Energy Owners Thread - Page 1770 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #53071 of 53079 Old Yesterday, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
They were black and looked pretty beat up.
Good I don't feel bad at all now.
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post #53072 of 53079 Old Today, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
Got it. Looks like they are available at both local stores too. Shame they only have the black ash finish. Have never liked speakers in that finish. Just seems so damn cheap.
But for $550, I may just pick them up simply because they are a quality speaker. Wish I could find another set of my V2.2i's for the same price!!! In fact, I'm hoping I can come across either a single or maybe a damaged pair for a good deal. Really want to swap out the center channel with another V2.2i. The Veritas center isn't very good. What sucks is that I had an Atlantic Technology THX Ultra 450 center and sold it to get the matching Veritas center. It was a HUGE step down for dialog. Have regretted it ever since. I'm sure another V2.2i as my center would be a huge step up.
If I do end up buying these RC-70s, they will either sit in their boxes or get used as surrounds. Too bad I can't afford 4 of them to use as my side and rear surrounds.
They do not look cheap at all in person. It's real wood.

-SAMSUNG UN607150/OPPO BDP 103D
-ENERGY RC-50 FRONTS
-ENERGY RC-LCR CENTER
-ENERGY RC-10 SURROUNDS
-PSA XV15se
-ONKYO TX-NR3010
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post #53073 of 53079 Old Today, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
What receiver do you have? Some receivers need a firmware update to fix a bug decoding the DD+ audio bitstreams that Netflix sends (there's a whole thread on it).

If you think that could be the issue, try changing your streaming device to output something other than DD+.
Went into PS3 audio settings and un-checked DD+ as an option for audio output. Problem solved immediately! Many thanks!
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post #53074 of 53079 Unread Today, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
I don't have a definitive answer to your question but perhaps some insight can be gleaned from the NRC measurements from the Soundstage review of the RC-70's
Thanks a lot for having taken the time to dig that up. Very interesting.

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Then in the "deviation from linearity" section, again almost perfectly linear at 90dB, at 95dB a bit of compression in the upper bass (80-300Hz) and a teeny bit at high freqs, and at 100dB the deviation looks to be about 2-3dB low... so probably again some compression, so maybe there's something to it.
Yeah deviation from linearity *is* compression right? So compression begins to be noticeable at 100 dB, 2m on their tests.

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Note however that these measurements are at 2m distance, so not nearfield, so you don't have to subract much to get to a standard 3-4m type listening distance.
Well, isn't it 6 dB @ 4m then? so compression would be noticeable at about 94 dB SPL at 4m.

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In that context 95dB is REALLY loud especially for music -- it's likely that they can get to crazy loud music volumes before any strain shows.
That's for sure. But as you added, the question was, can speakers with aluminum dome tweeters reach (HT/movie listening) reference levels without compressing, and since transients can hit 105 dB SPL max, then it's likely the RC-70s would compress in the highs under those conditions; compression should be noticeable above -10 dB from ref (circa 95 dB SPL) at 4 m.

However these measurements were likely done in an anechoic room, so what about boundaries? I'm more familiar with subs now so I have no idea if reflections on surfaces (which are really echoes in the high frequencies) should be included in total level. They could add several dBs to the levels produced by the speakers.

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I don't think it's controversial to say that they aren't the ideal choice if you are looking for dedicated HT speakers capable of easily hitting reference levels.
Ok well I don't listen at reference levels very often -- mostly during "demo nights" and only for short periods (not a whole movie). Regular movie watching occur at much lower levels due to kids sleeping But I can potentially use this as an excuse for an upgrade, which is interesting. That will have to wait a few years though

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post #53075 of 53079 Unread Today, 11:16 AM
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Well, gonna head over this afternoon and pick up a pair. No need for them, just feeling like it's too good a deal to pass on. At least the black ash finish is an actual veneer. I figured that finish wasn't. If I get bored, I may end up stripping them and stain/finish them a nicer color.
My plan now is to go pick them up and set them up as my mains and start them breaking in. Full range, no subs. Shouldn't take long, they will be powered by my Cinenova Grande which is well over 300w/ch.
Then I can start switching back and forth between them and my 2.2i's to see which I prefer better for 2ch music. Source will be cd's through my Oppo BDP-103, into my Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista Tube Dac, into my Parasound Halo C2. A setup that sure has my 2.2i's sounding beautiful.
I will try out a few SACDs and DVD Audio's as well. Can't wait!

60" Panasonic Plasma ~ BenQ HT1075 / 92" fixed Dragonfly Screen ~ Parasound Halo C2 Pre/Pro
Earthquake Sound Cinenova Grande Amplifier ~ Crown X1000 ~ Oppo BDP-103
Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista Tube DAC ~ Monster Cable Signature Series HTPS7000
Energy Veritas 2.2i (mains) & Veritas 2.0c (center) ~ CAT Tiburons (surrounds)
Energy E-XL15s ~ Sub... custom 15" Diamond Audio Technology ~ Xbox One & PS3
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post #53076 of 53079 Unread Today, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
Well, gonna head over this afternoon and pick up a pair. No need for them, just feeling like it's too good a deal to pass on. At least the black ash finish is an actual veneer. I figured that finish wasn't. If I get bored, I may end up stripping them and stain/finish them a nicer color.
My plan now is to go pick them up and set them up as my mains and start them breaking in. Full range, no subs. Shouldn't take long, they will be powered by my Cinenova Grande which is well over 300w/ch.
Then I can start switching back and forth between them and my 2.2i's to see which I prefer better for 2ch music. Source will be cd's through my Oppo BDP-103, into my Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista Tube Dac, into my Parasound Halo C2. A setup that sure has my 2.2i's sounding beautiful.
I will try out a few SACDs and DVD Audio's as well. Can't wait!
Sounds like an awesome setup.
Let us know how they compare.
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post #53077 of 53079 Unread Today, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
Yeah deviation from linearity *is* compression right? So compression begins to be noticeable at 100 dB, 2m on their tests.
That's how I would interpret it. If the the line starts to "sag" from the horizontal (negative deviation) that would indicate the system is compressing.


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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
Well, isn't it 6 dB @ 4m then? so compression would be noticeable at about 94 dB SPL at 4m.

However these measurements were likely done in an anechoic room, so what about boundaries? I'm more familiar with subs now so I have no idea if reflections on surfaces (which are really echoes in the high frequencies) should be included in total level. They could add several dBs to the levels produced by the speakers.
Yeah, every extra meter of distance is about a 3dB drop in SPL. And conversely, room gain will add a few dB. For example, I played around with this SPL calculator and they have a parameter for boundary effects. When you go from "away from walls" to "near a wall" to "in a corner" each step adds 3dB to the calculation.

Obviously there are a lot of variables here, but I think it's fairly safe to conclude that they can play cleanly to VERY loud levels -- loud enough for nearly any music listening for sure -- but unless you have a very small room they are almost certainly compressing at least a little bit on powerful dynamic transient peaks.

Personally, having never had the fortune to seriously A/B test quality systems playing at those types of levels, I'm not sure how audible that bit of compression would really be in a "real world" scenario. It may be virtually inaudible unless you have a really big room. For the typical home setting where you cap out 10-15dB below reference, it's probably a total non issue.

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post #53078 of 53079 Unread Today, 11:54 AM
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So I'm trying to follow this...is tweeter compression the same as distortion? Does this mean my v6.3 are likely not able to play at reference without risking damage to them from distortion? I figure these measurements would be comparable since the v6.3 is similar to the rc70
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post #53079 of 53079 Unread Today, 12:51 PM
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So I'm trying to follow this...is tweeter compression the same as distortion? Does this mean my v6.3 are likely not able to play at reference without risking damage to them from distortion? I figure these measurements would be comparable since the v6.3 is similar to the rc70
Honestly, I'm venturing a bit out of my confort zone right now as I don't know the real technical answers to these kind of questions. I do know that compression and distortion are NOT the same thing, or rather, compression is one type of distortion.

I also don't think it's as simple as saying you are "risking damage" by running them to the point where they are compressing a little bit. There's not some "break point" where suddenly above that point the speaker gets damaged, it's probably a continuum where as you go louder and louder, the speaker experiences more and more strain, and eventually something will hit its thermal/mechanical limits. But that's true for any speaker.

I think rather than over obsessing about it, just use common sense -- if the speakers sounds good, that means it's not at risk of damage. If you were pushing it so hard that it might get damaged, you would probably hear the sound get harsh, painful, etc. And, even if theoretically it compresses a bit during dynamic peaks, they are transient so unlikely to cause any real damage. Now, if you tried to crank music at an average level of 100dB+ continuously for hours, something could overhead and break, but a brief explosion in a movie? probably not.

Interestingly, while searching for measurements on the V6.3 when writing this post (unfortunately I couldn't find any which should that kind of "deviation from linearity" measurement the NRC did) I came across this note in the Audioholics review, relevant to the discussion recently about the grills:

Above [below here] is a ratio plot illustrating the effects of the grille cover on the V-6.3s amplitude response. If the cover were perfectly transparent acoustically, the ratio plot would be as straight as an arrow centered on the horizontal 0 dB axis. As can be seen, the grille cover does have an effect, particularly noticeable in the 3kHz – 20 kHz range. For this review, all critical listening was done with the grill covers removed.


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