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post #721 of 52748 Old 11-23-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryguy View Post

I have the Take 5.1 system in my dedicated home theatre (meaning very little music audio played) and am happy with the sound, but have two questions for you gurus:

Is this the newer type Take series (narrow profile design, with aluminum enclosures)?
http://www.hometheatermag.com/loudspeakers/805energy/

Or are you referring to the older Energy "Take 5"
series?
http://www.avrev.com/equip/energy/
http://www.avrev.com/equip/energytake5/

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Originally Posted by tryguy View Post

1) If I upgraded my centre channel to an AC300 would this provide a decent upgrade in sound quality?

not necessarily. It may give you more extended range (bass response).

However the newer Take series exhibit excellent clarity and transparency, with good imaging. Also, not sure how well the older center would voice-match (although it uses a similiar 1" aluminum dome tweeter).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryguy View Post

2) Where the h3ll do you find mounts for these kinds of speakers? They don't seem to fit normal mounts.

normally this type of rectangular cabinet is designed to be placed on a flat cabinet surface. Also it probably has a standard threaded hole insert in the back to use various ("universal") mounting brackets, for wall-mounting.

Here's a quote, taken from an audioholics review, on the AC300 center speaker:

"Perhaps the most important speaker in a multi-channel surround system is the center channel. Enter the AC-300 from Energy. The AC-300 houses one 1 inch, magnetically shielded aluminum dome tweeter with cloth suspension and two 5 1/2 inch, shielded so called I.M. carbon/mica polypropylene woofers with compression molded N.B.R. surrounds. The AC-300 is a very good center channel for the money. It puts forth a very intelligible dialog never sounding distorted or overly bright. One gripe about the AC-300 is it tended to sound compressed and was easier than some center speakers to pinpoint. This may be more of an attribute of its physical size. We have become so accustomed to listening to center channel speakers with multi driver arrays in a larger cabinet that sometimes the smaller breeds just don't seem to cut it when placed on large RPTV's."
http://www.audioholics.com/productre...rgy_system.php
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post #722 of 52748 Old 11-24-2006, 12:12 AM
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I bought an AC-300 for use as a center speaker, along with my RC-50's, and I am very impressed with the speaker. To my ear it matches very well and is awesome with HT and music. Good range and very clear dialog with movies. Love it.

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post #723 of 52748 Old 11-24-2006, 07:01 AM
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The Energy system I have is the old Take 5.1 listed here:

http://www.avrev.com/equip/energytake5/

I am moving to a 7.1 system now, so I was wondering if I could move the old Take 5.1 speakers to the surround side and back's and upgrade the fronts and centre. That way I could use the AC300 for the centre and get something else for the fronts. Any suggestions that are not ridiculously expensive. I would have no problem buying used as well.

I guess that means the old Take 5.1 centre would become redundant? Is there another use for it or do I just try and sell it for a few bucks?

Thanks again

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post #724 of 52748 Old 11-24-2006, 10:48 AM
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I am really interested in the RC10's. The only negative thing I have read is in a few cases, some people thought the midrange is somewhat recessed. Anyone here feel the same way? I am looking for a more forward presentation
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post #725 of 52748 Old 11-24-2006, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryguy View Post

I am moving to a 7.1 system now, so I was wondering if I could move the old Take 5.1 speakers to the surround side and back's and upgrade the fronts and centre. That way I could use the AC300 for the centre and get something else for the fronts. Any suggestions that are not ridiculously expensive. I would have no problem buying used as well.

Ah, I see. It would definitely be nicer to move to a larger format L-C-R. A good pair of C-3's (or even C-1's or C-5's) would create a decent front surround, and provide better overall dynamics. Just do a search and see what's available.

For example try here:
http://www.audioexcellence.com/index...S&Category=505
They advertise a pair of C-3's ($349.00), and even show a matching C-C1 center ($262.00). May be worth checking into.

So have you already purchased the AC300?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryguy View Post

I guess that means the old Take 5.1 centre would become redundant? Is there another use for it or do I just try and sell it for a few bucks?

These are great little speakers, that look cool. I had these a few years back, they worked great. These should work just fine as surrounds (as long as they're in good condition).
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post #726 of 52748 Old 11-24-2006, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCollins View Post

some people thought the midrange is somewhat recessed. Anyone here feel the same way?

If I were in the market for good book-shelf-type speakers these would be in my top two or three. These speakers sound amazing! especially for the price. No mid-range deficiency.
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post #727 of 52748 Old 11-24-2006, 03:32 PM
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I totally agree with Westcoast, the RC-10's sound terrific. I had them for a couple of months before I upped to the 50's. Wish I kept them though, amazing for their size..midrange was great too........very versatile.

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post #728 of 52748 Old 11-24-2006, 07:53 PM
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hi all is there any difference between the energy Act Cinema speaker system and the Athena Micra 6 system. a lot of there speakers look simular are they?
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post #729 of 52748 Old 11-27-2006, 07:37 AM
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Quote:


hi all is there any difference between the energy Act Cinema speaker system and the Athena Micra 6 system. a lot of there speakers look simular are they?

The label is different, the sub actually is different, port near the top versus near the bottom.
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post #730 of 52748 Old 11-29-2006, 02:42 PM
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If I was trying to use the:

Energy Veritas V2.0CI (in ceiling for surrounds)

and the

Energy Veritas V2.2i Bookshelves for L/C/R

Would these be adequate to fill a "great room" for HT use? (approximate size of room is 23' x 29') or would I be better off to get the RC's???

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post #731 of 52748 Old 11-29-2006, 04:00 PM
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With small speakers for HT you will need a sub to get any decent bass response.

Towers are often preferred for 2 channel music playback.

Your preferences will determine which size is best for you.

IMO, veritas are overkill for HT unless you use very good quality separates as well to get what the speakers are capable of. The convergent source module is a great piece though in the veritas line. And if the exta money is no big deal then why not consider the veritas. YMMV

As for a sub, go into the sub forum and do some reading. Decent HT sub response in a room like that will cost some $$. For HT a sub with deep extension is important IMO to get what many new movies now encode into the sound tracks.

kw........
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post #732 of 52748 Old 11-29-2006, 04:51 PM
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I have the Connoisseur C-9's, C-C3, & RCR's in my home HT and am setting up HT in a townhouse. (which is why the only location is the "great room.")

I forgot to mention that I would also have an Energy 12.3 sub.

I really like my C-9's but do not have room for that style (RCR) of surround in this town-house (the only place is the ceiling). I am considering the Veritas as a dealer friend has some he has offered at what seems to be a "reasonable" price. However I have no experience with the Veritas line and was not sure if speakers of this size would provide adequate power for a HT enviornment (as opposed to an audiophile stereo enviornment).

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post #733 of 52748 Old 11-29-2006, 07:44 PM
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The veritas should play louder cleaner theoretically. More refined tweeters, mids, and drivers. Although in reality, I find the connoisseur line very good playing loud loud volumes. Trying to detect differences in SQ in a HT setup becomes even more difficult to find. And decent amplification is important for decent dynamics at loud volumes. Often it is the amp that hinders SQ at loud volumes from speakers.

The veritas lines uses the same convergent source module in all it's speakers you are looking at, so the mids and highs will be the same specs for output. The towers will play more bass, but it is moot if you crossover the speakers at 60-80 Hz with an AV receiver and use a sub.

So, essentially, it goes back to my first post. Small speakers with sub is good for HT. Towers are often preferred for 2 channel music playback.

I have a full 5.1 veritas line, with 2.4i's as mains. I like the towers for 2 channel music playback.

The 12.3 will be quite weak, IMO, in that room for HT. Don't get me wrong, any sub is a good start, but something much more substantial is needed to get the bass response to keep up with the speakers (and to troll down to HT infrasonic bass)

kw.......
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post #734 of 52748 Old 11-29-2006, 08:02 PM
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The 2.3s not only play louder and lower, cleaner than the 2.2s but have better dynamics because of the increased size and second woofer (by the time you add stands the price differential makes the 2.2s foolish to buy). For a large room the 2.2s are inadequate. You can get used 2.3s for not much over $1000 a pair but get the original receipt because chances are the woofers will freeze up if they haven't been replaced with the ones built like the 2.3i version, the warranty is for 5 years.

I have the RC-LCR as a center it actually works better than the 2.0Ci in my opinion (not much price difference), it isn't quite as good as the 2.3 and cannot keep up with it dynamically or in clarity but is really close from the upper bass up.
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post #735 of 52748 Old 11-29-2006, 08:16 PM
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You don't need fancy hardware to drive the 2.3s I ditched my bi-amp NAD separates I used for the 2.3s and just went with a good receiver for simplicity and to avoid overloading the electrical circuits with the amplifier/space heater NADs. You have to get to the point where your ears start ringing before you start getting distortion from lack of power, especially considering how little power surrounds usually use. I would get a couple more sustainable decibels from the NADs with 2 times the power I use now. I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-56Txi now set to biamp the mains, it drives them just fine in a 5.1 system in a 12*24*7.5 room with an 80 Hertz crossover for HT and full range for most music.
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post #736 of 52748 Old 11-29-2006, 09:25 PM
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KWToxman........

What you recommend in the way of a sub?

I thought the 12.3 was the biggest Energy had?

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post #737 of 52748 Old 11-29-2006, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

I thought the 12.3 was the biggest Energy had?

yeah, the S12.3 (12in woofer, 300W) is the bigger sub in this particular line, and is pretty good for most situations. There are also S8.3 (8in woofer, 100W), and S10.3 (10in woofer, 200W).

I use the S8.3, along with 5.1 RC-Series speaker-set (RC-30 fronts, RC-LCR center, RC-Mini rears), and it's amazing how well this sub works for my room (14 X 16). I live in a small junky apartment.

The new RC-Sub series is supposed to be even better, however, the RC-Sub10 (10in woofer) is the only model available currently. But there is a complete range- ie. RC-Sub8 (1000W), RC-Sub10 (1250W) and RC-Sub12 (1500W). I would imagine if the S12.3 works as good as it does, then the RC-Sub10 should work beautiful for most applications (I would take one in one second).

more info at Energy site:
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/about/news.php?id=305

If you're really hard up for sub's, check out Velodyne, SVS, or even HSU:
http://www.velodyne.com/main.aspx
http://www.svsound.com/index.cfm
http://www.hsuresearch.com/
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post #738 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

yeah, the S12.3 (12in woofer, 300W) is the bigger sub in this particular line, and is pretty good for most situations. There are also S8.3 (8in woofer, 100W), and S10.3 (10in woofer, 200W).

I use the S8.3, along with 5.1 RC-Series speaker-set (RC-30 fronts, RC-LCR center, RC-Mini rears), and it's amazing how well this sub works for my room (14 X 16). I live in a small junky apartment.

The new RC-Sub series is supposed to be even better, however, the RC-Sub10 (10in woofer) is the only model available currently. But there is a complete range- ie. RC-Sub8 (1000W), RC-Sub10 (1250W) and RC-Sub12 (1500W).

more info at Energy site:
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/about/news.php?id=305

If you're really hard up for sub's, check out Velodyne, SVS, or even HSU:
http://www.velodyne.com/main.aspx
http://www.svsound.com/index.cfm
http://www.hsuresearch.com/

I tested the Orb Audio system when I was auditioning speakers. I didn't like the Orb Mod speakers for my main theater room - far too weak in the midrange for my tastes. I did keep some of them for my computer system, where size is important (read small). But the Orb sub I loved. I had an Edge Audio 12" sub (before they became Aperion Audio), but the little Orb sub outperformed the monster Edge and I decided to keep it. They call it the Orb Super8 and it works extremely well in my small home theater room (11x17). It also blends with the 3 RC-LCR's and the 4 RC-R's. Going from the older Edge Audio system to this was like moving from a standard definition TV to my 109" HD screen. It's a whole different world.

Joe Clark

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post #739 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

The 2.3s not only play louder and lower, cleaner than the 2.2s but have better dynamics because of the increased size and second woofer (by the time you add stands the price differential makes the 2.2s foolish to buy). For a large room the 2.2s are inadequate. You can get used 2.3s for not much over $1000 a pair but get the original receipt because chances are the woofers will freeze up if they haven't been replaced with the ones built like the 2.3i version, the warranty is for 5 years.

I have the RC-LCR as a center it actually works better than the 2.0Ci in my opinion (not much price difference), it isn't quite as good as the 2.3 and cannot keep up with it dynamically or in clarity but is really close from the upper bass up.

Again, in real life the 2.3 will not significantly play louder, only lower than the 2.2. Again as has been said the 2.2 has the same mid and tweeter as the 2.3. The 2.3 only has an additional driver for bass response. And if both speakers are crossed over at 80Hz to a sub, then the bass response not much of an issue and the 2.2 will go pretty much as loud as the 2.3.

I have listened to some very impressive HT systems in dedicated rooms and I know more people that think it is best to use bookshelf speakers in HT because well designed HT systems have sub(s) that usually crossover to them at 60-100 Hz.

I find it interesting that you find the veritas centre worse for bass response than the RC centre because the veritas has a dual voice coil design that will keep the driver much more uniform and accurate. I prefer the veritas centre to my ears.

And my power comments was noted because a 40-50 wpc AV receiver will not cut it, IMO for clean loud sound. A flagship AV receiver is pretty good for most people, which I have as well.

kw.....
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post #740 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

KWToxman........

What you recommend in the way of a sub?

I thought the 12.3 was the biggest Energy had?

I'd recommend going with a boutique sub manufacturer. Blending subs does not require timbre matching, so there is no need sticking with energy.

With that room large or multiple subs would be the order of the day. SVS (PB12+/2 is a good start), dual HSU's, Servo V2, etc.

kw.....
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post #741 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 08:25 AM
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The 2.2 plays deep enough with a sub but doesn't have the same dynamic capability as the 2.3. A couple really good subs can make up for most of it but only in the subwoofer's range, not the mid-bass and up which is what we think of as fast tight bass.

I don't really care about loud, just the ability to track the dynamics of the movie or music accurately, you can really hear the difference with the massed cellos and bass in an orchestra or with action movies, it has an edge in that over 80 hertz as well as under. Simple matter of physics, larger cabinet, two drivers instead of one, same ability to move air per driver.

The RC-LCR doesn't have an edge in bass response over the Veritas center but it does image better and the mids are better to me, the wife wouldn't go for the bigger Veritas center anyway, no space for it. They sound more alike than different, the Veritas 2.0C has an edge in bass dynamics but very slight.

But the main point is there isn't enough price difference after buying stands to go for the 2.2s.
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post #742 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 11:58 AM
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys..........

I thought I had read on the back of my 12.3 in Utah that it was 1200W...... ??

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post #743 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 01:42 PM
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The whole power output on subwoofers is a bit confusing to me as manufacturers seem to quote different numbers... In Energy's case they claim the 12.3 is "Using an incredibly powerful 300 Watt RMS, 1200 Watt continuous amplifier."

And the new RC-10 is 1250w........

So is the new RC-10 just 50w more output or 850w additional? What are people quoting... the RMS or the Continuous??

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post #744 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwtoxman View Post

I have listened to some very impressive HT systems in dedicated rooms and I know more people that think it is best to use bookshelf speakers in HT because well designed HT systems have sub(s) that usually crossover to them at 60-100 Hz......

I'm somewhat new to the Home Theater side of things. My latest set-up consists of: RC-30 fronts, RC-LCR center, and RC-Mini rears, with an S8.3 sub. I live in a small apartment, with a smallish living-room (14 X 16). I'm very impressed with the "versatility" of this speaker-set.

When playing DVD-Movies I set my (LFE) cross-over to 100Hz (as the RC-Mini's are limited here) but it really sounds sweet! Great overall depth, nice detailed sound-stage, good clarity with dialogue. The RC-Mini's are impressive with rear surround detail (lateral movement transitions). The sub really blends well and gives just enough "ummmph" when called upon, and can be surprisingly explosive as well (for 8-inch @100W). Although, I think I will switch the RC-Mini rears for RC-10's soon, I prefer to have more range, and versatility to set cross-over down to like 60Hz.

However I listen to music most. The RC-30 fronts handle full-range stereo beautifully. Great bass response with nice sound-stage.

Multi-channel music (SACD's) sound gret as well. I set center and rears for "SMALL", with fronts set for "LARGE", and "NO" sub-woofer, on my Sony (DVP-NS90V) universal player processor set-up. The RC-30's handle full-range bass better, I think, than the sub-woofer for music.

Therefore, for most home situations, I think it's important to consider front towers as part of a 5.1 speaker-set for a "multi-purpose" theater/music system, as they can provide more versatility in a system. Although if I were building a dedicated system for theater (only) I would go with book-shelf speakers all the way around.

So, kwtoxman, you guys freezing your "woofers" off up in Canada these day's?
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post #745 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 03:37 PM
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Great input WestCoastD. I fully agree that towers are the best for any system that also functions on the music side. I have a hybrid two channel/HT system and that is why I have 2.4i's (as an fyi to others, not you westcoastd, because I know you already understand this).

Upgrading to RC10's for rears would be a good step for you I think as well. Getting to a lower crossover frequency will give you the directionality in sound of those frequencies, rather than dumping them to the sub and losing directionality.

Up here in Canada it hasn't been too bad in southern ontario lately. Well above freezing for quite a while. But it is turning more ugly as we type. Maybe snow this weekend.

Any news on your 2 channel preamp ideas?

I've been busy in the 2 channel audiophile side of things. And I've gained a lot of new first hand experience.


kw.........
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post #746 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

The whole power output on subwoofers is a bit confusing to me as manufacturers seem to quote different numbers... In Energy's case they claim the 12.3 is "Using an incredibly powerful 300 Watt RMS, 1200 Watt continuous amplifier."??

you have to carefully read the technical specs, it say's: 300W continuous, and 1200W dynamic peak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

And the new RC-10 is 1250w.......

It's most-likely 300W continuous, 1250W dynamic.

RC-SUB 8 features dual 8 woofers (MSRP of $900.00)
RC-SUB 10 features dual 10 woofers (MSRP of $1,200.00)
RC-SUB 12 features dual 12 woofers (MSRP of $1,600.00)

http://www.avrev.com/news/1005/07.energysub.html

Also, you may want to check out the subwoofer threads.
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post #747 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kwtoxman View Post

Upgrading to RC10's for rears would be a good step for you I think as well. Getting to a lower crossover frequency will give you the directionality in sound of those frequencies, rather than dumping them to the sub and losing directionality.

There is no "directionality" for sound at those frequencies. That's why subs work. And since the best location for stereo imaging is almost never the same as the best location for bass production, I'm not sure that I'd be quickly on board with your suggestion. One really has to examine the room and the dynamics of the sound in it before making a decision like that. Since there's only a very small amount of sub-100Hz sound that ever gets sent to the surround channels, I'd argue that the difference in adding RC-10's might not be all that drastic if noticeable at all. Not to say the RC-10's aren't nicer because of course they are, but adding them to lower the crossovers all around might not be all that detectable. Getting one of those RC-subs might be a better sound-improvement for the system as a whole.
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post #748 of 52748 Old 11-30-2006, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kwtoxman View Post

Any news on your 2 channel preamp ideas?.......

yeah, I've still got brand-new stuff in boxes, spread out everywhere. Anyway, have'nt got to try my new NAD C162 pre-amp (with my NAD C272 amp) yet, but I can't wait.

Still waiting to get a new audio rack set-up. I've been hung-up partly with dimensions, and product type. After counting all my pieces in my system I'm realizing I need a minimum of like 6 shelves- 5 for my components, and 1 space under the TV for a center speaker. At least this is the way I would like it. However, at the same time I don't want my TV too high up on top of the rack (especially living in earthquake land).

So I was planning to go with this two-shelf BDI stand. My 32in flat-screen TV would sit on top, and my RC-LCR would go below. This stand would be dead-center position in my room.
http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/axis_8023.shtml

Then I would use this multi-shelf BDI rack to hold all my components. It would sit to the side of the other rack. My front speakers would be positioned on either side. My sub-woofer positioned on the outside of either speaker.
http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/axis_8022.shtml

I really like BDI product, it's very nice. Beautiful form & function, great quality (maybe a little pricey). Based on sturdy frame-like construction. They are fairly easy to assemble and configure. They can be moved around easier than others.
Also, the shelves have greater weight capacity than my current Bello horizontal style rack.

What all this means is a lot of [physical] re-shuffling of everything- basically a lot of work! And I want to do it right, once! I also work a very crazy schedule, so [time] is another problem.

I think this configuration will provide much more versatility for future product/component changes.

I'm also seriously considering buying a good multi-channel amp (probably 5-channel), to replace my NAD C272 (150W X 2). Been looking at all kinds- ie. Cary Cinema 5, Cinenova Grand 5, Bryston 9B-SST, Adcom GFA-7605, Krell Theater Amplifier Standard, and others.,...I really would like to have 5 channels of equal, efficient, and clean robust power. Also, this will allow me to switch around pre-pro configurations- from my Yamaha RX-V2700/NAD C162 combo to a full dedicated HT pre-pro. We'll see (how my money goes)................
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post #749 of 52748 Old 12-01-2006, 12:48 AM
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I'm upgrading my computer's audio system from the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 to an integrated amp + subwoofer + bookshelf speaker setup. I've got a really nice vintage Fisher amp (100 watts per channel) and a Velodyne VX-10 subwoofer. I've always loved Energy speakers and wanted some advice from the experts. I have a pair of Connoisseur C-1 bookshelf speakers, but was curious about the C-100. Is the C-100 a significant improvement over the C-1?

Thanks for any replies!
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post #750 of 52748 Old 12-01-2006, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jswriter View Post

Is the C-100 a significant improvement over the C-1?

I have a complete [new] 5.1 C-Series speaker-set (C-300 fronts, C-C100 center, C-200 and C-50 rears). I used them along with a Yamaha RX-V2600, they sounded pretty good overall. Home Theater surround performance was surprisingly good- great clarity, excellent bass response. Stereo music sources (CD's) were mostly "okay"- really good sound-stage, great bass response, however not as "clean" sounding (on the high-end) as other models it seems. Or maybe I should say every source varied- depending on source recording quality. Also, I found that better amplification made a noticeable difference (ie. after I switched to a separate amp).

All I can say is that these speakers are definitely worth their price. Good design and fabrication. As far as comparing them to the C-1's, it would be difficult to verbalize. Although, I think you would be happy using them for the purpose you're describing.

I've owned C-1's in the past (actually I passed them down to my son), they really were nice sounding. My son say's his friends are always impressed with how his speakers sound.

I use complete [new] RC-Series set now, definitely a step above the previous Connoisseur and new C-Series, I think.

You may also want to consider the new RC-Mini's, these speakers are un-believeably good:
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/pr...ine.php?id=318
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