Whatever happened to DCM's Steve Eberbach? - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1666 Old 06-30-2010, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamespblues View Post

Nice but it looks like they used a Bose design Cabinet and port just a lot bigger cabinet! Penny Hole does not know much about building she was telling me that the Wires on the TFv's are soldered too the crossover which where NOT and she did not know the difference between a Fuse and a circuit breaker lol and no joke! Penny is just there phone girl and looks up DCM parts. She is nice those. Nick is a good guy and helps out a lot! To be honest you would have saved yourself some work because the TF-v goes down too 35Hz and you made your 37Hz! I guess you really wanted that TV! lol But I would say it is a upgrade from the Surround scape center which only goes Down too 50Hz. Nice Job Great system and love too see TFv people still out there!

Bose cabinet
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post #542 of 1666 Old 06-30-2010, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny20 View Post

Quite awhile ago I decided to design a center speaker that would perform very well and match my TF's. I completed the project 2 months ago, and thought I'd share the story.

I have TFv8.0 fronts (bought new in 1997), TFv6.0 rears (bought off Ebay for $100 ... mint!), and a HSU Research sub. My design goal was to build a center speaker that could support the weight of my 55" TV and essentially be a CX-27 with an additional woofer & horizontally aligned. I learned as much as possible about speaker building, and had help from Penny Hole & Nick Leiendecker @ DCM (MTX), as well as my brother who's a carpenter. Penny told me that the 6" & 6 1/2" DCM shielded drivers are actually the same, and are used in many TF models, including mine. Nick helped by supplying the new inductor for the woofers, as I used a CX-27 crossover I bought on Ebay, along with the drivers from my Surround Scape center & 2 bass drivers from CX-07's. I used 3/4" MDF, and the exterior dimensions of the cabinet are 38" x 21.75" x 8". I decided to build a sub enclosure for the mid/tweeter drivers to keep the interior volume for the woofers from being too large. I attempted to tune the box to 37Hz with 2 rear ports, but I don't have equipment to measure the performance of the speaker. I can tell you that the bass is awesome, the sound blends great with the fronts, dialogue is natural sounding and clear, and it doesn't do too bad off-axis either. My listening room is 19' x 11', so off-axis seating isn't really a problem anyway. 5.1 surround SACD's are absolutely incredible, and Blu-Ray via my Oppo is jaw-dropping!

Enjoy the pictures, and good luck to everyone buiding custom DCM speaker projects!

Why did they dampen the cabinet so much? Why didn't they just use a little Stuff Polyfill behide the drivers and put it in loosely and not so packed. I believe it would have sounded better with less damping and looser packing of it! Look in the TFv line the Damping is not that Heavy.

Do you have spec on the TFv8.0's?

Your system is cool those!
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post #543 of 1666 Old 06-30-2010, 08:52 PM
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James, ura spaz!!!
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post #544 of 1666 Old 07-01-2010, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DCMlover View Post

James, ura spaz!!!

lol I should change my name on here too Spaz

I know I am a little crazy about stuff I mean nothing by it


DCM ROCKS!!!
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post #545 of 1666 Old 07-01-2010, 04:27 PM
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I know you mean nothing by it. Don't change the fact that ura spaz though!!! lol
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post #546 of 1666 Old 07-01-2010, 06:59 PM
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James,

You are a spaz. I'm disappointed that you compare my center channel speaker to a Bose 901. They're different like night and day. My design is influenced by CX-17 & 27, an Audax center channel DIY project, and a large Paradigm center speaker that has similar dimensions to my creation. The damping was modeled after the Audax project, and the extra stuffing was placed at areas that I tested to provide the best sound. I'm proud of my design, and wanted to share with everyone one possible way to make a great DCM-like speaker. My cabinet dimensions were dictated somewhat by the size of the base of my TV, so obviously there's room to play with the dimensions.

For information about other great DCM speaker projects, view this entire thread. If I'm not mistaken, some very knowledgeable people have mentioned that you might not get the results you expect with a TW or TF for a center speaker. Many people use a CX-17 as a center speaker, and center channel projects based upon this speaker design seem to work well. I'd definitely be interested in seeing other designs too!

By the way, Penny supplied me with the driver parameters that allowed me to properly use the speaker design software. It's a 6KB1448, and it's shown as either 6" or 6.5", depending upon the speaker model. Same size. Same exact speaker. All will fit well into the opening in the SS center speaker, and a CX-17 (or equivalent) also has the proper tweeter mounted on a metal lens. I don't know of a KX that had that ...

Good luck with your project!
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post #547 of 1666 Old 07-01-2010, 09:32 PM
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Johnny,

I don't think he meant anything by the bose thing... His humor is tough to detect in typing. I think it is the plastic flared port! But it is a nice looking center. I might try to do one!!

He has sent me a bazillion PM's and Emails lately, all helping me to set up my system. He is a super helpful SPAZ!

I would love to build me some custom stuff, and buy some more TFv's!

Anyone want to sell me some??
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post #548 of 1666 Old 07-02-2010, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny20 View Post

James,

You are a spaz. I'm disappointed that you compare my center channel speaker to a Bose 901. They're different like night and day. My design is influenced by CX-17 & 27, an Audax center channel DIY project, and a large Paradigm center speaker that has similar dimensions to my creation. The damping was modeled after the Audax project, and the extra stuffing was placed at areas that I tested to provide the best sound. I'm proud of my design, and wanted to share with everyone one possible way to make a great DCM-like speaker. My cabinet dimensions were dictated somewhat by the size of the base of my TV, so obviously there's room to play with the dimensions.

For information about other great DCM speaker projects, view this entire thread. If I'm not mistaken, some very knowledgeable people have mentioned that you might not get the results you expect with a TW or TF for a center speaker. Many people use a CX-17 as a center speaker, and center channel projects based upon this speaker design seem to work well. I'd definitely be interested in seeing other designs too!

By the way, Penny supplied me with the driver parameters that allowed me to properly use the speaker design software. It's a 6KB1448, and it's shown as either 6" or 6.5", depending upon the speaker model. Same size. Same exact speaker. All will fit well into the opening in the SS center speaker, and a CX-17 (or equivalent) also has the proper tweeter mounted on a metal lens. I don't know of a KX that had that ...

Good luck with your project!

I was not knocking your project just had same question about it I never seen so much damping in a cabinet before and just wanted to know why?I did not mean it in a bad way. I did not mean your center sounded like Bose it just has the sames separation as the Bose cabinets do but they do it with plastic lol. Plus Bose copy's everyone's designs like the Transmission line thing. For KX I know they have no lens but there mid is the same speaker as the TFv-line 6" so you can use that. Also the KX is the same 10" for my 10.0's that can be used! That is what DCM sell's you for a replacement speaker for the TFv-line. The 6" is $33.00 each from DCM and the 10" is $53.00 each . I don't no how a 6" is the same as a 6 1/2 mid/woofer please give info on that in detail? Plus tone sounds different. I would use a CX-17 for center but it is to small for a big room and under powered plus is a 2way I am looking for a 3way. The CX-17 peak at 100 watts and the TFv6.0 play easy 150watts. That is way I picked the TFv6.0 for center. The CX-17's are also NOT Time equal crossovers like the TFv-line. The new DCM people don't really know much about the old company's design Hell they recommend a Audax tweeter for a replacement which does not even fit right in the lens and they sound bad! I like your System the TFv's are great you have and the center looks great! Enjoy your system and thanks for sharing your pic with use!
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post #549 of 1666 Old 07-03-2010, 08:39 AM
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Does anyone know what type of screws did DCM use on the Time Frame Cabinet's too put them together with? Need type of Screw's and size. If you don't know do you have pics of them that you can show?
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post #550 of 1666 Old 07-03-2010, 07:12 PM
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I got the TFv6.0's Today!!!!! They look great! They need very like work the guy said mint but they are like a 9/10 not 10/10. I have too spray glue the gloss black top back on one no big deal and I think Fedex did this too one of them. The left side of one of the cabinets has a rub mark on the grill cloth so in time I will replace the grill cloth. My battery just died on my camera who I will post more pics tomorrow. But I did get crossover and inside Cabinet pics. Check it out.
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post #551 of 1666 Old 07-03-2010, 07:13 PM
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More pics
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post #552 of 1666 Old 07-05-2010, 10:43 AM
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I took more pics but the battery was die on the camera when I did the waxes repair on the tops and removed the black tape the guy had on them too hide the cracked tops. The top covers that are gloss back were all Cloudy looking like they where in the sun all day and the gloss black cover on the one was cracked in the corner and the glue dried up on it and the cover got smaller because of the sun so I waxed the tops which the shine is know back in them and I removed the Black tape he had on the one with the crack and loose top. I painted all the edges gloss black so you can't see the raw wood anymore and it blended in with the gloss black caps. Glued the gloss black top covers on and closed up the cracks in the corners with the spray glue. It is know very hard too see the cracks and the only one you can see is the one on the front left corner but you have too be a cm too ever see it. I will redo them again in time but for now it works well. I checked all the drives they are in great shape. One I have too change the grill cloth when I have time because Fedex hit the one side of the speaker and cut the cloth a little. I just used a black marker too hide the raw wood from showing. The pic of the cloth cut looks bad then what it really is in person. Now I look that them they will make a great center because the tweeter and mid are on top not like my 10.0's where they are on the bottom and the 10" woofer is on top so the main speakers (10.0) will line up perfect with the 6.0's tweeters and mid. The only thing is I have too rise my tv up off the floor a 11in too go over the 6.0's but no big deal. The 52" will be replace with a 82" TV anyway so the high adjustment will me fine. I am hoping too order the gold post and spikes for the 6.0's this week and install them soon.
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post #553 of 1666 Old 07-05-2010, 10:44 AM
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more pics
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post #554 of 1666 Old 07-05-2010, 10:46 AM
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more 6.0 pics
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post #555 of 1666 Old 07-05-2010, 10:55 AM
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This is not the room my equipment will be in. When my wife goes in the army and is finish with basic then we will move and I will setup the audio/video room for the DCM's but will not be for about 3 to 6 month's. That is why I am working on the center now so it is ready for the new room! My Equipment is packed so I a not able too listen too the 6.0's or anything at this time.
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post #556 of 1666 Old 07-05-2010, 07:41 PM
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Nice lookin speakers. wanna sell em? That is what I need to do with my 10.0's!! Very sharp!
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post #557 of 1666 Old 07-10-2010, 03:28 PM
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I found this MF-1/4 Foam Speaker Grille Cover precut for the Time Windows

So if you are looking too recover your Time Windows here you go!

http://w.mawebcenters.com/midwestspe...lle-cover.html


Good Luck
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post #558 of 1666 Old 08-11-2010, 06:13 AM
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I'm not sure if this is a good place to post this, but I figured I would give it a try. I've been a DCM fan for years. I currently own a pair of Timewindow 1a's and a recently purchased pair of Timeframe 400 series II's.

The Timeframe 400's sonically sound great, but need help cosmetically. One speaker needs a new sock and the tops/bottoms repainted. No big issue with that one. The second speaker needs more help. The padded material that is glued to the speaker is in pretty rough shape along the front right/left edges. I believe it will be very noticable if I try to sock over the top of it, so I think this padding should be replaced.

#1 Anyone know of a good replacement material? (same thickness/density)

#2 What is the best way to remove this from the wood pard of the speaker?

#3 What adhesive would work well in attaching the new padding?

Thanks for any assistance!
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post #559 of 1666 Old 08-11-2010, 07:36 AM
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#1 Anyone know of a good replacement material? (same thickness/density)

There is. JamesPblues has done extensive research and pretty much knows every part for most DCM speakers, perhaps he can post it. If you have questions, he has answers. I will look in my emails from him, I know he sent the foam to me.

#2 What is the best way to remove this from the wood pard of the speaker? This is easy. The tops are held on by Mod-EZ Dowels. Some say to tap with a block and wood mallet, I just pulled mine off. I did this on both pairs of TF-400's I have. Then again, I don't know if Most guys can do this. As my wife says, I am a big galoot and a master carpenter. So I tend to have a strong grip. They just tap back on. For the bottoms, you just remove 2 phillips screws. Mine were just 2" drywall screws.

#3 What adhesive would work well in attaching the new padding? They used a 3M spray adhesive. Should be able to find it at an auto parts store.

Thanks for any assistance! You are welcome!
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post #560 of 1666 Old 08-11-2010, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCMlover View Post

#1 Anyone know of a good replacement material? (same thickness/density)

There is. JamesPblues has done extensive research and pretty much knows every part for most DCM speakers, perhaps he can post it. If you have questions, he has answers. I will look in my emails from him, I know he sent the foam to me.

#2 What is the best way to remove this from the wood pard of the speaker? This is easy. The tops are held on by Mod-EZ Dowels. Some say to tap with a block and wood mallet, I just pulled mine off. I did this on both pairs of TF-400's I have. Then again, I don't know if Most guys can do this. As my wife says, I am a big galoot and a master carpenter. So I tend to have a strong grip. They just tap back on. For the bottoms, you just remove 2 phillips screws. Mine were just 2" drywall screws.

#3 What adhesive would work well in attaching the new padding? They used a 3M spray adhesive. Should be able to find it at an auto parts store.

Thanks for any assistance! You are welcome!

Thanks for the reply and checking on that for me.

I should have clarified my second question. I can get the caps off, but I'm wondering about removing that foam from the actual speaker. I think its glued down? Maybe a simple scraper, time, and elbow grease?

This stuff looks like it has potential. I wonder how this stuff would be compared to the foam JamesPblues sent you.

http://www.closedcellfoams.com/volara.html

I wonder what the thickness should be? I'd guess 1/8" or 1/4" thick.
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post #561 of 1666 Old 08-11-2010, 03:16 PM
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That would probably work! I do know the foam is 1/8"
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post #562 of 1666 Old 08-12-2010, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DCMlover View Post

That would probably work! I do know the foam is 1/8"

The original material was automotive "headliner foam" if that helps.
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post #563 of 1666 Old 08-12-2010, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamie Hauser View Post

The original material was automotive "headliner foam" if that helps.

Thanks Jamie,

I wish I had read this first, but I got antsy and bought this last night.

http://www.closedcellfoams.com/neoprene.html

I purchased the 1/8" stuff. It was $19.00 for a 80" x 48" sheet which I figured was enough to do both speakers. I hope this stuff works ok.
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post #564 of 1666 Old 08-13-2010, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Olecranon View Post

Thanks Jamie,

I wish I had read this first, but I got antsy and bought this last night.

http://www.closedcellfoams.com/neoprene.html

I purchased the 1/8" stuff. It was $19.00 for a 80" x 48" sheet which I figured was enough to do both speakers. I hope this stuff works ok.

That is the wrong stuff man! It is open cell foam not close cell! You want 1/8 charcoal firm foam open cell! The only difference from the foam from this company that I will give you the link too is the color of the foam it is light gray not dark gray but the same stuff DCM used! The open cell is good for sound but the close cell you got will do noting for sound which is way DCM used open cell! You can use headliner foam like Jamie said for the TF400 but on the TFV that me and DCMlover have are 1/8 Charcoal firm foam open cell with speaker grill over the top of it then finished wrap around grill. I called the same place you got the close cell 1/8 foam they DO NOT have open cell 1/8! The only place I found you can get it from is Foam N' More and Upholstery. They are very very nice there and they will give you free samples too! Try too return the foam you got because it is the wrong one! It you are not going too do headliner foam then you need too buy the 1/8 Charcoal firm foam open cell and the cheap grill cloth from partsexpress.com in black http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=260-335 spray the cloth too the foam with the 3M foam and upholstery spray #74 and you can use that on the wood cabinet too to stick the foam too the wood! Good luck and if you need more help let me know!
http://www.foamforyou.com/charcoal_f...harcoal%20Firm
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post #565 of 1666 Old 08-13-2010, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olecranon View Post

Thanks Jamie,

I wish I had read this first, but I got antsy and bought this last night.

http://www.closedcellfoams.com/neoprene.html

I purchased the 1/8" stuff. It was $19.00 for a 80" x 48" sheet which I figured was enough to do both speakers. I hope this stuff works ok.

On the right in the pic is the 1/4 open cell foam which is the only one you can get in dark gray color. 1/8 open cell foam on the left side of the pic is the one you want for DCM speakers but it is light gray. The 1/8 foam comes has a roll.
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post #566 of 1666 Old 08-17-2010, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamespblues View Post

That is the wrong stuff man! It is open cell foam not close cell! You want 1/8 charcoal firm foam open cell! The only difference from the foam from this company that I will give you the link too is the color of the foam it is light gray not dark gray but the same stuff DCM used! The open cell is good for sound but the close cell you got will do noting for sound which is way DCM used open cell! You can use headliner foam like Jamie said for the TF400 but on the TFV that me and DCMlover have are 1/8 Charcoal firm foam open cell with speaker grill over the top of it then finished wrap around grill. I called the same place you got the close cell 1/8 foam they DO NOT have open cell 1/8! The only place I found you can get it from is Foam N' More and Upholstery. They are very very nice there and they will give you free samples too! Try too return the foam you got because it is the wrong one! It you are not going too do headliner foam then you need too buy the 1/8 Charcoal firm foam open cell and the cheap grill cloth from partsexpress.com in black http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=260-335 spray the cloth too the foam with the 3M foam and upholstery spray #74 and you can use that on the wood cabinet too to stick the foam too the wood! Good luck and if you need more help let me know!
http://www.foamforyou.com/charcoal_f...harcoal%20Firm

Keep in mind that DCM used different foam in different applications. In the original TimeWindows, the foam grills were used in lieu of cloth. The properties needed to be that the foam was acoustical transparent. The TimeWindows 1a and Three's (from personal experience and possible the TimeFrames from pictures) used what Steve mentioned auto headliner foam material. I believe that the cloth side was adhered (3M spray) to the cabinet, exposing the foam. It's purpose was more for keeping the grill cloth from rattling than sound dampening, if that was even a consideration. I can't speak on what the TFv6.0 or 10 used. You would know better than I would if you made the comparison. My opinion is that if the foam material does not cover the drivers, it doesn't make much difference. Here are some examples of headliner sources:

http://www.yourautotrim.com/auhedch.html
http://www.automotiveinteriors.com/h...r_material.htm
samples link http://www.automotiveinteriors.com/samples/request_$3.htm
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post #567 of 1666 Old 08-18-2010, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Hauser View Post

Keep in mind that DCM used different foam in different applications. In the original TimeWindows, the foam grills were used in lieu of cloth. The properties needed to be that the foam was acoustical transparent. The TimeWindows 1a and Three's (from personal experience and possible the TimeFrames from pictures) used what Steve mentioned auto headliner foam material. I believe that the cloth side was adhered (3M spray) to the cabinet, exposing the foam. It's purpose was more for keeping the grill cloth from rattling than sound dampening, if that was even a consideration. I can't speak on what the TFv6.0 or 10 used. You would know better than I would if you made the comparison. My opinion is that if the foam material does not cover the drivers, it doesn't make much difference. Here are some examples of headliner sources:

http://www.yourautotrim.com/auhedch.html
http://www.automotiveinteriors.com/h...r_material.htm
samples link http://www.automotiveinteriors.com/samples/request_$3.htm

The headliner foam is just 1/8 open cell foam with 100% Nylon Face fabric on it. DCM used pink 3M foam spray too stick the foam too the cabinet which I only think it is pink because it is the bulk version for company's that buy it like in a 55 gallon drum I am sure. The 3M 74 spray is the same stuff but in a small can which the color of it is orange! I think the only DCM speakers that are different foam is the Time windows but the TW7's us the same foam as the TF and TFv line. It helps the sound on the TF by damping the Tweeter and bass a little I think like room Acoustic padding. But you are right Jamie not much of a sound thing then a grill cloth holder. Here are pics of the over spray of the Pink 3M foam spray dcm used it is in the bottom left corner of the pic stuck too the inside of the cabinet of the TFv6.0 and the second pic show some of it on the cabinet between the foam and cabinet near the crossover cutout opening.
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post #568 of 1666 Old 08-18-2010, 04:49 PM
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The headliner foam is just 1/8 open cell foam with 100% Nylon Face fabric on it. DCM used pink 3M foam spray too stick the foam too the cabinet which I only think it is pink because it is the bulk version for company's that buy it like in a 55 gallon drum I am sure. The 3M 74 spray is the same stuff but in a small can which the color of it is orange! I think the only DCM speakers that are different foam is the Time windows but the TW7's us the same foam as the TF and TFv line. It helps the sound on the TF by damping the Tweeter and bass a little I think like room Acoustic padding. But you are right Jamie not much of a sound thing then a grill cloth holder. Here are pics of the over spray of the Pink 3M foam spray dcm used it is in the bottom left corner of the pic stuck too the inside of the cabinet of the TFv6.0 and the second pic show some of it on the cabinet between the foam and cabinet near the crossover cutout opening.

I've always used 3M 77 spray which is clear. Not to dispute your findings but my TW1a's, TW3's and TW7's all shown clear overspray on the adhesive. Companies change venders all the time. I believe the TimeFrames also used the headliner foam as shown in the first two photos showing TF350's that someone was refurbishing, the grill cloth socks were pulled down. The last picture is of my TW7 with the port tube removed showing the headliner foam also approximately 1/16 to 1/8 thick. Also, I was mistaken in my previous post, it was the foam side that was adhered to the cabinet.
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post #569 of 1666 Old 08-18-2010, 04:58 PM
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On the right in the pic is the 1/4 open cell foam which is the only one you can get in dark gray color. 1/8 open cell foam on the left side of the pic is the one you want for DCM speakers but it is light gray. The 1/8 foam comes has a roll.

The open cell 1/8" - 1/4" foam that you picture was used on the original TimeWindows where it covered the entire cabinet including the drivers as shown in these photos. It was tacked on by two strips in the back shown in the last two photos. Apparently it was used on your TFv6.0 also under the grill cloth. Does the foam cover the drivers also?
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post #570 of 1666 Old 08-19-2010, 12:36 AM
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The open cell 1/8" - 1/4" foam that you picture was used on the original TimeWindows where it covered the entire cabinet including the drivers as shown in these photos. It was tacked on by two strips in the back shown in the last two photos. Apparently it was used on your TFv6.0 also under the grill cloth. Does the foam cover the drivers also?

The foam is cut around the lens ,rear tweeters and woofers of the TFv6.0 and the same headliner foam on the TW7's is the same as the TFv-line. The pink glue is new on there and on my TFv10.0's it is not pink it is clear! I guess It is all 3M stuff just changed over the years. The only thing I am still having trouble finding is a grill cloth that matches the OEM cloth but I have everything but the cloth too build the 6.0. I have a wood shop near me that is going too build the 6.0 cabinet for $100.00 or less! He said it will take 2 too 3 days too build. I got the same hook up wire DCM used from partsexpress.com company name is NTE but you have too special order 20awg from them. I found the same push on terminals from Tyco Electronics http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...s/en?q=42068-1

http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...s/en?q=42710-2

The speaker port out of the TF600 I used for parts is the same as the TFv6.0 but needs too be cut down too 3" too match the 6.0. Solder I got at Radio shack which DCM recommend 60/40 rosin-core .050" Diameter radio shack part number 64-006 http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062712

I am going too paint the MDF caps of the 6.0 with Black number 019 Volvo paint that is used on the 2006 to 2010 S40 Volvo you can buy it in a spray can if you don't have a gun and they have clear too. Here is a link on ebay for the paint but you can go too your volvo dealer near you they will have it too! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OEM-N...Q5fAccessories


This paint does match the OEM caps of the TFv and TW7's pretty well. You will never get the same as the OEM caps because they are molded plastic. I also got the Mod-eez compression dowels that DCM used for the top cap. DCM used fabric Tape on the rear tweeters over the srcews for the TF-600 and TFv line and maybe more DCM models with rear tweeters. I would think it is for so the screws don't Damage the grill cloth when it is installed. I have that same Fabric tape when I worked for Volvo they used the same stuff too installed there Sat radio stuff on the rear window molding trim to hold the wires down so I have like a hundred rolls of the stuff! Volvo will give you a full roll of fabric tape and you only need a foot of it on each side of the window trim. lol So if you can't find the same tape at your basic stores for your DCM's then you can buy if from Volvo too! The last thing I found is the same crossover male board taps DCM used http://www.tycoelectronics.com/catal...s+%26+Tab+Caps
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