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post #38071 of 52433 Old 03-19-2012, 07:30 PM
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I currently own RC-10s and have used them on speaker stands as surrounds (V6.3s up front, V5.2C in center, and CR-10s rear, with Denon 3312CI). We recently moved and our new family room is narrower...~ 20' long x 15' wide...and my wife would like me to ditch the speakers stands on the RC-10s since they take up space and don't match the decor.

I'm contemplating either finding wall-mounts for the RC-10s or just moving them to the bedroom and getting the V-Minis (in rosenut) to use as surrounds. Thoughts?

What options are there for wall-mounts for the RC-10s? I can't find the Macromounts anywhere online (in black) and the OmniMounts have mixed reviews. Any others?

For HT, do you think there would be much difference? I think the RC-10s might be a bit bulky to wall-mount for my situation, but I certainly do enjoy how they sound. What are people's impression of the V-Mini, especially for surrounds?
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post #38072 of 52433 Old 03-19-2012, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Oddly, the pronunciation is similar to the English word, "shoe."

LOL. So I'm gonna get a really big HSU :-)
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post #38073 of 52433 Old 03-19-2012, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsomuni View Post

I currently own RC-10s and have used them on speaker stands as surrounds (V6.3s up front, V5.2C in center, and CR-10s rear, with Denon 3312CI). We recently moved and our new family room is narrower...~ 20' long x 15' wide...and my wife would like me to ditch the speakers stands on the RC-10s since they take up space and don't match the decor.

I'm contemplating either finding wall-mounts for the RC-10s or just moving them to the bedroom and getting the V-Minis (in rosenut) to use as surrounds. Thoughts?

What options are there for wall-mounts for the RC-10s? I can't find the Macromounts anywhere online (in black) and the OmniMounts have mixed reviews. Any others?

For HT, do you think there would be much difference? I think the RC-10s might be a bit bulky to wall-mount for my situation, but I certainly do enjoy how they sound. What are people's impression of the V-Mini, especially for surrounds?


I am using the mount from monoprice but it will require some wood working

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post21459927
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post #38074 of 52433 Old 03-19-2012, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsomuni View Post

I currently own RC-10s and have used them on speaker stands as surrounds (V6.3s up front, V5.2C in center, and CR-10s rear, with Denon 3312CI). We recently moved and our new family room is narrower...~ 20' long x 15' wide...and my wife would like me to ditch the speakers stands on the RC-10s since they take up space and don't match the decor.

I'm contemplating either finding wall-mounts for the RC-10s or just moving them to the bedroom and getting the V-Minis (in rosenut) to use as surrounds. Thoughts?

Why would you not simply mount the CR-10s that you already own?

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
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post #38075 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 12:55 AM
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SaviorMachine - Way to go on snagging those cherry RC-70's. I wanted so bad to pre-order those from Vann's but just didn't want to take the chance that they would never come in. Soooo...I snagged a black RC-70 from their returns that didn't mention any damage for 399. Next Day I checked back to see if they had any more and saw that the new ones were 399. They gave me 70 off of the one in transit so I ordered a new one at 399. Well...the first came with damage that looked like it was that way when it was packed. It was double-boxed (just like the new one) but had a bad dent in the rear so I sent it back and got another new one coming. Problem is I now have 2 RC-10's, 2 RC-Mini's, an RC-Mini CC, and an RC-LCR all in cherry but 2 HUGE sore thumbs out front.

Oh well. They sound awesome, especially for the price, and I can now stop buying speakers. If only you guys would stop bringing up the Veritas 1.8's!
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post #38076 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 03:56 AM
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^^Fears: Tricky assembling an all-cherry set, since they haven't all been available at the same time, for a long time. I expect that we will probably see another round of cherries, same as we saw a small number of rosenuts before Vann's had that batch of rosenuts available last December.
Good luck!

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #38077 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Why would you not simply mount the CR-10s that you already own?

I will mount the CR-10s as Surround Back L/R. The RC-10s (or possibly V-Minis, if I decide to buy them) will be Surround L/R. It will be a 7.0 setup until I get a sub.
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post #38078 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 05:53 AM
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@scotcomuni - Here's another option for you:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ofDJTvi...rgy-RC-6C.html

They were on sale for $49/each from Tiger Direct as little as a week (or so) ago, but it looks like they are now out of stock there. They are well-built speakers and should be very comparable with the RC-10s for surround duties. They come with a grill that you can paint to match your wall, so WAF should not be a problem.

Edit: I would also suggest you try to mount the CR-10s as "surround L/R" and whatever other speaker(s) you decide on as "surround back L/R".
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post #38079 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsomuni View Post

I will mount the CR-10s as Surround Back L/R. The RC-10s (or possibly V-Minis, if I decide to buy them) will be Surround L/R. It will be a 7.0 setup until I get a sub.

Get the Omnimount 20.0s . They work great when installed properly into a wall stud. I have a pair of the wall mounts holding my RC-10 wides at the same height as my RC-70 fronts and a pair of the ceiling type mounts for my RC-10 heights. You can install them by yourself. But, it is definitely helpful to have someone hold the RC-10 in place while you tighten down the clamp; especially if you are picky about the exact angle you want them to be at. The negative reviews about them are from idiots who probably installed the clamp upside-down or just couldn't read instructions....

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search
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post #38080 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Gonna use 3 pieces of wood to raise the tv 3 inches. Already used my htpc to see how movies would like 3 inches higher and was fine with it

Looks good, Kevin - same approach, mine was lazier, just assembled the thing.
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post #38081 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

Looks good, Kevin - same approach, mine was lazier, just assembled the thing.

After reading what you two did, I'm starting to think that my boxed up wall mount is about the right height... Maybe I'll just paint it black and stick it under the TV as-is. Haha..
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post #38082 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jjl4004 View Post


Edit: I would also suggest you try to mount the CR-10s as "surround L/R" and whatever other speaker(s) you decide on as "surround back L/R".

Thanks. Can you explain to me why the CR-10s would be better as "surround L/R" than "surround back L/R"?

My setup has my couch up against the back wall...I figured the CR-10s sitting flush to the wall would be best...but I'm no expert.
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post #38083 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deano86 View Post

Get the Omnimount 20.0s . They work great when installed properly into a wall stud. I have a pair of the wall mounts holding my RC-10 wides at the same height as my RC-70 fronts and a pair of the ceiling type mounts for my RC-10 heights. You can install them by yourself. But, it is definitely helpful to have someone hold the RC-10 in place while you tighten down the clamp; especially if you are picky about the exact angle you want them to be at. The negative reviews about them are from idiots who probably installed the clamp upside-down or just couldn't read instructions....

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

Thanks. Glad to hear you have had a positive experience with these mounts. My concern with them is more around the ball socket being able to hold tight once I have the oriented properly...any issues with this?

Also - any recommendation / rule-of-thumb on how high to mount these on the wall with RC-10s?
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post #38084 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsomuni View Post

Thanks. Can you explain to me why the CR-10s would be better as "surround L/R" than "surround back L/R"?

My setup has my couch up against the back wall...I figured the CR-10s sitting flush to the wall would be best...but I'm no expert.

If your couch is up against the back wall you shouldn't even try to do 7.1. Stay with 5.1 and put the CR-10s on each side of main listening area if you can.

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post #38085 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 07:38 AM
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I'm with afrogt in saying stick with 5.1 or going with 7.1 Heights... I have a couch-against-back-wall setup and use CR-10s as rears and use 7.1 Heights

For those looking into getting Energy speakers, or upgrading their current Energy setup, here are some reviews I've written that may help:
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  (haven't updated in a while, but include Energy Take Classic 5.1, RC-10, CF-70, and CC-10)

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post #38086 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 07:47 AM
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thanks all for quick responses...this groups is great. I'm relatively new to this and could use some more explanation...specifically:

1) why would 5.1 be better than 7.1 given my couch setup against the back wall?
2) what do you mean by "7.1 heights"?
3) why would CR-10s be better as "surround L/R" than "surround back L/R"?
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post #38087 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan__ View Post

Yes, if I understand it, the older Veritas have better bass impact than the RC-70s, though, they're no slouch. In my room upstairs, I need to plug the ports to avoid muddiness, and I just feel like the mid-bass (probably) needs some more impact. Of course, my electronics are probably not up to snuff at the moment (30 year old Vector Research receiver), and the room has it's issues.

Yes, you're correct, plus they do everything much better overall.

I plug a lot of the ports on my RC speakers. Tighter and better defined bass is the result that I got, so the plugs stay in. I personally haven't noticed anything that is blatantly lacking in the mids on the RC-70s. I'm not sure what your expectations or desires are, but the 70s are fantastic speakers, especially at the current prices. Maybe your receiver is part of the problem, does it have a mid adjustment knob by chance? Had to ask, might as well start simple.

I have played around with some old Vector Research gear (I can't recall the model numbers though) and I thought it was quite good. I thought the sound and the build quality was very good. From what I found, they used some of the same components that NAD and Rotel used. Also, NEC used the same components and I am a fan of those underrated receivers as well. They all made some really good gear in my opinion, if the right models were bought of course.

Here are some older manuals from Energy

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post #38088 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsomuni View Post

1) why would 5.1 be better than 7.1 given my couch setup against the back wall?

I think that would be because if you sit right under the surround backs as you probably do since your couch is back on a wall, then the sound emitted from your surround back speakers will likely reach you only after being reflected from the side or front walls, thus not really coming from behind. Normally it would be best to leave some distance between the listener and the back speakers.

However you're in the best position to judge this. I'd say try a surround test tracks -- either a test blu-ray or anything with sound that would move around the listening position. Could be also your receiver's calibration tones, or if you can plug in the digital out of a PC, you could test each speaker individually. Or pop in a first-person video game, and turn around in-place to move the sound stage. If your rear speakers don't sound as if they're behind you, then I guess you should try something else.

I'm roughly in the same situation, but my couch is backed on a bay-window, so I can't even hang speakers behind the couch. My setup is very unorthodox but I tried placing bookshelf speakers on the floor behind my couch, facing up, and I think it works really well. The sound is slightly muffled and quite diffuse, which is not bad for surround speakers. So one thing you might want to try is place the RC-10 or any other bookshelves behind the couch facing up (so you'd have to bring the couch about 1' forward) and place the CR-10 on the sides.

Quote:


2) what do you mean by "7.1 heights"?

That means using a pair of speakers above the front mains if your receiver supports this configuration. They won't play a dedicated channel but the receiver will build up the front height content from the other channels. You can also use another pair for front wides in the same fashion.

Quote:


3) why would CR-10s be better as "surround L/R" than "surround back L/R"?

Not really -- it's just their position that may be suboptimal.

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post #38089 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 09:47 AM
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@Neutro - thanks for your detailed response. I have used the CR-10s in my last place as Surround Back L/R and my RC-10s as Surrounds L/R, so I just assumed I would do the same now that I have moved. Unfortunately, given my room arrangement, my couch has to go right up against the back wall.

Although I could mount the RC-10s as surround on either side of the couch, it would be crammed (at least from my wife's perspective). Ultimately I would like to get four (4) V-Minis in Rosenut (to match the front 3 - V6.3s and V5.2C) and use them for the Front Heights and Surrounds. I would move the black RC-10 and CR-10 to the bedroom. I see that Audyssey recommends "wides before heights" but my family room geometry does really work out for wides. A few other questions:

1) What are people's experience with front heights? Have you noticed much of a difference over just a 5.1 for HT?

2) Since I have the CR-10s and RC-10s already in a 7.0 setup, does it make sense to move to a 5.0 system...that is, will having them negatively impact surround sound? Or will I just not be really utilizing them enough in the space to warrant having them and they would be better moved to another room?

3) what are people's impression of the V-Minis for surrounds and/or front heights? Can they also be used as rears?

4) are their any coupon codes / deal for Vanns going on now if I were to buy the V-Minis?

Thanks!
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post #38090 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 09:54 AM
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The V-Mini's can be used as surrounds, surround backs or height speakers. The beauty is that they come with wall mount brackets. I have RC Mini's as surrounds which are essentially the same thing.

Afro GT
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post #38091 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsomuni View Post

Thanks. Glad to hear you have had a positive experience with these mounts. My concern with them is more around the ball socket being able to hold tight once I have the oriented properly...any issues with this?

Also - any recommendation / rule-of-thumb on how high to mount these on the wall with RC-10s?

They are quite heavy duty and are rated to hold 20 pounds(thus the 20.0 designation) of which the RC-10s are around 12 pounds each. What you want to do is have the speakers angled just slightly higher than your final position; as you tighten the clamp around the ball. Then when you let go of the speaker, you will compensate for the slight sag that occurrs initially as the clamp fully "bites" into the ball. Yeessh! that sounds painful!

As far as mounting height, it is really up to you and your room. A rule of thumb for movie surround use is to put them a couple feet above normal listening(head) level.
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post #38092 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 10:20 AM
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I have the CR-10s above my couch just to the sides of my main listening areas (they're about 10 feet apart) and they bottom of the speaker is about a foot and a half above my ears when sitting in the couch. I really like how the woofer is angled down in this against-the-wall-setup.

For those looking into getting Energy speakers, or upgrading their current Energy setup, here are some reviews I've written that may help:
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  (haven't updated in a while, but include Energy Take Classic 5.1, RC-10, CF-70, and CC-10)

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post #38093 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsomuni View Post

Thanks. Can you explain to me why the CR-10s would be better as "surround L/R" than "surround back L/R"?

My setup has my couch up against the back wall...I figured the CR-10s sitting flush to the wall would be best...but I'm no expert.

here's the thing -- you specifically said you will have a longer, narrower room, that you (and/or wife) want to clear up space, and that you are concerned about the bulk of the RC10's hanging off the all.

thus, you have a perfect solution in the CR-10's, which as you know are designed to mount flush on a wall and are much lower profile than the RC-10's when mounted. Personally, unless it were a big room, I wouldn't want RC-10's hanging off the wall. Flush mount speakers like the CR-10's are much more suited to this purpose.

furthermore, in a narrower room, the bipole/dipole dispersion pattern of the CR-10 will make them "disappear" more into the surround field, as opposed the direct-firing RC-10's which may be a bit too close to the listening position if the room is narrow. Typically, people prefer to use these bipole/dipole type speakers as the side surrounds so you get more "coverage" to the sides, especially important in a long/narrow room.

that being said, you said you will have the couch against the back wall... does that mean your couch will be 20ft from the display in this room?? that is going to be a really awkward arrangement if so. And if you did do 7ch, where were you going to put the surrounds if the CR-10's were behind you? Would the surrounds be in front of you?

the point of everyone's suggestion is that it may be awkward to do traditional 7ch surround (surr + surr.back) with the couch against the back wall because you don't have space behind you. Mounting the CR-10's to the sides will create a nice surround field and you will get reflected sound off the walls/ceiling to give a "spacious" feeling to the mix.

since you have a Denon 3312, you have other options with Audyssey DSX and Dolby PLIIz. I would recommend trying other speaker configurations before traditional 7ch, unless you can scoot the couch forward so it's closer the display, in which case having CR-10 to the side and RC-10 in back would work nicely. You can also try neutro's suggestion of placing the RC-10 on the the floor behind the couch firing up.

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post #38094 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 12:17 PM
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Raising tv in preparation for the lcr
LL

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #38095 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsomuni View Post

Thanks. Can you explain to me why the CR-10s would be better as "surround L/R" than "surround back L/R"?

My setup has my couch up against the back wall...I figured the CR-10s sitting flush to the wall would be best...but I'm no expert.

It looks like I'm a little late (back) to the party. The reason I suggested that you use the CR-10s as surround L/R is because I think they'd be better served there (as opposed to surround backs) in your room. Batpig explained exactly what I was thinking when I suggested that you use the CR-10s that way in the third paragraph of his response above.

I agree with what some others have already saidif you have to keep the couch against the back wall, I'd stick with a traditional 5.1 setup (with CR-10s as surrounds) and if you wanted, add heights or wides up front.
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post #38096 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 01:04 PM
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thanks again everyone for all the great feedback...this forum is really a wealth of knowledge.

@BatPig - so if I mounted the CR-10s as side Surrounds L/R, should they be in dipole or bipole position?

The orientation of the room is awkward, which makes this setup a little tricky. I rechecked the measurements and it's actually 18 feet long x 14 feet wide...so a little less than what I estimated (20x15).

If I kept the CR-10s on the back wall, I would probably buy V-Minis for Surround L/R and mount them on the side walls in line with the couch...so no, they wouldn't be in front of me...they would be right in line with the couch but to the sides. I agree that the RC-10s are not well suited to be wall mounted in this room for surrounds. Or I could put the V-Minis on the back wall or front heights, and put the CR-10s on the L/R side wall. Any recommendations?

I think I'm leaning towards moving the CR-10s to Surround L/R and buying V-Minis for front heights and not having any on back wall...sound good?

Part of my thoughts here are that I'm redoing my family room and the walls and ceilings will be ripped down and I would like to get the wiring setup while it's gutted so they are hidden. So I'm trying to map out where I want speakers in the room...so if back surrounds aren't worth it with a couch up against the wall, I won't bother running wire.
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post #38097 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 03:24 PM
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regardless of what you do I recommend using your CR-10's for side surrounds, for all the reasons discussed above. If you want to go 7ch then I would probably get another pair of CR-10 for the back wall. Again, the non-direct dispersion and flush-mounting will make them very well suited for this role.

as a general rule, dipole will be more "diffuse" and bipole will be a more of a compromise between diffuse and direct sound. Really a preference thing.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
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post #38098 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 03:26 PM
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Got my rc lcr. Loving it already. Can't wait to break in

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #38099 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 03:29 PM
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:d
LL

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #38100 of 52433 Old 03-20-2012, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

:d

Looks great! Great movie to test it on too btw Yeah once that puppy is broken in, you'll love it much more than you do now.

For those looking into getting Energy speakers, or upgrading their current Energy setup, here are some reviews I've written that may help:
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  (haven't updated in a while, but include Energy Take Classic 5.1, RC-10, CF-70, and CC-10)

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