Boston Acoustics Owners Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 3004 Old 08-16-2007, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitesymphony View Post

I'm very used to the Bostons, and the change did come about with a receiver upgrade, but the receiver (Pioneer Elite) is considered warm or neutral. Running test tones through the system revealed that the treble response was much higher than the other ranges, which is why it's set to -4.5 dB on both channels to achieve reference levels.

Maybe the VR-M60s don't respond well to passive bi-amplification? That's my only thought...

That's probably it. When you use passive bi-amplification, you run the risk of overdoing the lows or the highs. The crossover is designed to make the tweeter and woofer level with each other, but with passive bi-amping you're bypassing that, without using an active crossover to do the same thing.

Put back the jumper, remove the bi-amping, and see what happens.
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post #902 of 3004 Old 08-16-2007, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

hm i actually am planning on purchasing the exact cr67 setup you have right now, what is it you dont like about the setup? I've listened to the crc7 and the sound is really echoey and boxey, vrc was way better imo. As for the cr67 you could always use them for rears, which is what i plan to do... cr67 as fronts then if i feel the need switch them to rears and get the vr2's when they are even cheaper than now.

I liked what I heard at CC from the VRC compared to the CRC7, so I got it. I knew it was a 3 way speaker vs. the 2 way CR67. From what I read here so far, you are supposed to match up your front 3 speakers with the same model line, that is the only reason I was thinking about returning the VRC for the CRC7. Also, the CRC7 will fit better in front of my HDTV. I would like to keep the VRC if it isn't going to mess up the sound of my front 3 speakers. I too might upgrade to the VR2's if the price continues to fall.

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post #903 of 3004 Old 08-16-2007, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by snatta View Post

I would like to keep the VRC if it isn't going to mess up the sound of my front 3 speakers. I too might upgrade to the VR2's if the price continues to fall.

I don't think the price will fall much more. It is already down 50%, and it is a closeout sale because they are discontinuing it. Soon you won't be able to buy them new at all (at least not from an authorized source that will keep the warranty valid).
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post #904 of 3004 Old 08-16-2007, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by snatta View Post

I would like to keep the VRC if it isn't going to mess up the sound of my front 3 speakers.

are you using them now? when i tested the combo at CC it sounded good, or does it not match when you took them home and tried them?
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post #905 of 3004 Old 08-16-2007, 04:16 PM
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OK, Thanks Hdmi.
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post #906 of 3004 Old 08-16-2007, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

are you using them now? when i tested the combo at CC it sounded good, or does it not match when you took them home and tried them?

I only tested them at CC too. The VRC sounded better then the CRC7. It was hard for me to tell how the CR67 sounded with the VRC vs. CRC7. I liked the sound of the CR67 when they were on by themselves, then I had them turn on the center speakers. I don't have any of these speakers hooked up at my house yet. I am in the process of trying to choose a receiver now. I probably won't be able to tell the difference if the sound doesn't match perfectly between the VRC and the CR67's, but I would like to know I am getting the best chance to hear the best sound out of my front 3 speakers.

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post #907 of 3004 Old 08-17-2007, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

That's probably it. When you use passive bi-amplification, you run the risk of overdoing the lows or the highs. The crossover is designed to make the tweeter and woofer level with each other, but with passive bi-amping you're bypassing that, without using an active crossover to do the same thing.

Put back the jumper, remove the bi-amping, and see what happens.

Thank you for the recommendation; it worked! I was a little suspicious about passive bi-amping simply because going from 12 AWG to 10 AWG for the tweeter wires really affected the frequency balance (12 AWG was too dark--tweeters too low in level, 10 AWG was much too bright).

When I went back to regular wiring, I didn't use the included brass jumpers--12 AWG OFC wire seems to do a better job of transferring the signal. I put the wire jumpers back in, and connected the - side of the main cable to the upper-left binding post and the + side to the lower-right post. I figured that way, the wire bridges wouldn't have as much of an effect. (Is this sound logic, or would it be better to connect only the woofer or tweeter posts?)

In any case, the VR-M60s are back to being neutral and nice. I was really concerned for a while there! The difference in frequency balance is unreal.

I don't understand why passive bi-amplification didn't work. Aren't the speakers' built-in passive crossovers always in place, even without bridges?
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post #908 of 3004 Old 08-17-2007, 10:16 AM
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In addition to directing the frequencies, the built-in crossovers are designed to split the power in a way that keeps the tweeter and woofer (and midrange if any) at the same sound level with each other. If you use bi-amping, you are no longer allowing the speaker's crossover to determine how much power goes where.
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post #909 of 3004 Old 08-17-2007, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snatta View Post

Anyone else have an opinion on what I should do with my center speaker? Should I keep the VRC to use with my CR67 bookshelfs, or return it for the matching CRC7?

I am also thinking about upgrading to the VR2 speakers to match the VRC, and returning the CR67 bookshelfs. I am not sure if I want to $pend the extra money and can make room for the floorstanding speakers in my room.

Thanks

Keep the VRC. My buddy has that set up and it sounds pretty good. It works good for movies but comes up short for muti channel audio.

I have the VR3's and love them. For me I would never have bookshelf's for mains, but then again I listen to alot of music in 2 channel. I also have the VR12 for a center, and it rocks! Sure wish there was more multi channel music out there.(As in rock n roll) When done right it sounds awsome.
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post #910 of 3004 Old 08-17-2007, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by corego View Post

Funny. I'm pretty much in the same boat. I used this Creative DDTS-100 thing for my decoding from my PC into the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultra's. Worked fine but hardly breath taking.

I bought 4 VR3's at the price you mentioned from One Call along with a VRC and a XB6 sub. Man it's awesome.

I decided to go with the VR3's as a rear mainly because they were so cheap and I figured I could get some VRX's later (hopefully if they still exist). Plus I don't have a good place to mount the VRX's in the apartment.

At any rate, I've paired the speakers with a Denon AVR-3808CI. Totally awesome combination. Especially with the Sammy LED DLP. It's all come together nicely and I couldn't be happier.

A part of me thinks I should've gone for the dipole VRX's but whatev's.

You haven't gotten your VR3's yet have you? I asked One Call for an invoice today just to make sure they don't forget that I put in an order. As far as I know they still haven't gotten them from BA yet.
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post #911 of 3004 Old 08-17-2007, 04:23 PM
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there still waiting for there shipment
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post #912 of 3004 Old 08-17-2007, 07:20 PM
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What can we do to convince BA to start making the VR12 and VR920 again?
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post #913 of 3004 Old 08-17-2007, 07:39 PM
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lol i prefer the vr965, is the vr12 really that much better than the vrc i am thinking of buying a vr12 used, first time i've ever bought a used speaker kinda nervous.
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post #914 of 3004 Old 08-17-2007, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

In addition to directing the frequencies, the built-in crossovers are designed to split the power in a way that keeps the tweeter and woofer (and midrange if any) at the same sound level with each other. If you use bi-amping, you are no longer allowing the speaker's crossover to determine how much power goes where.

But isn't that only true with active bi-amping? I'm not arguing with the results, but it seems like passive bi-amping could offer no possible improvements for anyone if that's the case, since it's not possible to level match.

I'm just trying to gain a better understanding. Passive bi-amping was one of the reasons I bought this receiver.
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post #915 of 3004 Old 08-18-2007, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by infinitesymphony View Post

But isn't that only true with active bi-amping? I'm not arguing with the results, but it seems like passive bi-amping could offer no possible improvements for anyone if that's the case, since it's not possible to level match.

See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=883126
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post #916 of 3004 Old 08-18-2007, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TheLoverings View Post

lol i prefer the vr965, is the vr12 really that much better than the vrc i am thinking of buying a vr12 used, first time i've ever bought a used speaker kinda nervous.

You prefer the VR965 to what? The VR920 is a horizontally oriented center and the VR965 is a tower.

Anybody who has heard both says the VR12 kills the VRC.
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post #917 of 3004 Old 08-19-2007, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLoverings View Post

lol i prefer the vr965, is the vr12 really that much better than the vrc i am thinking of buying a vr12 used, first time i've ever bought a used speaker kinda nervous.

I bought my VR10 off EBay and it was in perfect condition. As they don't make these anymore that would be one of the few sources left for these wonderful center channels. Just make sure the person you're buying from is honest (look at their feedback), and is representing exactly what you're getting. It also wouldn't hurt asking some questions if you're concerned. I've bought quite a number of things from Ebay and everything has been a positive experience. Make sure you use Paypal too as there is usually recourse if you do get a bad deal.

It's to bad Boston Acoustics have not IMO come out with a better center since these.
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post #918 of 3004 Old 08-20-2007, 07:51 AM
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Why can't I download this entire thread?
Thx

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post #919 of 3004 Old 08-20-2007, 11:30 AM
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You haven't gotten your VR3's yet have you?

Yeah all my stuff arrived on the 6th. One of the VR3's grilles kinda got messed up when I was unpacking the speaker, One Call even sent me a new one free of charge. So yeah, pretty pleased with the purchase from them and even more pleased with the speakers.

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post #920 of 3004 Old 08-20-2007, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by corego View Post

Yeah all my stuff arrived on the 6th. One of the VR3's grilles kinda got messed up when I was unpacking the speaker, One Call even sent me a new one free of charge. So yeah, pretty pleased with the purchase from them and even more pleased with the speakers.

Hmm OK. I ordered mine on the 8th so they must have sold out after you ordered. I asked them for a status update again so I'll see whats going on.
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post #921 of 3004 Old 08-20-2007, 01:43 PM
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Has anyone activly bi-amped the VR3's? In the manual it says not to. I think they say that because you have to bypass the passive crossovers in the spreakers manualy.
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post #922 of 3004 Old 08-20-2007, 06:36 PM
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i had mine actively bi amped, it opened up the sound stage a little, but it was only on a Sony str-5200es. Not the best sounding receiver. Gave it back to my friend.
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post #923 of 3004 Old 08-21-2007, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by corego View Post

Yeah all my stuff arrived on the 6th. One of the VR3's grilles kinda got messed up when I was unpacking the speaker, One Call even sent me a new one free of charge. So yeah, pretty pleased with the purchase from them and even more pleased with the speakers.

Now they are telling me they won't be in until the first week of September. If that is accurate then the delay will amount to one month, starting on 08/07 when I placed the order. That is still worth it considering the price, I just wish I had known so I could have expected the delay.
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post #924 of 3004 Old 08-21-2007, 12:28 PM
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Bit of a bummer. But One Call are definitely decent in my book. The VRC wasn't in stock when I first ordered it. They gave me a time frame and it actually was shipped out and arrived at my place the day they said they were supposed to have received it themselves.

And if you got the $275 pricing then yeah. You really can't beat that. It's probably the best deal I've ever had.

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post #925 of 3004 Old 08-21-2007, 01:02 PM
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I have been researching LFE crossover settings and I am not sure whether I should pick 60Hz or 80Hz for my setup. I am fairly certain that I should be setting all 5 of my speakers to "SMALL." I realize it is more complicated than just the ratings on my speakers but these stats are a good place to start.

The lower extension (+-3dB) on my speakers are:
VR3 mains - 35Hz
VRC center - 70Hz
VRX surrounds - 80Hz
Cheap subwoofer (for now) - 25Hz

Setting the LFE crossover at 60Hz will help to diffuse the somewhat directional 60-80Hz frequencies by letting my mains take care of that range. This would also relieve my subwoofer of another 20Hz. As far as I am aware, the only downside that comes with the 60Hz crossover is the fact that my center and surrounds are only able to reproduce frequencies down to 70Hz and 80Hz, respectively. Due to this fact, how badly do you think the dynamic range / clarity of these channels will be affected by feeding them 60-80Hz frequencies?

Setting the crossover at 80Hz would avoid this issue, however, I am a bit concerned about the 60-80Hz range coming only from the subwoofer. I read that the 60-80Hz range is only directional to the human ear when the source is within a close proximity to the listening space. I am not sure how far away the subwoofer has to be before that range would be safe to send to the subwoofer alone. In my theater the subwoofer is about 11-12 feet away from the primary listening positions. Do you think this is far enough away to warrant an 80Hz crossover setting?
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post #926 of 3004 Old 08-21-2007, 02:05 PM
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11-12 feet is more than far enough to remove the directionality. My sub is crossed at 80Hz, about 8 feet away, and I can't tell that the bass is coming from it.

There is no universally best setting with 60Hz vs. 80Hz. The "right" setting is the one that works best with your room, the placement of the speakers, and your subjective taste. Play some bassy music with it at 60Hz, and play the same song(s) again with 80Hz and see what you prefer.
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post #927 of 3004 Old 08-21-2007, 02:28 PM
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I'm thinking about picking up a pair of BA CR67 to go along with the Onkyo 605 receiver I am expecting to pick up this weekend.

Can anyone tell me how well these match? I'm a fan of BA speakers and plan to upgrade my small entertainment room with the receiver and bookshelf speakers as well as some other BA speakers (sub, center, & sats)

Onkyo 605 / Paradigm Titan / Paradigm CC Center / Paradigm ADP rear / HSU STF-1 / HD-A2 / 40gbPS3 / 360elite / Wii / PC
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post #928 of 3004 Old 08-21-2007, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

11-12 feet is more than far enough to remove the directionality. My sub is crossed at 80Hz, about 8 feet away, and I can't tell that the bass is coming from it.

There is no universally best setting with 60Hz vs. 80Hz. The "right" setting is the one that works best with your room, the placement of the speakers, and your subjective taste. Play some bassy music with it at 60Hz, and play the same song(s) again with 80Hz and see what you prefer.

Thanks hdmi4ever. I will try both and see what works best. I will most likely prefer an 80Hz crossover now that I know the directionality is negligible for the 60-80Hz frequencies at my listening distance.

Now I only have one more decision to make before my new speaker system is ready to launch. How to mount my surrounds.

My theater is in an unfinished basement and the only walls are cement and about 20 feet away on each side. I do have full access to the studs on the ceiling and could easily mount my VRX speakers on the bottom edge of the studs, facing directly down. The bottom of the studs are approximately 5 feet above my listener's ears. Since the drivers would be aimed towards the center of the soundstage I think it will sound just right.

Does anyone think this is a good/bad idea?
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post #929 of 3004 Old 08-21-2007, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cuco33 View Post

I'm thinking about picking up a pair of BA CR67 to go along with the Onkyo 605 receiver I am expecting to pick up this weekend.

Can anyone tell me how well these match? I'm a fan of BA speakers and plan to upgrade my small entertainment room with the receiver and bookshelf speakers as well as some other BA speakers (sub, center, & sats)

I just got the CR67's last week. Circuit City had them on sale for about $50 less then their website sale price. I also picked up the VRC center speaker(also cheaper in store). I just got my Sony STR-DG810 Receiver today from Amazon. I will let you know how they sound once I get them hooked up, hopefully tomorrow.

I have a question on the center speaker placement. The diagram/picture in my Sony manual shows a center speaker on the bottom shelf of a TV stand. I would like to put my VRC there too, so I can put my Comcast box, Sony DG 810, and Toshiba HD A2 on the middle shelf. This would put the center speaker about 2 feet below the CR67's and HDTV set. Will this placement get me the best sound from my speakers?

Thanks!

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post #930 of 3004 Old 08-21-2007, 09:15 PM
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This would put the center speaker about 2 feet below the CR67's and HDTV set. Will this placement get me the best sound from my speakers?

You will only get the best sound from a center channel if the tweeter is at the height of your ears. At a minimum, the tweeter has to at least be aimed towards your ears. You could use some rubber door stops or something similar to prop up the front of the speaker so the tweeters fire towards your ears.

Keeping the center channel as close to your display as possible will provide a more realistic experience. You may notice a separation between the video and audio if the speaker is too far from the display. It would sound like voices were coming out of the floor.
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