Whatever happened to DCM's Steve Eberbach? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 1667 Old 10-14-2006, 04:34 PM
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Here are some of the first shots of the TW3 make over.

The first picture is of the TimeWindow series for comparison. The 1a. the 3 and the 7.

Then stripping the old foam off.

New top and bottom plates made from 1-1/8 MDF that are screwed into place with a rubber seal.
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post #62 of 1667 Old 10-14-2006, 04:56 PM
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The bottom plate

The rebuilt crossover (4 new electrolytic caps and I replaced the 2 Mylar high pass caps with Solen polypropylene) on the new bottom plate showing the gasket.
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post #63 of 1667 Old 10-14-2006, 08:22 PM
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Here are some photos of dampening behind the drivers and there baskets.

Dampening the front baffle with 1/8" Armstrong floor tile (commercial grade dense vinyl) adhered with clear silicone. They also work very well to use to dampen the sheet metal lids of CD or DVD players.

Damping the complete cabinet with two layers of dense rubber foam
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post #64 of 1667 Old 10-14-2006, 08:42 PM
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Here are photos of the 6 stand that will be used to raise the TW3s to the same height of the TW7s.

The first one is of the pattern on top of a pieced together blank of 1-1/8 MDF to be traced. After tracing each blank they are rough cut to shape before routering. Once they are all cut I screwed the pattern to a blank and router it out its final shape. From there I glued and clamped a blank to top and bottom to sandwich the new piece. After it was set the center piece is the new pattern. Just router one side then flip it over for the other.

The second photo is the stand after two more blanks are added and is ready to route.

The last one is the bottom of the stand fitted with spikes. The extra set of holes are to bolt the stand to the bottom of the new base.
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post #65 of 1667 Old 10-14-2006, 09:01 PM
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Here's the last set of photos for now of the top, base and stand in primer before sealing. The treaded rod is just for support while painting.

The primer is a two-part PPG automotive paint. After sealing, all parts recieved two coats of black (PPG), then three coats of two-part clear (PPG). My brother did the applying of the paint; I did all the prep and wet sanding. That was done a week a go. I still have the other speaker to work on and wet sand the painted parts with 2000-grit paper then wheel out. I will also be making new socks to cover the cabinets since they are 2-1/2 taller and I have the OEM grill cloth used on the Sevens.

I'll post those photos later.
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post #66 of 1667 Old 10-14-2006, 09:20 PM
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Ah, I couldn't resist one last photo of the fit up before the grill cover and wet sanding and wheeling the paint.
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post #67 of 1667 Old 10-29-2006, 04:04 PM
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For those who are still interested here are some finished shots

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post #68 of 1667 Old 10-29-2006, 04:13 PM
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These last shots are some close ups. All and all I'm very pleased with the results.
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post #69 of 1667 Old 11-10-2006, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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WOW !!!!!!!
Jamie, maybe you missed your calling in life. You should have gone into speaker repair or cabinet making.

One of the few. DCM Time Window Seven owners.
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post #70 of 1667 Old 12-22-2006, 09:01 PM
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Hey Jamie, Outstanding work! I know how much time it takes to get a nice gloss finish. Anyway I am new to this forum, well I actually found out about this forum after doing a search for a set of TW-7's. What really got me intrigued to sign up is for the fact that you know Steve E. and I just wanted to say hi and see if he remembers Bob Waterstripe? I used to do some work for Bob way back when I was a young lad and Bob still worked for DCM. Thats how I remember Steve and I'm glad to hear that he's still around. It's a shame what happened to DCM as there are only a few company's left that where like DCM. I am living in the Brighton area and I would love to find a set of TW-3's but I am beginning to find out that it's gonna be a long search! Cheers
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post #71 of 1667 Old 12-23-2006, 10:00 AM
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ToofastGMJ
Thanks for the compliment. Steve has mentioned Bob Waterstripe along with Howard Kraus as the founding partners. Keep looking for the TimeWindow Three's because they still come up on Ebay. I would hold out for them over the originals or 1a's. There was recently two pair that just sold a few days ago. Expect to pay from $500 to $600 a pair plus shipping. The Sevens are rare, expect them to go between $1300 to $1500. Shipping will be expensive because they stand 48" tall and weigh in at 75-80lbs. Good luck in your search.
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post #72 of 1667 Old 12-23-2006, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToofastGMJ View Post

I would love to find a set of TW-3's but I am beginning to find out that it's gonna be a long search! Cheers

The Threes are pretty sweet on their own. I see them on EBay all the time.

One of the few. DCM Time Window Seven owners.
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post #73 of 1667 Old 12-23-2006, 08:41 PM
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Thanks for the reply guys! I see there is a set of TW's on E-bay right now but the listing doesn't state which model they are. Also I was wondering what kind of problems or sound degration they may have due to their age? The listing states 1979. Cheers All
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post #74 of 1667 Old 12-24-2006, 03:22 AM
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I am so very happy to have found this thread. I'm a DCM fanatic. I have pairs of TimeWindow 1, TimeWindow SurroundScape, powered TimeWindow SurroundScape, SurroundScape Center, TimeFrame TF-400, TimeFrame TF-600, TimeFrame 2000, CX Center, CX-27 (surprisingly good with deep floor-vibrating bass for movies) and KX-7 (surprisingly ordinary and what a harsh horned tweeter). I would love to get a hold of a pair of TimeWindow 3 or 7's. I really wanted to A/B these speakers but this is rather difficult as they play at different levels messing up any comparison as louder tends to sound better. I am not articulate enough nor trained enough to describe the different characteristics of the TimeWindows/SuroundScapes versus the TimeFrames. Can I really tell if there is high frequency diffraction off of the corners of the cabinet? Now DCM has the TFE 200 which I have not heard and cannot believe that they would wipe the floor with TimeWindows as the Sensible Sound reviewer said. How can a single set of drivers (TFE200) compare to the dual driver set of the TW's?

I would love to know the design theory behind the TimeWindow cabinet shape (minimal front surface) and the TimeFrame shape (large front surface); both to minimize diffraction??? I think that I like the TimeFrame 2000's with a pair of Hsu subs the best, but I am not convinced. The SurroundScapes, driven as a stereo pair (no time shifting between the inner and outer drivers?) seem to have a wider sweet spot versus the TimeFrames. So hard to decide so I'll be keeping them all. It was easier to A/B the CX-27 with the KX-7 as the CX blows away the KX.

Can anyone tell me the difference between the TW1 and TW1a specification-wise and/or cosmetic? My TW shipping box just says Time Windows without any model number; originally purchased by me in 1983. My TW's have the two plastic strips in the back holding the foam in place forming a gap between the strips where you can see the paperboard cylinder back. I think I remember that TW1a's as having the foam meet in the back. Maybe the TW back is made from a paper cylinder concrete form?

As others wanted a sonic match as a center for the TW7, maybe choosing the CX-17, how about the SurroundScape Center? It has a 6in woofer and ¾ hard dome tweeter acoustic lens (the CX-17 and 27 having a 6.5in woofer), 92 db, 50-20KHz in a box 7.5x22.5x7.5. I can't imagine why DCM choose the CX Center design (non-acoustic lens) when they could have just used the acoustic lens drivers as they did with the SurroundScape Center; product differentiation I guess.

I emailed with Steve about the SurroundScapes and how they fit in the TimeWindow family a few years ago and I will have to dig them up and post for historical purposes.

Has anyone had a chance to compare the TimeWindow (or TimeFrame for that matter) with any of the Ohm Walsh speakers? I would love to know what Steve has to say comparing the two. I am so tempted to get a pair of Walsh's to compare to see if the Walsh's are really superior or just different.
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post #75 of 1667 Old 12-24-2006, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToofastGMJ View Post

Thanks for the reply guys! I see there is a set of TW's on E-bay right now but the listing doesn't state which model they are. Also I was wondering what kind of problems or sound degration they may have due to their age? The listing states 1979. Cheers All

If it says 1979, their most likely TW1's or 1A's. The Threes did not come out until the late 80's.

One of the few. DCM Time Window Seven owners.
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post #76 of 1667 Old 12-24-2006, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The Time Windows have the point in front because it creates two sound fields. They are mirror pairs with a dedicated left and right speaker.

The inner face creates a direct sound field to the main listening area. The outer face creates a diffused sound field that bounces off walls etc., to help create the amazingly wide total sound field. There is even another sound field created from the rear of each speaker. They are all time-aligned so the total sound field is accurate. Steve is a genius.

One of the few. DCM Time Window Seven owners.
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post #77 of 1667 Old 12-24-2006, 06:40 PM
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Yep, I must agree Steve is a genius when it comes to Loudspeakers. You should have seen some of the one off custom work that he built, absolutly beautiful work, and the sound was like no other, at least back in that time. I wonder what ever happened to some of those pieces? I remember Bob had a set of Timewindows matched to what I can remember was a set of matching subs that where "Huge", at least I think they where subs, but all I can remeber is Bob just about blowing the walls down at the condo he lived in! Hey Jamie, maybe you could ask Steve what that set-up was because all I know is it ROCKED!
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post #78 of 1667 Old 12-24-2006, 06:49 PM
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Quote:


The inner face creates a direct sound field to the main listening area. The outer face creates a diffused sound field that bounces off walls etc., to help create the amazingly wide total sound field. There is even another sound field created from the rear of each speaker. They are all time-aligned so the total sound field is accurate. Steve is a genius.

Almost like using a set of Tri-Phasers with your standard set of 3-way speakers. Except Steve did it back in the 80's! The Tri-Phasers attempted to do the same thing so when the sound reached your ears it was better time aligned for a more natural sound.
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post #79 of 1667 Old 12-26-2006, 06:49 PM
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I need some help.

I recently obtained a set of TW-3's and during shipping, UPS did their best to mangle them. Unfortunately, the tops took the most abuse and the edges got pretty banged up and chipped. Yes, they ARE solid oak but I think the speakers were being dropped, thrown, dragged, who knows. The packing job was lousy too. Oh well...at least they play and the foam covers are good.

I would like to replace the tops if anyone knows of replacements? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks!

Joe
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post #80 of 1667 Old 12-26-2006, 07:46 PM
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TwoFasrGMJ wrote:

Quote:


Thanks for the reply guys! I see there is a set of TW's on E-bay right now but the listing doesn't state which model they are. Also I was wondering what kind of problems or sound degration they may have due to their age? The listing states 1979. Cheers All

Out side of having a damaged or blown driver, The electrolytic caps should be replaced (fairly inexpensive if you can do some basic soldering). The surrounds on the woofers should be butyl rubber and still good. Hold out for the Three's if you can, they are worth the extra money.


JPw501 wrote:
Quote:


I would like to replace the tops if anyone knows of replacements? Any help will be appreciated

The only replacements that you would find would be used ones, although there was someone on Ebay that was selling replicas that he made. Even if they are cracked, you can repair them with "Gorilla Glue" and clamps. They could then be sanded down to bare wood and restain (golden oak) and finished with polyurethane. Any decent cabinet making shop could also do the repair or build new ones fairly easy. The Three's are worth investing some money into. If you have the end caps off, I would consider replacing the grill cloth at the same time.

Tracy RainH2o said:

Quote:


The Time Windows have the point in front because it creates two sound fields. They are mirror pairs with a dedicated left and right speaker.

The inner face creates a direct sound field to the main listening area. The outer face creates a diffused sound field that bounces off walls etc., to help create the amazingly wide total sound field. There is even another sound field created from the rear of each speaker. They are all time-aligned so the total sound field is accurate. Steve is a genius.

To add to what Tracy said, and this would apply to the Seven's and the Three's (if the three top pots are in the straight up position) because the outboard (ambient) side is 6db lower that the inboard (direct) side. According to Steve E., it acts as if the inboard plane is extended much further that it's normal face. Steve's design the TimeWindows to image well in poor room setups. For any common speaker to image well, you need to absorb (lower the reflection by 6db) or diffuse (delay the reflection by given number of nanoseconds) the first reflection point on the sidewalls. If you can't do either of these, the brain can not distinguish between the direct sound and the reflected sound and imaging suffers. If I had to guess on what Steve did, he lower the ambient side by 6bd, so for untreated walls, the first order reflection would already be lower to improve imaging. Just a theory.
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post #81 of 1667 Old 12-26-2006, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydneybird View Post

Can anyone tell me the difference between the TW1 and TW1a specification-wise and/or cosmetic? My TW shipping box just says Time Windows without any model number; originally purchased by me in 1983. My TW's have the two plastic strips in the back holding the foam in place forming a gap between the strips where you can see the paperboard cylinder back. I think I remember that TW1a's as having the foam meet in the back. Maybe the TW back is made from a paper cylinder concrete form?


Has anyone had a chance to compare the TimeWindow (or TimeFrame for that matter) with any of the Ohm Walsh speakers? I would love to know what Steve has to say comparing the two. I am so tempted to get a pair of Walsh's to compare to see if the Walsh's are really superior or just different.


From my memory, I recall the TW-1a's to be the first to have the solid oak tops and bottoms. I think the tops/bottoms of the original 1's had a high density partical board core with veneers. Both were the same physical size. I seem to remember the original 1's had a foam surround but the 1a's had a fabric "sock" that was prone to snagging a lot. There may have been an overlap period though as I also have a 1a with foam. I'm going from memory from the early 80's and I'm sure there are some out there with more definitive information.

Back in the day, I managed a stereo store in the Syracuse, NY area. We had Ohm F's as well as some B&W's and other high-end sweethearts. The B&W's were the ones with the funky feet and stepped back grill. They looked like little robots or something. LOL! I forget the model. Nothing like getting to play these honeys with Threshold and Bryston amps, Linn TT's and all sorts of goodies. They call that work. hahaha!

My favorite setup was the B&W's on the Bryston 3B. (Guess now I know why I ended up with a set of Wharfedales. LOL!) Anyway, everything was fine until a set of Time Windows came in. At $800 a set, they went rignt into the high-end room! I didn't actually pay them much attention until my coworker hooked them up and started messing with positions in the room and such. One day he yells out the sound room door for me to get in there right away! "Sit here and close your eyes" he says pointing to a chair.

The TW's were sitting out from the walls, about 4 feet from the back wall (which was floor to ceiling drapery) and about the same from the side walls. They were spaced about 8 feet apart. Well, I don't remember what he put on the TT but what I do remember is about falling off that chair when this amazing soundstage was opened up in front of me!

It was if the musicians had suddenly stepped into the room and taken up positions all around me! I could clearly hear where they were positioned and pick up subtle things they were doing: The skritch of fingers sliding on strings over there, the singers breaths in front of me, the drummer's kit behind and so on. It was like hearing a recording all over again! I caught myself turning my head towards the sounds!

Then we started to switch things around and the TW's became our "reference" speakers. Quite frankly, there was NOTHING in that room that would produce the sound and especially the imaging the TW's would. It was actually a little disheartening to find that all these very high priced speakers weren't cutting it! Even my beloved B&W's sounded like boxes with speakers in them. When you were in the sweet spot of the TW's they would disappear.

One day a little gray box came in from headquarters. Adcom GFA-1 it said. This little box was going to produce 200 watts a channel???? Yeah, right Well, this thing made the TW's even better! The Ohms would suck up every watt but still, they didn't compare. The little amp seemed to just push the TW's to an even higher plateau!

Again, this is all from long ago memory. But I still remember clearly though how amazed and impressed I was by the TW's! I didn't hear anything like them until I heard a set of Polk's in the mid 80's. These were the ones with the interconnection between the speakers. In my mind though, it was an electronic trick. The TW's did it without fancy wiring and cost half as much.

So now, I have a set of 1a's and 3's. I have an Adcom 555ll amp and am enjoying the sound I fell in love with years ago. Yeah, some nostalgia for you all, but still, the TW's never fail to impress. Even my kids are in awe at what these 20+ year old speakers can do.

Synopsis: Skip the Ohms. You'll have to replace the crappy foam surrounds on their woofers anyway. LOL!


Joe
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post #82 of 1667 Old 12-27-2006, 12:28 AM
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Thanks, Joe, for taking the time to post. I enjoyed the read. That is a good enough testimonial for me to not pluck down $900 for a used pair of Ohm 4's, or $2200 that the factory quoted for a pair of upgraded used Ohm 4's, just to be able to find out that I already have something very special with my TW1's and SurroundScapes. I can't help but think that my SurroundScapes are TW3's in disguise, but with two rear tweeters and some electronic trickery for the ambient sides.

If anyone has any inside info regarding the SurroundScapes (SS), I would like to know. I have a copy of the owner's manual, but it just doesn't explain everything. I pulled them out of storage this weekend and just hooked up the front side of each tower. If you don't know already, each tower of the SS's has a pair of connectors for the front (main, inner drivers) and a pair of connectors for the rear (outer drivers) which you are supposed to connect to the side or rear surround output of an AVR. Having only connected using the front connectors, I expected to hear no sound out of the rear sides, but I did! It may even be the 6db lower output for the ambient (outer) drivers talked about for the TW3's. (In writing this I just thought that maybe the rear drivers are just acting like passive radiators for the fronts. That would account for the fact that the rear side has very little treble frequencies. I'll have to look for a baffle to see if they are acoustically separated.) Whereas, my TW1's seem to have the same output level for the inner and outer drivers.

There is supposed to be a stereo mode where the front and rear drivers output the same frequency response (35-20kHz) and a surround mode where the rears have a modified frequency response (80-20kHz). The original instructions did not say what to do to put them in one mode or another. Since there is no switch on the speakers, maybe it has something to do with setting the AVR (AV receiver), or the PrestiDigital cross-overs are smart enough to do their own switching. I'm a little confused because if the rear drivers are receiving a signal when only the front connecters are used, how does it block the front signal to the rear drivers when the rear connectors are used? Wouldn't it cause a short or something if two signals come into the drivers?

One issue, though, is that I have two "left" SS's, having purchased the leftover stock from Stereo Direct some time ago. My thought is that since the drivers are the same for the front and rear channels, I could just open the cabinets and switch some wires on one to create a right tower. I would assume this would be the same if you had two left TW3 or TW7's. Do you agree that it would be a simple matter of swapping the leads of the respective drivers (inner woofer to outer woofer, and visa versa)?

Thanks for the advice.
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post #83 of 1667 Old 12-27-2006, 04:21 AM
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You're Welcome Sydney. It was enjoyable writing for me! If it wasn't for the internet and the magic of eBay, it would still be only a long ago memory.

My understanding is that one shouldn't mess with the drivers in ANY of the TW products as they've been factory "tuned" based on efficiency, or whatever. I know there are others lurking here that have a lot more info on these speakers than I. I hope they chime in!

Joe
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post #84 of 1667 Old 12-27-2006, 10:08 AM
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sydneybird wrote:

Quote:


As others wanted a sonic match as a center for the TW7, maybe choosing the CX-17, how about the SurroundScape Center? It has a 6in woofer and ¾ hard dome tweeter acoustic lens (the CX-17 and 27 having a 6.5in woofer), 92 db, 50-20KHz in a box 7.5x22.5x7.5. I can't imagine why DCM choose the CX Center design (non-acoustic lens) when they could have just used the acoustic lens drivers as they did with the SurroundScape Center; product differentiation I guess.

The SurroundScape Center does have the time delay circuit in it's crossover that the CX17 lacks, but it does not go as low as the CX17 which is a transmission line and ported. The SurroundScape Center is also harder to come by.

Quote:


If anyone has any inside info regarding the SurroundScapes (SS), I would like to know

Here's a link that may interest you. It's a review of the SurroundScape System.
http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/dcm.html
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post #85 of 1667 Old 12-27-2006, 12:07 PM
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Thanks Jamie, for finding that great link for me. You are correct about the SS center not being ported, and I understand that the center speaker should be a full-range speaker now that we have Dolby Digital et al. I don't have a CX-17, but the bass coming out of the CX-27 is beyond belief.
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post #86 of 1667 Old 12-27-2006, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydneybird View Post

One issue, though, is that I have two "left" SS's, having purchased the leftover stock from Stereo Direct some time ago. My thought is that since the drivers are the same for the front and rear channels, I could just open the cabinets and switch some wires on one to create a right tower. I would assume this would be the same if you had two left TW3 or TW7's. Do you agree that it would be a simple matter of swapping the leads of the respective drivers (inner woofer to outer woofer, and visa versa)?

Thanks for the advice.

True, each speaker was "tuned" at the factory but it is in the crossover rather than the driver itself. I would try to trace the wiring from the crossover to each driver. If you can determine which wire goes to each driver, swap the two sides on one speaker. This will certainly get you closer than having two left channel speakers.

Maybe Jamie has access to a schematic. Otherwise just unplug one wire at a time and make note of which driver isn't working.

One of the few. DCM Time Window Seven owners.
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post #87 of 1667 Old 12-27-2006, 06:31 PM
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sydneybird wrote;

Quote:
You are correct about the SS center not being ported, and I understand that the center speaker should be a full-range speaker now that we have Dolby Digital et al. I don't have a CX-17, but the bass coming out of the CX-27 is beyond belief.

Don't worry about the full-range issue. IMHO, the time alignment advantage of the SS center outweighs the bass extension of the CX17 when you figure in base management that is available in modern pre/pros or receivers. Stay with what you have. I, on the other hand, am a constant tweeker and is lucky enough to get help from Steve E. from time to time (hence the TW7 center project). I recently pick up the 9" Vifa woofer the TW7 uses and would like to build a new stand for the TW7 center that would incorporate the woofer and additional crossover circuitry for it. This would definitely require Steve's input to do it right. He really is.... (use any superlatives that you like). When sound becomes "holosonic" you know someone did their homework. Thank you again, Mr. Eberbach!

Tracy, you are correct in stating that adjustment were made in the crossovers for variants in components, but some of the drivers were match to a specific tolerance.
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post #88 of 1667 Old 12-27-2006, 07:12 PM
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Hey Jamie, for kicks next time you see Steve ask him what kind of set Bob Waterstripe had? I would love to know. He used a set of TW's along with 2 other speakers(twice the size of the TW's)! and had them all hooked up at once. I am guessing the other "large" ones where subs. All I know is it was one hell of a set-up!!
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post #89 of 1667 Old 12-27-2006, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy RainH2o View Post

If you can determine which wire goes to each driver, swap the two sides on one speaker. This will certainly get you closer than having two left channel speakers. Otherwise just unplug one wire at a time and make note of which driver isn't working.

Tracy, thanks for confirming this for me. I'm going to give it a try.

Another modification I was trying to do, but Steve said would not work a few years back, was to take one powered SurroundScape and try using it as the left and right rear surround speaker, by connecting the left rear and right rear to the respective front and rear connectors. Since the cross-overs are different for each side, that of course would not work. I thought about trying to duplicate the front cross-over and replace the rear with the duplicate, but after reading here how complex the cross-overs are in the TW, and Steve said that test equipment would be needed to fine tune it and that he certainly would not want to do it, this appears to be impossible. I know, I'm sounding kinda pathetic about moding these things, but I am just trying to make the best of some leftover TW and SS scraps picked up from Stereo Direct a few years back.

Does anyone know if Stereo Direct will ever get any old stock DCM components to sell or is DCM completely cleaned out? There was a big sales push a few years back and I got four vifa M22WR-09 9 inch woofers that may be the ones used in the TW 7's. If these are indeed for the TW7's, and a true devotee is in dire need of one, I may be able to contribute if I can convince myself that I will not build a DIY speaker out of them.
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post #90 of 1667 Old 12-28-2006, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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DCM had a few drivers left. You may want to give them a call.

One of the few. DCM Time Window Seven owners.
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