-12...can't wait to play around with that!!

got 30 days to see if i can reach nirvana...

just when i thought i couldn't get even more jealous



All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
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post #10553 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

just when i thought i couldn't get even more jealous




um, wait a minute here...

you've got eleven 15" sealed subs

whose the jealous one...?
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post #10554 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 08:01 PM
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just because we are on the topic of ridiculous sub setups, I thought I'd link this one for you all to drool over. http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product/thor/ It's over 400 pounds!!

otk, and lefthandluke, question for you. Do you guys ever just crank some death metal up to eleven and see how long you can keep air in your lungs?

Have you found the brown note?
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post #10555 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inhertenderlips View Post

just because we are on the topic of ridiculous sub setups, I thought I'd link this one for you all to drool over. http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product/thor/ It's over 400 pounds!!

otk, and lefthandluke, question for you. Do you guys ever just crank some death metal up to eleven and see how long you can keep air in your lungs?

Have you found the brown note?


59" x 25" x 20", 412 lbs...relatively compact?...that thing sounds like a monster!


not a big death metal fan...sepultura...six feet under...pantera, my son luv's 'em

ac/dc...metallica...kid rock...green day...pixies, oh yeah, i've been known to crank those on occasion
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post #10556 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 08:33 PM
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Just some thoughts on my decision making process;
Subs considered; Started off at the SVS PC12 NSD at $550 on sale.
I think that sub would have been just fine. But....
The mind started going; "If your going to do this and never ask what if... Then get a Big Boy and be done with it".

Enter the realm of Super Subs;
Epik Conquest
SVS PBandC 13 Ultras
Def Tech Trinity
HSU 15
and others.

After researching and agonizing over this I ended up with the Trinity for these reasons;
1. I actually could audition it, and it sounded killer. There is something to be said about brick and mortar stores. Your going to pay a bit more but the product is a given. And if there are problems you know where to go.
2. I got it for a very good price. An ID comparable price. Look around, call dealers, some are hungry, some arent. You never know till you ask.
3. The craigsub reviews, otk and others here at AVS advice, and other professionals reviews such as this;
http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-lo...subwoofer.html
all said the Trinity is a very special speaker.
4. Resale. If I ever completely loose my mind and want to upgrade, Def Tech has a well earned and respected brand name which translates into holding its value. I love my new hobby but it has to make financial sense. Yeah... right...

In all honesty I've never heard the rest, just read the specs and I'm sure they are all great. Its just that the Trinity made the most sense to me.
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post #10557 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 08:44 PM
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And if you do get a Trinity please post a note here;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1113395

Other subs have their own threads like the SVS 13's and Epik ( the only one available these days is the Conquest, if that.)

This very special sub deserves some praise. Hope you feel the same way.
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post #10558 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 08:47 PM
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lightguy...

we've all been there...after agonizing over countless details, you finally pulled the trigger

now you've got the need to validate your purchase...

trust me when i say "you done good"
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post #10559 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post

lightguy...

we've all been there...after agonizing over countless details, you finally pulled the trigger

now you've got the need to validate your purchase...

trust me when i say "you done good"

You have no idea what my AVS receiver purchasing process was like. Sub was a piece of cake
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post #10560 of 31385 Old 01-27-2009, 09:20 PM
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AVR was easy for me cause i always had a dream since the first day I bought my def tech in the 90's. My dealer had them powering my old setup and i knew I had to have it. I finally got it now I inspire to hear some low low bass!! You guys have helped so much but will damage the wallet!!

Gimme the low down on the trinity versus the ref's if you guys could. Going to demo a pair this weekend.
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