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post #3511 of 3540 Old 06-22-2014, 12:41 PM
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Well the more I listen to the Zensor 7's (Family Room) and the Ikon 1's MKII (Office) the more I like Dali line of speakers. So far very impressive on all kinds of music.
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post #3512 of 3540 Old 07-04-2014, 12:38 AM
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Well well

http://dali-rubicon.com
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post #3513 of 3540 Old 07-08-2014, 06:03 AM
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Epicons, it's how we roll!

http://translate.google.com/translat...en.id.3920.htm

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post #3514 of 3540 Old 07-10-2014, 12:35 AM
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http://www.lydogbilde.no/test/helicon-800-mkii


A review that compares these 3 models:

Ikon 8
Mentor 8
Helicon 800mk2
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post #3515 of 3540 Old 07-13-2014, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post
Indeed. Google Translate created some awkward phrasing, but it's a great review. I still love my Epicon 2s and Vokal center.

DALI Epicon 2 front speakers; DALI Epicon Vokal center speaker; Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000 surrounds; SVS SB 13 Ultra subwoofer; Marantz AV 8801 pre/pro; Parasound Halo A51 power amp; Oppo BDP 105 SACD/Blu-ray player; Sennheiser HD 800 headphones; Woo Audio WA6 headphone amp.
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post #3516 of 3540 Old 07-17-2014, 08:35 AM
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For this I used Google-translate from Dutch to English. I think the essence is clear.

Interview with: Lars Worre


Timing Is Of The Essence
"Yes, speed is an important part of good representation," he says. "That is not a secret, because if you think about it, it is quite logical. If the cone of a loudspeaker unit is quite fat, he has a lot of momentum. He goes up and down, but its weight inclined "to shoot." As a result, he is keeping the amplifier. Difficult in check Light through the cones and make stiff you get a better pulse behavior and that is the naturalness of the listening. But speed is not everything, there are other factors that determine whether a speaker 'good' or 'great' is. The key ingredient here is the way, not a flat frequency. That many people think so, and you have, in a sense also strive for, but a flat curve in measuring the frequency says virtually nothing about the performance of a loudspeaker. You can totally ten different speakers side by side, all with straight frequency response, and yet they sound all different. Why is that? We have researched. And showed that the greatest profit can be made with perfect timing. If the units used in a speaker correct simultaneous movement make it sound a certain consistency that allows you to create. Almost three-dimensional sound image This applies to small two-way systems as well as large and complex as the vierwegsystemen Epicon 8 you hear playing here.



"He continues:" The timing is determined in the crossover and that is something to which we pay a lot of attention from DALI "When I asked whether it involves the use of computers and specialized software, he smiles and says." Not more. We tried and we discovered at one point that the theory can be grasped. Behind the development of a speaker filter, but to a certain extent in the design models We were spending so much time to fine-tune the computer-generated filter design that we decided to do it again. The old-fashioned way We have enough experience in-house expertise to design a filter from scratch themselves while actually we mainly use our ears as a measuring instrument. It helps, of course, tremendously if you like us all design your own speaker units. Then you know exactly where you need to take into account "Now we are talking about their own speaker units I grab my chance to find out whether cherishes DALI plans -. Bring to market a proprietary headset -. Echoing many other speaker brands "That's an interesting question. We have no plans, but I admit that I'm secretly wondering if we Linear Drive Magnet System will also work. The tiny power used in headphones I suspect it viz. Headphones appear, in particular in the lower frequencies, to have deformation of which can be attributed to the drive. Load Our system is against, so who knows ... No concrete plans so but never say never. "



Read more: http://www.hifi.nl/artikel/22212/Lar...#ixzz37jwQrTB1

BTW: My granite custom made feet are ready!

The speakers are in direct contact with the granite, so they can use the extra mass for bass improvement (yes!). In between the carpet and the granite are 4 rubber caps to isolate 100% from the floor.
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post #3517 of 3540 Old 07-17-2014, 10:02 AM
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Hmm, i see some strange translation errors. If there are questions about the translation, just ask me.

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post #3518 of 3540 Old 07-17-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Anyone hear or see the Rubicon yet? I can get a very good deal on a pair of Dali Ikon 6 which sound amazing even at there retail price.

Say Garman, care to take a guess.
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post #3519 of 3540 Old 07-17-2014, 11:11 AM
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Mark:

Rubicon! The question is which one?
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post #3520 of 3540 Old 07-17-2014, 11:26 AM
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8 in high-gloss piano Black. You happen to live near Minneapolis?

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post #3521 of 3540 Old 07-17-2014, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post
8 in high-gloss piano Black. You happen to live near Minneapolis?
I am about 3 hours away.... I use to live in WB Lake home of another pair of speakers I have, The Maggies!

The Rubicon 8? Nice speaker line but still priced a tad too high for the masses, when I saw the original prices which were wrong I was very excited. Big Dynaudio fan and have been for years, but lately the Dali lines been good because they are more reasonably priced with the exception of a few lines. <<<<< Opinion of course.
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post #3522 of 3540 Old 07-17-2014, 02:55 PM
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Have them in, breaking them in right now. Will not move them till they are ready. Size wise they seem pretty close to my Epicon 6's. Sound out of the box is what I expected. So 3 days from now we will know.
Any questions while I have them?
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post #3523 of 3540 Old 07-17-2014, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post
Have them in, breaking them in right now. Will not move them till they are ready. Size wise they seem pretty close to my Epicon 6's. Sound out of the box is what I expected. So 3 days from now we will know.
Any questions while I have them?
Really curious to hear how they (Rubicon 8) compare to Epicon 6.
6/6 comparison would be even more interesting to me, but I’ll take what’s there.

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post #3524 of 3540 Old 07-17-2014, 05:29 PM
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Mark: They sure look sweet! Let us know as I really liked the sound of the Ikon for the money as I own a pair of the Ikon 1 MKII and the Zensor 7s for my living room where my kids do most of their TV viewing.
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post #3525 of 3540 Old 07-18-2014, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mrkeeling View Post
Really curious to hear how they (Rubicon 8) compare to Epicon 6.
6/6 comparison would be even more interesting to me, but I’ll take what’s there.
The R8 & E8 are made for larger rooms. And the R6 & E6 for smaller rooms. So any comparison between a E6 and a R8 in a small room will lead to non-information. Also the principles are very different. The E8 and R8 do not need a subwoofer. The E6 and R6 do for the full experience of music listening. Also the E6 has no dedicated mid (one cannot say that this is not important, why whould the E8 have a dedicated mid woofer if there is no use to this at all?)

The only way to say something usefull is to have the R8 and E8 in a big room, and the E6 and and the R6 in a somehow smaller room.

So, ofcourse, it is fun to listen to the E6 and E8 and hear differences. Also check scandinavian and german threads about Dali. Lots of information.
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post #3526 of 3540 Old 07-18-2014, 06:50 AM
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A Dali rep is coming to town on the 31st. He is interested in hearing the Epicon 6 VS. the Rub 8's. Nice part are the Rubicon LRC "not sure how many" he is bringing with. Looks like we might be moving a lot of speakers around to see how the work together.


Just heard he is bringing 2 of the Rubicon LCR's to compare.

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Last edited by Dr_Mark; 07-19-2014 at 03:12 PM.
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post #3527 of 3540 Old 07-19-2014, 03:08 PM
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Ok, where to start, equipment.
HTPC using FLAC, hi-res, and SACD 2-channel files.
PS Audio Perfectwave2 DAC, “waiting for the bridge to arrive,” using a Wireworld Silver helix USB cable at the recommended 1.5 meterlength.
Parasound A21 amp connected with SUPRA sword-IXLR cables “30th anniversary” No clue if that is worth anything, but you do get a wooden box. Woo-ho…..lol. Supra power cord on the amp.
Speaker cables are Anticables level 3, 9 gage wire.
We are day 2 of break-in.
Music for the first 48 hours was Enigma – The Rivers of belief (24-96) track 1 The Rivers of belief. This track has deep bass with a lot of high end mixed in.
It took maybe 24 hours for the bass drivers to loosen up. Right off the bat they come across very boomy and the upper end is very sharp. Overly bright.
After around day 1 the bottom end settled down and tightened up. Highs still harsh and shrill.

2nd day hit them with Grover Washington2-channel SACD Prime Cuts - The Columbia Years_ 1987-1999 track 1 Take 5.
This seemed to really work magic on the high end issue. I figure 1-2 more days to finish the breakin, but the differences seem to be at this point.
Helicon MK2, good bass, high end can be very bright. With my system I did notice the top end of some female vocals etc. as they reach the top of a note. The sound can become a little shrill/harsh and lose detail.
Rubicons, Better bass, not as tight as the Epicons. High end is not shrill, does seem a little bit thin, less detail than the Epicons.
Epicons, tight bass, low distortion. High end is very detailed, not overly bright.


Here are pictures of the ribben and tweaters. Pic 1 is Epicon, 2 Rubicon, 3 Helicon MK2.
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post #3528 of 3540 Old 07-22-2014, 12:19 AM
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Advice Needed

Forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this but I need some guidance/advice (this is my first post on avsforum). I got interested in hifi about two years ago but deferred until I finished my graduate studies last month to really start my hifi research. I have learned a lot in the past month or so but have barely scratched the surface.

I initially envisioned a large 2.0 system with many components including a turntable and cd player with big speakers. I started my auditions with the Paradigm Studio 20s, B&W 685s and Totem Rainmakers. The Studio 20s won the initial audition but I quickly realized that I was not working in a vacuum. I have severe spatial constraints living in a rather small apartment. There is no room for floor standers or speaker stands which means that I am limited to a desktop setup for the near future. Upon this realization I shifted focus to electronics.

I wanted to find a single box that contained the integrated amp and dac and initially settled on the TEAC AI-501DA. However, I realized that I might want more power and that the onboard dac was not the greatest so I decided to buy the TEAC AX-501. My sources will be my Mac Pro (optical out into a FiiO Dac at first) and an Airport Express. I know that you are "supposed to buy speakers first" but I couldn't resist the form factor. I still have not received the unit as I had to order from a non-local retailer (a B&M store in Wisconsin). My focus then shifted back to speakers.

I decided to expand my search beyond the initial store and kept reading about the Zensors and how great they are for the price. I quickly learned about the US markup but would have no problem paying if they lived up to their reputation. I was also attracted to the idea of buying Danish speakers as I've almost always driven Saab and Volvo and like the Scandinavian aesthetic and design principles. I went to a retailer that carried part of the DALI lineup, as well as Dynaudio and other really high-end stuff. I initially demoed the Dali Ikon 1 MK2 against the Dynaudio Excite x12 that they had discounted for $100 retail from when they were discontinued. Both models were retailing for $1100. I liked both and noticed a much more significant soundstage than I experienced with the Paradigms. Perhaps it was the fact that I was sitting much closer, but I think it was quite obvious (I doubt most things I sense because I am so new to this). We were approaching closing time but I did get to briefly hear the Zensor 1 and liked it for sure but cannot really comment too much.

I went back the next day (yesterday) despite being an hour away for some more demo time but focused on the Ikon and Dynaudio. I think I convinced myself that the DALI produced more detail and that I did not miss the loss in bass (I didn't really notice too much but perhaps it was there). He then played the famous KEF LS50s for me but honestly I think the added power and bass muffled some of the detail I realized I loved so much after the DALI audition. I know that everyone loves the LS50 (including the salespeople at the store) but I don't think it is the speaker for me. Perhaps I am a bit biased because I am not a fan of the aesthetics but I think the lack of detail was there. And of course there is the issue of needing a strong enough amp which I may not have at 65wpc. Just to satisfy my curiosity I asked to hear the Mentor 1 which was way above my initial budget. The fit and finish is quite attractive. During my Ikon audition I noticed perhaps a bit of what I assume people mean by fatigue. It was not pain but it also wasn't purely comfortable. This was not the case with the Mentor. Perhaps this has to do with break-in or perhaps it is a matter of the more robust construction and curved walls or different drivers? Basically there are so many variables but I actually started to rationalize spending $$$ on the Mentors, even though I originally wanted to spend much less for this temporary setup until I could really build my dream setup.

Now today I find out the Mentor line is being phased out. Might I expect a price reduction on the Mentor 1? Should I spring for the Mentor 2 if there is a price reduction (the store doesn't stock the 2)? I am planning on buying a cheap used set of speakers to break in the amp so that I can bring it back to the store for the next audition but perhaps I should just get the Zensors and call it a day until I move and can build the big system. I really like the DALI sound (at least I think I do) but might be hesitant to spend so much on something that will no longer be available (maybe I'd want to add Mentor 5s later). The Rubicons are too big and too expensive. Perhaps I should just get the Dynaudios (real wood veneer) and be happy but I think I really would like to buy a DALI. Can someone who owns and has broken in the Ikon 1 MK 2 elaborate on their experience and if they ever felt fatigued by the speakers? Did that go away after sufficient break-in time?

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance to any who read and/or respond. I would really appreciate any information/advice you could offer. I have read some of this thread but not the majority. I will try and get through it over the next few days.

Edit: I forgot to ask. When comparing ~$1100 smallish bookshelf speakers, the Paradigm Studio 10 is way ahead of the Ikon 1 MK2 in terms of fit and finish (I like the way the Ikon looks but it is vinyl wrapper and the cabinet is not curved). Does Paradigm allocate more funds to the finish as a form of marketing and sacrifice sound? Is one company lining their pockets more than the other? I realize this isn't exactly a fair comparison because the Ikon is only $1100 in the US. But if anyone has thoughts on which companies put the most into sound versus marketing vs ...., I would be interested to hear.

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post #3529 of 3540 Old 07-22-2014, 03:39 PM
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A couple of more to enjoy. Helicon, Epicon and Rubicons
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post #3530 of 3540 Old 07-22-2014, 04:10 PM
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A couple of more to enjoy. Helicon, Epicon and Rubicons
We should have a drooling emo!
Those two Parasound amps, are they monoblocks (one each for fronts) or some other combination?
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post #3531 of 3540 Old 07-22-2014, 06:05 PM
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Top amp is an A21, bottom an A51. Thinking of adding another A51 for Atmos. Debating if it's worth the money.


If I had never heard the Epicon's, I would totally be in love with the Rubicon's.

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post #3532 of 3540 Old 07-24-2014, 01:07 AM
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jleffell: I own all the speaker brands you are speaking of. With the exception of the Paradigms as I use to own them many years ago but for me I moved up the food chain as I think Dynaudio and Dali produce a better sounding product to my ears! The KEF LS50 is a gem of a speaker but needs decent power to make it come alive and can be a tad difficult to drive. I currently own a pair of Ikon 1's MKII in my office which replaced a pair of Excite X12s which were also very nice, but for the money Dali is producing a decent speaker. I currently have a pair of Zensor 7 in my living room and for the kids and playback of music they are terrific. I have mine in the walnut finish but with the black gloss fronts they do look very good.

Dynaudio Confidence C2 in HT room
Dynaudio SCX Center Ch in HT room
Dynaudio Excite 12 now gone replaced with Ikon 1 MK11

Dali Ikon 1 MKII
Dali Zensor
KEF LS50

All the choices are good ones, but the Dali Zensor or Ikon would be the least expensive and for the money the best bet, you could always trade up the food chain later. Zensor 3 or Zensor 5 for an apartment would be great along with the floor standing Dynaudio Excite line.

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post #3533 of 3540 Old 07-24-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Garman View Post
jleffell: I own all the speaker brands you are speaking of. With the exception of the Paradigms as I use to own them many years ago but for me I moved up the food chain as I think Dynaudio and Dali produce a better sounding product to my ears! The KEF LS50 is a gem of a speaker but needs decent power to make it come alive and can be a tad difficult to drive. I currently own a pair of Ikon 1's MKII in my office which replaced a pair of Excite X12s which were also very nice, but for the money Dali is producing a decent speaker. I currently have a pair of Zensor 7 in my living room and for the kids and playback of music they are terrific. I have mine in the walnut finish but with the black gloss fronts they do look very good.

Dynaudio Confidence C2 in HT room
Dynaudio SCX Center Ch in HT room
Dynaudio Excite 12 now gone replaced with Ikon 1 MK11

Dali Ikon 1 MKII
Dali Zensor
KEF LS50

All the choices are good ones, but the Dali Zensor or Ikon would be the least expensive and for the money the best bet, you could always trade up the food chain later. Zensor 3 or Zensor 5 for an apartment would be great along with the floor standing Dynaudio Excite line.
Thanks for the info Garman. The store only stocks the Zensor 1 and I think the 3 might be a bit too big for my desk. I am leaning more and more towards the Ikon 1 MK2 but will need to bring in my amp for the final audition after it has been adequately burned in. I wish that I had room for floor standers right now....but there is no space and a dog that likes to knock things over.
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post #3534 of 3540 Old 07-24-2014, 10:11 AM
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Well I had a chance to sit down with the Zensor 1 and then the Ikon 1 MK2 which to me had more detail in the upper end, it was a no brainer and when I compared them to my Excites X12 I had it was close but the extra ribbon tweeter to me added more again detail in the upper end. I have the Walnut finish and I am using them with a Marantz 8004 Int. Amp and its a pretty good match and more then enough juice! Get a pair of sturdy stands that are sand fillable and you should be fine with a dog around!
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post #3535 of 3540 Old 07-24-2014, 12:51 PM
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2 more babies coming this weekend to compare and play with. More pictures to come.


No questions about these 3 different speakers?

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post #3536 of 3540 Old 07-24-2014, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Well I had a chance to sit down with the Zensor 1 and then the Ikon 1 MK2 which to me had more detail in the upper end, it was a no brainer and when I compared them to my Excites X12 I had it was close but the extra ribbon tweeter to me added more again detail in the upper end. I have the Walnut finish and I am using them with a Marantz 8004 Int. Amp and its a pretty good match and more then enough juice! Get a pair of sturdy stands that are sand fillable and you should be fine with a dog around!
I agree about the extra detail for the Ikon over the x12. I convinced myself of it having gone back and forth a few times (no A/B testing but we switched 2 or so times). I don't have enough room for stands now, they will be sitting on a desk. But I will add stands when I move or figure out how to reconfigure my space.
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post #3537 of 3540 Old Yesterday, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post
2 more babies coming this weekend to compare and play with. More pictures to come.


No questions about these 3 different speakers?
Hi Dr Mark

Would you rate the rubicon 8's better speakers than the helicons? You said the rubicons sound thin compared to the epicons, how about compared to the helicons? Wish you could compare to the euphonia's with the rubicon 8's. Do the vokals of the rubicons 8's sound more pronounced for example.
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Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post
HiDr Mark
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Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post

Would you rate the Rubicon 8's better speakers than the helicons? You said the Rubicon’s sound thin compared to the Epicon’s, how about compared to the helicons? Wish you could compare to the Euphonia’s with the Rubicon 8's. Do the vokals of the Rubicon’s 8's sound more pronounced for example.
How funny you should mention the Euphonia's.... I have a pair of MS4's coming this weekend and can compare them.

First, when I heard the helicon's I loved them for detail but didn't like the compromise of them being so bright. An example for all using Beethoven.

Beethoven 9th. Allegro Assai -Recitative

Ikon's - Sound better than what I heard before. Bright, harsh, not a lot of detail but still an improvement over my Boston Acoustic speakers. I bought into the line and moved up to the Helicons from here. Voices in the chorus are harsh and seem to smear.

Mentor - accurate, more detailed than the Ikon’s, I think these image the least of all the Dali's I have heard. Voices in the chorus are not as harsh but still seem to smear.

Helicon's - More detail, significant improvement in image. The individual instruments seem more detailed, but with that is an extra brightness that descends to harshness. They seem to really handle what they do to a point then lose it. Voices are amazing. But the top end of a woman's voice can bring that harsh out and lose all detail. For everything the Helicon does right made it a wonderful value for the money. BUT you have to tame the top end and Audyssey helped with that a lot. Now when you hear the chorus, it’s not possible to pick out the individual voices. They turn overly bright, lose detail. Still better than I have heard in the majority of speakers. FYI The center “C200MK2” is wonderful when you hit this level.

Rubicon – Better bass, not as tight as the Epicon’s. The Rubicon bass driver is a 6.5 driver, not an 8” like the Epicon one. For a 6.5 driver there is a lot of bass coming from the cabinet. Does a good job but not as tight nor detailed as the Epicon line. It is an improvement over the Helicons. Seems deeper, more refined. High end is not “as” shrill as the Helicons, elicits a thinner sound, Where the Helicon will smear the sound and lose detail and become harsh. Dali seems to have fixed this by reducing the detail to save the sound. Back to the chorus, Where the Helicons will break down trying to reproduce the voices and background music; the Rubicon’s will play the sound, lose detail but not go harsh. I was not able to discern individual voices. With great recordings, these speakers image very nicely and you don’t focus on the speaker. Smooth, for the money, I could see getting a pair of the Rubicon 6’s. For my room size, well worth the money. I would think “for my room size” the Rubicon 6 would be probably the best value for the money in the Dali line. I would either match the Helicon C200 MK2 or the Epicon Vokel center with this line.
Side note: Poor recordings can drive this speaker to be harsh. Good recordings it doesn’t happen. The sound goes thinner in detail. Takes 4 solid days to break in.

Epicon – Bass, Doorofnight, if the Rubicon 8’s don’t need a sub, the Epicon 6 does not need a sub. My guess is the E8 would drive me out of my house. The bass drivers in this cabinet can and do shake my house with the right music or explosion.
Freq range for the Epicon 6 is 35-30k, Rubicon 8 is 38-34k.
Weight E6 - 66 lbs, R8 – 60 lbs.
Bass is detailed, at louder volume it holds the detail, does not distort. When the house starts to shake, you know exactly what instrument caused that to happen. Not just a lot of booOOOMmmm shake, shake. “Unless of course you like boom, shake-shake.” “Sorry a little humor.” The E6 does not exaggerate the sound like alot of other speakers. The midrange is so silky smooth. Listening to the same chorus, you can pick out a lot of voices and the background instruments. Not all of them, but you can still pick some out. Could not do that with any of the others. R8 would go thin, not the E6’s. Nil’s loftgren, Keith Don’t go. The notes just float in the air, rich, live and drawing you into the music. You can hear his fingers working the guitar. The R8’s are not as alive as the E6’s. My son and I were listening to a lot of classical and you could hear the performers turning pages on the sheet music. Could not hear that before.
If I had not heard the Epicon's, I would be VERY happy with the Rubicon’s. I think Dali made some good decisions on this line to differentiate them from the Helicons and Epicon's. I would buy the Rubicon 6 or 8 over the Helicon more expensive brothers any day of the week. I have a friend with Pipe Dream speakers, ML mono blocks etc. He has more money in his cables than I do in speakers.
http://www.nearfieldacoustics.com/Products.php $100,000
When he comes over, can’t get him to leave. His comment the last time over was: “If these were out before I got my pipes, I would have seriously considered these.”

Bottom line, when the lights go down and we settle in for some music listening… well the speakers just disappear. We listen to music, not the box.

Also 100% love them for movies, concerts etc.


These are just some thoughts of mine. Your miles will vary.


Cabinets
Ikons, meh, they look like a speaker in this price range should.
Mentors, I personally like this finish. Good wood quality, reminds me of a lot of European furniture.
Helicons MK2, very nice detail on the wood. Rounded sides and very high WAF. Loved this speaker.
Rubicon. They took the mentor cabinet and used it. I have a pair in black piano finish. Very black, looks nice. You are buying more the speaker here than the finish.
Epicon's, Look fantastic. As you get closer to the speaker you get see the wood detail. Very high WAF.

Life is enjoyable with good quality

Last edited by Dr_Mark; Yesterday at 06:27 AM. Reason: added cabinet info
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post #3539 of 3540 Old Today, 01:08 AM
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Dr_Mark, thank you for the information. You really put a lot of effort in listening to the DALI's. I have something to add, ofcourse ()

I think we must never forget that we are talking about the potential of speakers when we talk about them. The circumstances are important, and these are:

1. amplifier/quality of the source
2. room/roomacoustics / dsp
3. listening triangle, speaker placement.

In general: place a small speaker in a big room: bad sound. The other way around: idem ditto. And a good speaker in a acoustic not treated room will never will never come to it's full potential. I see lots of expensive speakers in bad rooms - and this is such a waste.

Ehm, I think that DALI made a big mistake with the H800mk2.

H800mk2 need a very good amp (this is most times not the problem and lots of speakers do) and the H800mk2 should only be in a big(ger) room and despite the technical brochure: they should stay away from walls at least a meter, the distance between the speakers should be at least 2 meters, but preferably 3 meter - no more - and the room should be acoustic improved. At least the floor, the first wall and the side walls.

If the circumstances for the H800mk2 are right, then they will not sound harsh at all (depending on the music ofcourse, harsh music will sound harsh), there will be perfect balanced bass that has much more power then the E6 and the imaging is very good - and I agree with dr_mark: much better then most speakers up to this price-class. The level of details is amazing and the H800mk2 do not miss a single detail compared to the E6.

So I guess the mistake DALI made with the H800mk2 is that they expected people who are willing to spend lots of money on speakers, are also willing to put lots of effort in the circumstances and let's face it: most people don't do that. It's really difficult to make the H800mk2's sing It seems that the E6 is more forgiving considering the circumstances. Very smart of Dali.

I can see that you are really into the Epicons and I admire your enthusiasm. And I understand that DALI really want to sell the Epicons to current Helicon owners also - and if the E8 outplays the H800mk2 I am into the E's also - but it is impossible to compare the E6 with the H800mk2 in the same room. People should never buy the E6 instead of the H800mk2 just because it is a better speaker. They should consider:

- R8, H800mk2, E8 (big room, acoustics)
- R6, H400mk2, E6 (smaller room, acoustics)
- and so on.
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I almost bought the H800mk2's. I emailed Dali, Sound org, distributor before them. My Dealer, back to Dali and all of them said for my room, the 800's would be a disaster. The comment was "it would over compress the room." I never even looked at them after.


I figure the Epicon 8 would be an even worse disaster for my room.

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