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post #451 of 3553 Old 11-19-2007, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozvz View Post

Dan,

Unfortunately, no information yet. I sent the email last week. It's possible it was lost or he has not had the time. I suggest if my contact does not respond, audition and then tell us what you hear and see if the Helicon's and Mentor's are available.

still no reply from the dali rep??

maybe hes trying to hide something.. i can almost feel the mentors are 90% of the helicons just not as gorgeous....
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post #452 of 3553 Old 11-19-2007, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchaforce View Post

still no reply from the dali rep??

maybe hes trying to hide something.. i can almost feel the mentors are 90% of the helicons just not as gorgeous....

Nothing came back yet. To be honest, I am not going to request again only because I do not want to go to the well to often. I suggest if you have the inclination, audition the Mentor's and the Helicon's if you can. Dali dealers unfortunately are not on every corner as you know. Also, send an email to Dali yourself and see if you can resolve the answer. Hiding is a very strong word, but the only way to prove the "hidden concept" is to find out yourself?

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post #453 of 3553 Old 11-19-2007, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozvz View Post

Nothing came back yet. To be honest, I am not going to request again only because I do not want to go to the well to often. I suggest if you have the inclination, audition the Mentor's and the Helicon's if you can. Dali dealers unfortunately are not on every corner as you know. Also, send an email to Dali yourself and see if you can resolve the answer. Hiding is a very strong word, but the only way to prove the "hidden concept" is to find out yourself?

Charles

Charles, didn't you once mention there is a specific 3M cleaning cloth I should use on the Helicons? I would love to find out what it is.
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post #454 of 3553 Old 11-19-2007, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by win200 View Post

Has Cary set an MSRP for this yet? I looked on their website and didn't see a mention of it. I'm an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray owner, and it's driving me nuts that none of the high-end companies have released a pre/pro that can handle the new codecs. If Cary released a separate box that handled these, I'll be selling my Krell Showcase and acquiring a Cinema 11...

The 11a has a MSRP of $3000 and the 11v a MSRP of $3500. If you are truly interested in them send me a PM and I can put you in contact with a place to get a substancial discount.
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post #455 of 3553 Old 11-19-2007, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

Charles, didn't you once mention there is a specific 3M cleaning cloth I should use on the Helicons? I would love to find out what it is.

Ryden,

This was verbatim from the owners manual.

"Clean the cabinets with a soft, dry cloth (microfiber is recommended). If the cabinets are dirty, wipe with a soft cloth dipped in all-purpose cleaner and then wrung out. Be very careful when wiping the speaker cones/domes, as they are very fragile. Grilles can be vacuumed and wiped with a well-wrung, lint-free cloth and mild all-purpose cleaner. Minor surface scratches can be carefully polished away with polish. We recommend 3M Finesse-it, 3M item no. 09639."

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post #456 of 3553 Old 11-19-2007, 08:29 AM
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A question about bi wiring to those who have done it on the Dali's. How beneficial is it and did you notice an appreciable difference in the sound once they were bi wired?

I'm thinking of bi-wiring the front's but would love some feedback before i go that route.

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post #457 of 3553 Old 11-19-2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daman S View Post

A question about bi wiring to those who have done it on the Dali's. How beneficial is it and did you notice an appreciable difference in the sound once they were bi wired?

I'm thinking of bi-wiring the front's but would love some feedback before i go that route.

I cannot do an A/B comparision of non bi-wire versus bi-wire because I only bi-wire mine, but I can tell you it sounds great. Dali recommends in the manual that you bi-wire whenever possible, and not only the fronts but for the center channel as well.
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post #458 of 3553 Old 11-19-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

I cannot do an A/B comparision of non bi-wire versus bi-wire because I only bi-wire mine, but I can tell you it sounds great. Dali recommends in the manual that you bi-wire whenever possible, and not only the fronts but for the center channel as well.

Thanks for that response Rydenfan. I'll try and bi-wire them tonight and try to cross compare myself then. I have the jumper's on at present. I'll post up with my impressions.

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post #459 of 3553 Old 11-19-2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daman S View Post

Thanks for that response Rydenfan. I'll try and bi-wire them tonight and try to cross compare myself then. I have the jumper's on at present. I'll post up with my impressions.

I am curious what your thoughts will be Daman... Please let us know what your results are!! I did not want to corrupt your testing with my opinion.

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post #460 of 3553 Old 11-20-2007, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadr View Post

I know there are some people using the Dali's as surround sound speakers and I wanted some feedback on their ability to create a diffuse soundstage for rear effects. I am building a new home and looking at doing Helicon phantoms across the front and Ikons as the 4 rear channels. My concern is that the center would have to be mounted below or above the TV and since it is inwall I would not have the ability to angle it towards the listening area so it would need to have wide vertical dispersion and I cannot get a feel for if they would perform properly in that setting.

The same is true of the rears. I know they are known for their wide horizontal dispersion but I and wondering about their abilities as rear speakers. I am in south central PA and have no Dali dealers nearby.

chadr,

I have Helicons across the front and Ikons for the four surrounds in a 7.1 system, and that works very well for me.

My audio system was professionally calibrated by UMR, at the same time he did my TV, and he commented the Ikons are a good timbre match to the Helicons.

I was a bit concerned about diffusion when choosing the Dalis, as my surround speakers are fairly close to the listening position and the Ikons are direct radiators. But I have been very pleased by the surround envelopment the system provides.

My Center is mounted above a 71" RPTV, but it's a C200 rather than an in-wall and I have it angled downward toward the listening position.

FYI, I've attached a couple of photos.

Thanks
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post #461 of 3553 Old 11-23-2007, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozvz View Post

I am curious what your thoughts will be Daman... Please let us know what your results are!! I did not want to corrupt your testing with my opinion.

Thought ill post up my opinion now that I've finally managed to listen to the setup a bit. There is a marked improvement in the whole sound stage after bi wiring.

It was most noticeable while playing music for me, i popped in the dire straits sacd and the whole front sound stage seemed to have opened up like a veil was lifted from the speakers. Though its kind of hard to describe, i felt that the vocals were much more clearer and the whole sound seems to be less muddy and the highs also improved. Overall the whole sound stage was more life like than before. Even my wife noticed the improvement. So a definite thumb's up for bi-wiring from me

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post #462 of 3553 Old 11-24-2007, 04:54 PM
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One quick question for any Helicon owners. My room is 14' x 19.5' with 9' ceilings. I can place the speakers about 20" from the side walls and 18" from the back wall. I have a 7' long by 24" high credenza in the middle where I will place the center channel. The speakers would be about 11' apart and the sweet spot is about 11' from the center channel. Would this room be too small for the 800's, but right for the 400's and would my placement get the best out of the speakers? I use it for 80% movies and 20% music. Thanks for your thoughts.
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post #463 of 3553 Old 11-25-2007, 07:30 AM
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Pride,

One persons opinion would be the 400's would be a better choice. I think the 800's require a very large room. The room you are describing is around 2500 CF. I like the 18" from the back of the wall, but the 20" is not a lot of space on the sides. With an 80/20 ratio favoring HT, I assume you have a sub, so the bass would be handled by the sub and I see little advantage of having the 800's and it may even complicate setup with a room your size. Yes, the 800's is a 3 way speaker, but from what I've read, they require a very large room. Considering you are more HT, I'd opt for the 400's. You may even consider the 300's using a sub which would save you some money, but then you have to deal with speaker stands. YMMV

I'd like someone else to provide their opinion too.

Charles

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post #464 of 3553 Old 11-25-2007, 07:51 AM
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Charles,
Thanks for your thoughts. I also think the 400's would be the choice but was just wondering why others would choose to go with the 800's. And by the time I can do this I will be looking at the MKII's anyway.

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post #465 of 3553 Old 11-30-2007, 02:59 PM
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Hi guys. I have an option of getting 4. Ikon 6 floor standing speakers to use as mains and rear channels, Is there any benefit in using the Ikon 6 as rears as opposed to using either the Ikon In wall or the ikon 2? Also I have been reading about center channels here on the forums and people dont seem to like the mid-tweeter-mid speakers, isn´t that what the vokal 1 and vokal 2 are? If so would you reccomend any other center channels to partner with the Dali´s.

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post #466 of 3553 Old 11-30-2007, 07:26 PM
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I have yet to read a negative review of any Dali center channel speaker, in fact quite the opposite. Most people rave about the speaker. I do not have any experience with the Ikon Vokal, but I run the Helicon C200 and it is a very impressive center channel.
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post #467 of 3553 Old 12-01-2007, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

I have yet to read a negative review of any Dali center channel speaker, in fact quite the opposite. Most people rave about the speaker. I do not have any experience with the Ikon Vokal, but I run the Helicon C200 and it is a very impressive center channel.

Ok thanks, how about the other question are there any downsides in using floorstanders as rears?

Regards

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post #468 of 3553 Old 12-01-2007, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by john-clark View Post

Ok thanks, how about the other question are there any downsides in using floorstanders as rears?

Regards

John

Not at all. The more speaker the better, especially if you listen to a lot of high rez surround music.
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post #469 of 3553 Old 12-04-2007, 10:15 AM
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Having all 5 speakers exactly the same is the best solution possible - especially for high-res multichannel music. So, by all means using 4 Ikon 6 is a very good solution.
My only advice is to check them thoroughly before you take them home (even if they are in their original, unopened boxes) as I had exactly the same problem as shanemcr (see post #233) with mine.

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post #470 of 3553 Old 12-08-2007, 08:50 AM
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I have a pair of Dali Helicon MK2 arriving Tuesday. I will let you know my impressions. I currently have a pair of Dali Helicon 400 that they will be replacing.
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post #471 of 3553 Old 12-08-2007, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by diamonds View Post

I have a pair of Dali Helicon MK2 arriving Tuesday. I will let you know my impressions. I currently have a pair of Dali Helicon 400 that they will be replacing.


I very much look forward to your comments. Did you get 400's again? Or did you move to the 800's?
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post #472 of 3553 Old 12-08-2007, 09:56 AM
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I got the 400s because my sons room is not big enough to hanlde the 800s.
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post #473 of 3553 Old 12-08-2007, 10:04 AM
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How big is your room as I may be making the same decision someday soon, whether to go with the 400's or 800's. I will also be looking forward to hearing how the new MKII's compare to your previous 400's. Did you ever compare the Helicon's to the Euphonia's? If so I would like to know how the old and new compare to the Euphonia's. Thanks

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post #474 of 3553 Old 12-08-2007, 05:01 PM
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Hi, I have just ordered the Marantz sr8002 a/v reciever and 4 Ikon-6 floorstanders I´m worried about the reciever not being powerfull enough to drive the speakers, Am I needlessly worried or is it a possibility?

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post #475 of 3553 Old 12-08-2007, 06:28 PM
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John,

The Ikon's after checking the spec's are 6 ohm speakers and Dali recommends minimum 25 to 150 watts. I think you may be needlessly worried only because the receiver after reading the spec's does 125 watts per channel at 8 ohms. The worse case scenario IF you not happy with the results, stay with what you have, save some extra money and purchase an external amp using the pre-outs of the Marantz. I think you are covered either way. I would recommend external amplification anyway, but try the receiver as is and let us know what the results are. Sleep well!!

Charles

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post #476 of 3553 Old 12-08-2007, 07:49 PM
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Hey Charles, any more thoughts on the MKII's not that they have broken in more?
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post #477 of 3553 Old 12-08-2007, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

Hey Charles, any more thoughts on the MKII's not that they have broken in more?

Hey Ryden,

They are great!! I don't miss the 400's in the least. The differences between the 300 MKII and original 400 is the full physical size of the floor stander, a different crossover and of course the extra 6 1/2 " driver. The new binding posts are great because they allow you to get a really firm grip on the banana plugs I am using. Cosmetics are a moot point.

This is from the review on the UK web site and what they have to say about the bass driver on the 300 MKII. I assume all the new Helicon's have the same construction. The supposed bloom of course has always been debated.

Quote:


"The bass driver remains a small-ish unit, with a stiff, lightweight paper pulp cone with a coated surface treatment. A second magnet has been added, which provides a degree of - but not complete - magnetic shielding.

Other changes include a new softer rubber surround, and a new impregnated linen spider, in both cases optimised for longer excursions and therefore higher maximum SPLs. The changes result in a somewhat better, more precisely controlled bass, though still with a touch of the bloom that characterized the original model."

In my situation, The JL Fathom compensates readily for the lack of the extra driver that was in the 400 for 2.1 and 5.1. I am actually using one of the leftover 300 originals for a center channel and it sounds fine. I was thinking of selling the extra pair of original 300's that I have and tried here in the Marketplace, but they did not sell. I may just keep them when all is said and done. I sure as hell will not give them away.

Honestly, I cannot tell the difference between the MKII and the original Helicon as the highs, mids and dispersion seem to be the identical. I've never professed to have "Golden Ears" but if there is a difference in that area, I cannot discern it. It's difficult to tell about the lower frequencies because I went from the original Helicon 400 (two 6 1/2 inch drivers) to the 300 MKII (one 6 1/2 inch driver) and I don't think it's a fair comparison in the lower end because I am not comparing apples to apples.

Again, my room is small and the size itself is a bugger because of the dimensions, which is not an ideal audio room after some research. (10.5 X 13.5 X 9) However, I've done everything that I can using GIK stuff and attempting to be smart about placement. It is a dedicated room so I can do what I want with the exception of listen at reference level any time that I desire.

One of the things I've learned is if you have a small to mid sized room, place the 300's on quality stands and supplement the low end with a quality sub woofer, IMHO, the 400's whatever version can be overkill. However, I do understand why people buy them, but these monitors are very, very good. Actually, in straight 2 channel minus the sub, the 300's are more then adequate here as I've experimented with the sub in and out of the chain. However, the Fathom takes the load of the speakers when needed in 2.1. Heck, that's what I bought the sub for anyway, so I may as well use it.

I do like having 4 identical speakers as the presentation is different then before where I had 400's as fronts and the 300's for rears. Multi channel music is much more enjoyable. I can't explain the sonics of it, but it kinda sounds more balanced???? That statement could be psychosomatic on my part though, but it seems to sound better. All speakers have always been calibrated the same so that is the reason for my comment.

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post #478 of 3553 Old 12-09-2007, 08:38 AM
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Very interesting post Charles, glad that the MKII's are working out so well for you. So are you are running a 3.1 setup now? How different do you find it from the 5.1 setup earlier.

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post #479 of 3553 Old 12-09-2007, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daman S View Post

Very interesting post Charles, glad that the MKII's are working out so well for you. So are you are running a 3.1 setup now? How different do you find it from the 5.1 setup earlier.

NO on the 3.1 setup.

I have a 5.1 setup with 3 pairs of Helicon 300's with one speaker in the closet that's in pristine condition. I am using one pair of the 300 MKII's for fronts and one pair of the 300 MKII's for the rears. At the moment I using ONE Helicon 300 original version for the center channel lying on its side. I also recently purchased a Marantz SA-11S2 to add to the mix.

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post #480 of 3553 Old 12-09-2007, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozvz View Post

NO on the 3.1 setup.

I have a 5.1 setup with 3 pairs of Helicon 300's with one speaker in the closet that's in pristine condition. I am using one pair of the 300 MKII's for fronts and one pair of the 300 MKII's for the rears. At the moment I using ONE Helicon 300 original version for the center channel lying on its side. I also recently purchased a Marantz SA-11S2 to add to the mix.

Charles, thank you so much for the write up! Very interesting. 5 identical speakers must be incredible for MC music and HT. And you decide you want to part with a pair of 300's drop me a PM. I could use my in-walls and the 300's for a 7.1 system..
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