Energy Owners Thread - Page 1259 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:16 AM
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Hi you guys,

Since your recent recommendation for the Denon AVR4311CI, I've been looking around at that thread, and the pricing. Right now Electronics Expo (authorized dealer) has an [some?] open-box 4311 priced very low. I called them just now, and according to their [lackluster] phone support employee, an open box item would also come with the full 3-year warranty...
...oddly, before that I had emailed them last night, and even though it was a SALES inquiry, they sent me a, "we're sorry you do not like your product -- we will issue you an RMA within the next few days..." ?????

So while their email / phone support doesn't seem stellar, if it comes with the manufacturers warranty (which it sounds like it does), would this seem a valid purchase path to jump on before it's gone? I partially can't believe I'd spend this much on a receiver...but if it will make that much of a different -- it'd be money well spent in fully-realizing my speakers' potential, I would think.

Do let me know -- want to jump on this if it's time-sensitive and you think it's worthwhile! :O
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Yeah, it's worth mentioning that the speakers I'm saying outclass the RC-10 are more considerably more expensive at retail pricing.
...
If it weren't for those deals, neither the VS260 or Three would've ever made it to my house.

Where did you cross your RC-10s over?

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

Hi Guys,
I have an offer to buy a pair of Energy Veritas bookshelf speakers, but the seller is not sure if they are the version 2.2 or 2.2i. All the seller can tell from the back of the rear surround speaker he has along with these are the words V2.0VCR-1 on it and also the words V2.0RCB-1 on one of the other speakers. I am hoping you energy experts out here can identify if these are from the improved driver version "i" series or the older series. I have also attached pictures of the speakers, so you might be able to identify it that way, if needed. I really appreciate your help.

Thanks in advance.

Can't tell from those pics. Do not sound like they are the "i" versions as the model sticker in the back includes "i". Did you make a mistake typing those model numbers as neither seem to.denote the 2.2 model.

Also, if you look at the grilles, if they are perfectly smooth, they are likely "i" versions.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnb4467 View Post

Hi you guys,

Since your recent recommendation for the Denon AVR4311CI, I've been looking around at that thread, and the pricing. Right now Electronics Expo (authorized dealer) has an [some?] open-box 4311 priced very low. I called them just now, and according to their [lackluster] phone support employee, an open box item would also come with the full 3-year warranty...
...oddly, before that I had emailed them last night, and even though it was a SALES inquiry, they sent me a, "we're sorry you do not like your product -- we will issue you an RMA within the next few days..." ?????

So while their email / phone support doesn't seem stellar, if it comes with the manufacturers warranty (which it sounds like it does), would this seem a valid purchase path to jump on before it's gone? I partially can't believe I'd spend this much on a receiver...but if it will make that much of a different -- it'd be money well spent in fully-realizing my speakers' potential, I would think.

Do let me know -- want to jump on this if it's time-sensitive and you think it's worthwhile! :O

I haven't used Electronics Expo myself, but I did buy a refurbished Denon 3808CI from Dakmart, in 2008. I have no regrets and the receiver is still working the way it is supposed to.
I say Go For It!!

Here are some older manuals from Energy
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/scjuc30ylshsa5n/CaqhZ-nx9A
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

Hi Guys,
I have an offer to buy a pair of Energy Veritas bookshelf speakers, but the seller is not sure if they are the version 2.2 or 2.2i. All the seller can tell from the back of the rear surround speaker he has along with these are the words V2.0VCR-1 on it and also the words V2.0RCB-1 on one of the other speakers. I am hoping you energy experts out here can identify if these are from the improved driver version "i" series or the older series. I have also attached pictures of the speakers, so you might be able to identify it that way, if needed. I really appreciate your help.

Thanks in advance.

The 'i' upgrade could have been done after the initial purchase, but as torht already mentioned, it is impossible for us to tell with those pictures.

Here are some older manuals from Energy
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/scjuc30ylshsa5n/CaqhZ-nx9A
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by automaton View Post


That's big. Still trying to decide and I wasn't ready to pull the trigger yesterday. My 50s are still in mint condition, and I really don't have room for them anywhere else (RC-10s in my home office, Pioneer BS-41 in my bedroom), so basically comes down to how easily I could move them.

What color 50s...if you buy 70s id gladly take the 50s off your shoulders

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

Hi Guys,
I have an offer to buy a pair of Energy Veritas bookshelf speakers, but the seller is not sure if they are the version 2.2 or 2.2i. All the seller can tell from the back of the rear surround speaker he has along with these are the words V2.0VCR-1 on it and also the words V2.0RCB-1 on one of the other speakers. I am hoping you energy experts out here can identify if these are from the improved driver version "i" series or the older series. I have also attached pictures of the speakers, so you might be able to identify it that way, if needed. I really appreciate your help.

Thanks in advance.

As noted above, multiple photos of the fronts of the speakers are useless as they are externally identical (except for the grills possibly).

I do think it's likely though that they are non "i" considering the black plastic laminate on the side is separating. This is a known flaw of the black gloss versions and is indicative of a slightly older speaker... not proof, just some casual evidence.

The only way to *really* know is the pop out the woofer and examine it. If you know what you are looking for it will be obvious.

How much are you paying for these? It also sounds like there are a pair of the Veritas surrounds too (V2.0R)?

FYI - on a related note, I do have a spare Veritas woofer (bought as a "backup" when I had the V2.1's) if anyone with a non-"i" Veritas is looking for one....

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Old 03-06-2012, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by johnb4467 View Post

Hi you guys,

Since your recent recommendation for the Denon AVR4311CI, I've been looking around at that thread, and the pricing. Right now Electronics Expo (authorized dealer) has an [some?] open-box 4311 priced very low. I called them just now, and according to their [lackluster] phone support employee, an open box item would also come with the full 3-year warranty...
...oddly, before that I had emailed them last night, and even though it was a SALES inquiry, they sent me a, "we're sorry you do not like your product -- we will issue you an RMA within the next few days..." ?????

So while their email / phone support doesn't seem stellar, if it comes with the manufacturers warranty (which it sounds like it does), would this seem a valid purchase path to jump on before it's gone? I partially can't believe I'd spend this much on a receiver...but if it will make that much of a different -- it'd be money well spent in fully-realizing my speakers' potential, I would think.

Do let me know -- want to jump on this if it's time-sensitive and you think it's worthwhile! :O

First off, buying open box is a great idea as you absolutely do get full factory warranty if bought from an authorized dealer.

That said, be aware that people have been buying 4311's for $1200-1300 brand new shipped lately. So depending on what price Electronics-Expo is offering it may or may not be a good deal. EE is one of the biggest Denon vendors and they will work with price. If you haven't yet, go read through the last few weeks worth of posts on the 4311 thread and you will find many people who have purchased recently. You could use those people who are buying them for $1250ish new as a bargaining point with EE.

The 4311 is a whole 'nuther world of receiver from your old Onkyo.

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Old 03-06-2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Well there's that, but also when all those steps pile up, it's hard to tell what's going on. For example, I just remembered I had turned off DRC a week ago (just as a test). I was wondering why I wasn't seeing DialNorm notices on the display. Now I must remember to put it back on since it really helped normalizing ad volume.

Also I watched a movie this weekend and was underwhelmed by the bass. But I also remembered I had activated DRC in the PS3.

yeah, this is a problem, but it's another reason why it's good to have a processor that can do *everything* so you can just disable any such modifications in the source (e.g. many Blu-ray players have their own DRC or "dialogue lift" settings) and just know that you are controlling it at the processor/receiver.

it does though add another element of confusion for the poor consumer. There is so much redundant processing (be it audio or video) among the chain of components that it's easy to accidentally leave some setting enabled and get diminished quality as a result.

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Old 03-06-2012, 11:00 AM
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$750 for what exactly? just the two V2.2's or also the V2.0R surrounds? does it include the stands? anything else?

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Old 03-06-2012, 11:04 AM
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CF-70 going as deal of the day for $229 Shipped.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/de...i_c=DOD-banner
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Where did you cross your RC-10s over?

Ran them full range, then 60Hz xover with ports open, then 80Hz xover with ports plugged...

Classic Three was level matched and run the same - full range, 60Hz, 80Hz xover.

So the playing field was about as level as I could make it. I didn't go to the extent of alternating placement and stands (like I will do with the Three vs VS260)... but just didn't feel the need to for this comparison.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

750 for just the book shelfs. 850 including the stands.
Does the MDF seperation effect sound quality?

Hate to say it but they are not worth the price, especially with (1) the uncertainty about whether they are "i" series or not and (2) the physical blemish with the laminate separation.

FYI - it is NOT "MDF separation", the MDF is the material used to create the cabinet. That black glossy part is just a sheet of laminate that is glued onto the wood sides, so it's just cosmetic.

if they were confirmed "i" series and in perfect cosmetic condition then $750-800ish is a fair price with the stands IMO. But considering the above 2 points I wouldn't pay more than $500.

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Old 03-06-2012, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

750 for just the book shelfs. 850 including the stands.
Does the MDF seperation effect sound quality?

No, but it is a great bargaining point to get him to lower his price....

Also, If you have photos of them with their grills on, we may be able to tell if they were originally the non "i" or the "i" versions....
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Ran them full range, then 60Hz xover with ports open, then 80Hz xover with ports plugged...

Classic Three was level matched and run the same - full range, 60Hz, 80Hz xover.

So the playing field was about as level as I could make it. I didn't go to the extent of alternating placement and stands (like I will do with the Three vs VS260)... but just didn't feel the need to for this comparison.

The direct comparison was really to ensure I wasn't just "wanting" to like the Three better because it's supposed to be the better speaker. I wanted to give the RC-10 a fair shake... but my opinion did not change after the comparison. I like the RC-10 alot, I just like the Three better.

the Classic Three is one of the speakers I've always lusted after, along with the Ascend Sierra-1. The one thing that bothers my about the RC-10's is the "thickness" that we have discussed, where it can feel a bit "congested" with busy / complex music.

after having the V2.1's, I know it is possible to keep all the stuff I love about the RC-10's (buttery smoothness, lack of glare or harshness, clean detail without fatiguing brightness, a rich warmth which keeps thing from sounding brittle) but take it to the next level in terms of transparency, detail and soundstage. Floorstanders are nowhere in my future so it would be nice to find a pair of nicer bookshelf monitors which achieve those goals, but I'm just not in a place right now to be doubling my investment on the Classic Three or Sierras especially considering I have a matched set with rosenut RC-LCR and RC-Mini's...

plus my wife friggin' loves the aesthetics of the rosenut RC's. This is like the reverse problem with WAF.... the rosenut RC's are so attractive they limit my upgrade ability!

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Old 03-06-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

Its a small picture of them with the grills, but hopefully this helps.

They appear to have the "pronounced" driver protrusions on the grill, which would indeed make them the older "non- i" versions. Another bargaining chip for a lower price!
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the Classic Three is one of the speakers I've always lusted after, along with the Ascend Sierra-1. The one thing that bothers my about the RC-10's is the "thickness" that we have discussed, where it can feel a bit "congested" with busy / complex music.

after having the V2.1's, I know it is possible to keep all the stuff I love about the RC-10's (buttery smoothness, lack of glare or harshness, clean detail without fatiguing brightness, a rich warmth which keeps thing from sounding brittle) but take it to the next level in terms of transparency, detail and soundstage. Floorstanders are nowhere in my future so it would be nice to find a pair of nicer bookshelf monitors which achieve those goals, but I'm just not in a place right now to be doubling my investment on the Classic Three or Sierras especially considering I have a matched set with rosenut RC-LCR and RC-Mini's...

plus my wife friggin' loves the aesthetics of the rosenut RC's. This is like the reverse problem with WAF.... the rosenut RC's are so attractive they limit my upgrade ability!

I wouldn't have doubled my investment to upgrade the RC's either. If you remember, I had the Sierra's once, but sold them because I couldn't justify keeping at about $325 more (for 3 of them, used) than I spent on the RC-10's/LCR.

In this case, I still had a used Classic TwoC that I'd been using in my bedroom along with a pair of Absolute Zero's I bought last year... so when the deal on the Three's came along, and I already had the gift card, it was a no brainer for me. My total cost was just a bit more than what I paid for the RC's.

At some point you should at least give the Three's a listen. I think they really do improve on all of what I would call the shortcomings of the RC-10. The soundstage is wider/taller. With the RC-10, the sound is very centrally anchored, and it seems confined between the speakers, whereas sound from the Three's extends beyond the speakers. The Three has as little low end warmth, but to me, is more neutral and doesn't have the thickness the RC-10. It also has better separation of instruments, so it handles busier passage better.

But, I'm with you on the aesthetics. The rosenut is just awesome, and both my girlfriend and I like it alot better than gloss black. Fortunately, she hasn't fought me too much on getting rid of them, although she has commented a few times on how she misses that look. Funny too, because she hated the RC-10 at first - the rosenut was too clean and modern, and the brushed aluminum was way to modern.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

Thanks deano and batpig. That helps a lot. Going by the 2.2 release year of 2000 and 2.2i release year of 2004, it would put these speakers any where from 8 - 12 years old. Given the seperation of the lamination and the average 10 year old life of these speakers, iam not sure if I really want to buy them even for $500. Am I wrong in thinking so? Whats the best price at which I can consider them if at all?

I don't believe the speakers actually have a shelf life like you mentioned. A pair of the V2.2i's should last decades if you take care of them. The primary issue with your potential purchase is the fact that you can't confirm they have had the "i" fix. The non-"i" series have a tendency for woofer failure. That is why batpig suggested checking the woofer explicitly. I wouldn't purchase them unless I knew they either have had the fix or you are comfortable with locating the veritas woofers and replacing them yourself.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:31 PM
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I will note that the woofer replacement is VERY easy. Basically just unscrew the bolt on the back of the speaker and the woofer pops right out.

I have seen a few Veritas woofers on ebay recently, and as I mentioned I have a spare as well that hopefully will go to a good home eventually and help someone on this thread.

that said, the uncertainty needs to be factored into the cost of the used product. I would happily buy them if you can get them for around $500 or less, but no more than that if they aren't confirmed "i" series and when you factor in the laminate separation.

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Old 03-06-2012, 03:53 PM
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For use as the L and R, would I notice much of a difference between using the Take Classic satellites compared to using two RC-Micro centers. For the center I will use either the RC-Micro center or the Take Classic Center (if I can get that to fit). For the rears, I will use the RC-Micro satellites (because of space limitations). I read that the RC-Micro have a more refined sound, but the Take Classic has a slightly bigger driver and cabinet, so it might sound fuller. Thanks
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:08 PM
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Well I had been lurking over at the Denon 4311 thread -- and finally can put the receiver purchasing situation to rest. The open-box 4311 that I mentioned was nicely priced (still available on website), but they are supposedly unable to lower open-box-priced items.
So, the guy asked his manager & sold me a new-in-box 4311 for ~$30 more.
Not the ABSOLUTE cheapest that batpig mentioned, but within that bracket of $1,200 to $1,300 (I'd just say the price, but I don't know if I'm allowed to say that here?).

Batpig, you have saved me...and cost me...quite a bit of money over the years!
Saved, as in I've gotten great deals.
Cost, as in that I've kept buying! :O
Hank, thank you for the "thumbs up" as well.

I'll be looking forward to running the Audyssey XT32 on my room, and to see how much they open up my Audissey APS 5+2's and the C-8's -- at this point, I'm drawing the line and saying an amp is out of the question....but as some of you have pointed out, many don't feel it necessary with this receiver, and I'm hoping that will be the same case here.

Batpig, a quick question for you: Now that I'm running true Audyssey (as opposed to the Yamaha implementation of room correction), do you think it smarter for me to hook up the APS 5+2's to the 4311 via the sub-outs, or should I still just use the speaker-level inputs & set them to full-range, and let the Audyssey do its thing from there?
Will the bipolar design of the Audissey speakers cause any issues aside from the phase detection portion?

Excited to geek out (though my pocket doesn't thank me...!).
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by johnb4467 View Post

Well I had been lurking over at the Denon 4311 thread -- and finally can put the receiver purchasing situation to rest. The open-box 4311 that I mentioned was nicely priced (still available on website), but they are supposedly unable to lower open-box-priced items.
So, the guy asked his manager & sold me a new-in-box 4311 for ~$30 more.
Not the ABSOLUTE cheapest that batpig mentioned, but within that bracket of $1,200 to $1,300 (I'd just say the price, but I don't know if I'm allowed to say that here?).

......

You will love the 4311. As I mentioned in my post before, the difference between 4311 and my amp for the C-8's are not as large as the difference was for my veritas. I think you will hear a huge improvement over your existing receiver. You got a great price for it. As a lot of people have paid quite a bit more for it and still say it is probably the best receiver out there for the price. Maybe one of these days when you are ready to go 11.2, you will buy an amp and compare it for yourself.
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by johnb4467 View Post

Well I had been lurking over at the Denon 4311 thread -- and finally can put the receiver purchasing situation to rest. The open-box 4311 that I mentioned was nicely priced (still available on website), but they are supposedly unable to lower open-box-priced items.
So, the guy asked his manager & sold me a new-in-box 4311 for ~$30 more.

congrats! I love spending (and saving) other people's money

can't wait to hear your feedback on the difference XT32 and Dynamic EQ make for you.

a word of advice: remember to study up while you are waiting for your new toy, start with the Audyssey section of my FAQ and read a lot of the links I provide. Understanding how Audysey works and getting a good calibration the first time can get you off on the right foot more quickly.

and you will probably want to learn a bit of "Denon-ese" before you start


Quote:


Batpig, a quick question for you: Now that I'm running true Audyssey (as opposed to the Yamaha implementation of room correction), do you think it smarter for me to hook up the APS 5+2's to the 4311 via the sub-outs, or should I still just use the speaker-level inputs & set them to full-range, and let the Audyssey do its thing from there?

You may have to experiment, but since you do have a nice external sub, what I would do is leave it hooked up as-is and let the subwoofer be the "sub channel" and the APS 5+2's operate as front L/R. Honestly, I would still probably recommend setting them to "small" even if you use the lowest possible 40Hz crossover. The 5+2's have the powered subs but I doubt they can power that lower octave (20-40Hz) like your 12" sub can.

That way, the dedicted sub gets ALL of the super low bass, whereas the 5+2's still play basically "full range" with just the lowest-of-the-low getting rerouted to the SW.

Quote:


Will the bipolar design of the Audissey speakers cause any issues aside from the phase detection portion?

nope, Audyssey doesn't care what type of speaker it is. Although as you note you might get a phase error.

Enjoy your new toy!

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Old 03-06-2012, 05:52 PM
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just ordered the rc 70 'package' from vanns , I have the klipsch wf-34 system, I don't know if this will be a upgrade or side grade :0 , but I'm hoping it'll sound better with music as the wf-34's just didn't have enough for music . The Energy speakers should be here on Thur..
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post


Ran them full range, then 60Hz xover with ports open, then 80Hz xover with ports plugged...

Classic Three was level matched and run the same - full range, 60Hz, 80Hz xover.

So the playing field was about as level as I could make it. I didn't go to the extent of alternating placement and stands (like I will do with the Three vs VS260)... but just didn't feel the need to for this comparison.

Thanks. I've been doing informal comparisons between my 10s, 50s and 70s (in different rooms! with different electronics and different subs, NOT level matched! oh, the humanity) and I'm curious about the limits imposed (if any) by a traditional 2-way design. I notice that my RC-10s shed that hoarse midrange when I cross them over at 100Hz, but then they lose the upper bass that makes them sound complete as mains. As if it's hard to have your cake and eat it too, with a two-way crossover, small cone and small enclosure.

Anyway I'd love to hear the Classic Three and the Sierra-1. I'm done buying loudspeakers but I'm just curious now.

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:21 PM
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Has anyone compared the Veritas to the RC-10s? How much smoother are the Veritas compared to the RC-10s? If they are worth the upgrade, I have a set of immaculate RC-10 cherry to sell.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:30 PM
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I have cherry RC-10s and I have no interest in going to the V5.1.

There are some reviews many pages back. Veritas has a brighter tweeter, the glossy black and rosenut finishes are nicer than the RC-10 black ash. But since you have cherry you've already got nice looking speakers.

From what I gathered, it is more a listener preference than anything. Not a clear cut upgrade.

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Old 03-06-2012, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by pavment View Post

Has anyone compared the Veritas to the RC-10s? How much smoother are the Veritas compared to the RC-10s? If they are worth the upgrade, I have a set of immaculate RC-10 cherry to sell.

I assume you mean the V5.1's? I think the consensus seems to be the veritas are slightly brighter in sound and much nicer in terms of build quality.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:38 PM
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@torht:Thanks. The RC-10 Cherry pair I have are quite beautiful to look at so not sure how much the build quality can improve. If you do mean brighter for the veritas, is it at the expense of treble smoothness ie more sibilance?
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:01 PM
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@torht:Thanks. The RC-10 Cherry pair I have are quite beautiful to look at so not sure how much the build quality can improve. If you do mean brighter for the veritas, is it at the expense of treble smoothness ie more sibilance?

As afrogt mentioned, the difference might be subtle and therefore more of a personal preference thing. However, if you search for sibilance, there was a discussion about that recently (maybe a few weeks ago). One of posters talked about his modifications to the V6.3's to try to alleviate sibilance.
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