Definitive Owners Thread - Page 785 - AVS Forum
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post #23521 of 31351 Old 05-24-2011, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Shadow Jack View Post

So a while back I asked for input on whether I should get a second Trinity sub to complement my 8080 system. Got some good advice. Thanks much. Since I was fortunate enough to get a nice discount from baja in the raffle, I've decided to go for Trinity number two. Anybody else rockin' two (or more!) Trinities?

Wow lol, what kinda floor will you have them on? Let us know how it works out!
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post #23522 of 31351 Old 05-24-2011, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace2377 View Post

Looking at upgrading my first setup, Energy Take Classics, and going with a Def Tech setup. I'm looking at starting with BP20 or BP30 towers. My question is, the BP30's seem very highly regarded, but aren't the BP20's basically the same thing with the newer driver? It seems the 20's can be had for much less, is there really THAT much difference in sound? Also, if so, could a person replace the 20 tweeters with the newer 30 tweeters and basically have 30's?

Thank you for any input!
Andy

I have the 20's as rear surrounds. They work well along with the other 5 channels that all use the newer tweeters. Yu can't just change out the tweeters because the 30's use a different crossover

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post #23523 of 31351 Old 05-24-2011, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Jack View Post

So a while back I asked for input on whether I should get a second Trinity sub to complement my 8080 system. Got some good advice. Thanks much. Since I was fortunate enough to get a nice discount from baja in the raffle, I've decided to go for Trinity number two. Anybody else rockin' two (or more!) Trinities?

I also got a coupon and am considering (in a few months) another Trinity. Please keep us posted if/when you go for number two and your impressions.
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post #23524 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Jack View Post

So a while back I asked for input on whether I should get a second Trinity sub to complement my 8080 system. Got some good advice. Thanks much. Since I was fortunate enough to get a nice discount from baja in the raffle, I've decided to go for Trinity number two. Anybody else rockin' two (or more!) Trinities?



Very nice, I have been thinking about this option as well... Still very torn in breaking down and getting a Submersive HP (Gloss Blk). This way I can do an A/B in my room and determine which to keep or keep both or move the Trinity out and make it a sealed pair. I am curious to know which would sound better in my environment.
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post #23525 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

I have the 20's as rear surrounds. They work well along with the other 5 channels that all use the newer tweeters. Yu can't just change out the tweeters because the 30's use a different crossover

I have often wondered about this am hoping we might take this discussion a bit deeper. Not knowing any facts and hypothesizing based on logic I would think that since the 20's and 30's have the same size, position, and number of mids that they would need to begin rolling off at the same gradient and at the same point to avoid a dip in sound production. So it at least would seem that though the crossovers are for different model speakers the crossover characteristics between the mids and tweeters should be practically, if not totally, identical. The difference might only come from the physical differences between the tweeter styles and there respective ability to reproduce sound slightly differently though the frequencies they would be receiving would be the same.

Again, I am just playing the "devil's advocate" and making a best guess based on what I know. Do we know for sure whether or not the bp20 and 30 crossovers send different frequencies to their tweeters?
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post #23526 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 06:31 AM
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chet at def tech has already confirmed that the crossovers are different but he did not specify in what ways. it could be crossover points, crossover slopes or both. ohms could also come into play and who knows what else goes into designing a loudspeaker system that's designed to have all it's parts work in a perfect harmony

i guess one could try it, then take measurements to see what the response looks like before and after

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post #23527 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 11:11 AM
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Hello guys,

I was able to score a pair of demo 8040St at my local BB for a steal. Now looking to get a center channel for the system. Ideally I would love to get the 8040CS however I was wondering if the ProCinema 2000 would cut it?

Thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.

BTW I have a Denon 991 powering the system.
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post #23528 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unhooked79 View Post

Hello guys,

I was able to score a pair of demo 8040St at my local BB for a steal. Now looking to get a center channel for the system. Ideally I would love to get the 8040CS however I was wondering if the ProCinema 2000 would cut it?

Thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.

BTW I have a Denon 991 powering the system.

I would say yes....I recently bought a pair of 8060st towers and am using a pro center 1000 and my setup sounds awesome....like you I wanted the 8060 center too match but didn't want too pay another 700 dollars for it....lol...even though I might down the road....but yea you should be happy with the 2000 center....also go give it a listen if you can....you might even like the pro center 1000....for me I was very impressed by it.

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post #23529 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace2377 View Post

Looking at upgrading my first setup, Energy Take Classics, and going with a Def Tech setup. I'm looking at starting with BP20 or BP30 towers. My question is, the BP30's seem very highly regarded, but aren't the BP20's basically the same thing with the newer tweeter? It seems the 20's can be had for much less, is there really THAT much difference in sound? Also, if so, could a person replace the 20 tweeters with the newer 30 tweeters and basically have 30's?

Thank you for any input!
Andy

I had sent an email off to Chet this morning in regards to this issue as I have been interested in the information as well and this is his reply:

Thanks for your most recent email to Definitive Technology. When both of these tower were originally designed, our engineering department designed crossover networks to perfectly blend the exact tweeters and 6.5 drivers used in these towers together . Ultimately, you could install our aluminum dome tweeters into the BP20s (without changing the crossover network) and have an acceptable sounding speaker. You would not, however, have a perfect blend between the aluminum dome tweeters and the 6.5 bass/midrange drivers. You'd still hear a bit more clarity and detail produced by the aluminum dome tweeter, but you wouldn't have the perfect blend that a BP30 would haveThe crossovers used in the BP20s and BP30s are different enough to produce a sonic difference in how the drivers and tweeters integrate with each other.



If you'd like, I could probably track down the schematics for the crossovers used in the BP20s and BP30s and email them to you

PS. Complete BP20 and BP30 crossover networks are no longer available from Definitive Technology


Seems pretty "definitive!" So there are minor differences but whether or not a bp20 sounds better with its original tweeter or with the newer tweeter on the wrong crossover is probably up to the listener.
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post #23530 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

I would say yes....I recently bought a pair of 8060st towers and am using a pro center 1000 and my setup sounds awesome....like you I wanted the 8060 center too match but didn't want too pay another 700 dollars for it....lol...even though I might down the road....but yea you should be happy with the 2000 center....also go give it a listen if you can....you might even like the pro center 1000....for me I was very impressed by it.

Awesome, Baja has the PC2000 for $170 Refurb on special so I may jump on that
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post #23531 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Unhooked79 View Post

Awesome, Baja has the PC2000 for $170 Refurb on special so I may jump on that

Sounds like a great deal....after you get it and hook it up come back and let us all know your thoughts on it...:-)

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post #23532 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unhooked79 View Post

Awesome, Baja has the PC2000 for $170 Refurb on special so I may jump on that

I haven't tried the new towers, but the PC1000 was completely overwhelmed by my studio monitors. I almost immediately upgraded to the CLR2002. It made a massive difference to me. You may want to get a few other opinions before getting the PC2000
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post #23533 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace2377 View Post

Looking at upgrading my first setup, Energy Take Classics, and going with a Def Tech setup. I'm looking at starting with BP20 or BP30 towers. My question is, the BP30's seem very highly regarded, but aren't the BP20's basically the same thing with the newer tweeter? It seems the 20's can be had for much less, is there really THAT much difference in sound? Also, if so, could a person replace the 20 tweeters with the newer 30 tweeters and basically have 30's?

Thank you for any input!
Andy

Adding into what others have stated about the different crossovers. Chet did mention to me using BPVX crossovers will work in either putting together you own BP30 or replacing the BP20 crossover.
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post #23534 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 01:54 PM
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Need help upgrading mains!

My current setup consists of Mythos 5(LR), Procenter 1000, Promonitor 2000(rears), and SVS pc12 plus with Pio vsx 21 driving all in a 20x20 living room.
I have been happy with this setup so far, but there has always been a thought of upgrading especially the mains.
I have been looking a lot these days for bp 700x series, but cost is a negative factor at the moment.
Would I find any improvement at all if I go with BP8Bs, replacing mythos 5s?
and, how about using mythos 5s as side surrounds along with bp8b fronts? Would that be too much of mix and match in driver size?

Thanks in advance for any input..
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post #23535 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Jack View Post

So a while back I asked for input on whether I should get a second Trinity sub to complement my 8080 system. Got some good advice. Thanks much. Since I was fortunate enough to get a nice discount from baja in the raffle, I've decided to go for Trinity number two. Anybody else rockin' two (or more!) Trinities?

I'm running dual Trinities and also have a Reference, but the Reference currently isn't connected. I don't know if I should also let it handle LFE or use it for surround bass. The 2nd Trinity add 4-6db and really helped smooth out the bass response of my room.

My system consists of BP30s, CLR3000, a pair of BPVX, and BPX powered by Emotiva XP2/XPA5 amps. The weakest part of my system is probably a 11 year old Pioneer Elite receiver as it only support global crossover setting of 80hz and higher. Hopefully I will be able to find a used Integra DTR or DHC 80.2 for a good price when the 80.3 come out.
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post #23536 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Votinh View Post

I'm running dual Trinities and also have a Reference, but the Reference currently isn't connected. I don't know if I should also let it handle LFE or use it for surround bass. The 2nd Trinity add 4-6db and really help smooth out the bass response of my room.

My system consists of BP30s, CLR3000, a pair of BPVX, and BPX powered by Emotiva XP2/XPA5 amps. The weakest part of my system is probably a 11 year old Pioneer Elite receiver as it only support global crossover setting of 80hz and higher. Hopefully I will be able to find a used Integra DTR or DHC 80.2 for a good price when the 80.3 come out.

Wow, that must sound incredible! Very Nice!
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post #23537 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 05:22 PM
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How do you all have your bipolar towers set up?
How far from the back wall are they, did you use the spikes, and what angle do you have them toed in?
Thanks for any replies.
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post #23538 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milesed View Post

How do you all have your bipolar towers set up?
How far from the back wall are they, did you use the spikes, and what angle do you have them toed in?
Thanks for any replies.

- Approximately 14-18 inches out from wall.
- Spikes are utilized, plush carpet over thick pad on concrete.
- Toed in approximately 20 degrees.

Cheers

Love DIY
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post #23539 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 06:29 PM
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I am purchasing the following system:

8080ST - Fronts
8080ST- Rears
8080HD - Center

I will be running the 8080ST full range for the front and rears (no dedicated sub). A couple of questions:

1. DT recommend using an RCA cable with an Y-splitter sent to each LFE. If you use two dedicated RCAs to each would you not have the advantage of basically stereo, left and right subs? Am I missing something?

2. Running the 8080STs (floor standing speakers) as rears I am wondering about the best place to put them. My room is 14 X 22 with 8ft ceilings. THX recommends 90 - 110 degrees and two feet about the listener. Dolby digital recommends the same. So I am thinking of starting them out slight behind the couch. Being floor standers should I elevate them 2 feet about my seated listening position using a speaker platform? Or should I keep them on the floor? My listening will be 70% movies / 30% music.

Anyone know of floorstanding stands?

Thanks,

-Brian

Brian R. Smith
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post #23540 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 06:49 PM
 
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Sideofpotatos and SteveK2 you both have pm's from me per the bp30's you were inquiring about.
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post #23541 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milesed View Post

How do you all have your bipolar towers set up?
How far from the back wall are they, did you use the spikes, and what angle do you have them toed in?
Thanks for any replies.

30" off the wall, toed in about 18 degrees, spiked with a slight up tilt.

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post #23542 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

chet at def tech has already confirmed that the crossovers are different but he did not specify in what ways. it could be crossover points, crossover slopes or both. ohms could also come into play and who knows what else goes into designing a loudspeaker system that's designed to have all it's parts work in a perfect harmony

i guess one could try it, then take measurements to see what the response looks like before and after


The other thing I would have to question would be the Cabinet size. Are they identical to Cubic inches of space. If not this would be just one reason why the Crossovers would need to be different due to the tuning of the cabinet. Just a thought, because I don't know if they are built identical internally as well.
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post #23543 of 31351 Old 05-25-2011, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milesed View Post

How do you all have your bipolar towers set up?
How far from the back wall are they, did you use the spikes, and what angle do you have them toed in?
Thanks for any replies.

I was lucky enough, when I bought my 8080STs, to have the Def Tech Rep in the store. The rep recommended using the plastic cap on top of the speaker as your reference for the correct distance from the back wall.
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post #23544 of 31351 Old 05-26-2011, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jstenuf View Post

I was lucky enough, when I bought my 8080STs, to have the Def Tech Rep in the store. The rep recommended using the plastic cap on top of the speaker as your reference for the correct distance from the back wall.

Interesting, so about 16-18 inches.

I found in my room that anything more than 18 inches did not seam to change. And I'll have to admit that didn't hurt my feelings due to not wanting them too far into the room...


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post #23545 of 31351 Old 05-26-2011, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Votinh View Post
I'm running dual Trinities and also have a Reference, but the Reference currently isn't connected. I don't know if I should also let it handle LFE or use it for surround bass. The 2nd Trinity add 4-6db and really help smooth out the bass response of my room.

My system consists of BP30s, CLR3000, a pair of BPVX, and BPX powered by Emotiva XP2/XPA5 amps. The weakest part of my system is probably a 11 year old Pioneer Elite receiver as it only support global crossover setting of 80hz and higher. Hopefully I will be able to find a used Integra DTR or DHC 80.2 for a good price when the 80.3 come out.
Glad to hear the second Trinity made a nice, noticeable difference for you, Votinh. Killer system you've got there. My second Trinity has been ordered and should be here early next week. I'll report back with the changes. Can't wait.
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post #23546 of 31351 Old 05-27-2011, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

I am purchasing the following system:

8080ST - Fronts
8080ST- Rears
8080HD - Center

I will be running the 8080ST full range for the front and rears (no dedicated sub). A couple of questions:

1. DT recommend using an RCA cable with an Y-splitter sent to each LFE. If you use two dedicated RCAs to each would you not have the advantage of basically stereo, left and right subs? Am I missing something?

2. Running the 8080STs (floor standing speakers) as rears I am wondering about the best place to put them. My room is 14 X 22 with 8ft ceilings. THX recommends 90 - 110 degrees and two feet about the listener. Dolby digital recommends the same. So I am thinking of starting them out slight behind the couch. Being floor standers should I elevate them 2 feet about my seated listening position using a speaker platform? Or should I keep them on the floor? My listening will be 70% movies / 30% music.

Anyone know of floorstanding stands?

Thanks,

-Brian

No takers?

Brian R. Smith
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post #23547 of 31351 Old 05-27-2011, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

No takers?

No need for platforms under the rear speakers. Mine are on the floor and work well there. I tried running RCA to the of in lf on my front towers but did not like the result. Ymmv

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post #23548 of 31351 Old 05-27-2011, 04:17 AM
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I bought some 9x11x1 in. bricks from Home Depot and had layered them by 3s, covered them with black cloths.. To raise them for rears.. Of course their footprint got (wider) bigger, my choice but you decide.. It was cheaper than buying amp stands, which was my other option.
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post #23549 of 31351 Old 05-27-2011, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

No takers?

it all depends on your personal taste

when i ran bp10s as my surrounds back in the mid 90s i put them up on 12" stands

i now use my bp2000s & bp30s on the floor because they are tall enough for my needs and sound great there

try the 8080s out on the floor then try them lifted a bit and see what gives you the best effect

as far as RCA's, unless you're going to run them to all 4 towers, don't even bother with them, just run speaker wire to all your towers, go into your receiver, set subwoofer to "none" and your 8080's to "large"

the center you might want to set to "small" 60hz but you can also experiment with 40hz & 80hz. unless you're going to be blasting "blow up the earth" type movies at full reference levels, you could even try running it large

i have almost the same size room that you have by the way

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post #23550 of 31351 Old 05-27-2011, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
1. DT recommend using an RCA cable with an Y-splitter sent to each LFE. If you use two dedicated RCAs to each would you not have the advantage of basically stereo, left and right subs? Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

No takers?

If your not using a dedicated, stand-alone sub, I agree with otk. Not much reason to use RCA's to the LFE inputs. Just use speaker wire and let the internal crossovers do their job.

However, don't hesitate to try different connections schemes just because you read that you need to do this or that. Everyone's room, equipment and preferences are different. There really isn't any one-size-fits all solution to speaker setup. Plus, I think its fun to experiment.

I do have a stand-alone sub, and I do use the LFE inputs on my towers and I like the result. However, I could change everything back to speaker wire only, in about 10 minutes if I wanted to.

It is not a monumental undertaking to try it both ways, especially if you have some RCA cables lying around.

Quote:
If you use two dedicated RCAs to each would you not have the advantage of basically stereo, left and right subs? Am I missing something?

You will not achieve stereo subs by using the LFE inputs, nor do you want stereo subs. All the low frequency sent via LFE is summed and sent out as a mono signal. No matter how many times you split the signal, it is still mono. Subwoofer output is supposed to be as non-directional as possible, hence the typical 80hz crossover settings for subs. Stereo is supposed to be directional so you can hear separate sounds coming from the left channel and the right channel. You want the bass to blend with your main speakers, not stand out from them.

Having 2 subs doesn`t make them stereo, stereo is a dedication of 2 separate left and right channels whereas the sub channel is a dedicated sub frequency mono channel.

Hope this makes sense.
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