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batpig's Avatar batpig
01:00 PM Liked: 1609
post #52201 of 52768
07-28-2014 | Posts: 25,078
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He's full of crap that the avr is the issue.

Before you determine that the tweeter is blown remember that the RC-10 has dual biwire binding posts. So make sure it's not something as simple as the shorting straps being loose. Try disconnecting the shorting straps and just connect the avr output to the top (tweeter) binding posts and see if it makes noise.
beavesmx44's Avatar beavesmx44
01:08 PM Liked: 11
post #52202 of 52768
07-28-2014 | Posts: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khalid7412002 View Post
Hey guys and gals,

I would like some help regarding my (Left/Right) RC-70, (Center) RC-LCR, (surround) RC-10 setup that I purchased late April of this year.

Over the weekend I purchased a boom mic and decided to redo my odyssey setup to get a better calibration for my room. As I was running the 1 first position and it tested my surround right RC-10, I noticed that it sounded flat with and did not have that high pitched "chirp" that my other speakers had during the calibration. I ran it again and had the same result with that specific speaker. So I swapped the SR and SL wires in my AVR to see if it was channel dependent or speaker dependent. Turns out that specific speaker lacked the highs regardless of what channel I set it to in the AVR. I'm guessing the tweeter is shot on that RC-10.

So today I called energy and spoke with a gentlemen in the product support department and informed him of my issue. First he was highly surprised I bought an RC-10 setup as recent as April and he didn't know they were still being sold at Frys. Second he asked what AVR I was using and I told him I am using a Denon AVR-X4000 to power my 5.1 RC setup. He told that the RC-10 need 175 watts and that my AVR is most likely the issue, but wasn't able to explain why only one speaker was having an issue and not the others, especially the RC-70s. Instructed me to email them a receipt, description of the problem, and AVR that I am using.

His comments caught me off guard because everything I've read says these are highly efficient speakers and doesn't require a ton of power.

Can anyone shed some light on this? I suspect he might have been mistaken, but I'm in the wrong, I'd like to know so I can get external amps if need be to prevent damage to the other speakers.
He is indeed mistaken/misinformed. A denon x4000 is more than adequate for the entire rc series. Plenty of power unless your sitting far away and trying to play at reference level. Audyssey doesn't play test tones at reference so the damage must have occurred sometime before that.
kgallerie's Avatar kgallerie
02:54 PM Liked: 64
post #52203 of 52768
07-28-2014 | Posts: 778
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Agreed with the other guys. You should call him back and tell him its a shame Audiovox has people like him taking technical calls. Thats just plain awful.
batpig's Avatar batpig
03:13 PM Liked: 1609
post #52204 of 52768
07-28-2014 | Posts: 25,078
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It probably is rooted in the old adage that it's easier to destroy a tweeter by UNDERpowering it (clipped signal) than overpowering it. Yes, if you tried to push the X4000 so loud that its amps went into clipping, you could destroy a tweeter.

But making any sort of gross connection between the 175W max RMS rating of the RC-10 and the 125W/ch rating of the X4000 is asinine. That's like saying it's your fault you blew your tire because it's V-rated (149mph) and your car can't go faster than 115mph.
PoshFrosh's Avatar PoshFrosh
03:29 PM Liked: 64
post #52205 of 52768
07-28-2014 | Posts: 379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khalid7412002 View Post
Hey guys and gals,

I would like some help regarding my (Left/Right) RC-70, (Center) RC-LCR, (surround) RC-10 setup that I purchased late April of this year.

Over the weekend I purchased a boom mic and decided to redo my odyssey setup to get a better calibration for my room. As I was running the 1 first position and it tested my surround right RC-10, I noticed that it sounded flat with and did not have that high pitched "chirp" that my other speakers had during the calibration. I ran it again and had the same result with that specific speaker. So I swapped the SR and SL wires in my AVR to see if it was channel dependent or speaker dependent. Turns out that specific speaker lacked the highs regardless of what channel I set it to in the AVR. I'm guessing the tweeter is shot on that RC-10.
This same thing recently happened to me with one of my Energy V-S's. I switched the tweeter from the other VS and the problem remained, so I figured the crossover was broken. I contacted Energy and they said it was unlikely, but that it did happen sometimes. They sent me a new crossover free. It completely fixed the problem.

That being said, the VS doesn't have dual binding posts, so first I would check on the RC10 is what bitpig mentioned about making sure the screws on the dual binding posts are tight and firmly holding the metal straps in place.
Aarghon's Avatar Aarghon
06:04 PM Liked: 304
post #52206 of 52768
07-28-2014 | Posts: 822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
I think you are turned around. The RCs came in black, cherry and rosenut. The V's are only offered in two finishes, gloss black and gloss rosewood.
I was , effectively. Didn't look at the energy site, I was so convinced it was the case.. My bad and thanks for correcting it!
Aarghon's Avatar Aarghon
06:13 PM Liked: 304
post #52207 of 52768
07-28-2014 | Posts: 822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brendelac View Post
I think you should be able to get $750 rather than just ask for $750, however you may have to sell the v5.2c separately since it isn't a match in colour or series. .

And most importantly of all, what will you be replacing them with???
Well, I hear you! But since I want it to move fast, I won't be as finicky and hard negotiating as usual... But I do want at least 750.

Almost two months ago I've bought reaction audio dual subs... They've impressed me so much I'm willing to go full-on with a reaction audio cx-10 LCR... Always loved Tannoy's dual concentric speaker concept. Some people say to me I should wait until the company gets bigger, but no. The company's owner is really communicative, upfront, and honest. He is passionate about what he's doing. ! And I'm excited as much as him as being part of that new project!
brendelac's Avatar brendelac
09:50 PM Liked: 54
post #52208 of 52768
07-29-2014 | Posts: 699
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Last thing I really need right now is more speakers as I have enough collecting dust, but there is a semi-local pair of 22 RC speakers in black for $700. Never heard them before other than their reputation. Are they worth looking into without having an immediate use for them?
Aarghon's Avatar Aarghon
08:08 AM Liked: 304
post #52209 of 52768
07-30-2014 | Posts: 822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brendelac View Post
Last thing I really need right now is more speakers as I have enough collecting dust, but there is a semi-local pair of 22 RC speakers in black for $700. Never heard them before other than their reputation. Are they worth looking into without having an immediate use for them? Price seems a bit steep given their vintage, but I'm wondering how they would compare to my v2.3s...
I think the price is reallllly high too, since I'm seeing a lot them ranging from 200-400$... And there has to be some of very good condition amongst them.
deano86's Avatar deano86
08:19 AM Liked: 56
post #52210 of 52768
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If I recall those are pretty awesome performing speakers, but I think the tweeters can possibly have problems with age? Ferrofluid tweeters? Not certain at all though... something to check with the seller on...
PoshFrosh's Avatar PoshFrosh
08:53 AM Liked: 64
post #52211 of 52768
07-30-2014 | Posts: 379
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Do you all think it's crazy to purchase spare Energy speakers in case of future failure of non-discontinued models that I am using (and hope to use for the rest of my life)?

I have 3 RC70s (as L/C/R) and 2 VS surrounds. I'm thinking if I buy one RC-LCR and one VS then I can replace or use parts to repair failed units in case something goes wrong.

I recently had to have a VS crossover replaced under warranty and it has gotten me worried about getting stuck with the wrong number of speakers and being unable to find a matching replacement in the far future.
Aarghon's Avatar Aarghon
09:07 AM Liked: 304
post #52212 of 52768
07-30-2014 | Posts: 822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post
Do you all think it's crazy to purchase spare Energy speakers in case of future failure of non-discontinued models that I am using (and hope to use for the rest of my life)?

I have 3 RC70s (as L/C/R) and 2 VS surrounds. I'm thinking if I buy one RC-LCR and one VS then I can replace or use parts to repair failed units in case something goes wrong.

I recently had to have a VS crossover replaced under warranty and it has gotten me worried about getting stuck with the wrong number of speakers and being unable to find a matching replacement in the far future.

If you love them enough to be sure that you won't be tempted to upgrade in the future, it wouldn't be an useless investment I think. But...I do think the upgrade bug is a thing hard to mitigate for a lifetime
khalid7412002's Avatar khalid7412002
09:47 AM Liked: 13
post #52213 of 52768
07-30-2014 | Posts: 83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
He's full of crap that the avr is the issue.

Before you determine that the tweeter is blown remember that the RC-10 has dual biwire binding posts. So make sure it's not something as simple as the shorting straps being loose. Try disconnecting the shorting straps and just connect the avr output to the top (tweeter) binding posts and see if it makes noise.
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. Still waiting to hear back from my email to Energy from the other day. May send them a follow up one to see if they received my email.

Also, I never play the speakers loud, usually around -45, since I live an apartment with walls that seem to be made of paper. I don't like it when others blast their movies/music so I can extra care to make sure I am not playing anything louder than -40.

So, another interesting thing I noticed is that the tweeter comes on sometimes after about an hour or so of playing music and then goes away. Sometimes I hear a slight static/popping noise. Also, I can "force" the tweeter to come on by increasing the volume from -10 to -5 and it will come on and produce sound.

Per your instructions batpig, I connected the avr directly to the top binding post and removed the metal connecting piece and no sound is produced from that speaker until I increase the volume to -10 to -5 to force it to come on. I can then adjust the volume to whatever level and it will stay on but sound has a "hiss" to it at -10 and above.

Given this new info, could it be anything else besides the tweeter?
batpig's Avatar batpig
10:45 AM Liked: 1609
post #52214 of 52768
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It sounds (to this non expert on speaker internals) that it could be a loose connection -- when the current level gets high enough it "jumps the gap" but when there isn't enough current flowing it fails to connect. Might as well pop it open and take a look.
kgallerie's Avatar kgallerie
01:04 PM Liked: 64
post #52215 of 52768
07-30-2014 | Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khalid7412002 View Post
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. Still waiting to hear back from my email to Energy from the other day. May send them a follow up one to see if they received my email.

Also, I never play the speakers loud, usually around -45, since I live an apartment with walls that seem to be made of paper. I don't like it when others blast their movies/music so I can extra care to make sure I am not playing anything louder than -40.

So, another interesting thing I noticed is that the tweeter comes on sometimes after about an hour or so of playing music and then goes away. Sometimes I hear a slight static/popping noise. Also, I can "force" the tweeter to come on by increasing the volume from -10 to -5 and it will come on and produce sound.

Per your instructions batpig, I connected the avr directly to the top binding post and removed the metal connecting piece and no sound is produced from that speaker until I increase the volume to -10 to -5 to force it to come on. I can then adjust the volume to whatever level and it will stay on but sound has a "hiss" to it at -10 and above.

Given this new info, could it be anything else besides the tweeter?
Sounds like a bad connection since it comes on sometimes and not others. You could try removing the tweeter, and cleaning the connection of the wires to the tweeter, and make sure they are connected properly. Do the same for the connections to the crossover if they are removable connections (don't know if those are soldered or if its a removable connection).
voxx1's Avatar voxx1
02:39 PM Liked: 13
post #52216 of 52768
07-30-2014 | Posts: 21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post
Do you all think it's crazy to purchase spare Energy speakers in case of future failure of non-discontinued models that I am using (and hope to use for the rest of my life)?.

Sure ...just put them in the closet with the purple flourescent one-piece ski suits that you stocked up on in the mid eighties ....

Just kidding !
I would think that after a while there will be way more awesome stuff available to upgrade to. Just think of the first flat panel TV's compared to what is out there now.

Just sayin' ...
hernanu's Avatar hernanu
03:32 PM Liked: 239
post #52217 of 52768
07-30-2014 | Posts: 2,660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voxx1 View Post
Sure ...just put them in the closet with the purple flourescent one-piece ski suits that you stocked up on in the mid eighties ....

Just kidding !
I would think that after a while there will be way more awesome stuff available to upgrade to. Just think of the first flat panel TV's compared to what is out there now.

Just sayin' ...
I think it depends. Some speakers now as compared to earlier speakers may not compete well. Compare the 1.X and 2.X veritas versus later veritas.

Not due to nostalgia, but since the technology is fairly mature, it won't be subject to the fast shifts that TV design is undergoing.

I don't see the speaker equivalent of OLED out there to blast away previous tech. Maybe composition of the drivers (kevlar, etc), but as for a quantum leap forward, it's difficult to see.

That of course doesn't mean that some incredible new tech is not waiting to drop on us (which I would love), but for now, if I were to pick a 'stable' AV component that you could spend money on and feel comfortable would not be obsolete in a year, it'd be speakers.

Even something tangentially related, like ATMOS will use current technology for speakers as far as I know.
khalid7412002's Avatar khalid7412002
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post #52218 of 52768
07-30-2014 | Posts: 83
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An update on my RC-10 tweeter situation. Also, I use spade banana plugs for the rear RC-10s and Silverback banana plugs for the two RC-70s and the LCR.

Today per some suggestions from other forum members, I took out the tweeter to double check the connections and also unscrewed the binding post and made sure any connections in that area were also tight. The wires on the backside of the binding post are soldered so there wasn't much I could do there. On the front tweeter, I made sure the two wires were tightly connected to the tweeter speaker posts.

After screwing everything back in, I tested out the tweeter only and it worked immediately with just the tweeter connected to the avr. So I then reconnected the metal connecting piece between the top and bottom binding posts and connected the avr spade plug in the bottom posts, played some music, and was able to hear sound coming from the bottom speaker and top tweeter.

I then wanted to test the Audyssey aspect to see if I could hear the "chirp" or not so I moved the speaker closer to the AVR and used the wire from the Front Left Speaker because that is the first speaker Audyssey tests. The front speaker wire is connected by regular banana wire and this is where I think I'm starting to pin point the issue.

I plugged the wire into the bottom post of the RC-10, ran the Audyssey test, and disappointingly, the "chirp" was not there. So I grabbed the RC-10 to look at the back and while doing this, the "chirp" suddenly came back. So I ran Audyssey again and the chirp was still there, ran Audyssey again but I moved the speaker a little and now the chirp was gone.

So I started to wiggle the banana plug on the bottom binding posts and noticed that while I was wiggling the red or + binding post, I could cause the Audyssey "chirp" to appear and disappear depending on how I held the banana plug.

That is the latest in trying to figure out what my issue is with this RC-10. The bottom binding posts looks to be the culprit and since everything look soldered on the inside, I don't know what my next step would be.

Still haven't heard from energy so I'm gonna call them again tomorrow with this update and see what they think and what steps to take.
batpig's Avatar batpig
07:37 PM Liked: 1609
post #52219 of 52768
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Can you remove the banana plug and just test with bare wire connection?
khalid7412002's Avatar khalid7412002
07:44 PM Liked: 13
post #52220 of 52768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Can you remove the banana plug and just test with bare wire connection?
I can test that out tomorrow when I have a free sec. Honestly I don't think that will change anything because both the spear shaped banana plug and Sewell Deadbolt 45° Spade Plug both produced results of no chirp and sometimes results of a chirp. However, in the interest of checking any and all variables, I will test the bare wire and update with the results.

Thanks for the help and suggestions Batpig as well as everyone else.
batpig's Avatar batpig
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At least you know it's not a bad tweeter.

Have you tried connecting directly to the top binding posts (with the connector strap still in place)?
mattdub1's Avatar mattdub1
07:30 AM Liked: 11
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07-31-2014 | Posts: 97
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Does anyone know what the finish is made from on the veritas v6.3 gloss black? is it acrylic lacquer or something else? Also, does anyone use a product like car wax to hide the swirls and add protection against future scratches?

Thanks
brendelac's Avatar brendelac
08:03 AM Liked: 54
post #52223 of 52768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
If I recall those are pretty awesome performing speakers, but I think the tweeters can possibly have problems with age? Ferrofluid tweeters? Not certain at all though... something to check with the seller on...
There is a place in Eastern Canada that rebuilds the tweeters for $160 each which ain't cheap, but there may be other less expensive options as well. The seller says the tweeters are fine and rates the speakers overall as an 8 out of 10. They also sound interested in a pair of Dynaudio speakers that I have as a potential part-trade. Just trying to convince myself to make the drive to hear a pair of unfamiliar speakers that I really do not need.
kgallerie's Avatar kgallerie
11:56 AM Liked: 64
post #52224 of 52768
07-31-2014 | Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdub1 View Post
Does anyone know what the finish is made from on the veritas v6.3 gloss black? is it acrylic lacquer or something else? Also, does anyone use a product like car wax to hide the swirls and add protection against future scratches?

Thanks
I just bought a esw-v8 sub that has a piano black finish on it. It came with some light scratches and a dented corner. I contacted energy and they were no help with the type of finish. I tried some maguires ultimate rubbing compound on the bottom (as a trial spot) to remove some of the light scratches and it worked great. So try that to remove the swirls, then go to the polish to shine it up, then put a coat of wax on for protection and you'll be good to go. Personally i would try the full process on the bottom first to make sure you like the results.
mattdub1's Avatar mattdub1
12:34 PM Liked: 11
post #52225 of 52768
07-31-2014 | Posts: 97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgallerie View Post
I just bought a esw-v8 sub that has a piano black finish on it. It came with some light scratches and a dented corner. I contacted energy and they were no help with the type of finish. I tried some maguires ultimate rubbing compound on the bottom (as a trial spot) to remove some of the light scratches and it worked great. So try that to remove the swirls, then go to the polish to shine it up, then put a coat of wax on for protection and you'll be good to go. Personally i would try the full process on the bottom first to make sure you like the results.
yeah I contacted energy too and the same guy that always seems to answer wasn't helpful at all. What kind of wax? Liquid, paste, or just some spray wax on a towel?

Thanks
kgallerie's Avatar kgallerie
02:56 PM Liked: 64
post #52226 of 52768
07-31-2014 | Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdub1 View Post
yeah I contacted energy too and the same guy that always seems to answer wasn't helpful at all. What kind of wax? Liquid, paste, or just some spray wax on a towel?

Thanks
Any kind of auto wax should do. I'll be using meguiars ultimate liquid wax on my subwoofer once I get it finished up. You could use a paste too. But like i said before, make sure you test it on the bottom first to make sure you like the results.
khalid7412002's Avatar khalid7412002
04:09 PM Liked: 13
post #52227 of 52768
07-31-2014 | Posts: 83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
At least you know it's not a bad tweeter.

Have you tried connecting directly to the top binding posts (with the connector strap still in place)?
So I tried the bare connection in both top and bottom binding posts, and wiggling it allows me to turn the tweeter off or on. So I think the issue is most likely in the binding posts part.

Energy contacted me today to let me know the tweeter is on backorder and will update me when it ships. I emailed back with my findings from yesterday and today and am currently waiting to hear back on what my next steps are.

I'll let you know what the end result is and if we can determine the actual point of issue.

Thanks again for all the help!
deano86's Avatar deano86
07:00 AM Liked: 56
post #52228 of 52768
08-01-2014 | Posts: 1,428
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For gosh sake... take the back plate off and fix the loose connection!
afrogt's Avatar afrogt
08:49 AM Liked: 419
post #52229 of 52768
08-01-2014 | Posts: 23,436
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RC-70's are $299 each again at Frys. In store availability.
hernanu's Avatar hernanu
08:55 AM Liked: 239
post #52230 of 52768
08-01-2014 | Posts: 2,660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
RC-70's are $299 each again at Frys. In store availability.
Kills me here in New England.

Of course, I'm perfectly happy with my RC 50's
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