Dali speakers - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3567 Old 01-08-2008, 11:35 AM
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I do not believe there are any pairs left of the original style. I know I got the last pair of Rosenut 400's
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post #542 of 3567 Old 01-08-2008, 11:39 AM
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There is always Audiogon.. There are a few pair on there now.

"Man plans, God laughs"
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post #543 of 3567 Old 01-08-2008, 08:42 PM
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And I know who just got the last pair of 800's in Cherry!

Sitting here looking at some of the finest cabinetry I have ever seen.
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post #544 of 3567 Old 01-09-2008, 05:52 AM
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Here is a nice shot of the Dali & Cary setup from CES

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/fi...y/Large151.jpg
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post #545 of 3567 Old 01-11-2008, 01:24 PM
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According to my local dealer, the ikon and mentor sound almost the same. The only difference is the finish. Anyone want to confirm?

There is a nice pair on audigon auction at the moment, very tempting.
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post #546 of 3567 Old 01-11-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huttizo View Post

According to my local dealer, the ikon and mentor sound almost the same. The only difference is the finish. Anyone want to confirm?

There is a nice pair on audigon auction at the moment, very tempting.

That is not my experience. I would put the mentor closer to the helicon line in sound than the ikons.
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post #547 of 3567 Old 01-11-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega View Post

That is not my experience. I would put the mentor closer to the helicon line in sound than the ikons.

+1

Especially now that there is a Center Channel for the Mentor line.
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post #548 of 3567 Old 01-11-2008, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huttizo View Post

According to my local dealer, the ikon and mentor sound almost the same. The only difference is the finish. Anyone want to confirm?

There is a nice pair on audigon auction at the moment, very tempting.

I am fortunate enough to have the Ikon, Mentor, Helicon, and Euphonia side by side in my showroom. I can tell you that as good as the Ikons are for the money, the Mentors are a step above.

The new Mentor Vokal center channel is amazing and anchors it the Mentor line as a serious home theater contender. The sound is closer to the Helicon line than the Ikon line IMO.

You cant go wrong with any of the speakers, as they are all very good. It more or less just depends on how much you want to spend (Mentors are quite a bit more than the Ikons). Also as with any higher-end speakers you will only realize the full benefit with better amplification, processing, etc.
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post #549 of 3567 Old 01-11-2008, 07:37 PM
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Folks,

Finally got settled into our much smaller apartment after having moved from our awesome house with a dedicated listening/HT room. The living/dining room of our apartment is 13.5'x23.5' with 9' ceilings. As you can see the (somewhat messy) setup right now with left and rights, and the center channel in the TV stand. I would not have a problem moving the speakers away from the side walls, but do not have all that much space to deal with to move them forward.
With that said, I have listened to and really like the Helicon 400 MkIIs as a replacement for my B&W 602 S3s. I have not, and probably will not, have the opportunity to audition the Mentors at all, as there are no dealers in the area. So, do you all think I have enough space for the 400s?
Secondly, what speaker wires do you recommend? I'm not sold on spending a ridiculous (IMHO) on cables, but don't have a problem paying around $100-200 for the fronts (the rear speakers would require almost 25' of cable unfortunately).
Looking forward to seeing what you all have to say.
LL

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post #550 of 3567 Old 01-12-2008, 05:31 AM
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Due to the Helicons being a rear ported speaker they really need to be as far away from the back wall as possible. Mine are around 12" away and I wish they could be at least another 6", but that is just not feasible for me. That being said I still absolutely love my Helicons!!

I would think for your room size that the 300's on stands were be a better match. They are an incredible speaker, and would probably fill your room no problem. The 400's might be a little too much speaker for that room?

Another thing you need to consider is the size of the Helicon Center Channel. It is quite large and will not fit inside most stands. If you look through the thread you can find some pics of my setup. I used a Salamander shelf to go on top of my stand and put the center in between. The center channel runs just over 8" tall and is quite long. Best of luck to you and I hope you end of with some Dali's as they are an incredible speaker.
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post #551 of 3567 Old 01-12-2008, 10:07 AM
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I just took delivery of a brand, spankin' new Parasound Halo A21 power amp and a pair of very gently used Dali Helicon 800s Mark 1 in rosewood. I've been running them in for the past couple of days and the sound is starting to open up nicely. But I have a few questions:

1) I gather the amp requires between 50 and 100 hours of burn in, but what about the speakers? The dealer told me they only had between 5 and 20 hours on them (they were way more expensive than the rest of the gear they sold, so they didn't get a lot of folks coming in to listen to them). I've heard anywhere between 100 and 500 hours!!

2) Currently, I've got them single wired with Van den Hull CS 122 Hybrid speaker wire. I think I'd like to bi-wire them based on what others here have said about the improvement. Any recommendations on a good wire for a slightly bright sounding setup (it's the room)?

3) Listening levels - I don't have an SPL meter (but I think I may invest in one), but I'm hearing a tremendous difference in sound quality between a fairly quiet volume (where two people can have a conversation) and much louder volume (not exactly concert hall levels, but one which would make having a conversation difficult). I have to admit that I detected this significant difference when I demoed the amp and speakers at the dealer's, but it was a very large, untreated room, so I discounted the difference in making my buying decision). What are my alternatives here? What are your experiences with the differences in sound quality at lower listening levels?

4) Spikes - I've currently got the speakers sitting on a couple of small rugs I bought. I've got the spikes and Target discs to receive the spikes so as not to destroy the hardwood flooring. What sonic benefits should I realize when I get them on the spikes? Just curious.

5) Grills - on or off?

6) My room is quite lively - it's 12'x20'x8'. The stereo is set up on the short wall and the listening position is around 16' from the front of the speakers. The speakers are unfortunately, fairly close to the back wall (18") and about 2' from the side wall on one side. There is no side wall on the other side, as it's the open entrance to the room (no doors). I plan to pull the speakers out when I'm doing serious listening. Room treatments are not an option due to WAF issues. BTW, she loves the Dali's. Don't get me wrong, I love the high end I'm getting already - it's crystalline and not harsh or grating in the least. But I'm a little disappointed with the lower frequency at lower listening levels so far. My interconnects and speaker wire are all supposed to be good for the lower end. What are some other things I can look at? I've been reading up on DRC (digital room correction), but it seems a very expensive approach.

Thanks and sorry for such a long post.
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post #552 of 3567 Old 01-13-2008, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfest View Post

I just took delivery of a brand, spankin' new Parasound Halo A21 power amp and a pair of very gently used Dali Helicon 800s Mark 1 in rosewood. I've been running them in for the past couple of days and the sound is starting to open up nicely. But I have a few questions:

1) I gather the amp requires between 50 and 100 hours of burn in, but what about the speakers? The dealer told me they only had between 5 and 20 hours on them (they were way more expensive than the rest of the gear they sold, so they didn't get a lot of folks coming in to listen to them). I've heard anywhere between 100 and 500 hours!!

2) Currently, I've got them single wired with Van den Hull CS 122 Hybrid speaker wire. I think I'd like to bi-wire them based on what others here have said about the improvement. Any recommendations on a good wire for a slightly bright sounding setup (it's the room)?

3) Listening levels - I don't have an SPL meter (but I think I may invest in one), but I'm hearing a tremendous difference in sound quality between a fairly quiet volume (where two people can have a conversation) and much louder volume (not exactly concert hall levels, but one which would make having a conversation difficult). I have to admit that I detected this significant difference when I demoed the amp and speakers at the dealer's, but it was a very large, untreated room, so I discounted the difference in making my buying decision). What are my alternatives here? What are your experiences with the differences in sound quality at lower listening levels?

4) Spikes - I've currently got the speakers sitting on a couple of small rugs I bought. I've got the spikes and Target discs to receive the spikes so as not to destroy the hardwood flooring. What sonic benefits should I realize when I get them on the spikes? Just curious.

5) Grills - on or off?

6) My room is quite lively - it's 12'x20'x8'. The stereo is set up on the short wall and the listening position is around 16' from the front of the speakers. The speakers are unfortunately, fairly close to the back wall (18") and about 2' from the side wall on one side. There is no side wall on the other side, as it's the open entrance to the room (no doors). I plan to pull the speakers out when I'm doing serious listening. Room treatments are not an option due to WAF issues. BTW, she loves the Dali's. Don't get me wrong, I love the high end I'm getting already - it's crystalline and not harsh or grating in the least. But I'm a little disappointed with the lower frequency at lower listening levels so far. My interconnects and speaker wire are all supposed to be good for the lower end. What are some other things I can look at? I've been reading up on DRC (digital room correction), but it seems a very expensive approach.

Thanks and sorry for such a long post.

If the dealer had only run the speakers for about 5-20 hours, it is practically new. I'd suggest to burn-in as new. Typically, it takes 100 - 200 hours. It can take longer.

I think 18" is still too close to the wall. Try to bring out another 4 to 6. And, yes, add the bi-wire....I think you might change your opinion.
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post #553 of 3567 Old 01-14-2008, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfest View Post

I just took delivery of a brand, spankin' new Parasound Halo A21 power amp and a pair of very gently used Dali Helicon 800s Mark 1 in rosewood. I've been running them in for the past couple of days and the sound is starting to open up nicely. But I have a few questions:

1) I gather the amp requires between 50 and 100 hours of burn in, but what about the speakers? The dealer told me they only had between 5 and 20 hours on them (they were way more expensive than the rest of the gear they sold, so they didn't get a lot of folks coming in to listen to them). I've heard anywhere between 100 and 500 hours!!

2) Currently, I've got them single wired with Van den Hull CS 122 Hybrid speaker wire. I think I'd like to bi-wire them based on what others here have said about the improvement. Any recommendations on a good wire for a slightly bright sounding setup (it's the room)?

3) Listening levels - I don't have an SPL meter (but I think I may invest in one), but I'm hearing a tremendous difference in sound quality between a fairly quiet volume (where two people can have a conversation) and much louder volume (not exactly concert hall levels, but one which would make having a conversation difficult). I have to admit that I detected this significant difference when I demoed the amp and speakers at the dealer's, but it was a very large, untreated room, so I discounted the difference in making my buying decision). What are my alternatives here? What are your experiences with the differences in sound quality at lower listening levels?

4) Spikes - I've currently got the speakers sitting on a couple of small rugs I bought. I've got the spikes and Target discs to receive the spikes so as not to destroy the hardwood flooring. What sonic benefits should I realize when I get them on the spikes? Just curious.

5) Grills - on or off?

6) My room is quite lively - it's 12'x20'x8'. The stereo is set up on the short wall and the listening position is around 16' from the front of the speakers. The speakers are unfortunately, fairly close to the back wall (18") and about 2' from the side wall on one side. There is no side wall on the other side, as it's the open entrance to the room (no doors). I plan to pull the speakers out when I'm doing serious listening. Room treatments are not an option due to WAF issues. BTW, she loves the Dali's. Don't get me wrong, I love the high end I'm getting already - it's crystalline and not harsh or grating in the least. But I'm a little disappointed with the lower frequency at lower listening levels so far. My interconnects and speaker wire are all supposed to be good for the lower end. What are some other things I can look at? I've been reading up on DRC (digital room correction), but it seems a very expensive approach.

Thanks and sorry for such a long post.

1. Speaker break in is subjective. Some will write it's a myth. Others swear by it. Dali and most sales people will tell you 500 hours or more. Please tell us if there is a difference after your experience.

2. Bi-wiring is another one that some can hear a difference and others think it's a myth. Try it and see if you can hear a difference. The bright sound you are describing is possibly the room. The Dali's are not bright sounding in my experience.

3. You'll need to calibrate your speakers. Don't make any assumptions about listening level balance until you do so.

4. I'm not sure what the Target Discs are, but if my suspicions are correct, they sit under the spikes to protect the wood floor. The bass should be tighter using those discs with the spikes.

5. Wax On. Wax Off. Try the speakers with the grills on and off. Tell us what you think. I don't think there is a difference either way. I always leave mine on for protection, but I have a bubbling 3 year old. A lot depends on what you also think is ascetically pleasing. I have never been a person who likes the naked driver look. That's me.

6. Room treatments would be ideal. You described a bright sound earlier and it's possibly the room. If you cannot do room treatments, then I'd suggest rugs, items on the walls and non-leather type seating. Absorbent type items in the room should help. However, the treatments would be idea if you have a lively room. As far as the digital room correction. It's probably best to do what you can with rugs, etc. and then make a decision from there. If you have a bright room, I am not sure if the digital room correction can truly compensate at all levels.

"Man plans, God laughs"
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post #554 of 3567 Old 01-14-2008, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozvz View Post

3. You'll need to calibrate your speakers. Don't make any assumptions about listening level balance until you do so.

4. I'm not sure what the Target Discs are, but if my suspicions are correct, they sit under the spikes to protect the wood floor. The bass should be tighter using those discs with the spikes.

6. Room treatments would be ideal. You described a bright sound earlier and it's possibly the room. If you cannot do room treatments, then I'd suggest rugs, items on the walls and non-leather type seating. Absorbent type items in the room should help. However, the treatments would be idea if you have a lively room. As far as the digital room correction. It's probably best to do what you can with rugs, etc. and then make a decision from there. If you have a bright room, I am not sure if the digital room correction can truly compensate at all levels.

Hi Mozvz,

Thanks for your reply.

3. I don't understand what you mean by calibrating the speakers. Could you explain, please?

4. Sorry about that - yes Target (not the department store) makes thick plastic discs that the spikes rest on. I used them for my speaker stands before getting the Dalis as I had monitors previously. I was going to use them again, but I see the Dali spike set comes with discs that have felt underneath. They will make sliding the speakers out away from the wall a lot easier, so I will be going with them. I haven't put the spikes in because clearly, it is a two person job and I haven't had a chance to invite my buddy over yet.

6. Room treatments - We've probably done just about everything wrong in the room! We had nice wall-to-wall carpeting, but we pulled it up and put down hardwood instead. There is a leather sofa and loveseat. The tables are glass! FWIW, there are heavy drapes on the window at the far end of the room (opposite the speakers). I draw them when listening. There is an area rug and an upholstered chair, plus there are canvas pictures on the walls (as opposed to glass framed pictures). There are also some plants in the two far corners on either side of the window. But I've got two large wooden cases that hold my CD collection, so the CDs are also probably reflecting a lot of sound.

I am limited in what else I can put in the room to absorb sound and to reduce reflection points.

Thanks.
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post #555 of 3567 Old 01-14-2008, 09:18 PM
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wow, Target spikes eh! Throw those in the trash, you want those puppies to have a solid foundation, putting them on top of those is doing nothing for your bottom end. I tilt my cabinet forward and then adjust accordingly.

What else is everyone using for speaker cables? Biwire or not?

I'm running a pair of old MIT MH750 from a Cinenova amp/AVM20v2

PTAX100- Hangin from Gyrolock
Dali Helicon 400/C200/Earthquake CineNova ;>)
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post #556 of 3567 Old 01-15-2008, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfest View Post

Hi Mozvz,

Thanks for your reply.

3. I don't understand what you mean by calibrating the speakers. Could you explain, please?

4. Sorry about that - yes Target (not the department store) makes thick plastic discs that the spikes rest on. I used them for my speaker stands before getting the Dalis as I had monitors previously. I was going to use them again, but I see the Dali spike set comes with discs that have felt underneath. They will make sliding the speakers out away from the wall a lot easier, so I will be going with them. I haven't put the spikes in because clearly, it is a two person job and I haven't had a chance to invite my buddy over yet.

6. Room treatments - We've probably done just about everything wrong in the room! We had nice wall-to-wall carpeting, but we pulled it up and put down hardwood instead. There is a leather sofa and loveseat. The tables are glass! FWIW, there are heavy drapes on the window at the far end of the room (opposite the speakers). I draw them when listening. There is an area rug and an upholstered chair, plus there are canvas pictures on the walls (as opposed to glass framed pictures). There are also some plants in the two far corners on either side of the window. But I've got two large wooden cases that hold my CD collection, so the CDs are also probably reflecting a lot of sound.

I am limited in what else I can put in the room to absorb sound and to reduce reflection points.

Thanks.

There is one thing you can do: put some foam padding behind the canvas frame. It would help asordbing some sound. Try some plants as well.
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post #557 of 3567 Old 01-15-2008, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfest View Post

Hi Mozvz,

Thanks for your reply.

3. I don't understand what you mean by calibrating the speakers. Could you explain, please?

4. Sorry about that - yes Target (not the department store) makes thick plastic discs that the spikes rest on. I used them for my speaker stands before getting the Dalis as I had monitors previously. I was going to use them again, but I see the Dali spike set comes with discs that have felt underneath. They will make sliding the speakers out away from the wall a lot easier, so I will be going with them. I haven't put the spikes in because clearly, it is a two person job and I haven't had a chance to invite my buddy over yet.

6. Room treatments - We've probably done just about everything wrong in the room! We had nice wall-to-wall carpeting, but we pulled it up and put down hardwood instead. There is a leather sofa and loveseat. The tables are glass! FWIW, there are heavy drapes on the window at the far end of the room (opposite the speakers). I draw them when listening. There is an area rug and an upholstered chair, plus there are canvas pictures on the walls (as opposed to glass framed pictures). There are also some plants in the two far corners on either side of the window. But I've got two large wooden cases that hold my CD collection, so the CDs are also probably reflecting a lot of sound.

I am limited in what else I can put in the room to absorb sound and to reduce reflection points.

Thanks.

Wolf:

3. Calibration of your speakers so they are at the same level is essential so you do not have one speaker/s playing louder or softer then the others. In essence, you send test tones through each speaker at an individual level in conjunction with a measurement tool, a hand held SPL meter which most people purchase from Radio Shack. The test tone is either generated within the receiver/surround sound processor (SSP) or an AVIA disc and then calibrated and adjusted from your main listening area measuring the output of the DB each speaker.

You may want to do a search on AVS for further information.

Here is a link with some information:

http://www.techlore.com/article/10037/

4. Again, I am not familiar with your choice of discs to protect the wood floor. I use Cone Coasters for my monitors which are on stands with spikes. They work very well and provide the ability to slide the speaker if needed due to the teflon bottom. Due to owning monitors, I just take the monitor off the stand and then slide the stand/s when I need to move the speakers. The 800's are very large speakers and you will need help to place the discs under the spikes if you go that route. That is also one of the reasons I went to monitors as the floor standers can/could be cumbersome for placement.

I used this product and placed the Dali 400's on top of them when I owned them because I did not want to deal with the spike issue and the discs with the 400's. This product makes it easier to move the speaker if needed as it has a handle on the front of the riser so you can pull and slide the speaker on the Gramma riser. I am not sure if aesthetics would be an issue with this setup for you. They never really bothered me.

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolati...ion_gramma.asp

6. I don't think you've done anything wrong with the room because when you have an audio system in a room that is not dedicated, there can always be issues. If you've put area rugs down, items on the wall and filled the room with normal items, this is life. There are always trade offs unless the room is dedicated. You do what you can. You may want to pose in another thread your concerns. There is an area on AVS that deals with this issue.

I'd suggest setting your system up and see exactly what your impressions are of the output when everything is in place. If you are not happy, then take your wife/GF to a 5 star restaurant, buy her roses and convince her you need room treatments.

Other opinions should be solicited as there are some sharp guys on here with a lot of experience.

Charles

"Man plans, God laughs"
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post #558 of 3567 Old 01-15-2008, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jtdman View Post

What else is everyone using for speaker cables? Biwire or not?

I'm running a pair of old MIT MH750 from a Cinenova amp/AVM20v2

JTD...

I passive biamp my monitors. The speaker cables I am using are Cat Cables at the moment. However, I am going to revamp my room and probably will be either making my own cables using Home Depot wire or purchasing from Blue Jeans Cables. The current length I have restricts my ability to place my speakers exactly where I want them, so I need a longer length. There are many thoughts that are diverse in nature on cables and their effect. This is not the thread to address such a topic as it generally turns into a slug fest. !!

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post #559 of 3567 Old 01-15-2008, 07:53 AM
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Guess I'll try the Carol 12/3 wire in TechFlex and compare to my MIT.

PTAX100- Hangin from Gyrolock
Dali Helicon 400/C200/Earthquake CineNova ;>)
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post #560 of 3567 Old 01-15-2008, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
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Guess I'll try the Carol 12/3 wire in TechFlex and compare to my MIT.

If you go deeper in the past on this thread, I think one of the dealers for Dali recommended Siltech cables. Also I am sure you know Dali has their own line of cables and interconnects. I have 2 pair of the banana plugs that will use when I redo my wire.

http://www.siltechcables.com/wawcs0114978/ln-home.html

http://www.dali.dk/us/page245.aspx?sub=214&grp=106

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post #561 of 3567 Old 01-15-2008, 10:03 AM
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I bi-wire both my 400's and my C200. I use the Nordost Blue Heaven Bi-Wire cable and I am very happy with it. You could also look at the Nordost Super Flatline MKii as it is available as bi-wire as well and costs less.
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post #562 of 3567 Old 01-15-2008, 04:59 PM
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Heres some pictures of the new DALI Mentor 8 - the biggest speaker in the Mentor line. It has a 6.5" mid, and 2 - 8" woofers. This thing plays loud and clean. Very good audiophile home theater speaker.





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post #563 of 3567 Old 01-15-2008, 05:03 PM
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What is the MSRP on those? They look real nice.
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post #564 of 3567 Old 01-15-2008, 07:09 PM
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matt -

How far into the room (see my previous post here) do you have those? based on my room size, I am back looking at the 300 MkIIs and the Mentor 6s, so curious to see how much space I have to play with.

Cheers,
Dan

Go Far, Stay Long, See Deep
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post #565 of 3567 Old 01-17-2008, 11:59 AM
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I have a question about the Dali Ikon On-Walls. I'm looking at getting the Ikon 6's up front, Vokal 2 center, and Ikon 1's for the surrounds in a 5.1 setup. Dealer wants me to get On-Walls instead of Ikon 1's, but, going from size specs, the On-Walls don't meet WAF. I cutout a cardboard replica and they did seem pretty large. Anybody have a picture of them that could let me see how "big" they actually are? Is there any reason to use them instead of the Ikon 1's? Any thoughts appreciated-I really want to join the Dali "family" as these speakers blew away some B&W 68?'s and RBH TK Towers.
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post #566 of 3567 Old 01-17-2008, 12:44 PM
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For the ultimate WAF fact I would do the Ikon phantom in-walls.

http://www.dali.dk/us/page245.aspx?sub=266&prod=581

The on-walls, although they are a wider speaker, have 3 inches less depth and will therefor stick out less into the room. I would prefer that choice but everybody is different. Any of the choices will work great for you.
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post #567 of 3567 Old 01-17-2008, 01:16 PM
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I did suggest the in-wall's to the wife and she doesn't want big holes in her wall

I was wondering if anyone had pictures of the on-walls in their listening area (I've been to the website and have the brochure the dealer gave me)that I could view that gave a good view of their size relative to other things in the room (as the cardboard cutouts I made to the listed dimensions seemed quite large) and if there were any really compelling reason that they were "better" than the Ikon 1's?

Thanks!
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post #568 of 3567 Old 01-17-2008, 02:07 PM
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Of course she realizes that there will not be "big holes" in the walls once the speakers are mounted, correct? With many in-walls you can pain the grills to match the surrounding wall color. The speaker just fades into the wall.
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post #569 of 3567 Old 01-17-2008, 02:27 PM
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correct, but I made the mistake of telling her that I would make the upstairs a 3.1 or 2.1 system someday, so she assumes that means that even with inwalls, I would be removing them. Inwall isn't an option and the other questions haven't been answered yet that I am curious about.
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post #570 of 3567 Old 01-17-2008, 09:35 PM
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I purchased the Helicon 400 MK2 (he had the MK1 and the MK2 are much better) for my son and we have decided after a couple months that his room can handle the Helicon 800 MK2 so those were ordered today. Once received I will post pics and get a review up.

On a side note I am thinking of upgrading my MS5s to Megalines. I will also post a review and pictures if I decide to take the giant leap to Megalines.

What do you guys think about the jump from 400 to 800 MK2s in a fairly large room????

Thanks!
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