Whatever happened to DCM's Steve Eberbach? - Page 59 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1741 of 1748 Old 06-08-2015, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imstillatwork View Post
I just happened across a pair of TF-2000's serial # 422 and 423 I think. Anyways. Dirt cheap on Facebook. Picked them up and plugged them in to a HK AVR254, and later a Onkyo somthingrather.

They are a bit beat up, the socks was torn several places, faded, ripped and full of dog hair, so I cut it off to check the drivers. They look great! dusty, but good surrounds and all in tact. On lower woofer dust cover was dented in a bit, but seemed ok. All drivers moved freely if gently pressed.

Plugged them in to give them a test...

At low volumes they seemed to have phenomenal staging. Really decent clarity too. I don't know, they sounded big and expensive, right?
As the volume comes up though, the bass just never comes on. No bass. The mids were pushing harder than the woofers. The woofers were ALL functioning, but the output is terribly low.
At high volumes the mids and highs are just absolutely overwhelming. Oh My. Clear, Loud, but no bass still. *Some bass* just not anything CLOSE to what I would expect form this speaker.
My little 5.5" zaphs ZA5's thump harder than these.

Should I just try rebuilding the TF2000 crossovers first before I worry about anything else? The caps have got to be dried up at this age, right?

Aesthetically they aren't in great shape, but the drivers themselves looks fine - I'd like advice before dropping money into these.

If anyone wants pictures, measurements, etc, let me know - I'll be popping the rear covers off in a few weeks when I have some time to get to it.

thanks!
A few possibilities I can think of here;
first, you could be on the right track; something could be going on with the crossover or the like. I would definately check that even though crossover tend to affect bass much less than mid or treble as far as overall perceived output.
Second; check phase, check phase, check phase. Not only on your speaker wires but verify your amp/ receiver outputs for phase as well as internal wiring in the speaker cabinet. this effect bass moreso than percieved output from mids/ tweets.
third. the bass output from these speakers is usually deep and clean but compared to other designs and styles it has little output for bass heads. i went though this myself when i first started listening to vintage DCMs. On tracks that were not bass heavy they always sounded great, but when I was in a bass heavy mood, they would never satisfy. That's just the way it is because of their design. My ears and listening tate developed over time and though i still like more than these speakers can produce at times, i have developed and learned to hear the other things I was missing in the music when i was so focused on the bass.

I love vintage DCM and have an extensive collection. the TF-2000 is not one that i have and would love to own. Not trying to talk you out of them at all. check them out thoroughly and do your best to find out what's going on. You will probably end up loving them , even if it takes a little time. BUT, if you don't and want to get rid of them Please let me know. I would gladly pay you a fair price for them. definatley more than dirt cheap that you got them for.

DCM: TW1, TW3, QED, QED1a, TFV8.0, TF1000, (3pr) TF600, Time Piece, (3pr) CX27, (3+pr) CX17, (3pr) CX07, CX Center.
Polk: RTA12, SDA1C, SDA 2A, SDA SRS, SDA SRS 1.2TL, 5Jr., Monitor 5, Atrium (2pr).
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post #1742 of 1748 Old 06-08-2015, 09:42 AM
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Thanks, great tips. I checked and double checked the speaker leads. Then checked again when we tried a different receiver.
Honestly I only played them for about 15-20 minutes. I REALLY want to enjoy these, especially hearing how rare they are, and how much the tf1000 owners rave about theirs. My math says the tf2000's have to be AT LEAST twice as good as the 1000's Bonus points for naming a product using '2000' before the year 2000, you just can't argue that kind or marketing.

I don't think my expectations are too high for the performance of the low end. Like I said, I currently listen to Zaph Za5.3 MTM's with 5.5" drivers without a sub, and they go plenty low for casual listening (and plenty loud too!)

I'll post back when I get more time with them at my house - they are still at a friends house where I initially tested them out. I've got a bit more power then his setup, but still only an HK avr3600. I'd really like to pop the rear panel off and see what sort of shenanigans are going on inside.

I'm starting to see how lucky of a find these were, thanks for looking/helping.

-kevin
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post #1743 of 1748 Old 06-08-2015, 11:15 AM
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Regarding left & right placement, should these be drivers on the inside edge, or drivers on the outside edge?
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post #1744 of 1748 Old 06-08-2015, 07:33 PM
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More infoon my site if anyone follows this thread still!
http://lot-o-nothin.com/audio/dcm-ti...-tf2000-part-1

Now even more photo-y.


Last edited by imstillatwork; 06-11-2015 at 09:00 AM.
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post #1745 of 1748 Old 06-11-2015, 10:12 AM
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Is this the correct DCM badge for TF2000s? It seems so small...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-DCM-...item51d0fdfa89
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post #1746 of 1748 Old 06-21-2015, 07:53 AM
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Hey guys,

I am in the home stretch of building my theater room, centered around the TW7's!
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post #1747 of 1748 Old 08-18-2015, 12:15 PM
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I'm rebuilding a pair of TF-700s (recent purchase)

clearly, my crossovers have been mucked around with, and I'm trying to get them back into correct factory configuration

could not find a schematic for the TF-700, only for TF-1000... apparently, the only difference between TF-700 and TF-1000 crossovers is that resistor RA is 47 ohms in the TF-700 (vs. 100 ohm)

please note I believe I have a pair of *first generation* TF-700s because:
- terminal cup is small round 3" diameter (not large rectangular)
- crossover is crudely hand-made on a piece of scrap wood with messy point-to-point wiring (not nice and neat on a custom PCB board)

my understanding is that the first and later generations of TF-700 used the exact same drivers and crossover values, so should otherwise function and sound the same(???)

QUESTIONS:

Q1: does anyone have an actual TF-700 schematic?... do they even exist?
Q2: is it true that TF-700 and TF-1000 crossovers are the exact same (except for resistor RA)?
Q3: TF-1000 schematic shows presence of a resistor R1 (15 ohm, 2W, 10%), but THIS PART IS MISSING FROM BOTH MY CROSSOVERS!!!... can anyone confirm that R1 is supposed to be there based on experience with your TF-700s?... and if so, is your R1 15 ohms? (any pics greatly appreciated, especially showing R1's location)
Q4: is there a chance that first generation TF-700s did not have an R1?

any help greatly appreciated, thank you!


UPDATE:

I've been searching the web for photos of unmolested TF-700 crossovers... so far, I've turned up *3* different types:

1. handmade tangled mess on a piece of wood (like mine, probably first generation)... it's hard to tell if resistor R1 is present, but so far I don't see any
2. sleeker PCB style, with R1 present and 15 ohm value (sitting right beside C1)
3. sleeker PCB style, with R1 present and 47 ohm value (sitting right beside C1)

now I'm really confused... seeing as the TF-700s all have the same drivers, shouldn't the crossovers be the same?... perhaps I should add in R1 to bring mine up to date with the later versions?... if so, what's best value for R1: 15 or 47 ohms?

ATTACHED photos show the schematic for TF-1000, plus my crossover in its current *altered* state
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Last edited by ssouci; 08-18-2015 at 04:48 PM.
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post #1748 of 1748 Old 08-29-2015, 05:38 PM
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Thought these may be interest here as there are a number of DCM owners. The speakers were made by Steve E. before DCM was a going concern. The cabinet they are sitting on are 8' wide to give some sense of their size. They are wedge shaped cabinets made to sit in a corner. In an email from Steve E. (below) he describes the "Fans", which I believe these are. This pair uses 4 Philips 6 1/2" drivers (Octagonal frame) and 4 Philips tweets per cabinet. I got them after they had been re-capped and cleaned up nicely. When I got them a couple of the drivers had magnets that had shifted, I think one cabinet got bumped a bit in a couple of moves before I got them. I was able to repair both of the drivers, no more voice coil rub and they sound perfect.

The cabinets are really big, 4 foot across at the widest point, about 22" deep from the front of the curve to the back, 16" high. Needless to say, they sound as big as they are. Very clean, a live jazz recording puts you in the second row. I am running them with a Carver m200t, and are also running a pair of TimeWindows, with the same octagonal Philips driver and tweets (My serial's are 650 and 674) with another amp. So, adding up all of the drivers, that's 12 -6 1 /2" and 12 tweets. Needless to say, I'm in DCM heaven.

Here is what Steve had to say about them:


The "strange" speakers are early DCM time windows made before time windows were even named. These are floor standing versions of monitors (to work with Crown DC-100 amplifiers) derived from larger "fan" shaped monitors built at my house and at Fanfare here in Ann Arbor (PA company doing professional sound reinforcement for rock concerts) for the purpose of providing sound track for TV show called Don Kirchner's "Rock Concert" broadcast with simulcast stereo sound tracks ( FM and Cable TV) Saturday nights in early 70's on old RCA color TV projector at my house. The color TV came thru U of M Property Disposition from the Medical School where it had been used for televising surgery O.R. to classroom. I was able to restore it to operation for very low cost making such entertainment available before we "kids" could usually afford it. My house was packed every Saturday night. In those days Fanfare was doing PA sound for Alice Cooper on tour. Alice Cooper's roots, BTW were in good ol' Detroit Michigan.

These speakers were not sold in stores, only by direct order to local "friends". This was during the formative years before we began to establish a dealer network. The early pre-DCM monitors used up to eight Phillips 6 1/2 inch woofers and eight Phillips tweeters and went into studios and homes of various people interested in and working in audio, radio, cable TV, and music concerts here in Michigan and on tour. A couple of these stacked on either side of a 100 inch TV screen with a couple of strapped Crowns sounded pretty good, and loud, and live in a living room sized venue.
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Last edited by gib48189; 08-29-2015 at 05:41 PM.
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