PSB Speakers Owners thread - Page 125 - AVS Forum
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post #3721 of 5637 Old 04-26-2012, 07:04 AM
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Paul, I haven't heard either but it would seem likely that a dealer who carries the Synchrony line would also have some Imagines in his shop as well so you could compare right there.

As far as a new replacement line coming soon........ I haven't heard anything. They are still winning awards........ lots of 'em!

He (or she) who dies with the most HT gear doesn't win anything. They're DEAD!
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post #3722 of 5637 Old 04-26-2012, 07:17 AM
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I have both the Synchrony One towers, and the Imagine B's, and really like both. I was lucky enough to have an audio dealer who allowed me to take their demo Synchrony One's home for several days and audition them in my listening room. When you are spending a significant amount of money for a speaker, a home evaluation is the way to go, if you can find a dealer that lets you do this.
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post #3723 of 5637 Old 04-26-2012, 08:28 AM
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Thanks guys - I was looking more for a comparison between the Synchrony 1Bs and the 2Bs than against the Imagines.

We have a great dealer here in Austin, but I don't want to take over advantage of them asking for too many home trials.

I am about half afraid I need to boost the budget, as these are replaing Maggie 1.7s, and those speakers are very hard to replace indeed. Better half wants smaller speakers, and prefers not to have any subs. I am being cheap and wondering if I can save $1000 with the Synchrony 2Bs.

The Imagine Bs are doing yeoman duty in the living room right now, and while they sound excellent, they don't have the heft to fill up our large area, nor do they have the precise and deep soundstage I really dig. Rather, they don't have that in the living room. They certainly do in the bedroom system, which is what they are matched with.

I am hoping the Syncrhony 1Bs or the Synchrony 2Bs will have better imaging than the Imagine Bs, as well as a little more bass volume.

-Paul
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post #3724 of 5637 Old 04-26-2012, 10:28 AM
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synchronys blow away the imagines. If you have the dough go with the one's. if it is an issue for you go with the two b's. If you want to explore this more listen yourself and choose. I have the synchrony two towers and two b bookshelfs and love it in a small room that needs smaller profle setup. Bigger room I would go with the ones personally.

yes they are coming out with new 10,000 dollar speakers I heard. Synchrony ones will no longer be the flagship. The synchrony two towers are being phased out..I heard.
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post #3725 of 5637 Old 04-26-2012, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Lotus00 View Post

synchronys blow away the imagines. If you have the dough go with the one's. if it is an issue for you go with the two b's. If you want to explore this more listen yourself and choose. I have the synchrony two towers and two b bookshelfs and love it in a small room that needs smaller profle setup. Bigger room I would go with the ones personally.

yes they are coming out with new 10,000 dollar speakers I heard. Synchrony ones will no longer be the flagship. The synchrony two towers are being phased out..I heard.

Thanks for the opinion. I obvously will listen for myself, as we have a great local dealer, but I am interested in other people's opinions.

The Synchrony line about to be upgraded or something makes sense, as the Two Bs and Twos are appearing discounted all over the place. The one's, so far, have not been discounted at all, so far as I have seen.

Between the 1B and 2B speakers, there is a $1000 difference right now, and while that won't break me, it ain't chump change either. I think the 1Bs will be just what we want, but if the 2Bs sound *almost* as good...

-Paul
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post #3726 of 5637 Old 04-26-2012, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by paul.raulerson View Post

Better half wants smaller speakers, and prefers not to have any subs.

Nothing wrong with smaller speakers, if they are configured with a good sub. Expecting a bookshelf speaker to deliver good bass is asking a lot, regardless of the price. Even with my capable Synchrony One towers, I have three sealed 15" subs, and don't send anything below 80 Hz to the One's.

You need to do some persuading. There are good subs that look good as well.
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post #3727 of 5637 Old 04-26-2012, 08:02 PM
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I put a wireless sub in a closet and cut a square hole and put a vent over it. it looks like an air vent and is professional

alright..I paid a pro to do it
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post #3728 of 5637 Old 04-28-2012, 07:46 PM
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Is anyone running the Imagine S Surrounds? Never hear much on them and I'm very close to pullin the trigger
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post #3729 of 5637 Old 04-29-2012, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

Is anyone running the Imagine S Surrounds? Never hear much on them and I'm very close to pullin the trigger

I have Image S5s. Those are really great for surrounds. I have somewhat limited space and regular speakers did not work really well. The left and right surrounds would split into left and right, i.e. surround field was not sounding as the whole. When I have installed S5s, it helped a lot.

Overall, I would not worry too much about SQ. Imagine S should have perfect match to your existing Imagine line speakers. They can be configured in any way you like.
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post #3730 of 5637 Old 04-29-2012, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dima333a View Post

I have Image S5s. Those are really great for surrounds. I have somewhat limited space and regular speakers did not work really well. The left and right surrounds would split into left and right, i.e. surround field was not sounding as the whole. When I have installed S5s, it helped a lot.

Overall, I would not worry too much about SQ. Imagine S should have perfect match to your existing Imagine line speakers. They can be configured in any way you like.

Thanks. I'm sure these will blend in with my current stuff but I was hoping someone had the Imagine S's cuz they can be wired in three different ways, wondered what people experience is with the differences...?
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post #3731 of 5637 Old 04-29-2012, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

Thanks. I'm sure these will blend in with my current stuff but I was hoping someone had the Imagine S's cuz they can be wired in three different ways, wondered what people experience is with the differences...?

Well... really... all the options of wiring depend on your set up. I believe you can wire them as
1. Bi-pole
2. Di-pole
3. Independently.

I am not sure what is the gain between di-pole and bi-pole. Some of the less expensive speakers do not give you such option, and you have to live with what ever way they are wired. Some are wired as di- and some are wired as bi-poles. My best guess that one or another way might be advantageous based on your room and location of surrounds. The best way it to try.

In the case of independent connection, you can wire 2 surrounds to act as side and back surrounds in 7.1 configuration.
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post #3732 of 5637 Old 04-29-2012, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post


Thanks. I'm sure these will blend in with my current stuff but I was hoping someone had the Imagine S's cuz they can be wired in three different ways, wondered what people experience is with the differences...?

Dipoles seem to be the way to,go. Read this interesting thread: https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries...round-speakers.

With the Imagine S, you get to select. With the Image S, you only get bi-pole. The Imagine series is a step up, of course. If you already have Imagine speakers, then the Imagine S would be the way to go, IMO.
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post #3733 of 5637 Old 04-30-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dima333a View Post

Well... really... all the options of wiring depend on your set up. I believe you can wire them as
1. Bi-pole
2. Di-pole
3. Independently.

I am not sure what is the gain between di-pole and bi-pole. Some of the less expensive speakers do not give you such option, and you have to live with what ever way they are wired. Some are wired as di- and some are wired as bi-poles. My best guess that one or another way might be advantageous based on your room and location of surrounds. The best way it to try.

In the case of independent connection, you can wire 2 surrounds to act as side and back surrounds in 7.1 configuration.

I'm familiar with the 3 setup options, and I also understand bi & di pole, it's the 3rd setup I'm curious about. Just wonder how it sounds having the side & back surround connection. I think this is an interesting setup & wonder why nobody else does this? PSB has trademarked/patented it so maybe nobody else can use it, doubt that though. Anyway, I just wondered if any PSB'ers here have tried with the option of having the side and back surround channels hooked to the Imagine S Surround. I like to listen to music in "enhanced 7 channel mode" and currently only have a 5.1 setup, want to replace the rears with the S's and basically have a 7.1 setup with only the 2 S's being 4 channels.
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post #3734 of 5637 Old 05-02-2012, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

I would guess that it took a bit to get the balance with the bass right then?

The Imagine and Synchrony towers with their rear ports and supplied bungs are supposedly for more easy tuning to a room.

And if your speakers are bran-new... give them some time to run in a little.


No the problems I had is with the highs and mids. And trying to get them just right.And I was just wondering if was because they are tower speakers or PSB are just extremely fussy with placement.I'm going to say it's PSB.
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post #3735 of 5637 Old 05-02-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by nothingspecial View Post

No the problems I had is with the highs and mids. And trying to get them just right.And I was just wondering if was because they are tower speakers or PSB are just extremely fussy with placement.I'm going to say it's PSB.

Towers are, in my experience at least, notoriously difficult and fussy about position. An inch forward or back, or a few degrees of toe in or out can make all the difference. The model makes a lot of difference too, the higher the model the less picky about position.

Monitors tend to disappear into the soundscape better.

I know it is a bit arguable here, but give 'em about 50 to 100 hours of breaking time before you judge them. Speakers are mechanical systems and though Paul Barton says his speakers sound great right out of the box - they sound a heck of a lot better a hundred hours or so later.

-Paul
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post #3736 of 5637 Old 05-03-2012, 05:50 AM
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I have just ordered my first 3.1 [budget $2500] setup including PSB Image T6, C5 and Outlaw LFM-1 Plus (on sale), Denon AVR-2112ci. I did a lot of research before pulling trigger but overlooked something crucial in the process. One day after ordering I hear back from PSB that the speakers will be fine with a 4-ohm receiver, the Denon is not, of course. So now I'm having buyers remorse about the receiver and looking for an alternative that won't break the bank. Am I right to be concerned? I have found the Onkyo TX-NR809 available at a cost I can justify. Would you make the switch?

Or can you offer recommendations for a receiver that will do the job for <= $700? I want hdmi1.4, ipod and internet connectivity, multi-zone/multi-source, airplay, ...

The local dealer was promoting Pioneer VSX-52/53 and Denon AVR2312/3312 with their PSB's which were out of my price range at the time (and still are I think).

Thanks for your thoughts
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post #3737 of 5637 Old 05-03-2012, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bbrowne View Post

I have just ordered my first 3.1 [budget $2500] setup including PSB Image T6, C5 and Outlaw LFM-1 Plus (on sale), Denon AVR-2112ci. I did a lot of research before pulling trigger but overlooked something crucial in the process. One day after ordering I hear back from PSB that the speakers will be fine with a 4-ohm receiver, the Denon is not, of course. So now I'm having buyers remorse about the receiver and looking for an alternative that won't break the bank. Am I right to be concerned? I have found the Onkyo TX-NR809 available at a cost I can justify. Would you make the switch?

Or can you offer recommendations for a receiver that will do the job for <= $700? I want hdmi1.4, ipod and internet connectivity, multi-zone/multi-source, airplay, ...

The local dealer was promoting Pioneer VSX-52/53 and Denon AVR2312/3312 with their PSB's which were out of my price range at the time (and still are I think).

Thanks for your thoughts

I bought an Onkyo TX-NR709 in February to go with my older T45/C40/B25 setup. I've been fiddling with it ever since trying to make it sound right. I pulled the trigger on a Denon AVR-2312 refurb (since it was the price that made me choose the Onkyo in the first place). There is no comparison for me. Most everything on the Denon is just "better". Menus are just more polished, features like network standby, hdmi passthrough, and ARC are better implemented, etc. On the Onkyo the receiver runs hot in standby mode when either network standby and/or hdmi passthrough are enabled. The Denon surprisingly runs slightly hotter when on despite Onkyo's reputation for making furnaces although neither receiver worries me for its operating heat output.

I will say that I did get the Onkyo to sound right while the Denon was in transit (of course). The Denon however sounds better out of the box (without Audyssey), but they sound very similar if not identical once calibrated. The Onkyo is very muddy without calibration.

The Onkyo does have more features like preouts and a multichannel in, but I don't need those (at least not yet, which is why I initially chose the Onkyo).

I'd be really surprised if the Denon can't handle the speakers. Just because they don't publish 4 ohm specs, doesn't mean it can't handle it.

I just got the Denon a couple days ago, but I think I'll have an Onkyo 709 for sale soon.

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post #3738 of 5637 Old 05-03-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrowne View Post




Or can you offer recommendations for a receiver that will do the job for <= $700? I want hdmi1.4, ipod and internet connectivity, multi-zone/multi-source, airplay, ...

The local dealer was promoting Pioneer VSX-52/53 and Denon AVR2312/3312 with their PSB's which were out of my price range at the time (and still are I think).

Thanks for your thoughts

Congratulations, I think you will really enjoy the new stuff. On the receiver, well, no, I can't think of a 4ohm stable receiver that has all that in your price range. However, there are ways to solve it if the receiver becomes an issue.

You can use the current receiver and connect the pre-outs to a set of Outlaw monoblocks or another high quality power amp. You can still use the receiver to drive the center channel and surrounds.

Here are a couple links to give you some ideas. The Outlaw and Khartago amplifiers are both very good indeed. There are tons of other choices, at least one of which is bound to fit within your budget, if not now, sometime in the future.

-Paul

Outlaw Model 2200 Monoblock ($350 but often on sale or discounted)

Obyssey Khartago Stereo Amp ($895)
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post #3739 of 5637 Old 05-03-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrowne View Post

I have just ordered my first 3.1 [budget $2500] setup including PSB Image T6, C5 and Outlaw LFM-1 Plus (on sale), Denon AVR-2112ci. I did a lot of research before pulling trigger but overlooked something crucial in the process. One day after ordering I hear back from PSB that the speakers will be fine with a 4-ohm receiver, the Denon is not, of course. So now I'm having buyers remorse about the receiver and looking for an alternative that won't break the bank. Am I right to be concerned? I have found the Onkyo TX-NR809 available at a cost I can justify. Would you make the switch?

Or can you offer recommendations for a receiver that will do the job for <= $700? I want hdmi1.4, ipod and internet connectivity, multi-zone/multi-source, airplay, ...

The local dealer was promoting Pioneer VSX-52/53 and Denon AVR2312/3312 with their PSB's which were out of my price range at the time (and still are I think).

Thanks for your thoughts

I'm no expert but I do know that every PSB dealer I've been to is running their PSB showroom speakers through regular 8ohm receivers. Matter of fact I made a point of asking about this issue at one retailer who was running T6's with a Yami, same as mine. I can actually choose to set my receiver to 8 or 4 ohm somewhere in the menu, I think even 6, I asked if he set the receiver to 4ohm and he kind of chuckled and said that he ran it at the default 8ohm and he has never had a problem, even at very loud levels. He said that Yamaha's are good that way and inicated that many mid to higher end AVR's are OK running 4ohm speakers, when you get into the lower powered units that are in the lower model ranges, then you'll have problems. I would set your stuff up and give it a listen and see, don't know if your AVR is low-mid or high end of the brand but give it a try before wasting $ on something you might not even need.
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post #3740 of 5637 Old 05-03-2012, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

I can actually choose to set my receiver to 8 or 4 ohm somewhere in the menu, I think even 6, I asked if he set the receiver to 4ohm and he kind of chuckled and said that he ran it at the default 8ohm and he has never had a problem,

Just leave the receiver on the 8 ohm setting no matter what speakers you have. All that happens when you set the receiver to 4 ohms is that it reduces amp power by about half to keep heat down so the AVRs can pass compliancy tests.

You will risk clipping the speakers by halving the already low power of a AVR.
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post #3741 of 5637 Old 05-04-2012, 07:48 AM
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Just leave the receiver on the 8 ohm setting no matter what speakers you have. All that happens when you set the receiver to 4 ohms is that it reduces amp power by about half to keep heat down so the AVRs can pass compliancy tests.

You will risk clipping the speakers by halving the already low power of a AVR.

Agreed, never changed mine but of course I'm runnin 8ohm speakers. I understand the only time you really should or could make the change to 4ohm is if your runnin seperates that are capable and made to run at 8, 6 or 4ohm. I know a guy that has Emotiva amps, I think 4 of them, and Syncrony's, 6 of them, and he has all the amps set to 4ohm, but we're talkin 200 watts per channel @ 8ohm & 300 watts @ 4ohm, REAL 200/300 watts and he's got stuff bi-wired and bi-amped and... the wiring is CRAZY! Sounds like a dream come true. 2 JL Audio subs as well. But like I said, I don't fully understand it all, I just read lots and talk to people who do know!
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post #3742 of 5637 Old 05-04-2012, 08:32 AM
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I am replacing my Onkyo 875 with the tx-nr 1009. I am running PSB Synch Ones as my mains. Would Bi-amping these speakers with this AV receiver make any reasonable difference.
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post #3743 of 5637 Old 05-04-2012, 09:01 AM
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I am replacing my Onkyo 875 with the tx-nr 1009. I am running PSB Synch Ones as my mains. Would Bi-amping these speakers with this AV receiver make any reasonable difference.

No. Passive biamping is (IMO) a waste of electricity and at worst can deprive the other channels since most (all?) AV receivers are limited by their single power supply. Almost all receivers can deliver more power in stereo mode, less in 5 channel mode, and even less in 7. I figure turn off the channels if you aren't really using them.

Another way to think of it: Since the speakers have crossovers and both amps are sending a full range signal, each speaker is just discarding "half" of the signal (the tweeter crossover is discarding the bottom "half" and the woofer crossover the top "half") from each amp anyway and you are basically back to one signal so you might as well only use 1 amp.

I've tried it on mine (Onkyo 709 and PSB T45s) for the heck of it, and it made no difference to my ears whatsoever. I left the bi-wires from one amp to both speakers inputs because it makes me feel better to "use" the copper instead of letting it sit in a box although it made no audible difference either.

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post #3744 of 5637 Old 05-05-2012, 05:14 AM
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Passive biamping is (IMO) a waste of electricity and at worst can deprive the other channels since most (all?) AV receivers are limited by their single power supply. Almost all receivers can deliver more power in stereo mode, less in 5 channel mode, and even less in 7. I figure turn off the channels if you aren't really using them.

I do not believe that bi-amping cuts your power in any way. The fact is, that in the absolute majority of receivers and amplifiers the output per channel is higher is stereo mode, and lower in 5- channel ( even lower in 7 channel mode). However, the reasons for such behaviour might not be explained well.

1. The power supply is not sufficient. i.e. all the power amplifiers draw power from the same transformer. As you increase number of active channels, they start to compete for power from the transformer and the output per channel drops because there is not enough juice for all the channels.

2. Not optimal loading of power supply. This is a little trickier to explain, but it is a factor.

In the case of bi-amp, you do not fully use the power of both channels, you just distribute the load between two channels. Thus, it should not be a problem. On the other hand, you gain very little too, since the main advantage of true bi-amp is getting rid off passive filters in the speakers.
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post #3745 of 5637 Old 05-07-2012, 04:49 PM
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Well I finally pulled the trigger on a pair of Imagine S Surrounds. Got a GREAT deal on EBay that I could not resist. Looked a few times and never found anything, Sat. night did a search and there they were. They should be here by the end of the week or early next. Will keep you posted. Next will be a pair of T2's. Anyone here have a pair of them to tell me about?
Ya bi-amping doesn't reduce power at all, would kind of defeat the purpose. I thought the crossovers completely changed when you hooked them up bi-amp.
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post #3746 of 5637 Old 05-08-2012, 07:53 PM
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I found a used pair of Image T6's for $800. I've been looking to upgrade my current Epos ELS3 bookshelf speakers, and these seemed to get great reviews everywhere. They would be used with a Peachtree Nova DAC/amp. Any thoughts on this combo? Should I jump on this?
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post #3747 of 5637 Old 05-08-2012, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bbrowne View Post

I have just ordered my first 3.1 [budget $2500] setup including PSB Image T6, C5 and Outlaw LFM-1 Plus (on sale), Denon AVR-2112ci. I did a lot of research before pulling trigger but overlooked something crucial in the process. One day after ordering I hear back from PSB that the speakers will be fine with a 4-ohm receiver, the Denon is not, of course. So now I'm having buyers remorse about the receiver and looking for an alternative that won't break the bank. Am I right to be concerned? I have found the Onkyo TX-NR809 available at a cost I can justify. Would you make the switch?

Or can you offer recommendations for a receiver that will do the job for <= $700? I want hdmi1.4, ipod and internet connectivity, multi-zone/multi-source, airplay, ...

The local dealer was promoting Pioneer VSX-52/53 and Denon AVR2312/3312 with their PSB's which were out of my price range at the time (and still are I think).

Thanks for your thoughts

Don't upgrade receiver just to have more power, buy separate power amp. Try this, @ just $399, there's nothing to loose.
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/...roducts/upa500
but ofcos you got to wait for it to be release

HT setup : Optoma HD20/Emotiva UMC-1/Emotiva UPA-5/Oppo BDP-80/Playstation 3/PSB image T6,C5,B15/Mirage Omni S10/DH Labs Q10/QED 79 strand SC/Nordost "Red Dawn" & "Blue Heaven"/Nordost "Blue Heaven" (sub)/Iego pc
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post #3748 of 5637 Old 05-09-2012, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bongteo View Post

Don't upgrade receiver just to have more power, buy separate power amp. Try this, @ just $399, there's nothing to loose.
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/...roducts/upa500
but ofcos you got to wait for it to be release

I wonder how loud those two fans are when running. Looks like a saweet deal for sure.

He (or she) who dies with the most HT gear doesn't win anything. They're DEAD!
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post #3749 of 5637 Old 05-09-2012, 06:52 PM
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Need to know whether to pull the trigger on this deal...I have a Peachtree Nova, and I'm looking to take a step up from my Epos ELS3 bookshelves. I found a pair of PSB Image T6's locally for a great price, and from what I can tell they're easy to drive. Can someone who is knowledgable in wattage, impedance, sensitivity, amplification, etc. tell me if this combo (Nova/T6 towers)would work well? Much appreciated, thanks!

http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/nova-a...-with-dac.html
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post #3750 of 5637 Old 05-09-2012, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rbf1138 View Post

Can someone who is knowledgable in wattage, impedance, sensitivity, amplification, etc. tell me if this combo (Nova/T6 towers)would work well?

This calculator is a nice easy one to use to get an idea of the watts you will need... http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/d...ct-pwr-req.htm
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