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post #3841 of 3935 Old 02-06-2014, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I have 4 170SE and a 340SE C in a small room (15x12x8). If I upgrade the front 2 170s to 340s would it make much difference in such a small room?
Yes, I think it will. I made a similar change years ago, although my room is 16x14.

More midrange presence and opened/cleaner. The 340 can handle more continuous power, can get louder, and because of these, all things being equal, are more dynamic that the 170's.

Also, the tweeters in the 340 and 170 are not exactly the same.

That all said, it is a value judgement that you will have to make by hearing it yourself.

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post #3842 of 3935 Old 02-06-2014, 12:52 PM
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What is the difference in tweeters. Ive always heard that the 170SE and 340SE have the exact same tweeter. Sure youre not thinking of the EXBAC tech that they put in the 340SE C center?

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post #3843 of 3935 Old 02-06-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

What is the difference in tweeters. Ive always heard that the 170SE and 340SE have the exact same tweeter. Sure youre not thinking of the EXBAC tech that they put in the 340SE C center?
No...not EXBAC.

The motor structure behind them...the 340's can handle more power. I should have added that sonically, they are not much different...if different at all.

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post #3844 of 3935 Old 02-06-2014, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

No...not EXBAC.

The motor structure behind them...the 340's can handle more power. I should have added that sonically, they are not much different...if different at all.
Thanks. Good to know.
Sounds like your overall experience is that theres very little difference unless listening at fairly loud volumes other than slightly improved dynamics. Im running a 7.1 setup so some of that might be masked by my front heights.

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post #3845 of 3935 Old 02-06-2014, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Thanks. Good to know.
Sounds like your overall experience is that theres very little difference unless listening at fairly loud volumes other than slightly improved dynamics. Im running a 7.1 setup so some of that might be masked by my front heights.
I think how little or how big the differences are is a subjective matter. I didn't use the word "slightly" in my post. smile.gif

The 340 is a bigger speaker....and sounds like it. At 7' and low volumes, probably not a big deal, but the differences between the two speakers is significant IMO.

Because it is subjective, it isn't something that can be easily quantified in words...you really need to experience it for yourself.

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post #3846 of 3935 Old 02-06-2014, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

I think how little or how big the differences are is a subjective matter. I didn't use the word "slightly" in my post. smile.gif

The 340 is a bigger speaker....and sounds like it. At 7' and low volumes, probably not a big deal, but the differences between the two speakers is significant IMO.

Because it is subjective, it isn't something that can be easily quantified in words...you really need to experience it for yourself.
Thank you again.

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post #3847 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 10:38 AM
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I just got done doing some reading over in the Ascend forums. Theres some people over there that actually prefer the 170 over the 340 for music. It has a flatter response and provides more detail and clarity. They sat the TM design of the 170 is superior to the MTM design of the 340.

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post #3848 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I just got done doing some reading over in the Ascend forums. Theres some people over there that actually prefer the 170 over the 340 for music. It has a flatter response and provides more detail and clarity. They sat the TM design of the 170 is superior to the MTM design of the 340.
Do you have a link to that? I don't doubt you read that, but it certainly isn't what the majority think between the two.

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post #3849 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 12:35 PM
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Do you have a link to that? I don't doubt you read that, but it certainly isn't what the majority think between the two.
It would take a while to find it specifically. I read for about 3 hours. I know in general where but the specific posts would take all day to find. I'll post soon.

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post #3850 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Do you have a link to that? I don't doubt you read that, but it certainly isn't what the majority think between the two.
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?2-Loudspeakers-Subwoofers-Accessories-Electronics

This is where I found them. But I browsed everything up to about page 70.

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post #3851 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

It would take a while to find it specifically. I read for about 3 hours. I know in general where but the specific posts would take all day to find. I'll post soon.
No worries. I am sure you read the posts where most everyone think the 340 is a better speaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?2-Loudspeakers-Subwoofers-Accessories-Electronics

This is where I found them. But I browsed everything up to about page 70.
That is just a link to the subforum...is there a specific thread?

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post #3852 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 12:49 PM
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Most people thought the 340s were better. But most mentioned because of higher output with less distortion.
Thats not a link to the subforum. Its a general discussion thread.

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post #3853 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Most people thought the 340s were better. But most mentioned because of higher output with less distortion.
Thats not a link to the subforum. Its a general discussion thread.
Less distortion is a pretty good thing...

When I click on the link...it take me to the Loudspeakers, Subwoofers, Accessories, Electronics subforum.

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post #3854 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 12:54 PM
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And more dynamic. Basically the same things you said.
But I dont remember a post saying the 340s are any more accurate or detailed.

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post #3855 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 12:56 PM
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Less distortion is a pretty good thing...

When I click on the link...it take me to the Loudspeakers, Subwoofers, Accessories, Electronics subforum.
Less distortion is a great thing. But most noticeable when listening at loud volumes. Unnecessary in my case.
That is the correct link. You will find a lot of discussion about the Ascend speakers there.

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post #3856 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Less distortion is a great thing. But most noticeable when listening at loud volumes. Unnecessary in my case.
That is the correct link. You will find a lot of discussion about the Ascend speakers there.
Yeah...if you listen at moderate volumes, and your room is not big, the upgrading to 340 is not a big jump.

BTW....I am an Ascend Forum moderator, so I have a general idea of what is going on there. smile.gif

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post #3857 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

BTW....I am an Ascend Forum moderator, so I have a general idea of what is going on there. smile.gif
I already knew that. Youve been very helpful here as well.

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post #3858 of 3935 Old 02-10-2014, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Most people thought the 340s were better. But most mentioned because of higher output with less distortion.
Thats not a link to the subforum. Its a general discussion thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

It would take a while to find it specifically. I read for about 3 hours. I know in general where but the specific posts would take all day to find. I'll post soon.
No worries. I am sure you read the posts where most everyone think the 340 is a better speaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?2-Loudspeakers-Subwoofers-Accessories-Electronics

This is where I found them. But I browsed everything up to about page 70.
That is just a link to the subforum...is there a specific thread?

I just get the subforum page,, too....not a specific thread.

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post #3859 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I just got done doing some reading over in the Ascend forums. Theres some people over there that actually prefer the 170 over the 340 for music. It has a flatter response and provides more detail and clarity. They sat the TM design of the 170 is superior to the MTM design of the 340.

Huh, that is news to me. We have thousands of customers that have switched from 170's to 340's as fronts (most move the 170's to the rears) and I really can't recall anyone not being happy with the upgrade. As I mentioned, thousands of our customers have done this. That said, the 340's and 170's are different speakers, with different dispersion characteristics. 170's are more flexible with regard to placement and work well when positioned above or below ear level, while the 340's are not as placement friendly and should be placed close to ear-level. In addition, the 340 uses a step up tweeter design.

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post #3860 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 03:32 AM
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Thats good to know but I think theres some confusion. I didnt say anything about anyone not being happy with anything. Reread my post.
And even though you cant recall it common sense tells me that if thousands of people do anything there will always be mixed results and opinions. And when speaking about something as subjective as speakers it should be absolutely no surprise that not 100% of people agree. If I get some spare time I will try to find one of the posts I was referring to. It will take some time because I read literally hundreds of posts the other night.
Would you say that it is impossible for someone to be of the opinion that the TM design of the 170 might provide better detail and clarity than the MTM design of the 340 when used in the vertical position?
Im sure its not news to you that the 170 provides a flatter response than the 340? Is there nothing to be said for that when considering detail and accuracy?
Can you tell me exactly what it is about the 340 tweeter design that makes it a step up from the 170?

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post #3861 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 05:49 AM
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post #3862 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 06:37 AM
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post #3863 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 09:21 AM
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OK...got it.

Yeah...a couple of isolated preferences that I am sure have good explanations. Have you read any other posts by those two posters?

Let's go about it a different way....is there anything you feel your 170's lack?

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post #3864 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Let's go about it a different way....is there anything you feel your 170's lack?
Good question.
No. Nothing in particular offhand. Im quite pleased with them.
I wasnt even considering an upgrade until I found someone selling used 340s. Thats when I thought Id do some research and see if it would be a worthwhile endeavour. No sense in making a blind purchase and just because the price is good doesnt mean its money well spent.
So I set about the nearly impossible task of trying to find out if its worth the money judging by other peoples opinions when its really a very subjective and personal decision. Something I think many of us on the internet can relate to. As you said "A value judgement that you will have to make by hearing it yourself".
That being said I have already ordered 2 340SE and will post my amateur opinion when I get them and have had some time to do a fair evaluation in my own room with my own ears.
Thanks for the help.

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post #3865 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 11:28 AM
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Yeah...the upgrade itch is hard to shake.

I would have told you to save your money and try the Sierra-2's. I think they are truly remarkable....that is my next upgrade. I have bought speakers for almost 7 years.
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post #3866 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Thats good to know but I think theres some confusion. I didnt say anything about anyone not being happy with anything. Reread my post.
And even though you cant recall it common sense tells me that if thousands of people do anything there will always be mixed results and opinions. And when speaking about something as subjective as speakers it should be absolutely no surprise that not 100% of people agree. If I get some spare time I will try to find one of the posts I was referring to. It will take some time because I read literally hundreds of posts the other night.
Would you say that it is impossible for someone to be of the opinion that the TM design of the 170 might provide better detail and clarity than the MTM design of the 340 when used in the vertical position?
Im sure its not news to you that the 170 provides a flatter response than the 340? Is there nothing to be said for that when considering detail and accuracy?
Can you tell me exactly what it is about the 340 tweeter design that makes it a step up from the 170?

007, I think there might be some confusion. You mention the "MTM design of the 340 when used in the vertical position" The MTM design, in general, is specifically designed for greater midrange clarity when used vertically compared to a TM or MT design using the same components, assuming you have the MTM speakers positioned at the ideal height. It accomplishes this by reducing the nasty effect of both floor and ceiling reflections and providing a more symmetrical lobe at the listening position. There is both horizontal and vertical symmetry with regard to dispersion. As I mentioned, however, it is extremely important to position the MTM speakers properly, if not, than the advantages of the MTM design become disadvantages.

In your post, if you meant positioning the 340's horizontally (like our 340SE center), horizontal dispersion will be more limited compared to a TM design and if you are outside of the usable horizontal listening window of the MTM (in the case of the 340SE center -- about +/- 20 degs), the TM will generally have more midrange clarity.

The 170's do have a slightly flatter on-axis response, but the 340's have more symmetrical dispersion. Which character is more important? It totally depends on the usage, which is precisely why -- on extremely rare occasion, a customer of ours might prefer the 170 over the 340. Poh Hsu preferred our HTM-200 over the CBM-170, go figure? So much depends on your listening preferences and your particular environment, which we can never judge for you, so we must take an educated guess which we base on customer feedback and the popularity of our 5.1 system with 340's as fronts and 170's as rears. It is certainly possible that you will prefer the 170's over the 340's -- but the chances of that happening with the way your system is setup is, based on customer feedback, highly unlikely.

You are taking the best approach -- giving both speakers a try so that you can determine for yourself.

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post #3867 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 08:16 PM
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Thank you Dave.
When you talk about positioning the 340s properly is there a general guideline specifically for them that you can post? I understand the room will have an effect but what would be ideal placement. I assume the right height would be with the tweeter at ear level. What about the distance from walls? Distance from lp? Toe in angle?
My room is 15x12x8. Hard room in an old bldg. Plaster walls and tile floors. Far from ideal I know. Its practically an echo chamber. Im renting so carpet or any kind of acoustic treatments is not an option.
I sit 72" exact opposite from the center channel. The LR are on opposite ends of the center channel same distance from the back wall (24") as the center channel and are approx 63" apart center to center. At this time I have the LR pointed directly at the lp. The left speaker is pretty much out in the middle of the room. But unfortunately the right speaker is only about 12" from the right wall so its pretty much in the corner (12" from right wall and 24" from back wall). They are both on stands 30" from the floor.
I think Im in fairly decent shape except the right speaker being so close to the corner but that cant be helped.
Any suggestions? Ideas? Anything special I should do to accomodate the 340s?

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post #3868 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Thank you Dave.
When you talk about positioning the 340s properly is there a general guideline specifically for them that you can post? I understand the room will have an effect but what would be ideal placement. I assume the right height would be with the tweeter at ear level. What about the distance from walls? Distance from lp? Toe in angle?
My room is 15x12x8. Hard room in an old bldg. Plaster walls and tile floors. Far from ideal I know. Its practically an echo chamber. Im renting so carpet or any kind of acoustic treatments is not an option.
I sit 72" exact opposite from the center channel. The LR are on opposite ends of the center channel same distance from the back wall (24") as the center channel and are approx 63" apart center to center. At this time I have the LR pointed directly at the lp. The left speaker is pretty much out in the middle of the room. But unfortunately the right speaker is only about 12" from the right wall so its pretty much in the corner (12" from right wall and 24" from back wall). They are both on stands 30" from the floor.
I think Im in fairly decent shape except the right speaker being so close to the corner but that cant be helped.
Any suggestions? Ideas? Anything special I should do to accomodate the 340s?

The key with the 340's (or any MTM which is positioned upright, as designed) is for the tweeter to be as close to ear-level as possible - this is the acoustic center of the speaker. Horizontal dispersion will be wide, and at 6 feet back from your center, I recommend positioning the speakers 5-6 ft apart -- but this is just a general starting point. Your placement already sounds ideal for the 340's and in a room with a lot of echo, the advantages of the MTM design are beneficial as it helps reduce reflection smile.gif With regard to toe-in, this is something to simply experiment with as there really is no right or wrong. However, in a highly reflective room, reducing some high frequency reflections off the side-walls by slightly angling the speakers inward would be recommended.

I think you are in good shape!!!

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post #3869 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 08:28 PM
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Good to hear. Thanks again.

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post #3870 of 3935 Old 02-11-2014, 08:57 PM
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Hey all, I'm considering the CMT - 340 SE for L/C/R and the 170 for surrounds. I'm attracted to the price and that high output w/ low distortion from what I've read here in this thread. I have two questions though as I have some time to shop around before making a decision...

Would the Sierra 1's be more ideal for my setup? I have a small room @ 9' X 14' X 8'. Music/movies 50/50 and I want the best SQ I can get for my money but also like to play music like dubstep, rock, dance, ect for friends on the weekends. I'm not sure what dB I was playing at but my old PC12-NSD sub was constantly hitting the limiter..so pretty loud lol. However, I like classical, blues, jazz ect for other times and this is where I really want good SQ. I hear the CMT-340's are for larger rooms so am wondering if the Sierra will be better? Oh, I'll also be using a SVS PC12-Plus for a sub and probably a $900 AVR to power the speakers.

Also, I know I'm probably going to get a biased response here but I'll ask anyway...Can anyone tell me how these will compare to say Focal 706v bookshelf speakers w/ the CC 700v center...or Paradigm Monitor series? Both the Focal, Paradigm, and Ascend CMT-340's have high sensitivity and I've never heard any of these. The Focal 5-channel system will cost about $2400 so about a thousand bucks more, and the Paradigm are about $2000. If these are in the same ballpark then I'll definitely go with Ascend and save a bunch of money instead.
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Ascend Acoustics , Pioneer Vsx 1014txk Thx Select Av Receiver , Receivers Amplifiers , Velodyne Impact 10 10 Subwoofer

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