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post #721 of 3636 Old 03-24-2008, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by luser41 View Post

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone had recently compared the Dali 400Mk2 to the Focal 1027Be. Right now I'm using a Krell KAV-2250 for the two front channels. That may switch to an Earthquate Cinenova or there's an outside chance at a Simaudio Titan. Probably 70/30 movies to music. This will be without a sub. I'm in an apartment and can be satisfied with decent bass from good floorstanders instead of worrying about bothering the neighbors.

I don't have a Focal dealer close that I can find but do for Dali. I have no shot at auditioning them close together. I do love the sweet highs from the 1027Be but the Dali does seem to have an openness to it that I like as well.

Any advice is appreciated...

Thanks

These are very, very different speakers. The focals might have a little more precision/detail than the Helicons but they will not have the warmth, soundstage, or highs that the Helicons have. The Focals use a Berrylium tweeter and the Dali use their ribbon/dome hybrid. These speakers are on pretty opposite ends of the spectrum from one another. You would really near to hear each for yourself before making that decision.

I am a Helicon owner and while I have listened to and respect the 1037's, I do not connect with them emotionally.
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post #722 of 3636 Old 03-24-2008, 01:12 PM
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I feel the same way, they're very different. I have heard both but not within even days of each other so it's hard for me to get that "gut feeling" since I find some things appealing about both. I'm using Thiel 2.3s right now if that's any indication of my tastes. They're very difficult for me to place properly and not very forgiving of my typical living environment. It's not a good idea to make too many lasting changes to an apartment
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post #723 of 3636 Old 03-25-2008, 03:44 PM
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I'm not a Dali owner, though I have always been a fan of the Helicon series. This may be old news, as I don't follow this thread, but I stumbled across these:

25th Anniversary Limited Edition of HELICON 400 MK2


http://hifi-ring.com/speaker/

Just found it interesting that Dali had finally decided to offer the Helicon's in black.
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post #724 of 3636 Old 03-26-2008, 10:12 AM
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Hi,

does anyone of you guys know about any good dali dealer that can ship speakers itnernational? Or just any good dealer that I can email and ask.

I'm intrested in Helicon 400/800 mk2.

Thanks,
David
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post #725 of 3636 Old 03-26-2008, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luser41 View Post

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone had recently compared the Dali 400Mk2 to the Focal 1027Be. Right now I'm using a Krell KAV-2250 for the two front channels. That may switch to an Earthquate Cinenova or there's an outside chance at a Simaudio Titan. Probably 70/30 movies to music. This will be without a sub. I'm in an apartment and can be satisfied with decent bass from good floorstanders instead of worrying about bothering the neighbors.

I don't have a Focal dealer close that I can find but do for Dali. I have no shot at auditioning them close together. I do love the sweet highs from the 1027Be but the Dali does seem to have an openness to it that I like as well.

Any advice is appreciated...

Thanks

Im fortunate to carry both Focal and Dali so I hear these side by side on a regular basis. They are 2 different kinds of speakers and 2 totally different schools of thought on speaker design. If you want detail and transparency, Focal Electra 1027s should be top of the list. Their driver technology is unparalleled.

The Dali Helicon 400mkII is more of a music lovers speaker. By that I mean it has a little added warmth. The biggest trick with the Dalis is the placement issue. Because they are rear-ported they require placement away from the wall to avoid excess bass reinforcement. The Focals are bottom-ported so they are constantly loaded to the floor thus making placement very simple.

In terms of driveability, Dali is very amplifier friendly, whereas Focal requires better amplification to sound their best. Your Krell KAV2250 is very high current and will drive either of those speakers with ease. The Simaudio Titan is the best multi-channel amplifier on the planet IMO if you want to go that route.
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post #726 of 3636 Old 03-26-2008, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I'm not a Dali owner, though I have always been a fan of the Helicon series. This may be old news, as I don't follow this thread, but I stumbled across these:

Just found it interesting that Dali had finally decided to offer the Helicon's in black.

IMO they shouldve been offering Dali Helicons is piano gloss black all along. I think this special finish is only for the special edition though.

It doesnt come cheap though for the 25th anniversary speaker. It will be interesting to see how it does.
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post #727 of 3636 Old 03-26-2008, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

The Simaudio Titan is the best multi-channel amplifier on the planet IMO if you want to go that route.


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post #728 of 3636 Old 03-26-2008, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

Im fortunate to carry both Focal and Dali so I hear these side by side on a regular basis. They are 2 different kinds of speakers and 2 totally different schools of thought on speaker design. If you want detail and transparency, Focal Electra 1027s should be top of the list. Their driver technology is unparalleled.

The Dali Helicon 400mkII is more of a music lovers speaker. By that I mean it has a little added warmth. The biggest trick with the Dalis is the placement issue. Because they are rear-ported they require placement away from the wall to avoid excess bass reinforcement. The Focals are bottom-ported so they are constantly loaded to the floor thus making placement very simple.

In terms of driveability, Dali is very amplifier friendly, whereas Focal requires better amplification to sound their best. Your Krell KAV2250 is very high current and will drive either of those speakers with ease. The Simaudio Titan is the best multi-channel amplifier on the planet IMO if you want to go that route.

Thanks very much for this summary. There's a lot to like about each. The important point in your response for me was the placement considerations. I am always in a smallish apartment so placement can sometimes be difficult.
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post #729 of 3636 Old 03-27-2008, 07:25 AM
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Luser,

If you are considering the Dali Helicon, you MAY want to look at the 300 series. They are easy to move and although not as strong on the low end as the 400 would be, for a small place I think they would be adequate. I have them in a fairly small room and they work very well. I would suggest the MKII series as placement although important, in my experience the II series is not quite as fussy as the classic Helicon series.

Space wise a floor stander and the 300 on stands takes up about the same amount of floor space. They are also a breeze to move around if needed. If you have kids tack them to the stands. There are trade offs with floor standers and monitors, but don't underestimate what a monitor can do in a small or mid size space. I've been through that scenario many times.

From a cost perspective stands and the monitors would probably be less costly then the 400's would be. If you consider this path, don't buy cheap speaker stands. I have Sound Anchors and although costly, they are worth the price of admission. Speaker stands do make a difference with monitors IMHO. Dali even makes their own stand for the 300 series, but they are more costly then the Sound Anchors, but are sexy looking and match your finish.

I know a few guys on here with small spaces use the JL113 also and for a small apartment in NY, it would be ideal. Small footprint, lots of quality bass and can always be eliminated from the chain when needed.

Just my .05.

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post #730 of 3636 Old 03-27-2008, 09:38 AM
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Hi guys,
I have been upgrading my home theatre system gradually over the past five years beginning with a HTIB and now to 6.1 system with decent equipment. I have now decided to upgrade my speakers before I move into separates. I am seriously looking into the Helicon 400 MK2's as my fronts and then gradually add the center and the surrounds. My question is will the 400 MK2's be a significant upgrade from my polk Lsi 15's?
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/s...tanding/lsi15/

If the improvement is very small what should I get to hear a noticeable difference? I guess the bottom line is I don't want to just spend money for minimal improvement.

Thanks guys.



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post #731 of 3636 Old 03-27-2008, 10:15 AM
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David, I have been an owner of Polk's myself and i feel there is a huge gap between the sound quality of Dali's and Polk's. They really are in a different league all together. Polks are good in HT environment and while Dali's are very good in HT as well, they really shine in music reproduction.

But the best bet would be your own ears. I would suggest finding out the nearest dealer and giving the Dali's a listen with your favourite CD.

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post #732 of 3636 Old 03-27-2008, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daman S View Post

David, I have been an owner of Polk's myself and i feel there is a huge gap between the sound quality of Dali's and Polk's. They really are in a different league all together. Polks are good in HT environment and while Dali's are very good in HT as well, they really shine in music reproduction.

But the best bet would be your own ears. I would suggest finding out the nearest dealer and giving the Dali's a listen with your favourite CD.

Thanks for your input. I just didn't want to make a lateral move especially at that price difference. Any other opinions would also be helpful such as owners opinions on the Polk's ring radiator(which is also in many highend speakers) and the Dali's ribbon tweeter/dome combo as well as the quality of the woofers, crossovers etc.

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post #733 of 3636 Old 03-31-2008, 02:18 PM
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Hello Dali fans and dealers,
Im a Dynaudio (focus) owner but am planning on a possible move to Dali later this year... I am now in the process of getting a new piece of furniture for the new LCD panel and would like to insure I get something that will fit the Helicon center channel...

I know the hight of the speaker is 8.3" tall... And know it needs a stand due to its curved cabinet. So what is the exact hight with the stand that lets it tilt up and down? I will need this stand and need to know exact hight due to the furniture in question...

I hope someone on here is using this with the stand and can let me know.

Thanks so much

Jason
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post #734 of 3636 Old 03-31-2008, 02:27 PM
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Is there any good pictures of the difference between cherry and rosenut finish on the Helicon mk2 speakers? I can't see the rosenut at my dealer so I'm looking for some good pictures of them.

Do you think the two first pictures here is of the rosenut?

Thanks!
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post #735 of 3636 Old 03-31-2008, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuj View Post

Is there any good pictures of the difference between cherry and rosenut finish on the Helicon mk2 speakers? I can't see the rosenut at my dealer so I'm looking for some good pictures of them.

Do you think the two first pictures here is of the rosenut?

Thanks!

Take a look at my gallery(link in my signature) for pictures of rosenut finish. You can click on the pictures to enlarge them. In the link you posted- the first pictures are of cherry i believe. Look at the bottom of the page- it tells you which finish is cherry and which is rosenit.

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post #736 of 3636 Old 03-31-2008, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daman S View Post

Take a look at my gallery(link in my signature) for pictures of rosenut finish. You can click on the pictures to enlarge them. In the link you posted- the first pictures are of cherry i believe. Look at the bottom of the page- it tells you which finish is cherry and which is rosenit.

Cool, thanks!
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post #737 of 3636 Old 04-01-2008, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jriggy View Post

Hello Dali fans and dealers,
Im a Dynaudio (focus) owner but am planning on a possible move to Dali later this year... I am now in the process of getting a new piece of furniture for the new LCD panel and would like to insure I get something that will fit the Helicon center channel...

I know the hight of the speaker is 8.3" tall... And know it needs a stand due to its curved cabinet. So what is the exact hight with the stand that lets it tilt up and down? I will need this stand and need to know exact hight due to the furniture in question...

I hope someone on here is using this with the stand and can let me know.

Thanks so much

Jason

FWIW,

I have the Helicon C200 center channel speaker. I did not know the bottom was rounded until it was delivered. If you place it on a flat surface, it's balanced such that it will sit in a level, fairly stable position.

In my case, the C200 sits on a flat shelf above my TV, so I wanted to aim it downward. I did that by getting two rubber, wedge shaped door stops, rolling the speaker forward so it faces downward a bit, and then wedging the door stops underneath the back of the speaker, and that kept it from returning to a level position. I am hoping the fact they are rubber means they will not mar the finish. My dealer says he has done somehting similar wedging towels underneath the back of the speaker.

Bruce
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post #738 of 3636 Old 04-01-2008, 11:08 AM
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OK,
I think i have it narrowed down to the Helicon 400 Mk2 or the older Helicon 800. They seem to be going for about the same price as well as having a similar footprint. I was thinking about the Mentor 8 but I really like the look of the helicons. Does anyone have any listening experiences between the two and liked one over the other? I realise this question has been asked before but I was hoping to get an answer in regards to whether the improvements in the MK2 series is noticeable enough so that the 400 MK2 sounds better in the highs and mids compared to the older 800's. I already have a subwoofer so the lows are not as important.
At this point in my life I will use it for home theatre and music about 50/50 percent of the time.

Thanks!

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post #739 of 3636 Old 04-01-2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidimdpt View Post

OK,
I think i have it narrowed down to the Helicon 400 Mk2 or the older Helicon 800. They seem to be going for about the same price as well as having a similar footprint. I was thinking about the Mentor 8 but I really like the look of the helicons. Does anyone have any listening experiences between the two and liked one over the other? At this point in my life I will use it for home theatre and music about 50/50 percent of the time.

Thanks!

Some of this depends on your room. I would suggest the 400 MKII with a sub for your home theater. I have the 400's and they put out plenty of bass themselves for a 2 channel setup. The 800 really need a lot of breathing room to achieve the correct sound from them.
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post #740 of 3636 Old 04-01-2008, 12:03 PM
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Here is some additional information.
My room is about 20'x20' with cathedral ceilings and my listening position is 15 feet from the speakers.

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post #741 of 3636 Old 04-01-2008, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidimdpt View Post

Here is some additional information.
My room is about 20'x20' with cathedral ceilings and my listening position is 15 feet from the speakers.

How far will the speakers be from the back wall and side walls?
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post #742 of 3636 Old 04-01-2008, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

How far will the speakers be from the back wall and side walls?

They will be about 12 inches from the back wall and 3 feet from the side walls.

Thanks.

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post #743 of 3636 Old 04-01-2008, 04:08 PM
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I went with the 800s (MKI) over the 400s (MK1 or MKII). I never seriously considered the MKIIs as I prefer the look of the MKI series (and the price). I did not have the opportunity to hear side by side but after multiple conversations on the two versions I decided it was not worth it (there are varying opinions on what/why in the MKI vs. MKII).

I would love to comment on placement as my room has basically the same dimensions...but they won't be here until Thursday...the wait is killing me.
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post #744 of 3636 Old 04-02-2008, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidimdpt View Post

They will be about 12 inches from the back wall and 3 feet from the side walls.

Thanks.

When I first setup my 400's I had them 12" from the back wall. I have since been able to strech that another 3" to get them 15" from the back wall, and I can tell you it made an audible difference. There is better clarity top to bottom and the imaging is improved as well. I cannot go any further so I cannot tell you if 18" would again be an improvement, but as good as they sound right now I would not think so.
I believe due to the additional bass that the 800's require even more room from the back wall than the 400's. So, for your room I would suggest the 400 MKII's.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twodown View Post

I went with the 800s (MKI) over the 400s (MK1 or MKII). I never seriously considered the MKIIs as I prefer the look of the MKI series (and the price). I did not have the opportunity to hear side by side but after multiple conversations on the two versions I decided it was not worth it (there are varying opinions on what/why in the MKI vs. MKII).

I would love to comment on placement as my room has basically the same dimensions...but they won't be here until Thursday...the wait is killing me.

Please let me know what you think when you get them in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

When I first setup my 400's I had them 12" from the back wall. I have since been able to strech that another 3" to get them 15" from the back wall, and I can tell you it made an audible difference. There is better clarity top to bottom and the imaging is improved as well. I cannot go any further so I cannot tell you if 18" would again be an improvement, but as good as they sound right now I would not think so.
I believe due to the additional bass that the 800's require even more room from the back wall than the 400's. So, for your room I would suggest the 400 MKII's.

Hi rydenfan,
have you been able to compare the 800 vs the 400 MK2 directly? I think i may be able to pull the speakers out to 15 inches from the wall if i had to. I was hoping that someone could tell me if the advances in the MK2 was enough to compensate for the separate midrange and larger woofer in the older 800 as well as if the newer MK2 had better highs than the 800

Thanks again

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post #746 of 3636 Old 04-02-2008, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidimdpt View Post

Hi rydenfan,
have you been able to compare the 800 vs the 400 MK2 directly? I think i may be able to pull the speakers out to 15 inches from the wall if i had to. I was hoping that someone could tell me if the advances in the MK2 was enough to compensate for the separate midrange and larger woofer in the older 800 as well as if the newer MK2 had better highs than the 800

Thanks again

I have never heard the MKII. Mozvz has, and perhaps he can chime in here? Most of this really comes down to you listening to each speaker and seeing what you prefer. Advice is a wonderful starting tool, but it is just that. In the end the decision must come down to you and your ears.
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post #747 of 3636 Old 04-02-2008, 12:58 PM
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I currently have my new Ikon 6's in the suggested equilateral triangle setup. Unfortunately, the tip of the triangle is about a foot and a half forward of the listening position.

The obvious answer is to move the speakers further apart, but I've found that it isn't helping. The issue lies in the room, which forces me to have one speaker in the corner (I left about a foot and a half between the speaker and the wall), and the other speaker out in the open (damned L shaped rooms). When I push the speaker in the open further to the side, it does push the sweet spot back but it also puts it way off to the side of the couch.

Other than moving my couch forward (which I considered, but it just isn't doable), is there anything else that might help?
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post #748 of 3636 Old 04-02-2008, 01:02 PM
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Dali's, are really meant to fire in parallel and not be toed-in, this differs from other speaker companies. Perhaps you could include a drawing of the room? Or a picture and some dimensions to understand this better.
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post #749 of 3636 Old 04-02-2008, 01:09 PM
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Decrease your toe-in. In my brief experience with dali speakers, little to no toe-in gave the best stereo imaging.
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post #750 of 3636 Old 04-02-2008, 01:26 PM
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I'll post a diagram in a few hours when I have a chance to measure everything. Right now I have no toe-in.
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