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post #9361 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric-t View Post

I believe they should be a least 2 feet above you're listing area. I would mount them in line with you're rear listing area or just slightly forward. They will fill the area more then front firing surround speakers.

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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

2-3 above ear level and slightly behind the seating area. you actually have a space that should work really nicely for bipolar surrounds. you definitely want them ABOVE ear level though to avoid localization and increase the "spaciousness" of the surround effect.

dolby labs recommends the surrounds be about 10-20 degrees behind the main listening position:
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_e...omlayout2.html

Big thanks fellas. I assumed they should be a little off from your ear, but I wasn't sure how much. That gives me a good idea. Too bad my C-C100 shipment got screwed up between buy.com and Fedex or I'd have my full set by this weekend and could fire them all up (somehow fedex says they don't have the package but buy.com thinks that the center channel is in transit ). This will be my first upgrade from a Sony HTIB. I need to get a better sub and receiver but this will be a big start. I'll try to post back my 2 cents on how the C-R100s work in my style of room.
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post #9362 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ON IN II View Post

I am sure everyone will agree with me that batbig is not only "Mr. Energy" for all his knowledge about their product but also "Mr. Hi-Fi" for his wealth of knowledge in every other area of electronics.

I wouldn't call myself very "Hi-Fi" as I have a fairly modest budget setup! Most of the info I have is regurgitated from having read it elsewhere. Mostly I'm just a tech/gadget geek who is obsessive about learning, and has plenty of free time at work to surf the internet and read about what I'm interested in. Then I can parrot back what I have read on the internet for the benefit of others. The fact that it makes me appear to know more than I actually do is just a side benefit

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
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http://batpigworld.com/

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post #9363 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I wouldn't call myself very "Hi-Fi" as I have a fairly modest budget setup! Most of the info I have is regurgitated from having read it elsewhere. Mostly I'm just a tech/gadget geek who is obsessive about learning, and has plenty of free time at work to surf the internet and read about what I'm interested in. Then I can parrot back what I have read on the internet for the benefit of others. The fact that it makes me appear to know more than I actually do is just a side benefit

Well you put all the information that I need out on just about every thread I read. I'll see you on the Denon thread, then on a sub thread then here on the Energy thread and I think 'holy hell' where does this guy get the time to do all this research and post all this information! Whether or not you are an expert is of no concern to me. Just happy that you put the information out in an easy to understand format. Plus your Denon manual is great! You are much appreciated and keep it up!
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post #9364 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 12:09 PM
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Any possibility of running the Sats without a sub? (Creative, but possibly crazy, idea below)

I'll be receiving my Take 5 Classic without the subwoofer from WWstereo tomorrow.
The problem is, I don't have my ESW-8 sub yet (it's still "shipping" from an Amazon affiliate and may not come for a week or two). I saved a hundred bucks ordering it this way, but now...
I know I should just be patient and do nothing until the sub comes, but do I have any other options?

Here's one I came up with, let me know if it's crazy.

1) Plug all the sats into the receiver and tell the receiver there is a sub even though there isn't one

2) Set the crossover on all channels to something reasonable (say 120ish) to avoid damaging the sats

Okay, if I understand correctly, at this point I would have a system that didn't play anything below 120Hz... probably pretty tinny sounding, now...

3) Use the stereo preouts on my receiver (Yamaha 565) to plug into another receiver that I have lying around (10+ year old Sony)

4) Attach a Bose Acoustimass Bass-module that I have lying around into the second receiver using regular left/right speaker wires (the only connection option on the BM)

Then I should have some sort of Frankenstein sub/sat system, right? I could even use the volume on the second receiver to adjust the "sub" level.

The only other option I could come up with is to run the front two Take sats using the Bose Bass module (as if they were Bose cubes) and then set the rear and center sats as "small" in the receiver (that is to say, all low frequencies would be sent to the front two channels, which the Bose Bass-Module would separate out; the receiver would think the front 2 speakers were "large" and that there was no sub, and the Bose bass-module would handle the crossover), but something tells me that might not be a good idea? (not sure what that bass module is really doing after all, I read somewhere that it might mess with impedance going out to the cubes or something? I dunno...)

I don't want to damage my new Take 5 sats, and I know that I'm impatient, so if someone could let me know if I'm going down a dangerous track, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Oh, and I have included two diagrams of the two possible setups, because a picture is worth a 1000 words as they say, so here's 2000 words:
LL
LL

Energy Speakers' specs spreadsheet.

Corrections or additions? Please PM me and I will edit the document.
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post #9365 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

It's not a comparison that anyone has likely made directly. The RC70 is a huge tower speaker, and the Focus is Dynaudio's mid-line compact bookshelf speaker, and they occupy two completely different markets. The cheapest Dynaudio speaker is still very pricey.

What I like about almost all Dynaudio speakers is their ability to image extremely well, and also sound very detailed but without the harshness or metalic sound you sometimes get with metal dome tweeters, but also without sounding too polite. For me, this is a very hard thing to do, and that's why Dynaudio is often recommended for fatigue free listening. They sound balanced, which is a trait I like in Energy speakers.

From my auditions, the 140 will sound much like the RC10, but just a bit more detailed throughout, and slightly deeper bass. Due to its size, the 140 can't compete against a large speaker like the RC70 for dynamics or sheer impact, but the 140 does sound pretty impressive for its size. You might also want to consider the cheaper line of Dynaudio (Excite), which is still pricier than the RC' but would be closer in line with Energy. Because Dynaudio isn't heavily discounted, they will seem like relatively poor value compared to Energy (which as I said, is a sheer bargain for their sale prices)

Whether they are worth the extra premium, that's only something you can decide. Very often, paying a lot more will buy you very subtle improvements. If you can appreciate those improvements, then it may be worth it to you. If you compare a good $600 bookshelf speaker to another good $1200 bookshelf speaker, they both sound good but that extra $600 will buy you very small improvements that the designers sweated over. Just looking at the post above mine, you see that one person found the C series very good even compared to the Veritas, so clearly there is diminishing returns jumping to the Veritas

How about the RC-70 against the Dyaudio Focus 220 towers? Anyone A/B these? The latter cost almost twice as much....
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post #9366 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

Any possibility of running the Sats without a sub? (Creative, but possibly crazy, idea below)

I'll be receiving my Take 5 Classic without the subwoofer from WWstereo tomorrow.
The problem is, I don't have my ESW-8 sub yet (it's still "shipping" from an Amazon affiliate and may not come for a week or two). I saved a hundred bucks ordering it this way, but now...
I know I should just be patient and do nothing until the sub comes, but do I have any other options?

Here's one I came up with, let me know if it's crazy.

1) Plug all the sats into the receiver and tell the receiver there is a sub even though there isn't one

2) Set the crossover on all channels to something reasonable (say 120ish) to avoid damaging the sats

Okay, if I understand correctly, at this point I would have a system that didn't play anything below 120Hz... probably pretty tinny sounding, now...

3) Use the stereo preouts on my receiver (Yamaha 565) to plug into another receiver that I have lying around (10+ year old Sony)

4) Attach a Bose Acoustimass Bass-module that I have lying around into the second receiver using regular left/right speaker wires (the only connection option on the BM)

Then I should have some sort of Frankenstein sub/sat system, right? I could even use the volume on the second receiver to adjust the "sub" level.

The only other option I could come up with is to run the front two Take sats using the Bose Bass module (as if they were Bose cubes) and then set the rear and center sats as "small" in the receiver (that is to say, all low frequencies would be sent to the front two channels, which the Bose Bass-Module would separate out; the receiver would think the front 2 speakers were "large" and that there was no sub, and the Bose bass-module would handle the crossover), but something tells me that might not be a good idea? (not sure what that bass module is really doing after all, I read somewhere that it might mess with impedance going out to the cubes or something? I dunno...)

I don't want to damage my new Take 5 sats, and I know that I'm impatient, so if someone could let me know if I'm going down a dangerous track, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Oh, and I have included two diagrams of the two possible setups, because a picture is worth a 1000 words as they say, so here's 2000 words:

Set the system up and tell it you have a sub. Set the crossover on the Take satellites to 100hz or 120hz.

The problem is that it wont sound very good w/o a sub. When integrated properly with a subwoofer the Take Classic does pretty well as a sub/sat system. Without the sub you'll really notice the limitations of the speakers. Hopefully you won't have to wait too long for the ESW-8 to arrive

Did you get the subwoofer from Audio Advisor?

Afro GT
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post #9367 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

3) Use the stereo preouts on my receiver (Yamaha 565) to plug into another receiver that I have lying around (10+ year old Sony)

4) Attach a Bose Acoustimass Bass-module that I have lying around into the second receiver using regular left/right speaker wires (the only connection option on the BM)

Then I should have some sort of Frankenstein sub/sat system, right? I could even use the volume on the second receiver to adjust the "sub" level.

I don't think that will work. How do you plan to connect the two receivers so the sub plays along side your sats? It doesn't work the same way as attaching an external amp, atleast not that I'm aware of, correct me if I'm wrong?
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post #9368 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 03:02 PM
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Just made the purchase on audio advisor's for 2 c-300. Emailed them and they only have like 8 pairs left (as of earlier today). Only thing sucks is the c-c100 i got was black but no big deal i guess.....If they had sold out of these would the CF line of towers go with the c-c100 or is that not really a good match?
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post #9369 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 04:44 PM
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The CF line would go better with the new CC-10 center. All those new speakers are signficantly more expensive than the outgoing C-series on sale though.

Afro GT
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post #9370 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 05:12 PM
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And after much lurking and pondering over the last 30 days, with a budget of 1k for speakers, AVR and Blu-ray (with a pre-existing Panny 42PX60U) I will be setting up as rec'd over the next week:

Energy Take-5.1 Classics $330 shipped - ebay (open box)
Denon 789: $450 shipped - ebay (new)
Panasonic: $218 shipped - amazon (refurb)

How'd I do? Am I going to have fun?

Query: I have some legacy Klipsch 2.2v speakers. Would it make any sense to try and integrate as front surrounds for 7.1, or would they throw off the Energys?
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post #9371 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 05:19 PM
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Someone snagged a pair of 2 month old mint RC-30's (rosenut) today off audiogon for $499 SHIPPED

I have been watching them, wanting to buy them...but held off. Hell of a deal for whoever bought them.
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post #9372 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lopester02 View Post

Just made the purchase on audio advisor's for 2 c-300. Emailed them and they only have like 8 pairs left (as of earlier today). Only thing sucks is the c-c100 i got was black but no big deal i guess....

Hello.
You could sand the cherry layer off and paint the speaker black. I don't think it would look very good though if you just painted over the stuck-on stuff. Or you could apply some black-colored veneer-looking vinyl over the cherry color if you could find it anywhere. I don't know where you could come up with that.
It would be a tedious, time-consuming thing to undertake to do it right. But if you can't buy a black one but you want a black one, it's an option.
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post #9373 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Someone snagged a pair of 2 month old mint RC-30's (rosenut) today off audiogon for $499 SHIPPED

I have been watching them, wanting to buy them...but held off. Hell of a deal for whoever bought them.

I grabbed a pair of cherry RC-Minis from Vanns last night for $239.98 thanks to your post. For my bedroom I now have RC-10's front, RC-Mini Center, RC-Mini Surrounds, and a Mirage S8 Sub. All for right at $1000 delivered. Tiny speakers...HUGE sound!

For the living room I've got 4 C-100's, a C-C100 Center, and a tSc ASW-10 Sub, all for under $450 delivered. I'm quite pleased with myself!

I'm looking into a Rocketfish wireless system for the rear speakers right now. Any thoughts?
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post #9374 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 05:53 PM
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Which of the new Energy speakers comes closest to the RC-10 sonically? I notice the ribbed eliptical drivers on the CF towers.

Joe Clark

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post #9375 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 06:54 PM
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Well guys Santa came a little early here....





Grills on:





Grills off:






Ok, I took a picture of my couch setup thats facing the TV. Anyone have any opinions on where to mount the C-R100s before I do it. Thanks



Sight and Sound
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post #9376 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 07:08 PM
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I am so disappointed I missed out on the $399 wwstereo Ebay deal. I've been waiting on some money to come in from a job before I made the purchase. Is there anything even close in price elsewhere?
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post #9377 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 07:15 PM
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Go HERE for your C-300's
and HERE for your C-C100

If you want C-100's for surrounds go HERE
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post #9378 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth C View Post

I am so disappointed I missed out on the $399 wwstereo Ebay deal. I've been waiting on some money to come in from a job before I made the purchase. Is there anything even close in price elsewhere?


If you don't mind cherry...

C-300 tower $130ea
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

C-C50 center $70
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-C-C50-C...9934330&sr=1-1

Unfortunately the C-50 only comes in black. $99/pr

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/

Total cost $430 shipped. That's not a bad deal.

I wouldn't wait too long though. Audio Advisor only has 8 pairs or less left of the C-300s according to an earlier post.

Afro GT
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post #9379 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 07:19 PM
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C-100's are only $18 more than the C-50's. The C-C100 is $45 more. Worth the upgrade I'd say.
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post #9380 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

good to see you back in the Energy thread

Please do compare the Studio 10 to the RC-10 for us. Thanks!

I can't really go into much detail because it's been a while since I've been around RC10s, but I will say that the Paradigm is a brighter, more clinical sounding speaker. It tends to be really good at extracting low level detail, which is great for late night TV use. The RC10 is slightly more laid back, but at the same time, I would say it's a punchier sounding speaker overall, better for music overall just because it is smooth and seductive. Overall, I think the Energy very well compares to the Studio 10, with just a slightly different interpretation (neither being truly wrong). I had compared the previous Studio 20 V4 to the RC10 and I picked the RC10 at that time.

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post #9381 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Someone snagged a pair of 2 month old mint RC-30's (rosenut) today off audiogon for $499 SHIPPED

I have been watching them, wanting to buy them...but held off. Hell of a deal for whoever bought them.

audio advisor has some rc-30s for cheaper than that.
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post #9382 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fears4Ears View Post

I grabbed a pair of cherry RC-Minis from Vanns last night for $239.98 thanks to your post. For my bedroom I now have RC-10's front, RC-Mini Center, RC-Mini Surrounds, and a Mirage S8 Sub. All for right at $1000 delivered. Tiny speakers...HUGE sound!

I bought a pair as well. We will have the EXACT same speaker/sub setup.
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post #9383 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by subiefast View Post

audio advisor has some rc-30s for cheaper than that.

True...but only in black, and shipping is not included in the price.
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post #9384 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

If you don't mind cherry...

C-300 tower $130ea
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

C-C50 center $70
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-C-C50-C...9934330&sr=1-1

Unfortunately the C-50 only comes in black. $99/pr

http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/..._84__0_0_0_-1/

Total cost $430 shipped. That's not a bad deal.

I wouldn't wait too long though. Audio Advisor only has 8 pairs or less left of the C-300s according to an earlier post.



I had the C-50's/C-C50 in cherry and have to say... Energy's vinyl faux cherry looks surprisingly nice...
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post #9385 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

True...but only in black, and shipping is not included in the price.

oops, yeah. I thought I saw them in all finishes.
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post #9386 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 08:41 PM
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Anybody done a comparison on rc-minis vs c-100? I'm toying with the idea right now. I'm trying to figure out what i want to do with tax return money. I have c-c100, and c-100s in my bedroom right now. If the rc-mins are an upgrade, that might not be a bad idea.
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post #9387 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by subiefast View Post

Anybody done a comparison on rc-minis vs c-100? I'm toying with the idea right now. I'm trying to figure out what i want to do with tax return money. I have c-c100, and c-100s in my bedroom right now. If the rc-mins are an upgrade, that might not be a bad idea.

F that, you need to put these on your desk CLIKY

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post #9388 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

I bought a pair as well. We will have the EXACT same speaker/sub setup.

I got the RC-10's for the bedroom and will put my C-100/C-C100s in the living room because I listen to ALL my music in my bedroom. Although plenty of people have chosen the C-C100 over the C-C50 for fronts for more fullness I decided to get the Mini center because I'm hoping it will give me more definition at lower volumes with all the sound-absorbing materials inherent in a bedroom. I would think the RC-LCR would overwhelm the RC-10's at the volume it would take to get the tweeters at the same level.

Same with the S8 sub. I have it on my right channel and the tSc ASW-10 on the left on my Pro-Logic setup and and I can hear the boominess and rattling pan to the left as the freqs travel downwards at high volumes. But at more reasonable levels the S8 seems to blend in a lot better. I've been looking into getting a couple Subdudes but the S8 is so tight I'm not sure it would make any difference on a carpeted concrete floor.

In other words I'm looking to get those sweet RC tweeters working for me so I can understand the dialog and hear the upper freqs at lower bedroom-type volumes.
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post #9389 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefast View Post

Anybody done a comparison on rc-minis vs c-100? I'm toying with the idea right now. I'm trying to figure out what i want to do with tax return money. I have c-c100, and c-100s in my bedroom right now. If the rc-mins are an upgrade, that might not be a bad idea.

I have not done a comparison. The only "problem" I see with that idea is that the mini's don't extend very low. While the specs state 80Hz @ -3dB...the rolloff starts up around 120Hz or so (according to some owner's who have done SPL measurements with test tones)....so the 80Hz spec is in-room best case scenario.

The mini's should be crossed as 120Hz or higher. The rc-mini center - you can probably get away with 100-120Hz (I use 100Hz and it seems to work fine).

The higher the crossover setting - the more you can localize your subwoofer. If the sub is right beside, or even better, somewhere between the mains...you can probably get away with it just fine.

With the C-100/C-C100 setup, you should be perfectly fine crossing at 80Hz - so sub localization is not as issue.

I guess it depends what is more important to you:
Better detail and clarity with the RC-mini's or more mid-bass power and extension with the C-100's.
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post #9390 of 52293 Old 04-16-2009, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

I have not done a comparison. The only "problem" I see with that idea is that the mini's don't extend very low. While the specs state 80Hz @ -3dB...the rolloff starts up around 120Hz or so (according to some owner's who have done SPL measurements with test tones)....so the 80Hz spec is in-room best case scenario.

The mini's should be crossed as 120Hz or higher. The rc-mini center - you can probably get away with 100-120Hz (I use 100Hz and it seems to work fine).

The higher the crossover setting - the more you can localize your subwoofer. If the sub is right beside, or even better, somewhere between the mains...you can probably get away with it just fine.

With the C-100/C-C100 setup, you should be perfectly fine crossing at 80Hz - so sub localization is not as issue.

I guess it depends what is more important to you:
Better detail and clarity with the RC-mini's or more mid-bass power and extension with the C-100's.

That's a tough decision.

Yeah, the bass is very impressive when I run the c-100s in full range and turn the sub off. Currently, I have them crossed at 70Hz, Audysee/AVR set them to full range.

I haven't been very happy with the detail of the c-100s though.
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