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Old 07-11-2012, 11:12 PM
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Hey guys, this isn't really Energy related but I've seen other posters ask about cables here before and I need help determining the best way to do some in-wall installation. I'm moving everything around in anticipation of my new receiver (undecided atm but 11ch for sure) which I will purchase in the near future. I am also doing some work on my livingroom as well. If you wouldn't mind looking over my order/plan and offer any suggestions, I welcome it.

The Plan

My TV will be over the mantle. The mantle is 19" forward from the wall on either side and was thinking to use these http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042509&p_id=3997&seq=1&format=1#largeimage
to route my power and HDMI cable behind the tv and out the left on the side near the bottom.

I want shorter HDMI cables to reduce clutter on my rack, are these good enough?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024008&p_id=4956&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024008&p_id=3871&seq=1&format=2

Is this the right gear to use?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=2801&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023903&p_id=2823&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042503&p_id=3539&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042503&p_id=3324&seq=1&format=2

Am I going about this the right way or what would you change?

...pics to follow when complete.

EDIT: See my sig for current pics and room layout.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:52 AM
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Question, on a 2.0 setup (RC-10) for music listening only ... would music sound any better by running Audyssey?
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Question, on a 2.0 setup (RC-10) for music listening only ... would music sound any better by running Audyssey?


This info may help you http://www.audyssey.com/about


http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/individual-technologies

Panasonic 65VT60 / Marantz SR7005 / Marantz UD7007 /2 PSA XS30 /Revel Performa3 F206 / Revel Performa3 C205 / Revel Surrounds/Sonos Connect/ Roku 3 / Amazon Fire tv / Xbox One / HTPC / Darbee 5000.
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_40k View Post

Hey guys, this isn't really Energy related but I've seen other posters ask about cables here before and I need help determining the best way to do some in-wall installation. I'm moving everything around in anticipation of my new receiver (undecided atm but 11ch for sure) which I will purchase in the near future. I am also doing some work on my livingroom as well. If you wouldn't mind looking over my order/plan and offer any suggestions, I welcome it.
The Plan
My TV will be over the mantle. The mantle is 19" forward from the wall on either side and was thinking to use these http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042509&p_id=3997&seq=1&format=1#largeimage
to route my power and HDMI cable behind the tv and out the left on the side near the bottom.
If the cables are going to be inside the wall, you CANNOT, under any circumstances I am aware of, route power cables. They CAN be routed in a raceway-type accessory but ON the wall, not behind it. Notice how the item is named "LOW VOLTAGE wal plate"
These should be fine.
Pretty much everything from MP will suffice minus a few. Everything you listed should do just fine.

Quote:
Am I going about this the right way or what would you change?
...pics to follow when complete.
I would go with 14 gauge speaker wire. If they will be run in-wall, get the CL2 rated stuff for in-wall application. For RC-70s, I would be Bi-amping if not using spare amps for auxilliary speaker usage (heights, wides, SB, etc). If you are using every channel, then one set of speaker cable to each 70 will do.
When you install the banana plugs, remove the color rings only if you can tell the polarity by another means (the wire color). It makes a MUCH tigher connection to the plug.
So, after observing your photos (really impressive gear you have there pal), you are moving the HT room into the gaming room? I am not sure of how you plan to lay everything out so I can't comment any further. I do have a lot of experience in cable management, in-wall wiring, wall mounting, etc, to keep everything clean. Have a look at my avatar <----

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Old 07-12-2012, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_40k View Post

My TV will be over the mantle. The mantle is 19" forward from the wall on either side and was thinking to use these http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042509&p_id=3997&seq=1&format=1#largeimage
to route my power and HDMI cable behind the tv and out the left on the side near the bottom.

See the comment above by caper_1. By code you can't run power cords into a wall. The correct solution for that problem is either:
  1. Run the power cable out of the wall but cover it, as suggested (but this may be ugly)
  2. Install an outlet behind the TV and plug it there
  3. Use a Powerbridge-like solution, with an outlet at TV level, romex wire into the wall, and a recessed *inlet* a the base of the wall, where you can plug a standard extension from another outlet. This kit on Monoprice will get you a Powerbridge-type outlet and inlet as well as a place to run low-voltage wires.
Quote:
I want shorter HDMI cables to reduce clutter on my rack, are these good enough?.

Yes, but having used 3-ft HDMI cables before, they may be hard to work with unless you have easy access to the back of your equipment rack. In a typical HT cabinet in which you have to pull the devices to access their back, having short HDMI cables is really hard to work with.

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Old 07-12-2012, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Use a Powerbridge-like solution, with an outlet at TV level, romex wire into the wall, and a recessed *inlet* a the base of the wall, where you can plug a standard extension from another outlet.
I have one of the powerbridge brand ones, and am glad I did. better quality:

PIC 1 - The top wasnt clean looking in that picture because I had a fire stopper I had to go around. I notched it after this pic and patched it in to look like new.

PIC 2
Quote:
Yes, but having used 3-ft HDMI cables before, they may be hard to work with unless you have easy access to the back of your equipment rack. In a typical HT cabinet in which you have to pull the devices to access their back, having short HDMI cables is really hard to work with.
Thats where swivelling HDMI connectors are handy!!!
[ Swivel port saver ]
[ 360 degree port saver ]

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Old 07-12-2012, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

I have one of the powerbridge brand ones, and am glad I did. better quality:

They are what, twice as expensive though? I wondered how you got them in Canada. Did you order them directly through powerbridge.com?
Quote:
Thats where swivelling HDMI connectors are handy!!!

That would help indeed but having initially used 3ft cables to save a few bucks, I'm really happy to use 6ft cables everywhere now. I can pull out my receiver from its shelf and comfortably look at the connections at the back now, without having to reach behind and disconnect all HDMI cables first. Of course the best is to have a way to access the back of all equipment. But a rack would be a big no (and/or would require quite a long HDMI cable for the TV) in my case.

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Old 07-12-2012, 11:15 AM
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@ K40K -- I agree with the advice above:

1) the monoprice cables are just fine but go with the 14 guage wire over 16 for the in-wall stuff, might as well have slightly beefier speaker cable for not much incremental cost

2) do NOT run the power cable in the wall through a low voltage plate. Either pay an electrician to pull an outlet up behind the display or invest in a "powerbridge" solution that you can run safely through the wall. The $50-100 is worth it to do it right. The "nose plate" that you linked from monoprice is perfect for low voltage runs (A/V cables, speaker wire) but not appropriate for a power cord.

3) I would also agree that it's worth it to spend a little extra on the better "Powerbridge" branded one vs. the monoprice one; I used the monoprice one and it works fine but the quality is a bit cheaper. If I had to do it again I'd use the Powerbridge.

this stuff is actually pretty easy to install if you are reasonably handy and have the right tools. If you google there are many helpful videos online showing how to properly cut the drywall, install the plates, fish the cables through the wall, etc. I suggest you watch a few, they really helped me get mentally prepared when I mounted my TV and installed the "powerbridge". Make sure you have a drywall saw and a "fishtape" that you can use to help run cables, these are invaluable tools that many people don't have sitting around.

EDIT: here's a link to a thread about the monoprice stuff where I posted lots of photos of my install, lots of info here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1043428/monoprice-power-bridge-solution

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Old 07-12-2012, 11:43 AM
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Hello,

I was wondering if anyone has any experience in using the Energy Take 5 classic R, C, and R speakers with in-ceiling surround speakers (as opposed to the other 2 bookshelf speakers that are included in the 5.1 set. We are adding an addition to our home that includes a new "great room" (about 21 x 18) and I would like to use my energy speakers for a 5.1 set-up - but unfortunately my wife is not very keen on having the Take 5 classic bookshelf speakers mounted on the wall (or on floor stands) for the surround sound (the L, R, and C speakers will be nicely placed within a built-in bookcase along with the TV. So am I considering going the in-ceiling speaker route for the left/right surrounds even though I know it is not "ideal" (have been looking at the monoprice 8" ones as budget is a concern as well). Will the soundfield be completey destroyed if I go with in-ceilings for the surrounds? Or since the 3 main speakers will handle most of the load should I be okay? If anyone has any experienced mixing the L,C,R speakers from the take 5 classic set with in-ceiling surrounds? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:56 AM
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lots of people use in-ceiling speakers, they aren't "ideal" but they are specifically designed for this type of compromise. It will work just fine.

note that you can get Energy RC brand in-ceiling speakers for only $79 each here: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-SGresSiWZhE/p_732RC6C/Energy-RC-6C.html

might as well "keep it in the family" if you have to go that route. That speaker will actually be signficantly better than the Take Classics (RC drivers, larger 6" woofer) so you may even consider making the wife happy by going with all in-ceiling / in-wall speakers. Plus they have aimable tweeters so you can angle them towards the listening area.

If you can go in-wall for the front 3, consider these RC-6W for only $99 each: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_732RC6W/Energy-RC-6W.html?tp=192

a setup of three RC-6W on the front wall and RC-6C surrounds would crush the Take Classic in overall sound quality. That room is too large for the Take Classic anyway. I don't know how flexible the budget is, but for a 21x18 room I'd consider going with four of the RC-6C, and using the extra pair as either "height" speakers (in the ceiling at the front wall above the display) or surround back speakers.

since you are building this addition it's going to be super easy to run the wire in the walls/ceiling, unlike someone who has to start ripping out drywall and fishing wires. For under $500 you would have a very high end 5 ch in-wall / in-ceiling setup which would be essentially invisible.

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Old 07-12-2012, 03:29 PM
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Nice price thus far on a pair of CR-10 surround speakers on Ebay....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190700957553?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:07 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. I did not know you couldn't run power cords through the wall, that could've been bad, LOL. I have friends and family in almost every trade so I have access to tools and free labour/advice for the job. I may just have an outlet moved directly behind the tv, I'll ask what's the best solution or easiest to do.

In regards to the short HDMI cables, I always leave sufficient room behind my rack to access the rear panels of my gear so I want short cables to make everything clean with less slack. Also I will not be getting rid of my current cables so if I ever did decide to pull things out I still have long cables.

@caper_1, I am not moving my HT to the game room, If you look at my photo's, the wall everything is currently sitting is just shifting to the left to be over/infront of the mantle. I have moved everything already so the way it sits the wires are more noticable which is why I want to do in wall stuff and might as well go all out and make everything super neat.

Again, thanks all for the suggestions, I just wanted to make sure I had picked the right stuff before placing an order.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_40k View Post

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I did not know you couldn't run power cords through the wall, that could've been bad, LOL. I have friends and family in almost every trade so I have access to tools and free labour/advice for the job. I may just have an outlet moved directly behind the tv, I'll ask what's the best solution or easiest to do.
In regards to the short HDMI cables, I always leave sufficient room behind my rack to access the rear panels of my gear so I want short cables to make everything clean with less slack. Also I will not be getting rid of my current cables so if I ever did decide to pull things out I still have long cables.
@caper_1, I am not moving my HT to the game room, If you look at my photo's, the wall everything is currently sitting is just shifting to the left to be over/infront of the mantle. I have moved everything already so the way it sits the wires are more noticable which is why I want to do in wall stuff and might as well go all out and make everything super neat.
Again, thanks all for the suggestions, I just wanted to make sure I had picked the right stuff before placing an order.

It is not that you can't run power cords thru the wall. There are safety and building codes to worry about. One wouldn't want to try to hammer a nail into the wall to hang something and hit a live power cable. Another reason to not run low voltage cables along power cables is the fact that running low voltage cables parallel and in close proximity to a power cable can cause noise in the video and audio playback.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:50 PM
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How would that pair of CR-10s differ from using RC-10s as surrounds with with RC-10s, and an RC-LCR up front? I'm not terribly familiar with the CR-10s.

Moo.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:52 PM
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the CR-10's are intended to be wall-mounted and have a bipole/dipole design, meaning they will disperse sound in all directions for a more "diffuse" surround effect (more reflected sound than direct sound). RC-10's are traditional, direct radiating bookshelf speakers.

Most people prefer bipole/dipole designs for movie effects because the sound will be more enveloping. On the other hand, the RC-10 has the higher quality RC woofer/tweeter (whereas the CR-10 uses the same components as the lower "connoisseur" models).

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Old 07-12-2012, 04:54 PM
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apropos of nothing, but I was doing some random googling and came across this VERY in-depth review of the Energy ESW-M8 subwoofer with detailed measurements. These "micro subs" don't get a lot of play here for obvious reasons, but I thought it was an interesting review and it's rare to find one with so much detail and sophistication in the measurements: http://www.avhub.com.au/images/stories/australian-hifi/reviews/2012/2012-03/energy_esw-m8_subwoofer_equipment_review_lores.pdf

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Old 07-12-2012, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the CR-10's are intended to be wall-mounted and have a bipole/dipole design, meaning they will disperse sound in all directions for a more "diffuse" surround effect (more reflected sound than direct sound). RC-10's are traditional, direct radiating bookshelf speakers.
Most people prefer bipole/dipole designs for movie effects because the sound will be more enveloping. On the other hand, the RC-10 has the higher quality RC woofer/tweeter (whereas the CR-10 uses the same components as the lower "connoisseur" models).

Which ones would you recommend of two? Or is there a different recommendtaion altogether for surrounds?
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:28 PM
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it really depends on your application.

if you are primarily doing video content (movies, TV) and want a low-profile wall mounted speaker the CR-10 is a better choice than hanging a big box off the wall. Although the V-S surrounds are at a great price right now so I would recommend them if you can afford the extra.

for primarily multich music most prefer a direct radiating speaker like the RC-10. Plus if you can't wall mount and will have the speakers on stands RC-10's are a more natural fit.

and it also depends on the space... the closer you are to the surrounds, the more helpful the bipole/dipole design will be because the direct radiating speaker will be firing right into your ears and will become distracting and "directional". If your surrounds are 8-10+ feet away, then it's not as much of a big deal.

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Old 07-12-2012, 06:37 PM
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I just received my RC-LCR and will be setting it up with my pair of RC-10s in a few minutes. What is the recommended distance from each other and from the wall that I should be using? One other question, aside from taking them out box and hooking them up, is there anything else I should be doing before using them?
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

apropos of nothing, but I was doing some random googling and came across this VERY in-depth review of the Energy ESW-M8 subwoofer with detailed measurements. These "micro subs" don't get a lot of play here for obvious reasons, but I thought it was an interesting review and it's rare to find one with so much detail and sophistication in the measurements: http://www.avhub.com.au/images/stories/australian-hifi/reviews/2012/2012-03/energy_esw-m8_subwoofer_equipment_review_lores.pdf

It's rather rare indeed to see in-depth review of these. Wait... does the ESW-M8 really sells for 1099 AUD? The australian dollar is almost on par with the canadian dollar!

Also I don't see if the sub is tested in-room or outside (quasi-anechoic conditions).

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Old 07-12-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by torht View Post

It is not that you can't run power cords thru the wall. There are safety and building codes to worry about. One wouldn't want to try to hammer a nail into the wall to hang something and hit a live power cable. Another reason to not run low voltage cables along power cables is the fact that running low voltage cables parallel and in close proximity to a power cable can cause noise in the video and audio playback.
No. It is not the risk of hammering a nail. One can do that with Romex too. The fact that a power cable heats up and needs to ventilate is everything to do with it. Over time it will crack and burn your house down. They are not made for in-wall. No power cable NOR extension cable is.

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Old 07-12-2012, 09:46 PM
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What stands do you guys recommend for RC 10s?

By the way, the RCLCR I just got is amazing. U guys weren't lying.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:55 PM
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^
I like Sanus Steel Foundations series; I also have Sanus Euro series stands. I have noticed several other people vouching for Sanus products throughout this thread. http://www.sanus.com/us/en/products/speaker-foundations/

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Old 07-12-2012, 11:13 PM
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^
I like Sanus Steel Foundations series; I also have Sanus Euro series stands. I have noticed several other people vouching for Sanus products throughout this thread. http://www.sanus.com/us/en/products/speaker-foundations/

Is there significant differences between the different series?
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Gmonski View Post

Is there significant differences between the different series?

I can't address all of the various Series as I have not had experience with all of them. I have always had a preference for metal stands, and, the finish and visual styling of the Steel Foundations Series (in particular) appealed to my sense of taste. I purchased the Euro Series because I needed a smaller base where these stands were to be placed (in a tight space). I like the heft [cast iron bases] and stable feeling of the metal stands and both models are easy to assemble.

I would have been completely satisfied with the Steel Foundations had they been designed with the same speaker wire concealment scheme as the Euro Series. Fortunately, I have a friend who owns an auto body repair shop; I took the pair to him and had one-inch holes drilled into the top and bottom of the pillars. Only took him a minute to polish the drilled holes smooth. I used a bold Sharpie pen to finish the edges. They look and function perfectly for my needs.

Hoping this reply helps...

Note: the various series also come in varying heights. I actually own two pair of Steel Foundations stands: one at 30 inches, the other at 34 inches. These will be used for my surround (and future surround rear) speakers. I use the 28-inch Euro Series for my front pair of bookshelf speakers. Check out the link I provided in an earlier post and see what works for you. I found I could get better pricing by shopping on Amazon.

Adding a photo to illustrate how I integrated a 28-inch Sanus Euro Series speaker stand into my front stage setup:

525

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Old 07-13-2012, 10:35 AM
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Thanks for the input, erhurd.
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

note that you can get Energy RC brand in-ceiling speakers for only $79 each here: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-SGresSiWZhE/p_732RC6C/Energy-RC-6C.html

If you can go in-wall for the front 3, consider these RC-6W for only $99 each: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_732RC6W/Energy-RC-6W.html?tp=192



Batpig, are both these the ones that use to retail for quite a bit more when new?
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:10 PM
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yes, the RC in-walls used to be much more expensive.

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Old 07-13-2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, the RC in-walls used to be much more expensive.

What was original retail on them both, do you remember?
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:38 AM
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Then of course I thought about used speakers; there are often interesting deals on Kijiji and the like. But I may have to go outside of Energy. I'm not an audiophile nor a connoisseur of speakers so I'm not sure what to look for (given that I like the sound of the RC line). I see several ads that look interesting but I don't know enough to be a good judge. What are brands that sound good and rather close-ish to Energy RCs? Are there traps to avoid? I see lots of vintage speakers for example. Perusing Google I managed to find out that LXI was Sears' home brand... Not exactly what I had in mind. The interesting thing is that there are lots of big-box speakers that are meant to be put on the floor. That may be possible (WAF is unclear) in the kitchen -- I'd have no need to mount them in that case. The ads that got my attention for now are for 1) big 15"-woofer, 3-way Realistic Optimus speakers that would have to be left on the floor; 2) some vintage 3-way Pioneer speakers (they're not HPM-100s, the ad does not specify which, but says they were repaired) -- are all vintage Pioneers relatively good? and 3) Paradigm Titan bookshelves for quite cheap. Any particular opinion on any of these?
Thanks guys.

From my experience, I have found that many older tower speakers sound really good, but the bookshelves that I have heard haven't been. This is entirely because of the models that I have heard. My theory is that more people are probably more likely to want to get rid of big bulky tower speakers before they get rid of small bookshelves that are hidden and out of the way. The garbage older bookshelf speakers that I have come across for sale, were probably being sold because the people knew they were garbage and wanted them out of the house. This is just what my experiences have been.

I have owned some awful vintage Pioneer, and I have owned some decent ones as well, but at the end, I was happy to be able to sell all of the Pioneers that have made their way into my house.
I have had some Sears speakers as well, and they quickly sold when people auditioned them directly against highly regarded speakers that they originally came to buy. Take it for what it's worth, but there are many sleeper models that perform really well, especially for the price that you can buy them for.
I agree with batpig that the Paradigms would be worth looking at.
Another brand that you would most likely find to be very good is Mission.

Here are some older manuals from Energy
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/scjuc30ylshsa5n/CaqhZ-nx9A
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