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post #991 of 52679 Old 02-25-2007, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khewa View Post

I've a Veritas 2.0c and it seems lacking. Wondering if I should swap with a RC-LCR. I was concerned that it is not timber matched to the Veritas.

On another topic....
what's the best pre amp / amp for driving the Veritas ? I've a Naim 140 driving the Veritas 2.2. Very warm sound, the highs are not that clinical as described by some people. The Naim NAP 140 is rated 45watts. I wonder if I should upgrade to a higher wattage to get the best out of my Veritas 2.2 ? has anyone used a Naim 200 or a 250 to drive the Veritas ? does it sound a lot better with the higher wattage ? In this day and age of the high power amp, 45 watts seems very puny.

I hate the Veritas 2.0c. They build these kickass towers and then come out with a wimpy center. If they had a good center I'd be a Veritas owner now.

Well, maybe - I'm also not sold on the cosmetics of the speakers. But the sound of the towers is great. The center? It has limitations especially off-axis.

"Nature Abhors a Vacuum Tube" -  J. R. Pierce
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post #992 of 52679 Old 02-25-2007, 10:07 AM
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The reason I've found my self on the this post to ask a question!
Does any one here understand the inside workings of the Veritas V2.4i,more specifically the binding post.
The rear spike footer has crack,and I order a new one thinking all I have to do is remove a few screws and wah lah....But the speaker cables terminal are attached,making difficult to remove the plastic spick footer.
I don't want to take a pair of pliers and twisting the binding post right of the crossover wires.
Not too sure if thats the way it would work,or it's simply screw treading all the way through?

If anyone has any ideas plaese let me know thank you.

Djoel
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post #993 of 52679 Old 02-25-2007, 11:47 AM
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Definitely a tube amp is going to impart a notably different sonic signature in speakers (and different tube amps). I haven't noticed as much of a difference by trying different SS amps with my veritas 2.4i's. The biggest difference I've heard so far in altering the sound from speakers is different tube gear. Definitely a tube preamp is an easy way to get into this experience.

SingHiFi, I have a Sim Audio W-5 for the 2.4i's and it is a great combo, but not a cheap amp. Very tight bass and great sound.

I have the 2.0Ci and I have no complaints. It should be better timber matched to the veritas line than the RC center because it was designed as such. I'd assume the CSM on the veritas towers and monitors is not on the centre channel because it would make the height unappealing to some (a design decision).

I had the connosseur LCR in the veritas system for a while and I think the 2.0Ci is better. Better timbre matching, although I'm talking about small differences, not a third ear.

The 2.0 Ci won't have as good off axis dispersion as the RC LCR but in the sweet spot seating position I have nothing but praise for it. In the sweet spot the 2.0Ci is better for me.

With the 2.0Ci lacking post, I have noted the sound from the center can be a little weak at times, but other times it is fine. That comes down to how the movie soundtrack was produced. Sometimes the soundtrack mixing leaves a lot to be desired. Some movies have the dialogue at too low a volume compared to the soundtrack. A quick boost of the centre level fixes that for problem movies.

kw.........
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post #994 of 52679 Old 02-25-2007, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Hey SingHiFi

The amps I use are Classe Cam 200 mono, I will never get rid of these amps or rather change to a two channel in one chaise.They let the Veritas sound very smooth in the mids ,and tight in the bottom end.
The other factor here is I own a subwofer Fathom F113 which makes the smallest speakers sound fantastic.I love bass,and can't live without some additional lower octaves.

Djoel

would a Veritas 2.2i + sub sound better than a Veritas 2.3i ? assuming of course, that the integration was done properly with a sub that has the right controls. Anyone has done this comparision ? Theoretically, it should sound deeper, but in practice, I'm not sure.
This will help me in my upgrading decisions, buy a sub with parametric/phase controls or buy the 2.3i ?
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post #995 of 52679 Old 02-25-2007, 09:17 PM
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I've been thinking about using three 2.2i's across the front to eliminate any potential issues with the 2.0c. Can anybody think of why that might be a bad idea?
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post #996 of 52679 Old 02-26-2007, 07:23 AM
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Quote:


would a Veritas 2.2i + sub sound better than a Veritas 2.3i ? assuming of course, that the integration was done properly with a sub that has the right controls. Anyone has done this comparision ? Theoretically, it should sound deeper, but in practice, I'm not sure.
This will help me in my upgrading decisions, buy a sub with parametric/phase controls or buy the 2.3i ?

It is counter intuitive but the area where the sub is in control will sound just as good. Where it won't do as well is the 100 to 300 hertz region where you will have better dynamics from the 2.3s. Drums, bass instruments, low male voices, lower registers on the piano, but only with the dynamics, the sudden attacks, same issue with sound effects in movies.

If the trade off is a sub and 2.2s or no sub and 2.3s and you are on this site (in other words you like this stuff), I would go with the 2.3s and get a sub later, especially if you like action movies or the sound of drums and bass guitars. I have had the 2.3s for almost 3 years and they never cease to impress me with the bass dynamics. The rest of the range will sound the same though, so it is all about the bass dynamics.
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post #997 of 52679 Old 02-26-2007, 02:00 PM
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Could someone please tell me what a power amp really does?
I mean i am planing to get a nad m25 which is quite expensive. I dont wanna order it and then hear no difference with it than my avr rx-v2700

Will there be a great difference?
or what should i expect from this power amp?
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post #998 of 52679 Old 02-26-2007, 02:37 PM
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An amp upgrade from your AV receiver to another SS amp won't make much of a difference in my opinion, depending on your speakers.

I upgraded from an AV receiver (built in SS amp) massively to an audiophile high end SS amp in my system, and there was a small difference, but upgrading to a dedicated 2 channel preamplifier made a much much bigger difference for me. Also, going to a tube amp (from a SS amp or AV receiver) will make a difference to the sound.

Speakers are part of the equation. Magnepan speakers (for example) are power hungry, and many people report that decent amplifiers do help them to breathe better and reveal detail and tighten bass. But these speakers dip to two ohm.

If you have 8 ohm speakers it won't make much of a difference in my experience.

A dedicated 2 channel preamplifier for your music playback will make an obvious difference to your system, and if you pick wisely and signficant improvement. Having A/B'd many integrated and dedicated preamps, I can tell you this is an often overlooked piece of the system that can offer definite improvements.

kw...........
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post #999 of 52679 Old 02-26-2007, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khewa View Post

would a Veritas 2.2i + sub sound better than a Veritas 2.3i ? assuming of course, that the integration was done properly with a sub that has the right controls. Anyone has done this comparision ? Theoretically, it should sound deeper, but in practice, I'm not sure.
This will help me in my upgrading decisions, buy a sub with parametric/phase controls or buy the 2.3i ?

That is a personal decision. There is a lot of tower versus monitor debate here on this forum that goes into this in more detail if you want to read.

Each way has their own advantages and disadvantages. And personal values will dictate which method is best for you.

A general rule is that towers (ie floorstanding full range speakers)are better for music playback than satellites and a single sub. Two subs are also better than one and it becomes more debatable if a dual sub system with monitors is better than towers.

One thing to consider is that it will take some $$ to get a sub capable of keeping up with the 2.2's response in music. In HT this is less important because it is less noticible.

For HT systems a sub is better because many movies have lots of bass demands and newer movies are getting quit deep in bass response (15 Hz can be found). And obviously also because movies are encoded with the dedicated LFE channel.

I think Swestborn's points are a little off base (funny), but there is a point in there. I don't know anyone who runs a sub above 100 Hz. Most people run them at 40-80 Hz. But the veritas 2.3's have a tapered crossover that allow the multiple drivers in cabinet to split bass frequencies and focus on a portion of the lower to midrange response. This will allow for less distortion. And therefore the bass-midrange response should be better than in the 2.2's. The 2.4i's with it's extra driver also allow for more of the same over the 2.3's (in addition to going a little lower for bass response).

kw..........
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post #1000 of 52679 Old 02-26-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwtoxman View Post

An amp upgrade from your AV receiver to another SS amp won't make much of a difference in my opinion, depending on your speakers.

I upgraded from an AV receiver (built in SS amp) massively to an audiophile high end SS amp in my system, and there was a small difference, but upgrading to a dedicated 2 channel preamplifier made a much much bigger difference for me. Also, going to a tube amp (from a SS amp or AV receiver) will make a difference to the sound.

kw...........


I dont really know these things for good. You are talking about a dedicated amp? any advises you can give for a dedicated amp from nad ?

Are u telling me I wont get much difference if i use a nad m25 amp?

My speakers are rc-70 rc-10 rc-lcr
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post #1001 of 52679 Old 02-26-2007, 03:45 PM
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yes, I'm talking about a solid state amp (ss). And upgrading to a NAD amp won't make much of a difference from my experience based on the caveats earlier. I noticed a slight improvement in bass for music, and no difference in HT.

For me the advantage would be to move to separates, allowing for upgrading the processor and/or preamp in a system without having to pay all over again for amplification.

kw.....
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post #1002 of 52679 Old 02-26-2007, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersen79 View Post

Are u telling me I wont get much difference if i use a nad m25 amp?

yeah, as kwtoxman mentions, the most noticeable differences will be improved, or tighter, bass. Otherwise the overall difference in sound will not be "night-and-day" (but noticeable).

The Yamaha RX-V2700 is one of the best receivers in it's class (I think), it has a very good pre-amp section (Burr Brown DAC's, op-amps, schottky rectifier diodes, etc.,..), combined with good efficient power (for an AVR), that will provide pristine sounding audio for music and home theater surround sources for most typical room situations (at home).

However, you can't compare the RX-V2700 amplifiers to that of the (96 pound) NAD M25 amplifier. The M25 has a more superior design (including a huge torroidal type transformer) that will drive most any type speakers much easier, and cleaner, than the Yamaha's amplifiers. The M25 features NAD's "variable speed cooling fan" technology, and more. Moreover it's THX Ultra 2 Certified. The guys at my local popular NAD dealer are very impressed with this amp.

The great thing about having a good [separate] multi-channel amplifier is that it will allow you to switch to a dedicated pre-amplifier/processor ("pre-pro"), or different receiver, in the future and retain a solid power base.

The RX-V2700/M25 combination will provide you a more robust, and versatile, system. If I had the opportunity to aquire an M25 I would jump all over it. Although the RX-V2700, by itself, with the RC-Series speakers, will provide you with a very nice sounding system. You can't really lose either way.
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post #1003 of 52679 Old 02-26-2007, 05:58 PM
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The reason I said 100 hertz instead of 80 is that the crossover isn't a brick wall it is a 24 decibel per octave crossover or 12 for most SACD players that means you aren't down 24 or 12 dbs until you hit 160 hertz (assuming the sub is flat up to there which it seldom is). The sub is still doing quite a bit at 100 so you won't notice much difference. Over that frequency is where the tapered crossover comes into play, the taper being at 300 hertz.
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post #1004 of 52679 Old 02-27-2007, 12:51 AM
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ok then can you please give me some models of a solid state amp? or dedicated amp so I know what i am looking for?
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post #1005 of 52679 Old 02-27-2007, 12:18 PM
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this may have been asked and answered before, but I couldn't find it going through about 10 pages, and when I realized there were 30+ pages, I decided just to post.

I am currently running c-5 towers c-3 rears and a velodyne sub. I am looking for a center channel, and am leaning towards the cc-3.

so i guess my question is twofold. first, is this the correct center I should be looking for, and secondly where can i buy energy speakers? I haven't been able to find a local dealer with a reasonable selection.

any advice would be very greatly appreciated. thanks guys.
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post #1006 of 52679 Old 02-27-2007, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickho View Post

I am currently running c-5 towers c-3 rears and a velodyne sub. I am looking for a center channel, and am leaning towards the cc-3.

so i guess my question is twofold. first, is this the correct center I should be looking for, and secondly where can i buy energy speakers? I haven't been able to find a local dealer with a reasonable selection.

I'm using the CC-3 with C-3 with good matching. Both the CC-1 and CC-3 will match with any of the C-series of that era.

however, the CC-3 is no longer made. I think you will have to find a used one.

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post #1007 of 52679 Old 02-27-2007, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersen79 View Post

ok then can you please give me some models of a solid state amp? or dedicated amp so I know what i am looking for?

The NAD M25 is a great choice:
http://nadelectronics.com/products/m...nnel-Amplifier
Also, the new NAD T975:
http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESam...amplifiers.php
The rotel RMB-1095:
http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rmb1095.htm
http://www.audioholics.com/productre...amplifier1.php

Just a few popular examples.

Also, you should run your Yamaha RX-V2700, by itself, to get used to it's performance.
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post #1008 of 52679 Old 02-27-2007, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersen79 View Post

ok then can you please give me some models of a solid state amp? or dedicated amp so I know what i am looking for?

The point is that it is hard to recommend an amp to you unless you tell us what you are looking for.

To improve sound?
HT or music playback?
For modularity and future upgrading?

All the points earlier discuss why these are important considerations.

For example, to just to improve sound I wouldn't bother upgrading amplifiers.

kw.......
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post #1009 of 52679 Old 02-28-2007, 12:53 AM
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Well i want to get the best out of the speakers.

I wanna hear details I have never heard before. And if possible more bass and mids.
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post #1010 of 52679 Old 02-28-2007, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

The NAD M25 is a great choice:
http://nadelectronics.com/products/m...nnel-Amplifier
Also, the new NAD T975:
http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESam...amplifiers.php

Also, you should run your Yamaha RX-V2700, by itself, to get used to it's performance.


westcoastd correct me if i am wrong.

Before didnt you say a nad m25 wouldnt make much difference?

Also what do u mean by run your yamaha rx-v2700 by itself.
Already i am using it for listenin to music and watching movies.
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post #1011 of 52679 Old 02-28-2007, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersen79 View Post

Well i want to get the best out of the speakers.
I wanna hear details I have never heard before. And if possible more bass and mids.

I'm using 3 NAD C272 amps (150W X 2 each) combined with a Yamaha RX-V1600 right now (as pre-pro), it's definitely a step up in sound quality- I would say slightly "cleaner" sounding with very noticeable tighter bass response. I especially like this set-up for playing stereo and multi-channel music sources (SACD's and DVD-A's), which I listen to the most. The NAD amps really drive my RC-30 fronts, and RC-LCR center, much nicer than the Yamaha receiver by itself, and does it effortlessly. I think better amplification augments the speakers ability to handle music dynamics better.

Moreover, I'm planning to upgrade my RX-V1600 to the new NAD T175 surround-processor in the next month (it is due to be released April 2007).
http://www.digitalvideoht.it/files/NAD_T175.pdf
I'm expecting to see some significant changes in sound quality with this unit as it has a more refined pre-amp section- wider soundstage, better clarity, and less "muddiness".

So a quality multi-channel amp could serve well for you as a good stepping-stone to a system comprised of separates. I think you'll see the most difference when you go to a dedicated pre-amp (or pre-pro).

However, the RX-V2700 is very good, by itself, for home theater (DVD-Movies, digital-cable broadcasts, etc.,...), it has excellent DSP combined with very good power (for an AVR). Does a good job with music sources as well.
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post #1012 of 52679 Old 02-28-2007, 01:47 PM
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Has anyone paired the in-ceiling EAS-6C or 8C with the Take FPS???

I'm looking at three Take FPS for L/C/R. My rear speakers need to be In-Ceiling (wife rule).
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post #1013 of 52679 Old 02-28-2007, 02:29 PM
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Moreover, I'm planning to upgrade my RX-V1600 to the new NAD T175 surround-processor in the next month (it is due to be released April 2007).
http://www.digitalvideoht.it/files/NAD_T175.pdf
I'm expecting to see some significant changes in sound quality with this unit as it has a more refined pre-amp section- wider soundstage, better clarity, and less "muddiness".[/quote]

I really dont understand much about these stuff, so if you could explain it abit more I would be greatful.

When u said upgrading rx-v1600 to the new nad T175. do you mean you will connect your 1600 to the t175.I am asking this because I couldnt see any speaker cable connections at the back of the nad T175.
Also whats the power per channel of this nad t175?
Maybe I will consider buying one.?
Lastly I know it hasnt been released, but if it was compare to rx-v2700 what would the result be ?
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post #1014 of 52679 Old 02-28-2007, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersen79 View Post

Well i want to get the best out of the speakers.

I wanna hear details I have never heard before. And if possible more bass and mids.


Still not enough info. You still should answer the other two questions.

HT or music playback?
For modularity and future upgrading?

kw.........
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post #1015 of 52679 Old 02-28-2007, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersen79 View Post

I really dont understand much about these stuff, so if you could explain it abit more I would be greatful.

To put it simple:

A receiver is comprised of Digital Signal Processing (DSP) circuitry, a pre-amplifier section, combined with built-in amplifiers, and more.

A pre-amplifier/processor (or "pre-pro" or "processor") typically refers to a dedicated, or separate, unit comprised of just the DSP, and pre-amplifier circuitry. The pre-amplifier section in a pre-pro is usually more refined than a receiver's pre-amplifier section and provides more optimum sound quality.

A receiver is usually intended to operate using it's built-in amplifiers, although, when equipped with pre-out's, it can also be used with an external (or dedicated) amplifier (like the M25 for example). While a pre-pro, or processor, is designed to work together with a separate amplifier (like the M25 for example).

Hope this gives you some better understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersen79 View Post

When u said upgrading rx-v1600 to the new nad T175. do you mean you will connect your 1600 to the t175.I am asking this because I couldnt see any speaker cable connections at the back of the nad T175.
Also whats the power per channel of this NAD T175?

The NAD T175 is a new "pre-pro" unit (or a "surround-processor"). As I explained above, it is a dedicated pre-amplifier/processor, it contains [no] amplifiers.
The NAD T175 is meant to be used with a dedicated, or separate amplifier, it has no speaker terminals. The separate, or dedicated, amplifier will have the speaker terminals (like the M25 for example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersen79 View Post

Maybe I will consider buying one?

I think you should just concentrate on using the RX-V2700 by-itself, with the RC-Series speakers, this is an excellent combination and will provide you very good performance.

Become more versed with the Yamaha's various modes of operation for music and home theater function. Also get used to it's particular sound characteristics (combined with the RC-Series speakers).
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post #1016 of 52679 Old 03-01-2007, 01:09 AM
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wescoastD
than you for your help. you have been very helpfull.

I think i will go on with the rx-v2700 for a while and maybe upgrade in the future
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post #1017 of 52679 Old 03-01-2007, 01:12 AM
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HT or music playback?
For modularity and future upgrading?

kw.........[/quote]

well if I would prefer to have the best in both.
But mostly ht.
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post #1018 of 52679 Old 03-01-2007, 09:04 AM
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As i mentioned before. I am using rc-10 for rears.I dont know why but i wanna improve my surrounds. I have came out with two different ideas. One gettin 2 RC-LCR or gettin a pair of rc-30


Could anyone say which one would be better? or would rc-10 just do as good as the others?
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post #1019 of 52679 Old 03-01-2007, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersen79 View Post

HT or music playback?
For modularity and future upgrading?



well if I would prefer to have the best in both.
But mostly ht.


For music I'd recommend a dedicated 2 channel preamp for 2 channel music playback. And I'd recommend a tube preamplifier because they really do shine for music playback. Something with a HT bypass so it integrates in your system well. For this there are many products, including Cary Audio SLP 2002 (used), SLP 03, SLP 98, Aesthetix Calypso, Audio Research LS series (eg LS26), BAT (Balanced Audio Technologies), etc.

For HT you won't notice much of a difference upgrading anything without spending some $$ and improving every component (processor and all amps), (the old saying a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link comes to mind).

If you want a separate amplifier I'd look into Butler hybrid tube amplifiers. A few fellow AVS'rs have them and they look amazing and are said to sound great and perform very well.

If you were serious about music a good option is also to buy separate amplifiers for your mains, and then the rest (eg, 2 channel for mains, 3 channel for the others in a 5.1 system). Bryston and Odyssey Audio make some nice amplifiers worth examining too (including 3 channel and 2 channel amplifiers)

As for upgrading rears, I doubt you'll notice much if you are running a sub. The LCR mounted horizontally will improve off-axis dispersion (the sound quality of friends watching beside you), but vertically I don't know if it will do as well. RC-R's are a good option, because of the bipole/dipole/corner options. I use the veritas version of them and like the increase dispersion they offer for the rear channels.

IMO, the best bang for the $$ purchase in upgrading a HT system is a decent subwoofer (ie big, and preferably multiple). Something like an SVS or HSU, preferably dual, and with a bass management system like a Velodyne SMS-1 or the new SVS Audyssey (?). By far this will make your HT experience felt as well as heard.

kw...........
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post #1020 of 52679 Old 03-01-2007, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersen79 View Post

I am using rc-10 for rears. I wanna improve my surrounds. I have come up with two different ideas:
One gettin 2 RC-LCR or gettin a pair of rc-30

Both the RC-10 and RC-LCR's are excellent. Although you may get more clarity using RC-LCR's for rears since they have the additional metal dome mid-range sections.

Moreover, you may want to consider RC-R's, they have the same metal dome mid-range. Also, they are "dual-role" type speakers- they can be configured for "bi-pole" or "di-pole" function. I use these for rears now, I'm very happy with them.

If you're mostly using your system for home theater (DVD-Movies, etc.,...digital-cable TV broadcasts) I would say go for the RC-R's.

Read more about the details of these particular speaker models, and their set-up/configuration, on the Energy web-site:
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/pr...age.php?id=271
http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/pr...nual%20Web.pdf
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