Energy Owners Thread - Page 1748 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 56Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #52411 of 52425 Old 09-13-2014, 10:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
Gmash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by teookie View Post
Soooo I think I've found a dud in the Energy line, or I don't know what I'm doing. Check out this video I made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za6qzFj1uzk
You can hear that the Energy EAS-6C in-ceiling speakers sound like tin cans compared to the take classics. Anyone else have this experience? I expected the larger (6.5") ceiling speakers to put out better sound than the small (3") take classics. I just bought two pairs of the EAS-6C speakers and all four of them sound like this. I've double checked my wiring and the receiver settings and everything is set up properly. I have to crank up the bass and turn down the treble to get these things to sound half decent. If I can't find a solution they will have to go back to amazon which makes me sad since I am an Energy fan.
I don't think you can judge the sound like that. When they are mounted the joist space will act like a cabinet, right?
Gmash is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52412 of 52425 Old 09-13-2014, 10:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
deano86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by teookie View Post
Soooo I think I've found a dud in the Energy line, or I don't know what I'm doing. Check out this video I made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za6qzFj1uzk
You can hear that the Energy EAS-6C in-ceiling speakers sound like tin cans compared to the take classics. Anyone else have this experience? I expected the larger (6.5") ceiling speakers to put out better sound than the small (3") take classics. I just bought two pairs of the EAS-6C speakers and all four of them sound like this. I've double checked my wiring and the receiver settings and everything is set up properly. I have to crank up the bass and turn down the treble to get these things to sound half decent. If I can't find a solution they will have to go back to amazon which makes me sad since I am an Energy fan.
You do realize that you are doing an apples to oranges comparison.. You are comparing an unmounted in-ceiling designed speaker to a enclosed and designed specified cabinet volume bookshelf speaker.... In what possible way is that a reasonable way to compare the two speakers overall sound? Not to mention, that the two speakers use totally different driver construction materials, and the tweeter in the 6C is bigger than the one in the Take speaker and you have the making of a huge discrepancy in sound between the two.. What you are essentially showing is the reason why you would need to have big bass and treble adjustment differences between the two and that is about it.... At least mount the in ceiling speaker in some sort of enclosure to even things up a bit...
deano86 is offline  
post #52413 of 52425 Old 09-13-2014, 11:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hank Mardukous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto area Canada
Posts: 1,931
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I moved some speakers around about 4 months ago and wanted to report in. I switched RC-70s out with 22 Reference Connoisseurs and I have to say that I am excited to have music playing through them and look forward to turning them on. The RC-70s are great, but for music I have to define them as safe, not so much inspiring or exciting. (I have always found that the RC-70s are perfect for home theatre.) The 22 Reference Connoisseurs are high energy and powerful. I am really appreciating them as a speaker worth using. They are a great sounding and tremendously bass punchy speaker that generates excitement and passion for music. I'm loving them. I recommend to pick some up if you have the opportunity.

Here are some older manuals from Energy

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Hank Mardukous is offline  
post #52414 of 52425 Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
Member
 
Peen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 11
RC-70's are back to $299 each at Frys. Funny thing is I'm going there today to help buddy build a PC. Now these are going to be tempting me even though I have RC-70's already...
Peen is online now  
post #52415 of 52425 Old Yesterday, 03:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
Aarghon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peen View Post
RC-70's are back to $299 each at Frys. Funny thing is I'm going there today to help buddy build a PC. Now these are going to be tempting me even though I have RC-70's already...
Just grab another set as surrounds/wides ( devil's advocate at playyyyy )

Energy Rc-70 fronts, Energy Rc-70 surrounds, Energy veritas 5.2c, Energy rc-mini heights
Dual Reaction-Audio BPS212
Pioneer Elite sc-61 AVR
Pioneer Elite n50 network player
Marantz CD6004 cd player
Marantz UD5007 Blu ray player
Panasonic Tcl55dt60 led tv , Playstation 3 and a lot of old consoles
Aarghon is offline  
post #52416 of 52425 Old Yesterday, 03:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
JKR1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peen View Post
RC-70's are back to $299 each at Frys. Funny thing is I'm going there today to help buddy build a PC. Now these are going to be tempting me even though I have RC-70's already...
70's work great as rear channels ........ I have 70's as front Left and Right with RC-LCR as center and 70's for rear Left and Right and 50's for rear back channels.......sounds beyond excellent!!!
JKR1963 is offline  
post #52417 of 52425 Old Today, 03:23 PM
Senior Member
 
LDBecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Cross-posting an issue here also from the Denon 2014 Atmos receiver page -

I have a 7.1 Veritas system - 2.3, 2.2, 2.0r, 2.0c - and really like them. Got a new Denon X5200W receiver and was excited to run Audyssey on the system - and it failed. wouldn't even go beyond the sub test. I thought the receiver was bad because the speaker it failed on - a 2.3 - was emitting the test tones correctly, but Audyssey reported that there was no speaker. Denon said to return the receiver... I started reading in this thread and found that my series of Veritas speakers is prone to the "dead woofer" syndrome - and that's what that speaker has - two dead woofers.
So I put the 2.3s in the back and moved the 2.2s on stands to the front - and Audyssey is reporting a phase reversal issue with one of them, and it plays the test tones at about 1/4 volume. Tried reversing the cable, but no dice.

Are these also prone to crossover issues?

Also, is there anywhere that can repair these speaker drivers and crossovers? I'm in the Los Angeles area. I really like the Veritas sound and look... I think they're worth fixing if possible.

Thanks!

Larry
LDBecker is online now  
post #52418 of 52425 Old Today, 04:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
deano86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDBecker View Post
Cross-posting an issue here also from the Denon 2014 Atmos receiver page -

I have a 7.1 Veritas system - 2.3, 2.2, 2.0r, 2.0c - and really like them. Got a new Denon X5200W receiver and was excited to run Audyssey on the system - and it failed. wouldn't even go beyond the sub test. I thought the receiver was bad because the speaker it failed on - a 2.3 - was emitting the test tones correctly, but Audyssey reported that there was no speaker. Denon said to return the receiver... I started reading in this thread and found that my series of Veritas speakers is prone to the "dead woofer" syndrome - and that's what that speaker has - two dead woofers.
So I put the 2.3s in the back and moved the 2.2s on stands to the front - and Audyssey is reporting a phase reversal issue with one of them, and it plays the test tones at about 1/4 volume. Tried reversing the cable, but no dice.

Are these also prone to crossover issues?

Also, is there anywhere that can repair these speaker drivers and crossovers? I'm in the Los Angeles area. I really like the Veritas sound and look... I think they're worth fixing if possible.

Thanks!

Larry
First off, were you using these speakers with another receiver prior to purchasing the Denon?... and if so, were they working fine then? Your Veritas speakers (non i ) versions can most definitely fail with frozen woofers, but first make sure they are hooked up securely with any bi wire/ bi amp shorting straps on the the speaker connection plate securely fastened also...

As far as the Audyssey phase reversal indication on your calibration routine of your Denon, it is definitely necessary to double check for proper phase speaker wiring, but the phase error message itself can be faulty.... due to various room and measurement issues... If you have double checked the receiver and speaker connections for the problem speaker, you could also try the "battery check" to confirm whether the phase is indeed correct inside your speaker... briefly connect wires from a small 9V battery to the speaker terminals and carefully watch whether the woofer extends out or pulls in. If properly connected "+" to "+" and "-" to "-" I believe the woofer should extend outward.

If you indeed have frozen woofers on the 2.3, replacing them is actually fairly simple, but finding good replacement woofers is a bit trickier at this point in the game... Call Energy and see what they say, but I assume replacement woofers direct from them may not be available anymore... Find out the actual replacement part number for your model's woofer and keep checking Ebay/Craigslist either for the part or maybe another speaker to use for parts....
deano86 is offline  
post #52419 of 52425 Old Today, 04:16 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,276
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 546 Post(s)
Liked: 1187
The fact that the test tones are really low volume from that one V2.2 indicates it's not a simple "false positive" phase error. And I assume when you swapped cables the "bad" speaker stayed "bad" right? So it's definitely that speaker.

The frozen woofer test is easy -- you can simply push lightly with your fingers on the inside ring of the woofer and if it's "frozen" it will not slide in/out along the pole piece (phase plug).

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
batpig is online now  
post #52420 of 52425 Old Today, 06:18 PM
Senior Member
 
LDBecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
First off, were you using these speakers with another receiver prior to purchasing the Denon?... and if so, were they working fine then? Your Veritas speakers (non i ) versions can most definitely fail with frozen woofers, but first make sure they are hooked up securely with any bi wire/ bi amp shorting straps on the the speaker connection plate securely fastened also...

As far as the Audyssey phase reversal indication on your calibration routine of your Denon, it is definitely necessary to double check for proper phase speaker wiring, but the phase error message itself can be faulty.... due to various room and measurement issues... If you have double checked the receiver and speaker connections for the problem speaker, you could also try the "battery check" to confirm whether the phase is indeed correct inside your speaker... briefly connect wires from a small 9V battery to the speaker terminals and carefully watch whether the woofer extends out or pulls in. If properly connected "+" to "+" and "-" to "-" I believe the woofer should extend outward.

If you indeed have frozen woofers on the 2.3, replacing them is actually fairly simple, but finding good replacement woofers is a bit trickier at this point in the game... Call Energy and see what they say, but I assume replacement woofers direct from them may not be available anymore... Find out the actual replacement part number for your model's woofer and keep checking Ebay/Craigslist either for the part or maybe another speaker to use for parts....
Hi, deano86 -

Thanks for this - I had everything connected to a Pioneer 59Txi before and the last time I ran the MACC, it had no issues - but that was a simple version of that from about 10 years ago. I'm not sure it could report issues. The binding posts are all secure, and the banana connecters seem solid. The 59Txi lost its center channel amp, and, I was assuming, the left channel as well... turns out the center speaker is fine - the L 2.3 had failed. I had never heard of a dead woofer issue before this weekend doing a search on this forum.

The woofers on the one 2.3 feel COMPLETELY different from the other 2.3 - the frozen ones feel dead - no movement at all, verses the other one - as well as on all the other speakers, which has movement.

I'll try the 9v test tonight when I get home... The test tones on the one 2.2 that shows phase reversal issues are at most 1/4 the volume of the other speaker test tones. I did try Audyssey with the wires reversed and it made no difference at all. I will simply swap 2.2 speakers next to see if the problem stays put on that side or moves with the speaker.
LDBecker is online now  
post #52421 of 52425 Old Today, 06:34 PM
Senior Member
 
LDBecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The fact that the test tones are really low volume from that one V2.2 indicates it's not a simple "false positive" phase error. And I assume when you swapped cables the "bad" speaker stayed "bad" right? So it's definitely that speaker.

The frozen woofer test is easy -- you can simply push lightly with your fingers on the inside ring of the woofer and if it's "frozen" it will not slide in/out along the pole piece (phase plug).
Going to triple check the cables next -

The frozen woofer test I used was simply to observe that the woofer cone felt dead - it did not move at all - like it was attached to something. The other woofers moved in and out on their foam rings as one would expect.
LDBecker is online now  
post #52422 of 52425 Old Today, 08:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
Gmash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Man, what a run of bad luck having that many woofers freeze up so close together! Good luck with finding replacements. Could be tough to find that many.
Gmash is online now  
post #52423 of 52425 Old Today, 09:08 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,276
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 546 Post(s)
Liked: 1187
Assuming you have a good sub to fill in, one thing you can do is swap a bad woofer for a good from the other V2.3 and run them each with one good woofer. They will obviously be a bit bash shy and it's not a long term solution but it will at least get you up and running in a pinch while you figure out the next move.

The woofers are trivially easy to take out in these speakers, just unscrew from the back and the whole assembly pops out the front.

The only wrinkle is that, because of the "tapered crossover" used by Energy on these speakers, one woofer goes all the way to the 550hz crossover with the midrange whereas the other only goes up to 300hz. I assume the upper one is the "full range" one (to be coherent with the midrange just above it) but just so you are aware, if you pick the wrong one you'll have a gap between 300-550hz.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
batpig is online now  
post #52424 of 52425 Old Today, 09:09 PM
Senior Member
 
LDBecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The fact that the test tones are really low volume from that one V2.2 indicates it's not a simple "false positive" phase error. And I assume when you swapped cables the "bad" speaker stayed "bad" right? So it's definitely that speaker.

The frozen woofer test is easy -- you can simply push lightly with your fingers on the inside ring of the woofer and if it's "frozen" it will not slide in/out along the pole piece (phase plug).
Tried SEVERAL more calibration runs (I think my wife hates me now), this time with the 2.2 switched to the left side - it passed the first time, passed the 2nd time (but my dipole 2.0r failed the phase test), failed the third time, passed the fourth and fifth times. So I'm going to go with ok at this point I think...

The two woofers on the 2.3, well, they're definitely dead. I checked ebay and there was one NEW one in FRANCE for $99 plus $45 shipping - not sure I want to get involved with intercontinental EBay ordering (my life has enough drama) ... someone on Craigs list in my area have some 2.4s in "average shape with no grills" for $850. That's way more than I would want to pay for decade-old speakers with a reputation (well-earned, apparently!) for blowing woofers.

What the heck makes the woofers do that? And why can't it be undone? I read all I could on this but don't get it...
LDBecker is online now  
post #52425 of 52425 Old Today, 09:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,276
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 546 Post(s)
Liked: 1187
You might have missed my post in the other thread but I linked a few Veritas ads on local craigslists in SoCal. There's a pair of 2.3i in Chino for a reasonable price too.

The flaw has to do with the way the pole screws directly through the back of the magnet and heat sink assembly. It places tension on the connection between the woofer and the voice coil, and eventually it fails and the woofer rips off and gets stuck. The updated woofer design fixed the flaw.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
batpig is online now  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Energy , Energy Loudspeakers , Energy S8 3 Subwoofer , Energy S12 3 Subwoofer , Energy Take Lcr Speaker Single Black , Energy Take Sat Speaker Single Black , Onkyo Tx Ds 656 , Receivers Amplifiers , Osd Audio S 10 High Powered 10 Inch Home Theatre Subwoofer Black , Energy Speakers , Energy Speaker Systems , Energy C 100 Bookshelf Speakers , Energy Rc R Surround Speaker Black , Energy Bookshelf Speakers C 50

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off