Definitive Owners Thread - Page 884 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Senior Member
 
yosh7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetfan516 View Post

Hey guys I was looking for some opinions as I have a dilemma. I want to know which surrounds would be better. My current 5.1 set-up consists of BP-2000's in the front, CLR-3000 center, BP10b's as surrounds, with a HSU VTF-3. I'm going to go 7.1 and I've bought bought a pair of BPX's and SM450's. Which do you think I should go with? Either one would be wall mounted as side surrounds with the BP10B's in the back position. Thanks a lot.

Agree with badgerpilot- bpx's are the way to go for surrounds. four drivers + two tweeters in a bi-polar array - a great surround speaker!

yosh7 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-24-2012, 06:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
KJSmitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetfan516 View Post

Hey guys I was looking for some opinions as I have a dilemma. I want to know which surrounds would be better. My current 5.1 set-up consists of BP-2000's in the front, CLR-3000 center, BP10b's as surrounds, with a HSU VTF-3. I'm going to go 7.1 and I've bought bought a pair of BPX's and SM450's. Which do you think I should go with? Either one would be wall mounted as side surrounds with the BP10B's in the back position. Thanks a lot.

First off, experiment.

Second, I tend to think the BP10s would be best at the surround position and the BPX's or SMs as rears. Way more dynamics in the surrounds than rears thus the more capable speaker should be utilized there. In your case it may come down to what "fits" best in the space. In all reality, with your LFE/sub action, either 10s or BPXs will work great in the surround or rear spot. I would however only consider the 450s for rears or heights as the above mentioned.

I actually used a pair of 10b's for rears for a bit and swapped them out for in-wall UIW75s - and I prefer the direct radiating for rears in my room.

Have fun

Cheers

Love DIY
KJSmitty is offline  
Old 04-24-2012, 08:03 PM
otk
AVS Special Member
 
otk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetfan516 View Post

Hey guys I was looking for some opinions as I have a dilemma. I want to know which surrounds would be better. My current 5.1 set-up consists of BP-2000's in the front, CLR-3000 center, BP10b's as surrounds, with a HSU VTF-3. I'm going to go 7.1 and I've bought bought a pair of BPX's and SM450's. Which do you think I should go with? Either one would be wall mounted as side surrounds with the BP10B's in the back position. Thanks a lot.

i would try both and go with what sounds best

at first glance i'd say go with the bp-10s in the rear and the bpx as side surrounds but KJSmitty has a point that there's much more info and bass in the side surrounds. the rears are usually a matrix channel of the side surrounds

i have found in my situation with tower surrounds that i get an incredible phantom rear image and don't even need any rear speakers but i have one back there anyway just because i happen to have an extra tower. if your bp10s are placed slightly back behind the listening position and aimed in toward the LP you might get the same effect

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
otk is offline  
Old 04-24-2012, 11:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Matts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Anyone had any good demo's with the new StudioMonitor 65's. I have to say I haven't followed much about new speakers coming this year from all the major players. But I had an opportunity for a very quick listen of the 65's earlier this afternoon and I have to say I was very impressed with the size and dynamics of the sound they produced. Very impressive tight bass and nice sweet midrange. For the price these seem even more attractive.
Matts is offline  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Joe@Definitive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post

Anyone had any good demo's with the new StudioMonitor 65's. I have to say I haven't followed much about new speakers coming this year from all the major players. But I had an opportunity for a very quick listen of the 65's earlier this afternoon and I have to say I was very impressed with the size and dynamics of the sound they produced. Very impressive tight bass and nice sweet midrange. For the price these seem even more attractive.

Hi Matts, the new Studio Monitors have many technologies in them that SM 350 and 450 did not. BDSS drivers, Linear Response Waveguide, cast aluminum baskets in the 55 and 65, crossover networks with mylar caps and Zobel networks, etc. It took much work to get them to their present form, and they were supposed to ship last fall. But I am glad the engineers took the time to get the last 10% right. They sound great. Best, Joe
Joe@Definitive is offline  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
truwarrior22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe@Definitive View Post

Hi Matts, the new Studio Monitors have many technologies in them that SM 350 and 450 did not. BDSS drivers, Linear Response Waveguide, cast aluminum baskets in the 55 and 65, crossover networks with mylar caps and Zobel networks, etc. It took much work to get them to their present form, and they were supposed to ship last fall. But I am glad the engineers took the time to get the last 10% right. They sound great. Best, Joe

I was at the local Best Buy today and they had the SM55 and SM45. They must of just got them because they didn't even have the price stickers up yet Anyways, the SM45's sounds great! I actually liked them better then the SM55! The mids were much clear/cleaner. Perhaps on stands and away from walls, the SM55's would sound better, but the SM45's seem like they would be very easy to place any where and get excellent sound. Both had nice highs and imaged well. SM45's paired with a nice sub or two and it would be a nice setup. Curious what a SM65 would sound like now!
truwarrior22 is online now  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:25 PM
Senior Member
 
yosh7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I have an audessey xt32 question related to my bp 7000 towers. When I am near field, I have noticed my left tower sub driver rattling a bit on bass heavy material. At first, I thought it may be a bad driver (and that may still be the issue), but I decided to do some experimenting. When I turn audessey off or set it to direct, I have no issue on the same material. Unfortunately this is not a cure as everything sounds much better with audessey on. I looked at the audessey graphs on my denon and it appears there is a big low frequency dip on the left side that audessey may be attempting to compensate for. I should snap a picture of the graph... Anyway, what would solutions be? Sound treatments? Moving the speakers back and forth? Flipping the towers so the subs face out and not in? I have also read that sometimes it is better to do 4 or 5 of the 8 readings in one spot. I can see this being a time consuming issue and was hoping to get some advice.... First and foremost, it seems that the towers are so robust, that this issue shouldn't cause so much stress on the driver. I am not experienced with this stuff so I may have mis diagnosed this, but it certainly seems to be an over compensation. I currently have the gains set to about 10:30 and turning it down helps a bit, but it is not a cure. I have the beasts crossed over to my seaton submerssives at 60, so they should not be stressing with ulf stuff. My immediate thoughts are to first try moving the speakers, but I really like the imaging I get with where they are at. My second thought would be to flip the speakers so the subs face out. Room treatments would be a last resort. Thanks for any advice any may have.....

yosh7 is offline  
Old 04-25-2012, 02:47 PM
Senior Member
 
purplerain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Have a friend who has the following in mint condition/hardly used and wants $400 for all:

Definitive Tech BP-2004 Bipolar Array towers (2)

Center speaker C/L/R 1000 (1)

Pro Monitor 100 pro cinema series loudspeakers (2)

*ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY - PIONEER KRP-500M* 
(2) Monitor Audio RX6 towers
(1) Monitor Audio RX center
(2) Monitor Audio RX FX surrounds
(1) Rythmik FV15HP-SE sub
(1) NAD T758 AVR
purplerain is offline  
Old 04-25-2012, 02:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chikoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post

I have an audessey xt32 question related to my bp 7000 towers. When I am near field, I have noticed my left tower sub driver rattling a bit on bass heavy material. At first, I thought it may be a bad driver (and that may still be the issue), but I decided to do some experimenting. When I turn audessey off or set it to direct, I have no issue on the same material. Unfortunately this is not a cure as everything sounds much better with audessey on. I looked at the audessey graphs on my denon and it appears there is a big low frequency dip on the left side that audessey may be attempting to compensate for. I should snap a picture of the graph... Anyway, what would solutions be? Sound treatments? Moving the speakers back and forth? Flipping the towers so the subs face out and not in? I have also read that sometimes it is better to do 4 or 5 of the 8 readings in one spot. I can see this being a time consuming issue and was hoping to get some advice.... First and foremost, it seems that the towers are so robust, that this issue shouldn't cause so much stress on the driver. I am not experienced with this stuff so I may have mis diagnosed this, but it certainly seems to be an over compensation. I currently have the gains set to about 10:30 and turning it down helps a bit, but it is not a cure. I have the beasts crossed over to my seaton submerssives at 60, so they should not be stressing with ulf stuff. My immediate thoughts are to first try moving the speakers, but I really like the imaging I get with where they are at. My second thought would be to flip the speakers so the subs face out. Room treatments would be a last resort. Thanks for any advice any may have.....

Can you not manually tweak the audyssey settings?
chikoo is offline  
Old 04-25-2012, 03:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chikoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Are the new sm65 geared for music or HT?
chikoo is offline  
Old 04-25-2012, 03:56 PM
Senior Member
 
laeriq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplerain View Post

Have a friend who has the following in mint condition/hardly used and wants $400 for all:

Definitive Tech BP-2004 Bipolar Array towers (2)

Center speaker C/L/R 1000 (1)

Pro Monitor 100 pro cinema series loudspeakers (2)

Jump on it. Great price.
laeriq is offline  
Old 04-25-2012, 04:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
g_bartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: cleveland, oh
Posts: 3,278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post

I have an audessey xt32 question related to my bp 7000 towers. When I am near field, I have noticed my left tower sub driver rattling a bit on bass heavy material. At first, I thought it may be a bad driver (and that may still be the issue), but I decided to do some experimenting. When I turn audessey off or set it to direct, I have no issue on the same material. Unfortunately this is not a cure as everything sounds much better with audessey on. I looked at the audessey graphs on my denon and it appears there is a big low frequency dip on the left side that audessey may be attempting to compensate for. I should snap a picture of the graph... Anyway, what would solutions be? Sound treatments? Moving the speakers back and forth? Flipping the towers so the subs face out and not in? I have also read that sometimes it is better to do 4 or 5 of the 8 readings in one spot. I can see this being a time consuming issue and was hoping to get some advice.... First and foremost, it seems that the towers are so robust, that this issue shouldn't cause so much stress on the driver. I am not experienced with this stuff so I may have mis diagnosed this, but it certainly seems to be an over compensation. I currently have the gains set to about 10:30 and turning it down helps a bit, but it is not a cure. I have the beasts crossed over to my seaton submerssives at 60, so they should not be stressing with ulf stuff. My immediate thoughts are to first try moving the speakers, but I really like the imaging I get with where they are at. My second thought would be to flip the speakers so the subs face out. Room treatments would be a last resort. Thanks for any advice any may have.....

That's a tough one for sure. I don't think treatments are the answer. The next thing I would try is to x them over at 80 to see if that helps. Next I'd try switching the l/r speakers which, as you said, would reposition the subs. Good luck

g_bartman is offline  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:27 PM
Senior Member
 
yosh7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

Can you not manually tweak the audyssey settings?

Unfortunately, it seems I can not manually tweak the curves. There is some eq but pretty crappy and it disables many positive things.

yosh7 is offline  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
badgerpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bedford, Texas
Posts: 1,485
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by laeriq View Post


Jump on it. Great price.

Yep.
badgerpilot is offline  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:13 PM
Senior Member
 
Matts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

Are the new sm65 geared for music or HT?

When I heard them at Magnolia they were playing Quantum of Solace, blu-ray and were using 65 for LCR and two smaller 55's for the rears. They had a sub in the corner, which I believe was REL, though I may be mistaken. The soundstage was very dynamic and very clear at a reasonably high volume - not reference, but still quite loud. The soundstage flowed from front to back very seamlessly and had a great amount punch and low bass, even when the sub was switched off. Dialogue was crisp and evenly maintained without any trace of compression during loud db peaks. The surrounds were also quite impressive. The sound was very sweet, perhaps more on the warm side, but no obvious coloration. The mids were very sweet and again lots of strong dynamics.

I did get to hear a little music in plain stereo, again with a sub. The 65's were playing 2.1 setup. They played mostly classic music with lots of horns, kick drums, etc. Every thing I heard was very detailed and the speakers did a good job separating the various instruments while not losing cohesiveness. I thought for the price of a pair of 65's or even five 65's the value was excellent. Again not off the charts, insane quality that you would give up a pair of high quality $10k plus speakers, but they held their own against some of the more reasonably higher priced speakers in their rooms that I have listened to many times before.

Put it this way, I could easily live with a set of 65's in my HT setup and feel that I was getting every bit the bang for my buck.
Matts is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 01:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chikoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks Matts. I guess it is time to check out my local magnolia store.
chikoo is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:23 AM
Senior Member
 
yosh7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I have been a big proponent of the new uncompressed 7.1 channel audio codecs. Well holy cow. I just watched Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol last night. This is the best sound mix so far that utilizes the surround back left and right channel independently and impressively. There were several scenes where the action was (for example) right front, then surround right, then surround right back (maybe a car flipping over your head or a dust storm immersing you). For anyone on the fence for getting quality surround back left and right channels, this movie is the perfect example of what Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD have to offer. This has to be one of my favorite reference movies for audio now. This is the reason I am hoping to get a second pair of BP 7000's to perfectly blend these scenes. Don't get me wrong, the Mythos ST's I have back there are doing a more than awesome job, but I can't fathom what another pair of the big BP's would add. Oh, and the lfe was amazing with the Seaton Submerssives. My wife saw the movie at the theater and she knew some of the zinger surprise scenes and she was still shocked/scared by some of the massive lfe from a few surprise explosions, etc. She said that the sound and picture were without a doubt way better at home. (I love hearing this!)

PS - The audessey left front bp 7000 speaker issue did not make itself apparent during this movie, but I have the gain turned way down to maybe 9:00 so that it isn't bad. I am going to play with this issue more this weekend. I think I will flip the front speakers around with the subs facing out rather than in and re-run audessey to see if this improves the situation.

yosh7 is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 07:09 AM
Senior Member
 
purplerain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplerain View Post

Have a friend who has the following in mint condition/hardly used and wants $400 for all:

Definitive Tech BP-2004 Bipolar Array towers (2)

Center speaker C/L/R 1000 (1)

Pro Monitor 100 pro cinema series loudspeakers (2)

Any idea what the system is worth?

*ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY - PIONEER KRP-500M* 
(2) Monitor Audio RX6 towers
(1) Monitor Audio RX center
(2) Monitor Audio RX FX surrounds
(1) Rythmik FV15HP-SE sub
(1) NAD T758 AVR
purplerain is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 07:49 AM
otk
AVS Special Member
 
otk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post

I have an audessey xt32 question related to my bp 7000 towers. When I am near field, I have noticed my left tower sub driver rattling a bit on bass heavy material. At first, I thought it may be a bad driver (and that may still be the issue), but I decided to do some experimenting. When I turn audessey off or set it to direct, I have no issue on the same material. Unfortunately this is not a cure as everything sounds much better with audessey on. I looked at the audessey graphs on my denon and it appears there is a big low frequency dip on the left side that audessey may be attempting to compensate for. I should snap a picture of the graph... Anyway, what would solutions be? Sound treatments? Moving the speakers back and forth? Flipping the towers so the subs face out and not in? I have also read that sometimes it is better to do 4 or 5 of the 8 readings in one spot. I can see this being a time consuming issue and was hoping to get some advice.... First and foremost, it seems that the towers are so robust, that this issue shouldn't cause so much stress on the driver. I am not experienced with this stuff so I may have mis diagnosed this, but it certainly seems to be an over compensation. I currently have the gains set to about 10:30 and turning it down helps a bit, but it is not a cure. I have the beasts crossed over to my seaton submerssives at 60, so they should not be stressing with ulf stuff. My immediate thoughts are to first try moving the speakers, but I really like the imaging I get with where they are at. My second thought would be to flip the speakers so the subs face out. Room treatments would be a last resort. Thanks for any advice any may have.....

sounds like audessey is trying to boost a nasty null. you could try flipping the speakers and see what that does. this is one of the cons of full-range speakers even though it's pretty rare to run into a huge dip that EQ and room treatments can't smooth out but it does happen from time to time

you might want to do some research on bass traps. not sure if they can help with nulls though. sometimes just moving the chair a little can help but that's not always possible

if auddessey is trying to boost a null that could cause damage to the woofer in the long run

have you tried bass management with a 40hz crossover ?

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
otk is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:29 AM
Senior Member
 
Joe@Definitive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

That's a tough one for sure. I don't think treatments are the answer. The next thing I would try is to x them over at 80 to see if that helps. Next I'd try switching the l/r speakers which, as you said, would reposition the subs. Good luck

I agree with G: first, try crossing at 80 Hz (or even 40); then flipping the L / R speakers; third, try repositioning the speakers, which I know you'd rather leave for the last option, as you like the way they image where they are. Let us know how it turns out, OK?
Joe@Definitive is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
g_bartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: cleveland, oh
Posts: 3,278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post

I have been a big proponent of the new uncompressed 7.1 channel audio codecs. Well holy cow. I just watched Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol last night. This is the best sound mix so far that utilizes the surround back left and right channel independently and impressively. There were several scenes where the action was (for example) right front, then surround right, then surround right back (maybe a car flipping over your head or a dust storm immersing you). For anyone on the fence for getting quality surround back left and right channels, this movie is the perfect example of what Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD have to offer. This has to be one of my favorite reference movies for audio now. This is the reason I am hoping to get a second pair of BP 7000's to perfectly blend these scenes. Don't get me wrong, the Mythos ST's I have back there are doing a more than awesome job, but I can't fathom what another pair of the big BP's would add. Oh, and the lfe was amazing with the Seaton Submerssives. My wife saw the movie at the theater and she knew some of the zinger surprise scenes and she was still shocked/scared by some of the massive lfe from a few surprise explosions, etc. She said that the sound and picture were without a doubt way better at home. (I love hearing this!)

PS - The audessey left front bp 7000 speaker issue did not make itself apparent during this movie, but I have the gain turned way down to maybe 9:00 so that it isn't bad. I am going to play with this issue more this weekend. I think I will flip the front speakers around with the subs facing out rather than in and re-run audessey to see if this improves the situation.

Thanks, I was looking for something to watch this weekend. I wish more movies would be recorded in 7.1.

g_bartman is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Joe@Definitive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post

When I heard them at Magnolia they were playing Quantum of Solace, blu-ray and were using 65 for LCR and two smaller 55's for the rears. They had a sub in the corner, which I believe was REL, though I may be mistaken. The soundstage was very dynamic and very clear at a reasonably high volume - not reference, but still quite loud. The soundstage flowed from front to back very seamlessly and had a great amount punch and low bass, even when the sub was switched off. Dialogue was crisp and evenly maintained without any trace of compression during loud db peaks. The surrounds were also quite impressive. The sound was very sweet, perhaps more on the warm side, but no obvious coloration. The mids were very sweet and again lots of strong dynamics.

I did get to hear a little music in plain stereo, again with a sub. The 65's were playing 2.1 setup. They played mostly classic music with lots of horns, kick drums, etc. Every thing I heard was very detailed and the speakers did a good job separating the various instruments while not losing cohesiveness. I thought for the price of a pair of 65's or even five 65's the value was excellent. Again not off the charts, insane quality that you would give up a pair of high quality $10k plus speakers, but they held their own against some of the more reasonably higher priced speakers in their rooms that I have listened to many times before.

Put it this way, I could easily live with a set of 65's in my HT setup and feel that I was getting every bit the bang for my buck.

Hi Matts and Chikoo, we always try to voice speakers for music first. In our view, everyone knows what good vocals, good piano, trumpets etc. should sound like. If we get that right, then it's just a matter of making sure the speaker can hande the dynamic range of movies. Who knows what a movie dinosaur stomp, or inter-galactic space ship, is really supposed to sound like? "Accurate" in that realm is harder to define. I hope this helps - best, Joe
Joe@Definitive is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
FilmMixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles Area, CA. USA
Posts: 6,909
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Liked: 593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe@Definitive View Post

Hi Matts and Chikoo, we always try to voice speakers for music first. In our view, everyone knows what good vocals, good piano, trumpets etc. should sound like. If we get that right, then it's just a matter of making sure the speaker can hande the dynamic range of movies. Who knows what a movie dinosaur stomp, or inter-galactic space ship, is really supposed to sound like? "Accurate" in that realm is harder to define. I hope this helps - best, Joe

However, we have a tuning standard when we mix films, which is easy to replicate.... "accurate" playback of music content is nearly impossible since that industry has no standard for tuning, SPL, placement, bass management, etc..

I disgree with the comment that everyone knows what musical sources should sound like.. IMO, it's way more subjective than knowing what the most universal sound (the human voice) should be like, and since it's the center of all film sound tracks, I think it a better metric for having a common barometer of "quality."

However, whatever you guys are doing, subjectively or otherwise, and how you are doing it, has turned out some great products, and I love my STS's.
FilmMixer is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 09:06 AM
Senior Member
 
Joe@Definitive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Good points, Film. My point was that while we've all heard voices, pianos etc, I've never heard a dinosaur or an intergalactic space ship. But you are right to say that voice is the key. In our view, if a speaker doesn't reproduce vocals correctly, all the rest doesn't really matter. Voices are right in the center of so much other material on music and movie soundtracks.
I am glad you love your STS! Best, Joe
Joe@Definitive is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:18 AM
otk
AVS Special Member
 
otk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
even if we knew what a real dinosaur sounded it like it would be different in an action film. i was watching one of the rocky movies the other day and the punches were very prominent in the LFE channel


All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
otk is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 02:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chikoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,067
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts View Post

When I heard them at Magnolia they were playing Quantum of Solace, blu-ray and were using 65 for LCR and two smaller 55's for the rears. They had a sub in the corner, which I believe was REL, though I may be mistaken. The soundstage was very dynamic and very clear at a reasonably high volume - not reference, but still quite loud. The soundstage flowed from front to back very seamlessly and had a great amount punch and low bass, even when the sub was switched off. Dialogue was crisp and evenly maintained without any trace of compression during loud db peaks. The surrounds were also quite impressive. The sound was very sweet, perhaps more on the warm side, but no obvious coloration. The mids were very sweet and again lots of strong dynamics.

I did get to hear a little music in plain stereo, again with a sub. The 65's were playing 2.1 setup. They played mostly classic music with lots of horns, kick drums, etc. Every thing I heard was very detailed and the speakers did a good job separating the various instruments while not losing cohesiveness. I thought for the price of a pair of 65's or even five 65's the value was excellent. Again not off the charts, insane quality that you would give up a pair of high quality $10k plus speakers, but they held their own against some of the more reasonably higher priced speakers in their rooms that I have listened to many times before.

Put it this way, I could easily live with a set of 65's in my HT setup and feel that I was getting every bit the bang for my buck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

Thanks Matts. I guess it is time to check out my local magnolia store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe@Definitive View Post

Hi Matts and Chikoo, we always try to voice speakers for music first. In our view, everyone knows what good vocals, good piano, trumpets etc. should sound like. If we get that right, then it's just a matter of making sure the speaker can hande the dynamic range of movies. Who knows what a movie dinosaur stomp, or inter-galactic space ship, is really supposed to sound like? "Accurate" in that realm is harder to define. I hope this helps - best, Joe


Oh...why did I visit the magnolia store....why?

So I get to the Magnolia designer store. They do not have and do not anticipate having the SM45,55,65 speakers for audition at all.

So I look around and audition some bookshelves by Monitor Audio, B&W, Sonus faber, et al.

And I find what I was looking for - exactly what I was looking for in a speaker. Except that a pair will cost me $1000 bucks.

I do not even find them anywhere on ebay or audiogon or local craigslist today.

I will keep looking....but who knows...I may very well end up buying new ones because apparently no one in their right mind is selling them used. Rightly so.

PS: After looking up the specs of the speaker I am in love with, I am so proud of myself. I have always loved the sound of paper cones growing up, and the ones I like I find out are made of "cellulose"...fancy name for paper. So even after 20 years, my sonic memory/love still lives.
chikoo is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 04:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
g_bartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: cleveland, oh
Posts: 3,278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

even if we knew what a real dinosaur sounded it like it would be different in an action film. i was watching one of the rocky movies the other day and the punches were very prominent in the LFE channel


otk, you are the man. I needed a good laugh with the day I'm having at work.

g_bartman is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 09:26 PM
Member
 
koicraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

Oh...why did I visit the magnolia store....why?

So I get to the Magnolia designer store. They do not have and do not anticipate having the SM45,55,65 speakers for audition at all.

So I look around and audition some bookshelves by Monitor Audio, B&W, Sonus faber, et al.

And I find what I was looking for - exactly what I was looking for in a speaker. Except that a pair will cost me $1000 bucks.

I do not even find them anywhere on ebay or audiogon or local craigslist today.

I will keep looking....but who knows...I may very well end up buying new ones because apparently no one in their right mind is selling them used. Rightly so.

PS: After looking up the specs of the speaker I am in love with, I am so proud of myself. I have always loved the sound of paper cones growing up, and the ones I like I find out are made of "cellulose"...fancy name for paper. So even after 20 years, my sonic memory/love still lives.

So...inquiring minds...Bose 301's?

koicraft is offline  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
truwarrior22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post

I have been a big proponent of the new uncompressed 7.1 channel audio codecs. Well holy cow. I just watched Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol last night. This is the best sound mix so far that utilizes the surround back left and right channel independently and impressively. There were several scenes where the action was (for example) right front, then surround right, then surround right back (maybe a car flipping over your head or a dust storm immersing you). For anyone on the fence for getting quality surround back left and right channels, this movie is the perfect example of what Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD have to offer. This has to be one of my favorite reference movies for audio now. This is the reason I am hoping to get a second pair of BP 7000's to perfectly blend these scenes. Don't get me wrong, the Mythos ST's I have back there are doing a more than awesome job, but I can't fathom what another pair of the big BP's would add. Oh, and the lfe was amazing with the Seaton Submerssives. My wife saw the movie at the theater and she knew some of the zinger surprise scenes and she was still shocked/scared by some of the massive lfe from a few surprise explosions, etc. She said that the sound and picture were without a doubt way better at home. (I love hearing this!)

PS - The audessey left front bp 7000 speaker issue did not make itself apparent during this movie, but I have the gain turned way down to maybe 9:00 so that it isn't bad. I am going to play with this issue more this weekend. I think I will flip the front speakers around with the subs facing out rather than in and re-run audessey to see if this improves the situation.

Audessey on my Denon 2808 never caused any issues for me. I like it better disabled in my room though. I've never had an abnormal sounds like that. I would check screws, internal wiring, woofer suspension. Sure it's not the drywall or floor at all making the noise? I agree on the bp7000 rears too, that would be sweet!
truwarrior22 is online now  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
truwarrior22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by koicraft View Post


So...inquiring minds...Bose 301's?

Lol, I vote Bose too.
truwarrior22 is online now  
 

Tags
Definitive Technology , Definitive Technology Supercube Trinity , Definitive Technology Bpx Speaker Single Black , Definitive Technology Bpvx Speaker Single Black , Definitive Technology Supercube 2000 Subwoofer , Definitive Technology Super Cube 4000 Subwoofer , Definitive Technology Studiomonitor 350 Speakers , Definitive Technology Bp2x Speakers , Definitive Technology Mythos 6 Aluminum Stand , Marantz Sr7002 Surround Receiver , Receivers Amplifiers , Parasound , Definitive Technology Bp7004 , Speaker Systems
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off