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post #38581 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 11:13 AM
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Thanks Hank for the info.

Ive got some stuff
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post #38582 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by baron2 View Post

Thanks Hank for the info.

You're welcome

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post #38583 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Hank Mardukous View Post


I'm not sure I totally understand what you mean but I have had mine out before to replace the tweeter. It was blown when I bought it. I believe that I unscrewed the screws and pryed the plastic piece around the metal grill off, and then the grill pops off when the sides are slightly squeezed or wiggled off. It was a few years ago that I did it. I do remember being worried about the force that I was using, but it ened up being fine. My memory is a little hazy on this though.

That's exactly it. I read somewhere that removing the metal grill can improve the sound, but I was also told that you have to be really careful as the magnet could pull the grill into the dome as you remove it eek!

Not sure I want to risk prying and pulling that thing open unless I have to, and they sound so great already =)
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post #38584 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jasonmichaelh View Post

That's exactly it. I read somewhere that removing the metal grill can improve the sound, but I was also told that you have to be really careful as the magnet could pull the grill into the dome as you remove it eek!

Not sure I want to risk prying and pulling that thing open unless I have to, and they sound so great already =)

I wouldn't doubt it, that tweeter has a bigger magnet than some midrange woofers use. It makes many other tweeter magnets look like a toy.
I would also be concerned about the whole module piece slipping out and going through the woofer, if you decide to take it apart. To me, that was the biggest scare. I personally like having the safety of the grilles and, like you, would be hesitant on taking them off for any sound benefit.
If you do risk it, please tell us what you find.

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post #38585 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic View Post

Listening to some soft music on my 50s. Anyone care to give me a recommendation for best soft instrumentals or vocals for the RCs? I'm listening to Jewel right now.

Bolling: Suite for Flute & Jazz Piano Trio - first and arguably the best jazz / classical combo cd. Great music.

I second Adele, in particular her

Adele Live At The Royal Albert Hall (Blu-ray/CD) is amazing on my RC-50's/RC-LCR/RC-10s/rc-minis (matrixed).

Diana Krall, pretty much anything, but I think her best live performance is:

Diana Krall - Live in Paris

Miles Davis, only two are fairly soft - Kind of Blue is one, my favorite:

Sketches of Spain

Do you have an SACD / DVD-A bluray? Music is incredible with these. Too bad the formats are moribund.

If I had to pick one for nice soft listening, though - Suite for Flute & Jazz Piano Trio would be my first pick.
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post #38586 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

Bolling: Suite for Flute & Jazz Piano Trio - first and arguably the best jazz / classical combo cd. Great music.

I second Adele, in particular her

Adele Live At The Royal Albert Hall (Blu-ray/CD) is amazing on my RC-50's/RC-LCR/RC-10s/rc-minis (matrixed).

Diana Krall, pretty much anything, but I think her best live performance is:

Diana Krall - Live in Paris

Miles Davis, only two are fairly soft - Kind of Blue is one, my favorite:

Sketches of Spain

Do you have an SACD / DVD-A bluray? Music is incredible with these. Too bad the formats are moribund.

If I had to pick one for nice soft listening, though - Suite for Flute & Jazz Piano Trio would be my first pick.

I have an SACD player but it's an older model with only stereo or optical outs. It's not hooked up yet, it's a behemoth (Sony 400 disc DVD changer) and too deep for my cabinets so I'm waiting til I find space to put it anywhere...might have to go on top of my wall unit maybe.
I'm guessing the SACD player with stereo RCA cables will still sound better than a regular CD player, right?

At this point I wish I hadn't sold my old backwards compatible PS3... Those had SACD AND hdmi.

For those looking into getting Energy speakers, or upgrading their current Energy setup, here are some reviews I've written that may help:
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  (haven't updated in a while, but include Energy Take Classic 5.1, RC-10, CF-70, and CC-10)

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post #38587 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baron2 View Post

Thats good to know, is vanns the only guys who have these rc-50 and 70 line? I thought these were discontinued?

Yes, the RC's were discontinued, but from the info we've gathered it seems Vanns entered into a special agreement with Audiovox to be the sole producer/distributor of a limited selection of RC speakers at heavy discounts vs. original msrp.

For quite some time they only had RC-70, RC-10, and RC-LCR, but a few months ago they added RC-50 back to the lineup.

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post #38588 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic View Post

I have an SACD player but it's an older model with only stereo or optical outs. It's not hooked up yet, it's a behemoth (Sony 400 disc DVD changer) and too deep for my cabinets so I'm waiting til I find space to put it anywhere...might have to go on top of my wall unit maybe.
I'm guessing the SACD player with stereo RCA cables will still sound better than a regular CD player, right?

At this point I wish I hadn't sold my old backwards compatible PS3... Those had SACD AND hdmi.


Stereo is fine, a lot of SACDs are stereo. I use an Oppo BDP-83.

BTW ... if I were to recommend an individual song for a good show of soft music on this, not SACD, just regular CD:

Grey Day by Jesse Colin Young, from the Lightshine CD. Really good song from a very good soft singer at the height of his creative powers.

Another excellent CD from a new artist (getting known now):

April Smith's Songs for a Sinking Ship has some great uptempo songs, but many good ballads as well... Beloved is a heart wrenching song.
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post #38589 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macstatic View Post

I have an SACD player but it's an older model with only stereo or optical outs. It's not hooked up yet, it's a behemoth (Sony 400 disc DVD changer) and too deep for my cabinets so I'm waiting til I find space to put it anywhere...might have to go on top of my wall unit maybe.
I'm guessing the SACD player with stereo RCA cables will still sound better than a regular CD player, right?

At this point I wish I hadn't sold my old backwards compatible PS3... Those had SACD AND hdmi.

I don't know much about SACD but my understanding was that it's going the way of the dodo mainly because of the dedicated hardware used for copy protection (it's not backward or forward compatible with anything and the copy protection scheme is in the optical reader itself, not in software, and thus costly to implement in any optical drive).

However, multi-channel uncompressed high-quality audio is still possible. More than ever in fact. You can make multi-channel FLACs. You've got blurays capable of holding 7.1 lossless audio in DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD. Even good old DVDs can hold 5.1 audio (albeit compressed).

So why haven't we seen more multi-channel music? Concert blu-rays are great but in my very limited experience, it's mostly the front three speakers that are playing with some crowd sounds in the back. I can't believe no artist would want to experiment with surround audio. Why isn't it happening?

I don't have the answer, it's an open question

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post #38590 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

No -- I certainly don't need any other speaker now... I'm just trying to find the time for some critical listening Eventually I would like to have speakers in the dining room / kitchen area for a Speaker B setup but I'm not sure I want to spend the effort that would be necessary to pull the wires where they'd need to be. Not sure which speakers to get -- small bookshelves? High quality? Not sure it makes sense to spend much since it's only for ambiance. In-ceiling speakers may be an option too but installation is more trouble and they make look out of place.

I wouldn't pull the wires for Speaker B, I would just set up a mini 2ch rig in the secondary area if it's just going to be music only.

If you have the space, I would grab a nice little 2ch integrated (bet you can find one used for cheap) to provide power. You can add a dedicated CD player as the source, or if you have your music networked I would get some streaming solution and use that to feed the amp. There are many compact media player devices that will be excellent for streaming audio.

If you have your music in iTunes, I would go with an Airport Express to stream via Airplay, which, combined with a compact integrated amp and an iPhone / iPad / iPod touch as the controller, would make a very slick little low profile 2ch foundation.

Then, I would probably go for quality over quantity (assuming you aren't going to be cranking it) and get some nice, compact bookshelf speakers, possibly supplemented with a micro sub of some sort to fill in if necessary.

I would love to be able to implement something like this is a secondary room for dedicated, moderate volume listening, but I just don't have an extra room at this point.

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post #38591 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I wouldn't pull the wires for Speaker B, I would just set up a mini 2ch rig in the secondary area if it's just going to be music only.

I'm thinking about that as well. The reason why I would go with a Speaker B setup is that the living room and kitchen/dining room are communicating via an open doorway. It would be nice to be able to have the exact same content playing simultaneously in the two rooms. Plus, since my sub is against the wall separating the two rooms, bass is not that bad in the kitchen/dining room, so maybe this could alleviate the need for another mini-sub.

Quote:


If you have the space, I would grab a nice little 2ch integrated (bet you can find one used for cheap) to provide power.

That's another problem... space. Not that the dining area is small, but the dining area and kitchen form an L-shaped room. Speakers cannot be put anywhere if I want a reasonable coverage. Maybe I could put 4 or 6 small satellites for a good coverage, restaurant-style. But against the wall they sure would look weird. Anyway it's still a vague project at this time.

Quote:


If you have your music in iTunes, I would go with an Airport Express to stream via Airplay, which, combined with a compact integrated amp and an iPhone / iPad / iPod touch as the controller, would make a very slick little low profile 2ch foundation.

I stream but via a network share or DLNA server, not iTunes. I'm not sure if there are cheap audio-only media streamers out there. A WDTV Live is less than $100 but is useless without a display. I could always use a wifi-enabled mp3 player. Still, the goal would be to have the same content playing in the living room and kitchen. So I think I'd prefer Speaker B.

Quote:


Then, I would probably go for quality over quantity (assuming you aren't going to be cranking it) and get some nice, compact bookshelf speakers, possibly supplemented with a micro sub of some sort to fill in if necessary.

Maybe I should have jumped on the V-Mini when they were on sale at FS at $150. But that's each -- $300 total, more than a pair of RC-10 at Vann's... Still, mounting bookshelves, pulling the wires... too much hassle for the moment! And I still haven't put my TV on the wall yet.

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post #38592 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Yes, the RC's were discontinued, but from the info we've gathered it seems Vanns entered into a special agreement with Audiovox to be the sole producer/distributor of a limited selection of RC speakers at heavy discounts vs. original msrp.

For quite some time they only had RC-70, RC-10, and RC-LCR, but a few months ago they added RC-50 back to the lineup.


Thanks batpig for the info, have you heard any info on how long they plan on making the rc's for vanns? Someone said FS has the rc-70's as well.

Ive got some stuff
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post #38593 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by baron2 View Post


Thanks batpig for the info, have you heard any info on how long they plan on making the rc's for vanns? Someone said FS has the rc-70's as well.

That is an unknown. If Vann's stop doing that I think the RC will be gone. Then again they seem to move a *lot* of RCs. That should be quite profitable.

FS is FutureShop, property of BestBuy in Canada.

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post #38594 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jasonmichaelh View Post

I scored an old Velodyne ULD-18 ii that I'm using with the 1.8's (hence the demonstration of 1812 overture with Macstatic he mentioned a while back). Crossover set at 40 and it really just completes my 2-channel setup. If you can find one, or even a 15 in good condition, the bang for the buck is phenomenal.

After hearing your ULD-18 with the 1.8s I'm really tempted to do everything I can to get the ULD-15 that's in our area. Looked up the specs and it goes down to 18hZ. Would be quite a step up over my Outlaw LFM-2 (29hZ). From what I read it looks like the 15 is stuck with a factory crossover while the 18 allows you to set the crossover. Not sure if I just misunderstood it.

For those looking into getting Energy speakers, or upgrading their current Energy setup, here are some reviews I've written that may help:
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  (haven't updated in a while, but include Energy Take Classic 5.1, RC-10, CF-70, and CC-10)

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post #38595 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 04:39 PM
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Macstatic were did you get your rc-50

Ive got some stuff
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post #38596 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by baron2 View Post

Macstatic were did you get your rc-50

I got mine from another member of these forums. He was planning on upgrading to the RC-70s back when Vanns had them on order but hadn't started reselling them yet.

For those looking into getting Energy speakers, or upgrading their current Energy setup, here are some reviews I've written that may help:
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  (haven't updated in a while, but include Energy Take Classic 5.1, RC-10, CF-70, and CC-10)

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post #38597 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 04:53 PM
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I wouldnt mind finding some 50 or 30 for surronds possibly, but vanns wants 400 a piece for 50, wish they had the 30

Ive got some stuff
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post #38598 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by baron2 View Post

Just having some fun,

Anyways trying to decide if I really want to keep the cf-70's and the cc-10 I bought last August since I purchased the rc-70's and the rclcr yesterday.
I dont even have 50 hours on them yet any idea what there worth for a quick sale these days?

I sold my CF70/CC10/CB10 setup locally on Craigslist for $600 last year to get the RC series and that was a good price to me since I bought the whole setup for not much more than that catching sales at Vanns. When I sold mine they were around 6 months old and I had all the original boxes so I considered my loss as a renters fee. I thought it would take a while to sell them, but it really didn't take that long. In fact the guy that I sold them to put them back on Craigslist the next day because his wife thought they were too big and wanted satellite speakers, poor guy. He ended up selling them for $500 and I was tempted to buy them back for that price lol.

Neutro had wondered if he would have been happy of he had found some CF70s to go with his setup and I can honestly say no since he listens to metal. I do miss the CFs for some aspects, but the RCs are just a better speaker all around and that's why I sold them for the RCs. If I listened to softer music I probably would have been happy with the CFs, but since I do listen to a lot of heavier music and at very loud volumes that is where the CFs lacked IMO. I do have my curiosity about a few other speakers, namely Sierras, but unless I come across a big pile of cash anytime soon I will be very happy with my RCs for years to come.

Life is hard, be harder.
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post #38599 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Saints View Post

I sold my CF70/CC10/CB10 setup locally on Craigslist for $600 last year to get the RC series and that was a good price to me since I bought the whole setup for not much more than that catching sales at Vanns. When I sold mine they were around 6 months old and I had all the original boxes so I considered my loss as a renters fee. I thought it would take a while to sell them, but it really didn't take that long. In fact the guy that I sold them to put them back on Craigslist the next day because his wife thought they were too big and wanted satellite speakers, poor guy. He ended up selling them for $500 and I was tempted to buy them back for that price lol.

Neutro had wondered if he would have been happy of he had found some CF70s to go with his setup and I can honestly say no since he listens to metal. I do miss the CFs for some aspects, but the RCs are just a better speaker all around and that's why I sold them for the RCs. If I listened to softer music I probably would have been happy with the CFs, but since I do listen to a lot of heavier music and at very loud volumes that is where the CFs lacked IMO. I do have my curiosity about a few other speakers, namely Sierras, but unless I come across a big pile of cash anytime soon I will be very happy with my RCs for years to come.

Thanks for the good info, I might try craigslist if they dont sell I can either use the cf 70 for the surronds or use the cf 70 and the cc-10 for the system upstairs. That may be the way to go, and then see if I can find something else for my surronds downstairs. There is a pair of Paradigm Studio 60's V1 in my area for 350, that might be a good surrond idea

Ive got some stuff
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still not finished my bathroom yet. Was painting trim and the closet door last couple of days, cranking up some PRONG. Sounds awesome on the 70s with some subwoofer added!! 2 songs that I like are "Snap Your Fingers" and "Close the Door"... Both have AWESOME bass grooves.... AHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

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My new setup came today, and I was kind of hoping to be able to reuse my old speaker stands for the RC-10s, but there is no way, they are way too big. Do you guys have recommendations for new stands that will work best for the 10s?
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My new setup came today, and I was kind of hoping to be able to reuse my old speaker stands for the RC-10s, but there is no way, they are way too big. Do you guys have recommendations for new stands that will work best for the 10s?

I bought some Sanus NF36 stands open box from Vanns for a good price and they look awesome with the RC10s. Just get some 3m pull strip tape like for hanging hooks or pictures or some blue tack and they aren't going anywhere.

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post #38603 of 52437 Old 04-06-2012, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baron2 View Post

Thanks for the good info, I might try craigslist if they dont sell I can either use the cf 70 for the surronds or use the cf 70 and the cc-10 for the system upstairs. That may be the way to go, and then see if I can find something else for my surronds downstairs. There is a pair of Paradigm Studio 60's V1 in my area for 350, that might be a good surrond idea

Might want to wait until you get your RC-LCR. It's probably bigger than you are imagining to be. While they are $250 ea at Vanns, that might be a nice choice for some multi-driver surrounds that would be a good timbre match for the rest of your setup.

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post #38604 of 52437 Old 04-07-2012, 03:07 AM
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FYI:

At Newegg

Energy Take 5 Pack 5CH Home Theater Speaker System $349.99

Your Price: $149.99 With Promo Code EMCYTZT1408

Free Shipping

ends 4/8
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post #38605 of 52437 Old 04-07-2012, 07:05 AM
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I don't know much about SACD but my understanding was that it's going the way of the dodo mainly because of the dedicated hardware used for copy protection (it's not backward or forward compatible with anything and the copy protection scheme is in the optical reader itself, not in software, and thus costly to implement in any optical drive).

However, multi-channel uncompressed high-quality audio is still possible. More than ever in fact. You can make multi-channel FLACs. You've got blurays capable of holding 7.1 lossless audio in DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD. Even good old DVDs can hold 5.1 audio (albeit compressed).

So why haven't we seen more multi-channel music? Concert blu-rays are great but in my very limited experience, it's mostly the front three speakers that are playing with some crowd sounds in the back. I can't believe no artist would want to experiment with surround audio. Why isn't it happening?

I don't have the answer, it's an open question

I do agree that you're correct with your theory about price being one of the reasons why the SACD and DVD-A aren't as mainstream as they could be. Another reason is their release timing and MP3s. People want convenience at the end of the day, and they make compromises to have convenience, it's just to different degrees. Another possible reason is that there are different recording quality standards for the SACDs. Some artists (or recording companies) simply want the higher sales and will rerelease albums under SACD just because they have sent some sound to the surround speakers, but the sound quality isn't at a superior resolution. It can be tricky

There are some artists that will spend a lot of time in the studio trying to perfect what they do (sound wise), while others are not so picky. Pink Floyd and Beck are known for greatness. Some artists try to fully utilize surround possibilities to enhance the listening experience. There are a ton of Classical recordings that sound fantastic.
I have heard some incredible sounding albums on SACD and DVD-A while being played on a decent player, but the same albums on a different player didn't sound good, to the point that I wouldn't spend the extra money on the discs if I didn't know any better. So all the gear being used matters as well, and many people don't care enough to dive into stereo gear to that kind of depth. I think, for the most part, only people that are extremely demanding of their music setups would bother spending the money on more decent players and discs. On top of that, it isn't the easiest to find the discs that you want. You usually can't just walk into HMV and come out with anything you want (with Classical maybe being the exception). I have ALWAYS had to explain what SACDs and DVD-As are to the employees every time I have decided to give HMV another shot. Try it sometime to see what I mean
Also, some people swear by SACD and claim that no DVD-A can compete with the sound quality from a properly recorded SACD that had no compromises in the recording stages.

Here are some older manuals from Energy

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post #38606 of 52437 Old 04-07-2012, 08:19 AM
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FYI:

At Newegg

Energy Take 5 Pack 5CH Home Theater Speaker System $349.99

Your Price: $149.99 With Promo Code EMCYTZT1408

Free Shipping

ends 4/8

And if anyone needs a sub to go with them, the Energy ESW-C10 is $149 with promo code EMCNFND56 through the weekend. That's a great set for $300.

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post #38607 of 52437 Old 04-07-2012, 08:35 AM
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Perhaps a silly question (especially since they sound great), but I have RC-70's and noticed that the mid driver does not move enough to be deteced by the eye even at high volume levels. If you place your hand just in front, you can feel some air movement, but it is not visibly detectable. I realize they shouldn't move anywhere near as much as the bass drivers, but I've always kind of wondered if what I'm seeing is normal.
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post #38608 of 52437 Old 04-07-2012, 08:43 AM
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Perhaps a silly question (especially since they sound great), but I have RC-70's and noticed that the mid driver does not move enough to be deteced by the eye even at high volume levels. If you place your hand just in front, you can feel some air movement, but it is not visibly detectable. I realize they shouldn't move anywhere near as much as the bass drivers, but I've always kind of wondered if what I'm seeing is normal.

Yes, in all likeliness, you are just fine. I would consider that to be totally normal.

Here are some older manuals from Energy

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post #38609 of 52437 Old 04-07-2012, 08:52 AM
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Yes, in all likeliness, you are just fine. I would consider that to be totally normal.

Thanks Hank. They do work as you can hear a difference if you "block" the mid with a CD jewel case just in front, and the fact they both operate the same tells me I'm sure they are operating as designed/crossed-over.
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post #38610 of 52437 Old 04-07-2012, 09:24 AM
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I know this sounds totally insane, but I've thought about it several times over: I have a pair of RC-10s I'm basically not even using (I've began using my RC-50s full range for music instead of the RC-10/Outlaw combo) and RC-50s.

Is there some CRAZY way I could just put information out of the RC-50s and RC-10s together for the mains? Having the RC-50s act as the bass and the RC-10s as midranges haha

I figure it's not possible, but would be totally cool if there was a way.

For those looking into getting Energy speakers, or upgrading their current Energy setup, here are some reviews I've written that may help:
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  (haven't updated in a while, but include Energy Take Classic 5.1, RC-10, CF-70, and CC-10)

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