Energy Owners Thread - Page 252 - AVS Forum
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post #7531 of 52764 Old 03-07-2009, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Yep, I agree but I still wouldn't call #2 'bi-amping'...

Yes, I know what you're doing, and it's bi-wiring, not bi-amping. Like I mentioned (and the reason I mentioned it) is you need a 'separate' power supply. Your receiver only has ONE power supply.

You need to stop propagating your personal beliefs and biases as some kind of fact. Passive bi-amping is bi-amping, not bi-wiring, plain and simple. Your assertion that there is only one power supply in a receiver just shows that you're not very up to date on modern receiver design which employs multiple independent power amps with different transformers and capacitor banks inside the single receiver.

If it were bi-wiring, you could leave the shorting posts in place without issue because the power supply was the same. Passively bi-amp a speaker and try leaving the shorting straps in... obviously, they'll zap each other dead because they're different power supplies and will short each other out.
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post #7532 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 12:22 AM
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Enough already with the bi-amping/bi-wiring LOL !!!!!
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post #7533 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You want the surrounds higher up so they get diffuse and don't give sound that is too directional. The ideal placement for surrounds in a 5.1 setup is on the side walls, maybe 20-degrees behind the main listening spot and a few feet above ear level (6ft high or so). I think either setting (side or rear) will work fine, but if possible I would go with side wall. On my friend's setup we used little Take satellites and had to mount them on the rear wall -- they are about 6-7 ft high and pointed straight forward, but because the tweeters are up well above ear level they provide a nice diffuse sound (lots of reflected sound off the ceiling) and create a very convincing surround sound. So if you have to go with rear-wall placement it's not a big loss, it can work just fine either way.

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/ca/learningcenter/home/HT/speakerplacement-5-1.gif[/IMG]

Many Thanks Batpig for your help. I finally figured out how to use my old Pioneer VSX-D901S to break in my new speakers until my Denon AVR-2309CI arrives. You were right about the modes and I was able to lower the center channel (found the test tones and center channel on the remote). For now I set it up in phantom center and left the center speaker disconnected.
The side surrounds are set at -4db. Is this correct or should I increase or decrease them. On the receiver I see that the amplitude bars on the receiver that indicate the input source volume on each FM channel show the front speakers are getting about twice the input as the surrounds. I am running in ProLogic mode.
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post #7534 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatboyCykes View Post

I haven't received anything buy my sub, but I'm already trying to talk the wife into letting me order some c-300's and use the already ordered c-100's as surrounds. Dang this site, dang this site to heck!

Try your C-100s first. You can always order the C-300 later......and stop druling.
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post #7535 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundlovr View Post

You need to stop propagating your personal beliefs and biases as some kind of fact. Passive bi-amping is bi-amping, not bi-wiring, plain and simple. Your assertion that there is only one power supply in a receiver just shows that you're not very up to date on modern receiver design which employs multiple independent power amps with different transformers and capacitor banks inside the single receiver.

If it were bi-wiring, you could leave the shorting posts in place without issue because the power supply was the same. Passively bi-amp a speaker and try leaving the shorting straps in... obviously, they'll zap each other dead because they're different power supplies and will short each other out.

Hey - don't get hostile. My personal beliefs is irrelevant. Look up Bi-amping for yourself. If you don't do true bi-amping, you're wasting your time and money as like bi-wiring it offers no sonic benefit. And I really hate using the word "true" as bi-amping is bi-amping, what you see now is a bastardization of it. Ask an audiophile about bi-amping. Go ahead (a) - they don't use cheap receivers lol).

BTW - how many power plugs do you have suppling your receiver with power?

"it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it"
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post #7536 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 11:07 AM
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I agree. Let's try to keep the negativity to a minimum. One of the reasons I like this thread so much is the tone - very civilized and positive.

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post #7537 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generallee View Post

Try your C-100s first. You can always order the C-300 later......and stop druling.

Heh right? The problem is actually that I didn't think I would be able to run surrounds as my room just isn't ideal to do it, mainly the decor. But with a few of the past remarks regarding rear mounting of side surround speakers, I'm encouraged a bit more to try it out.
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post #7538 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

BTW - how many power plugs do you have suppling your receiver with power?

How many power plugs do you figure you need to run an active bi-amp? The number of power sources is not counted by the number of plugs in the wall (one plug provides more AC current than you could ever push to any speaker), but by how many transformer/capacitor groups lead into the speaker providing power that the speaker can actually use.
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post #7539 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundlovr View Post

How many power plugs do you figure you need to run an active bi-amp? The number of power sources is not counted by the number of plugs in the wall (one plug provides more AC current than you could ever push to any speaker), but by how many transformer/capacitor groups lead into the speaker providing power that the speaker can actually use.

More importantly, what is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
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post #7540 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 08:04 PM
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Kind of nervous because I never got to listen before purchasing (only real option for auditioning electronics is Best Buy), but based on this thread and the prices I purchased a c-c100, 2 pairs of c100, and a pair of c300s.

I now have a couple of newb questions.
1) I have some 18 gauge speaker wire, and according to the roger russell chart my span should be ok (less than 32 feet), would I notice a difference if I bought something bigger? (from monoprice of course)
2) In my current entertainment center the center speaker will be a tight fit, will that matter?
3) Any advise for some speaker mounts that would let me mount the c100's one foot from the wall facing 90 degrees away?
4) Can I use an old mini hifi sony player (sony MHC-310AV) to break in my speakers while I choose a receiver (at reasonable volumes of course)? Its current speakers are 8 ohm. Will it hurt the speakers or the system?

Thanks for helping me out.

This thread has been good, expensive but good!
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post #7541 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by FatboyCykes View Post

More importantly, what is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Which, an African or European Swallow?
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post #7542 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 10:29 PM
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I should be getting my ACT6 system delivered Thurs. or so. Questions: Do the satellites accept banana plugs or bare wire only? It's tough to tell from the manual I downloaded. Also, is 14AWG the max wire size they can take? I want to order my wire today so it will be here by the time the speakers arrive. Thanks for any replies
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post #7543 of 52764 Old 03-08-2009, 11:09 PM
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Quick update on my C-100/C-C100 system.

I picked up a new Yamaha RX-V465 AV receiver yesterday from our local Ultimate Electronics. I bought it without reading any reviews, something I don't usually do. It was brand new to the store (only up for about 24 hours). It's a 105wps 5.1 receiver that has Bluetooth, DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD decoding, as well as 4 HDMI inputs (with audio delay). It also has independent remote selection of inputs. At $330, I was prepared to have to take it back. Surprise! I like it a lot.

My Orb sub problem turned out to be a dead sub. Buddy of a buddy is taking a look at it for me. Fortunately, I had two. The other one went into the room with the C-100s and the new C-C100. The Yamaha has a 7.1 stereo listening mode that I really like for music. I threw a ton of stuff at it today, and it's a much sweeter sound than the 5-6 year old Pioneer receiver I had running the Energy's before. Part of it is probably that the Energy's just keep getting better as I put more hours on them, but the Yamaha is a significant improvement, especially on the high end.

As I suspected, the C-100s and the Orb 8" sub are a potent combination. The Yamaha also has a YPAO auto EQ system that tames the bad acoustics somewhat, though I still have a lot of work to do to mellow the 11x11x8 plasterboard room.

Thought I'd share my limited experience with the Yamaha receiver, since I know some folks here are looking for one to go with their new Energy's. For such an inexpensive unit, it's really surprised me. It's not 7.1, and it doesn't have any video processing, but it's just what i was looking for for this room. It's a bargain, too.

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post #7544 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatboyCykes View Post

My c100 mains, wish I could get the c300's but with a 2 year old still cruising around, I felt safer with the bookshelves. Something I will regret in a few years time I have no doubt.

It's funny you say this, as this is the exact opposite decision I made when opting for the C-300s.

I had a pair of bookshelves for my fronts, but after auditioning a few different speaker stands I decided that they weren't safe enough for my 2 year old as the speakers aren't attached to the stands, they just sit on top. As a result, I elected to go with the C-300s. Yes, he could (and has come close to) push them over if he wanted to but at least they are one piece and shouldn't fall back on top of him.
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post #7545 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 10:55 AM
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I also received my C-300 package from wwstereo.com this weekend. Shipping via UPS Ground must have been rough...the boxes were almost all damaged in some way. Not a single box had all of the Styrofoam in tact inside. Luckily, all of the speakers were in pretty good shape...(one tiny corner of one of the C-300s was nicked a bit, but no biggie).

I paired these things (c-300, c-50 center and c-50 surrounds) with a Harman/Kardon 254 which I just picked up as well and a ASW-8 sub. HOLY CRAP, what a difference. I was coming from a 9 year old Panasonic HTIB and it's ridiculous how much better the sound is. I mean, obviously, if you spend $1,000 bucks on a equipment it SHOULD sound better, but this is above and beyond what I expected. Sure, they probably aren't the best speakers in the world, but for the price, I am so ridiculously happy.

Thanks to EVERYONE in this thread who recommended the Energy line of speakers. I probably never would have given them a shot had I not read about them here.

It's much appreciated!
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post #7546 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 11:33 AM
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BTW...question.

If I thought the C50s were too big to mount up on the wall behind my couch, would the Orbs be a good fit as rear surrounds, or would the tonal balance be off?
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post #7547 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKORTech View Post

I should be getting my ACT6 system delivered Thurs. or so. Questions: Do the satellites accept banana plugs or bare wire only? It's tough to tell from the manual I downloaded. Also, is 14AWG the max wire size they can take? I want to order my wire today so it will be here by the time the speakers arrive. Thanks for any replies

no bananas
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post #7548 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 12:25 PM
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Energy's would be a better fit but if you must get something that small the Orbs will be fine. Since they are surrounds its not as critical as matching the front 3 speakers.

Have you looked at the Take2 speakers? They're quite a bit smaller than the Energy C-50 and come with wall mounts. Here are some in white.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Energy-Speakers-...rms=240%3A1318

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post #7549 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 12:28 PM
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just to clarify, the original Take 2 do NOT come with wall mounts, but they can be hung flush on a bolt with their simple keyhole-screw mount. I bought those exact new-in-box white ones from WWStereo for my friend's surround speakers so I can say for a fact they don't come with wall mounts.

The 2nd-gen Take 2.2 do come with wall mounts.

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post #7550 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 12:57 PM
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Ahh, the link is confusing. They advertise Take 2 satellites but then show a picture of Take 2.2 satellites which do come with brackets.

They need to clear than up.

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post #7551 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 01:06 PM
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ah you are correct. They sell them both in fact, the original Take 2 are $79 shipped and the white Take 2.2 are $99 shipped. Good catch.

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post #7552 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 01:11 PM
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I think I want to go with some black rears though as they'd match everything else. It's tough to find some Take 2 satellites in black (they aren't available on ebay).
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post #7553 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbdynsty25 View Post

BTW...question.

If I thought the C50s were too big to mount up on the wall behind my couch, would the Orbs be a good fit as rear surrounds, or would the tonal balance be off?

The Orbs are great little speakers. Extremely accurate. What they lack is any kind of midrange impact, and they get lost in a large room.

I've seen them being used in recording studios, but with other speakers to supplement the midrange. They wouldn't work as mains for me (or most people, I would guess), but they could be good surrounds.

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post #7554 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 01:16 PM
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Since the Orbs cost $239/pr. You could get a 5.0 Energy Take Classic setup for $199. Then you'd have 4 surrounds in case you want to go 7.1.

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/

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post #7555 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Since the Orbs cost $239/pr. You could get a 5.0 Energy Take Classic setup for $199. Then you'd have 4 surrounds in case you want to go 7.1.

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/

That's a damn good point. I'll have to think about that one. Then I could use the C50s as my main's in my office and the center channel from the Takes. Hmmm...thanks for the tip.

I'm just slightly concerned about buying from wwstereo again. I mean it's not their fault, but ground shipping from PA to CA was brutal on my C300 set. Like I mentioned before, none of the four boxes made it without damage. F'n UPS.
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post #7556 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 01:24 PM
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My sub came from PA to CA in perfect condition.

Plus the Takes are smaller speakers and all come in one rectangular box.

Or find a local closing Circuit City. People have been getting the Take Classic for $240 including sub.

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post #7557 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

My sub came from PA to CA in perfect condition.

Plus the Takes are smaller speakers and all come in one rectangular box.

Or find a local closing Circuit City. People have been getting the Take Classic for $240 including sub.

Circuit City's last day was yesterday and all they had of value were some USB2 cables.

I agree the Takes would probably be a better fit for surrounds than the Orbs, and certainly cheaper.

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post #7558 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 01:34 PM
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Ok, another question for the vets. IF, big if, I do get the c300's, they will be mounted almost right next to the tv, as opposed to underneath the TV. I'm not quite sure how it will look in person, but in my head it doesn't look that bad. I know that the tweeters of the center and mains are supposed to be pretty level, but obviously with this set up they wouldn't be. Doing this will keep them off the floor and out of the two year olds path. They would likely stay up there for a few years or until we can figure out a safe way out of this upside down mortgage we're sitting on and into a bigger house. What do you guys think? I'll post a pic below, there are two "decorative" pieces of wood that would be replaced with the c300's, the top of the c300's would be about 1" below the top of the TV, center channel underneath. How bad of an idea is this?

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post #7559 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 01:37 PM
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Where’s the best (cheapest) place to buy RC-Minis?

Thanks
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post #7560 of 52764 Old 03-09-2009, 02:11 PM
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I think i'd just stick with C-100s and C-C100 center in your setup. Those will all easily fit on top of that dresser. I think towers on top would look strange but it's your house, do what suits you best.

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