Whatever happened to DCM's Steve Eberbach? - Page 60 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #1771 of 1787 Old 08-02-2016, 02:50 AM
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Does anyone here know what the correct replacement tweeter is for the TFV6.0?
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post #1772 of 1787 Old 08-23-2016, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all, it's been a while since I visited this thread.

For those of you who have recapped your crossovers, what did you use and did you only replace the electrolytics?

I seem to remember Jamie recommending ERSE brand polypropylene caps. I think it was these, but not sure.
http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PulseX
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post #1773 of 1787 Old 08-27-2016, 12:00 PM
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Just finished putting the sock on the "R" TF-700. What a pain. I could have used an extra set of hands, but somehow managed. Later today or perhaps tomorrow I'll do the left speaker & sock.



Under the black sheet* is a pair of TF-1000 cabinets. I need to buy some resistors for the crossovers before I can go any further with that project.

* Yes, when a pair of speakers is underneath a black sheet they are Top Secret.
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post #1774 of 1787 Old 08-27-2016, 12:18 PM
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Here's what they looked like during the testing period before the socks.





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post #1775 of 1787 Old 09-06-2016, 01:35 PM
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Hay Tracy, Good to hear from you again. How are your TW7's?

I was gone for a few years and came back today to talk caps and I see your interest in the topic. I'm ready to order new caps for my TF2000's (to replace the 47, 100 and 200 uF electrolytics) and found myself in a debate with myself between Mundorf MLytic E-Cap AC's, ERSE 6% D.F., or parts express brand for the 100 and 200 uF electrolytics, and Dayton, Jantzen or ERSE PulseX polypropylene's for the 47 uF. Other TF2000 owners used the Mudorf's and an electrolytic 47 with a 1uF poly passover cap. Another was thinking about all ERSE's. For a 50 dollar investment for both speakers, I'm leaning toward all ERSE's, only because the others don't really provide much on their performance specs. Mundorf has great marketing speek about Mlytic (holographic blah, blah), but don't give a D.F. number. At least ERSE gives you a choice of D.F. numbers for what that is worth, which I have no clue. I'm getting a "holographic" effect with the stock electrolytics that are probably worn out, so I just don't know. It is likely that I am over-thinking this. I hear that caps are way down in the food chain sonically.

After re-watching Steve Eberbach's youtube video from SMWTMS, he warns about being time to replace the electrolytic caps, particularity on the tweeter to protect it from "leakage" and non-linear effects. So, I'm just doing the electrolytics. Let us know what you think.
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post #1776 of 1787 Old 09-06-2016, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydneybird View Post
Hay Tracy, Good to hear from you again. How are your TW7's?

I was gone for a few years and came back today to talk caps and I see your interest in the topic.
After re-watching Steve Eberbach's youtube video from SMWTMS, he warns about being time to replace the electrolytic caps, particularity on the tweeter to protect it from "leakage" and non-linear effects. So, I'm just doing the electrolytics. Let us know what you think.
I'm not as WOWed by them as I once was. They seem to be working properly, but have lost much of the open and detailed soundfield that I loved. I have gone through some equipment changes, mainly preamps, and had to get my power amp repaired, so that may be part of the problem. I have found that Audyssey tends to suck the life out of music, so I thinking of buying a older two-channel preamp solely for music. I'm thinking something like an Acdom or Proceed.

However after sending off my amp for repair, which was for failed capacitors, I started thinking about replacing them in my crossovers.

I saw a video with Steve, might be the same one you watched, where he mentions replacing the electrolytic capacitors. I also talked with the guy who's doing my amp repair. He suggested replacing them with a Panasonic Long Life High Temp versions - Series FR for the larger ones, and series EB for the smaller ones, or the Erse would be a great option. He says the Mylar film caps are most likely fine, unless they are discolored.

I'm going to pull a crossover and see about ordering replacements for the electrolytic caps, for sure.

I have the itch for new speakers, but thought I would try recapping first. Thanks for the reply.
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post #1777 of 1787 Old 09-06-2016, 11:28 PM
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Missing Fluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Hauser View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by jomoco

The fiber around/behind the drivers would help in breaking up sound wave from the back of the drivers from bouncing back to the cone.
Hi Jamie, I hope you are still enjoying your TW7s! I've been gone for a few years and reacquainting myself with this thread. I got to 2009, from the beginning, and read your post about fill. Can you take a look at my TF2000? I'm presently recapping the electrolytics, or at least ready to buy some, so I have the backs off. Trying to choose which brand (PE, Mundorf or ERSE) for the 47, 100 and 200 uF caps, probably settling on ERSE E-Caps and a Pulse-X poly for the 47uF which is on the tweeter circuit. Anyway, attached is a photo of the naked back side of the TF2000's where you see one "fully stuffed" and the other with what appears to be missing fluff behind the drivers. Your 2009 post suggests to add more fluff to the backs of the drivers to reduce reflection off of the flat back. Is that what I should do or it is "tuned" purposely this way? Thanks
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post #1778 of 1787 Old 09-07-2016, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy RainH2o View Post
Hi all, it's been a while since I visited this thread.

For those of you who have recapped your crossovers, what did you use and did you only replace the electrolytics?

I seem to remember Jamie recommending ERSE brand polypropylene caps. I think it was these, but not sure.
http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PulseX
Hey Tracy

No, it were these:

http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/No...lectrolytic6DF

Check your private messages, I sent you some links to check.
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post #1779 of 1787 Old 09-07-2016, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydneybird View Post
Hi Jamie, I hope you are still enjoying your TW7s! I've been gone for a few years and reacquainting myself with this thread. I got to 2009, from the beginning, and read your post about fill. Can you take a look at my TF2000? I'm presently recapping the electrolytics, or at least ready to buy some, so I have the backs off. Trying to choose which brand (PE, Mundorf or ERSE) for the 47, 100 and 200 uF caps, probably settling on ERSE E-Caps and a Pulse-X poly for the 47uF which is on the tweeter circuit. Anyway, attached is a photo of the naked back side of the TF2000's where you see one "fully stuffed" and the other with what appears to be missing fluff behind the drivers. Your 2009 post suggests to add more fluff to the backs of the drivers to reduce reflection off of the flat back. Is that what I should do or it is "tuned" purposely this way? Thanks

I wouldn’t add more polyester fiber stuffing normally, but from what I can make out from your photo, the fill in the two cabinets don’t look the same. Is that right?
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post #1780 of 1787 Old 09-07-2016, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_adams View Post
Replace them all. The NP electrolytics are probably over twenty-five years old and are
long past their useful life. The Orange Mylar caps need to go, too. They are more suited
to their intended use as pulse suppression caps. Resist the urge to 'go cheap' on the
replacement caps by buying Dayton caps and purchase Solen, Audyn, or Jantzen X-series
metalized Polypropylene caps. Solen is preferred and if you do some shopping, you can find
them to be the best value. Replacing the caps will make a huge difference in the sound
quality.

Replace the sandcast resistors with some Mundorf metal film resistors. They are only
about $2.50 a piece over at Madisound. You will be surprised at the difference they make.

You should also consider replacing the coils. The large square ones are hand-wound on the
plastic core. The windings are loose and not evenly laid down around the core. Because the
values of the coils were originally based on their DC resistance in an attempt to reduce
the parts count, the values measured with the Aluminum core in place are not the values of
the coils themselves. You will have to select a coil that is slightly higher in value and
then 'tune it down' using Aluminum washers in the center of the coil. You will have to also
insert some resistors in series with the replacement coils to maintain the Q of the filter
and the overall system impedance. They are best replaced with some Jantzen air core coils.

If you elect to replace the caps, resistors, and coils; you should buy more than you need
and carefully match the values of the components. Doing so will ensure that the frequency
response and timbre of both speakers are as close as you can get them to each other.
If you haven't already invested in a quality LCR meter and DVM, now is the time.
I respectfully disagree.

The only caps you really need to replace are the electrolytic.

Leave the resistors, there fine.

I would never consider replacing the inductors in any of Steve’s designs.
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post #1781 of 1787 Old 09-07-2016, 03:45 PM
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Missing Fill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Hauser View Post
I wouldn’t add more polyester fiber stuffing normally, but from what I can make out from your photo, the fill in the two cabinets don’t look the same. Is that right?
Yes, the one on the right seems to be missing the fill behind the drivers, but they are the same everywhere else, like they forgot about that particular wad.

Thanks for confirming the caps! They are in my shopping cart. My last cap question before I order, if you please. Should I spend 14 times more (.84 cents versus 12 dollars) for the PulseX poly for the 47uF that is in the tweeter circuit? I think your post implies to stick with the electrolytics for these values or you would have presented the option. Thanks!
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post #1782 of 1787 Old 09-08-2016, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Hauser View Post
Hey Tracy

No, it were these:

http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/No...lectrolytic6DF

Check your private messages, I sent you some links to check.
Hi Jamie. Message received, thanks yet again.

I ordered the caps this morning. I'll post back when I get them installed.
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post #1783 of 1787 Old 09-08-2016, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCM_Fan View Post
Does anyone have a schematic for the Time Frame TF-275 crossover? I just picked up a pair and the tweeter in one appears to be blown. I haven't removed the socks yet, but pulled the crossovers to measure the resistance at the leads and noticed the driver leads were connected in a different order for the two speakers. So, I suspect someone else has been playing around in there. Not sure if they hooked up the leads incorrectly before, or after blowing the tweeter.

In any case, a schematic for the TF-275 would help me sort this out. I'll probably order a pair of the Goldwood replacement tweeters from Parts Express that are recommended as replacements for the TF-600 speakers as I believe the TF-275s use the same tweeters as the TF-600s.

Anyone know if the TF-275s also use the same midbass drivers, with the rubber surrounds, as the TF-600s? I suppose I'll find out when I pull down the sock on the one with the bad tweeter. These appear to be in pretty good condition (other than the blown tweeter) and I'd really like to avoid pulling the sock on the good speaker, dealing with the headliner foam and wrestling the midbass drivers out of the cabinet. In an ideal world, I'd just pull down the sock on the one with the bad tweeter, replace the tweeter, pull the sock back up, glue it in place, replace the top cap and be ready to go. I'll probably do a recap as well, as it looks easy (just two 3.3uF NP electrolytics and one 0.47uK film cap per crossover).
Hello MCM_Fan,

To start with, from what you posted, the tweeter you have is the same that is used in the TF-600 along with the CX series. The “Goldwood replacement tweeters from Parts Express that are recommended as replacements for the TF-600 speakers” are not what I would use. The only suitable replacements (if you want to have the speakers sound as they were intended) are used ones off eBay. Those tweeters were made specifically for DCM with a “thinner” ferrofliud and the damping is dealt with in the crossover. Anything else will alter the sound.
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post #1784 of 1787 Old 09-08-2016, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydneybird View Post
Yes, the one on the right seems to be missing the fill behind the drivers, but they are the same everywhere else, like they forgot about that particular wad.

Thanks for confirming the caps! They are in my shopping cart. My last cap question before I order, if you please. Should I spend 14 times more (.84 cents versus 12 dollars) for the PulseX poly for the 47uF that is in the tweeter circuit? I think your post implies to stick with the electrolytics for these values or you would have presented the option. Thanks!
I’m guessing, based on its value, that the 47uF electrolytic cap that is in the tweeter circuit should run in series with an inductor and then go to ground. Check and see, if that’s the case save your money and go with the electrolytic.

I did send Steve E. your photo of the back of the TF-2000 last night and just had an enjoyable “catch-up” conservation with him. He didn’t have a chance to see the photo but I did describe what your concerns were with the fill. He said you should have some fill behind the drivers and see if it just fell down. If it’s missing, replace it. It’s just polyester fiber stuffing available most places like JoAnn Fabrics. When he gets a chance he will look at the picture and let me know if he would suggest anything else.
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post #1785 of 1787 Old 09-09-2016, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Hauser View Post
I’m guessing, based on its value, that the 47uF electrolytic cap that is in the tweeter circuit should run in series with an inductor and then go to ground. Check and see, if that’s the case save your money and go with the electrolytic.

I did send Steve E. your photo of the back of the TF-2000 last night and just had an enjoyable “catch-up” conservation with him.
Jamie, thank you so much! It just thrills me to hear about Steve. We exchanged a few emails back in 2008(?) regarding my SurroundScapes and maybe even the TF2000's. I wonder if he put together his museum? Please thank him for me and for my continued musical enjoyment.

I admire your knowledge about the crossovers. You are absolutely correct that the 47 cap is in series with an inductor, a mini one, and then to ground. I'll save my $22 and buy new electrolytic caps for all of my DCM's. No fallen fluff, it is just missing. Maybe my wife made a new pillow and knew where to look. Off to the fabric store for more.
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post #1786 of 1787 Old 09-09-2016, 05:45 PM
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Well, I put my fully restored TimeWindow 3's for sale locally on CL today. It kind of pains me to do it, considering the amount of time and effort I put into them. I still think they are great speakers, but I kind of need the money for something else, and they did take a back seat to my JBL Studio 590's, but I listened to the TW3's for a bit last night, and while not quite as good, they hold their own pretty good against the much bigger 590's.

Somewhere in the back of my mind, I kind of hope no one buys them. I'm asking $450, but I don't think that's out of line for what I did to them (new caps in the crossover, a few new pots, 2 tweeters, new headliner material, new socks, sanded off the black paint and refinished the wood caps), but others may feel differently, and I'll just have to keep them.
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post #1787 of 1787 Old 09-11-2016, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I put my fully restored TimeWindow 3's for sale locally on CL today. It kind of pains me to do it, considering the amount of time and effort I put into them. I still think they are great speakers, but I kind of need the money for something else, and they did take a back seat to my JBL Studio 590's, but I listened to the TW3's for a bit last night, and while not quite as good, they hold their own pretty good against the much bigger 590's.

Somewhere in the back of my mind, I kind of hope no one buys them. I'm asking $450, but I don't think that's out of line for what I did to them (new caps in the crossover, a few new pots, 2 tweeters, new headliner material, new socks, sanded off the black paint and refinished the wood caps), but others may feel differently, and I'll just have to keep them.
Fully working and with good cosmetics, I think the price is fair.

The issue with any DCM speaker of its era is that DCM isn't super well-known. Many of those who have heard of DCM are only familiar with their later speaker lines. The Time Window and Time Frames are much better speakers, in my opinion.

I had thought about selling my Sevens, but I'll see how I feel after recapping the crossovers.
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