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post #3631 of 3644 Old 10-21-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tsal View Post
I am kind of lacking the words to describe the differences. Also the Helicon series and Rubicon series are somewhat hard to compare as Rubicon 2 lacks the ribbon, which is crucial for front soundstage in my opinion. I love Dali ribbon hybrid tweeter or should I say my ears love it. Helicon series has been my favorite until Epicon. For some reason I always thought Helicon 400/800 was better in "overall pleasantness" than Euphonia MS4. Never had the opportunity to properly test Euphonia MS5. Helicon was and still is simply awesome, I will always love them. As I was comparing the speakers for this moment, I simply tested them for surround and rear sound in a multichannel setup with Epicon front. As a stand alone two speaker setup, I would say that Helicon and Rubicon have different sound characteristics and it would be something that people should test themselves, which one they prefer. If you have had the opportunity to compare Epicon and Helicon... and knowing that the Rubicon series is much closer to Epicon than any of the previous Dali series speakers in overall "sound" then you know what to expect. If you have to use speakers from different series for a match with Epicon front, then Rubicon is a good choice in my current experience and better than Mentor/Helicon. If you go for Helicon front, then Rubicon will not help you as rear speakers and my advice would be to get a Helicon (or Euphonia?) series rear speakers.
I agree: if the Rubicon is like the Epicon, they will sound different from the Helicon series.
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post #3632 of 3644 Old 10-23-2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by strand_dk View Post
Got the Helicon 400 speakers for 6 years now, and still enjoy them every day. Had have a lot of different amps playing on them throw the years, April Stello, NAD M3, Primare and for now Harman Kardon HK 990. Trying to save up some money to maybe by the HALO 21, it is pretty expensive where i live, around $ 4000, money worth white the Dali's?.
I do not think that you will get much improvement compared to the NAD M3 you once had. Maybe the M3 is even better then the Halo 21, since it is dual mono integrated and very well built. You must have had a good reason to replace the NAD M3.. I wonder if the Halo 21 will bring you what you need. Maybe if you tell us why you want to change? Lack of power? Bass, too much? Imaging? If you suffered any of these problems with the NAD M3 in your system, then you can be sure that the Halo will not help you.
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post #3633 of 3644 Old 10-29-2014, 05:51 AM
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Hallo!
This is my first post in this forum!
So, about my system and “problems/questions”…

I have listened to my audio/video system and Dali speakers for over a year and I love sound of Dali Ikon 6 mk2 speakers! Unfortunately, in recent months I have appeared a couple of questions about improving sound of my audio/video system.
My current system consists of Yamaha RX-A830 AVR (bi-amping), Dali Ikon 6 mk2 – front (Inakustik LS-602 cable), Ikon vocal 2 mk2 – centre, Dali E-9 F sub and Zensor 1 as surround speakers. As sources I use Sony BDP-S790 for DVD and Bluray, and Marantz CD6005 for CD.
I am using my system ~60% music, ~40% movies…

So my fist question will be regarding to current system Stereo sound:
- Can really Yamaha RX-A830 do the best amplification for Ikon 6 mk2 speakers? Is it worth to add external stereo power amp or integrate stereo amplifier to get the best out of the speakers? If it is worth to add, then what particular stereo power amps or stereo integrated amps do you recommend?

So second question would be about your new speakers – Rubicon:
- If I would like to replace Ikon 6 with Rubicon 6, what then would be the best amplification for front speakers? My living room is ~30m2 large, but the biggest problem is that I cannot move speakers more than ~15-20cm from rear wall…

Thank you in advance!

Samsung ue55f8000stxxh / Yamaha RX-A830 with YWA-10 / Dali Ikon 6 mk2 - front (bi-amp) / Dali Ikon vokal 2 mk2 - centre / Dali Zensor 1 on Dali connect stand E-600 - surround / Dali E-9 F sub / Sony bdp-s790 / Marantz cd6005 / LTC ITV /
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post #3634 of 3644 Old 10-29-2014, 08:19 AM
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Rubicon 6

So second question would be about your new speakers – Rubicon:
- If I would like to replace Ikon 6 with Rubicon 6, what then would be the best amplification for front speakers? My living room is ~30m2 large, but the biggest problem is that I cannot move speakers more than ~15-20cm from rear wall…
Hi,

I had nearly the same problem as you. My room is also ca. 30 m2 and I can’t have them more than 20cm from the wall. I even thinking of buying the Rubicon 8 not because I need the power but I will listen not always to high but still want the fundament. Anyway, I almost gave up on them as its too much money for those great speakers to have them only this far away from the wall. Yes, they say from 20cm in the brochures but I think that you need at least 50cm to enjoy all of it. I also listened to both speakers and they both have a really good and deep bas...but here you will get problems towards the wall with reflections.
Then one day I came to a Swedish hifi store and there they had the new Rubicon 8 like 15 cm from the wall. My first questions was if they are joking to have this big speakers on the wall. He then turned on the receiver and the sound was really bad...what I also mentioned. But the guy said wait a second I will just push that button on the amp and what can I say...the sound was great...no distortion or something like that....than he explained me the new Lyngdorf tdai 2170 fully digital amplifier. This amp comes with a microphone and will measure you room and adjust the speakers too your specific room automatically...and it really works without changing the sound of the speaker! you will find a test on audiovideo.
problem is that this amp is quite expensive but I see no other way in order to enjoy great speakers even near the wall......
Hope that will help you!

In general can I just say that I thought about the B&W Cm10 S2 or the Rubicon 6 or 8. I liked the tweeter sound of the B&W slightly more but when coming to the fundament the B&W s have no chance at all (listened to them in the same room!). So much power (positive) and room filling from the Rubicons where really something and I will buy next year 6 or 8…not a money issue but I am a little afraid (3 young kids and a flat with other parties) that they (8) will be too much…on the other hand will the Lyngdorf Amp take care of it. On one hand I was first a little pissed of as I do not wanted to spend this money on a new amp (specially as Rubicons need no big amp) but on the other hand I am happy that this amp is out there for people who can’t have the speaker 1 m in the room…and I guess that are quite a lot people.
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post #3635 of 3644 Old 10-30-2014, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regiss View Post
So my fist question will be regarding to current system Stereo sound:
- Can really Yamaha RX-A830 do the best amplification for Ikon 6 mk2 speakers? Is it worth to add external stereo power amp or integrate stereo amplifier to get the best out of the speakers? If it is worth to add, then what particular stereo power amps or stereo integrated amps do you recommend?
There is definitely possibility for sound quality improvement with another amplifier for Dali Ikons. As RX-A830 is at the low end range of AVRs for Yamaha and in way in general. Don't get me wrong, it is good entry level choice and Yamaha is known for high reliability. The basic problem for helping is the question of budget, how big it is etc. As Yamaha's YPAO room eq can't eq subwoofer below 62.5hz (and if you haven't got an another eq for it) then you might benefit very noticeably from a AVR with Audyssey (Denon maybe).

Quote:
So second question would be about your new speakers – Rubicon:
- If I would like to replace Ikon 6 with Rubicon 6, what then would be the best amplification for front speakers? My living room is ~30m2 large, but the biggest problem is that I cannot move speakers more than ~15-20cm from rear wall…
This is a more complicated question as it first appears. For multichannel listening Ikon Vokal will be quite different from Rubicon 6 in sound characteristic and you might end up with very mixed front soundstage. If you we're able to upgrade the whole front (fr+fl+c) then it would make more sense, BUT there is no center channel speaker in Rubicon range. Rubicon LCR might do the trick, but it is something I would hesitate to recommend - also they are usually sold in pairs.

Ikon Vokal might go ok with Rubicon's, but that would be something to test before deciding?

If you are happy with your Ikon 6 mk2 and Ikon Vokal. For multichannel I would test Ikon 1 for the surround and try a different subwoofer and maybe a AVR with Audyssey EQ (propably with Atmos nowadays). That would leave room for later Dolby Atmos speaker upgrades, when they are available from Dali. Otherwise you'll propably end up upgrading your whole system... and with Rubicon... it won't come "cheap". Yet hi-fi, high end(ish) or for sure the real high end it will never be cheap and in a way there wouldn't be any point anymore if it we're.

For stereo listening... Rubicon 6 with a good stereo amp you will be able top your current setup "easily", but will need a subwoofer upgrade too (if you would still use it with these).
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post #3636 of 3644 Old 10-30-2014, 02:13 PM
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Hi.. Long time lurker, 1st time poster.

I am thinking of getting a Dali Zensor 1 5.1 system.. And I have a couple questions:

1) What would be a good AV receiver for it in terms of Tonal matching? I don't like to have an overly bright treble...

2) Would you say that the sweetspot is wide ? Because I am thinking of integrating it in my living room.. And the sweetspot probably needs to be wide enough for multiple viewers..

3) Should I go for one of Dali's subwoofers (Namely E-12F or E-9F) ? Or would an ID subwoofer give me a better performance ? My material is mostly Movies and TV

4) Would the system be able to fill a 6x7 meter room ? Or would the room need more ?

Thanks for your help..
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post #3637 of 3644 Old 10-31-2014, 12:25 AM
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I think there will be no upgrade for the Evidence. Here in Germany they will sell not often.
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post #3638 of 3644 Old 11-01-2014, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regiss View Post
I love sound of Dali Ikon 6 mk2 speakers!
and they received great reviews.

personally i hated them

i owned them exactly 24 hours

indeed everyone is different

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #3639 of 3644 Old 11-03-2014, 11:43 PM
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Using a pair of Mentor 5's, I upgraded my Denon PMA 2000r ('the beast') to a Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista M3 amp. I can only say 'wow', what a huge difference. I didn't the Mentor's were capable of delivering such a performance.

Strange thing happened. With the Denon I had a lot of trouble with the bass / reflection of walls (as described a few posts above). I also noticed that moving the Dali's away from the wall, had a positive effect. Now with the Nu-Vista M3, these problem are gone. And the bass isn't any weaker, instead it has a lot more 'punch'.
I don't know exaclty why, but it gives me the feeling that the Denon might not had the full potential of driving the Dali's?

Anyway, wanted to let you know about the sweet match between Dali and this MF m3 amp.
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post #3640 of 3644 Old 11-04-2014, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post
personally i hated them
i owned them exactly 24 hours
Why it was so? Can you describe?

Samsung ue55f8000stxxh / Yamaha RX-A830 with YWA-10 / Dali Ikon 6 mk2 - front (bi-amp) / Dali Ikon vokal 2 mk2 - centre / Dali Zensor 1 on Dali connect stand E-600 - surround / Dali E-9 F sub / Sony bdp-s790 / Marantz cd6005 / LTC ITV /
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post #3641 of 3644 Old 11-04-2014, 12:35 PM
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Mctabasco, Tsal, Alexj84nl, thank you for your comments and advices!

Actually I’m not a bass head! So more bass is not my question… Main goals for my stereo sound upgrade would be – more clarity, separation, dynamics and precise.

So theoretically, is it possible to improve stereo sound by adding power amplifier to my AVR through preout? I am looking to Exposure 3010s2 and Roksan Kandy K2 power amps.

Any opinions, advices?


About Rubicons – actually it was good point that they might not match Ikon Vokal center… thanks for it!

Samsung ue55f8000stxxh / Yamaha RX-A830 with YWA-10 / Dali Ikon 6 mk2 - front (bi-amp) / Dali Ikon vokal 2 mk2 - centre / Dali Zensor 1 on Dali connect stand E-600 - surround / Dali E-9 F sub / Sony bdp-s790 / Marantz cd6005 / LTC ITV /
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post #3642 of 3644 Old 11-04-2014, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regiss View Post
Why it was so? Can you describe?
harsh

like listening to a cheap Klipsch

I am not trying to knock them, they got great reviews. Just not for me.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #3643 of 3644 Old 11-13-2014, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regiss View Post
Hallo!
This is my first post in this forum!
So, about my system and “problems/questions”…

I have listened to my audio/video system and Dali speakers for over a year and I love sound of Dali Ikon 6 mk2 speakers! Unfortunately, in recent months I have appeared a couple of questions about improving sound of my audio/video system.
My current system consists of Yamaha RX-A830 AVR (bi-amping), Dali Ikon 6 mk2 – front (Inakustik LS-602 cable), Ikon vocal 2 mk2 – centre, Dali E-9 F sub and Zensor 1 as surround speakers. As sources I use Sony BDP-S790 for DVD and Bluray, and Marantz CD6005 for CD.
I am using my system ~60% music, ~40% movies…

So my fist question will be regarding to current system Stereo sound:
- Can really Yamaha RX-A830 do the best amplification for Ikon 6 mk2 speakers? Is it worth to add external stereo power amp or integrate stereo amplifier to get the best out of the speakers? If it is worth to add, then what particular stereo power amps or stereo integrated amps do you recommend?

So second question would be about your new speakers – Rubicon:
- If I would like to replace Ikon 6 with Rubicon 6, what then would be the best amplification for front speakers? My living room is ~30m2 large, but the biggest problem is that I cannot move speakers more than ~15-20cm from rear wall…

Thank you in advance!

The third question... what effect to stereo sound would make replacement of AVR – from Yamaha RX-A830 to Yamaha RX-A2040?

Or better way is to add power amp (exposure 2010s2 or 3010s2)?

Samsung ue55f8000stxxh / Yamaha RX-A830 with YWA-10 / Dali Ikon 6 mk2 - front (bi-amp) / Dali Ikon vokal 2 mk2 - centre / Dali Zensor 1 on Dali connect stand E-600 - surround / Dali E-9 F sub / Sony bdp-s790 / Marantz cd6005 / LTC ITV /
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post #3644 of 3644 Old 11-20-2014, 02:48 AM
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Can anyone compare (comment) sound of Rubicon 6 and Ikon 6 mk2?

Samsung ue55f8000stxxh / Yamaha RX-A830 with YWA-10 / Dali Ikon 6 mk2 - front (bi-amp) / Dali Ikon vokal 2 mk2 - centre / Dali Zensor 1 on Dali connect stand E-600 - surround / Dali E-9 F sub / Sony bdp-s790 / Marantz cd6005 / LTC ITV /
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